Crown

Carlos from Spain:

keithw:

Not sure if anyone ever posted this, but it seems like the Model 3 is quite a bit more "sports car" than was first thought. 
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2019/tesla-model-3-performance-track-mode-release-version-review/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaGZ04_HLac

Model 3: 1:21.49
Porsche Cayman GT4: 1:21.47
Porsche 718 Boxster S: 1:23.05

You have a lot to learn about what a sportscar is or means, you can't have more ofowhat you have zero of to begin with.  Instant electric torque to get around fast a short enough track so that it can do a lap before it overheats into limp mode has nothing to do with a sportscar, no matter the lap time. An Urus can probably lap faster than an Alta 4C in some tracks, doesn't make it more of a sportscar.

I suggest you try to sell and promote other qualities of the Models 3 than sportiness next time, you will have better luck in this crowd, this is a real sportscar enthusiast forum...

It does seem a bit odd to compare a Tesla Model 3 on track... 

...to a Porsche Cayman GT4 on track... 

...unless Tesla is planning to enter the Nurburgring 24-hour race? 

Exactly, there are sports cars that are slow and non sports cars that are fast. The Teslas are nowhere near “trackable” even though they can accelerate real fast, nor were they designed to be “trackable”.

Keith, be careful what you write, you are new here (well maybe you are , the account is new at least) and will get banned real fast especially if you disagree with some moderators. I have been here for 15 years and still gets zero respect from some of the mods, just because some have vested interests to protect one part of the automotive industry.

PS: I have been respectful of everyone here. Ban me if you want and let “guests” decide for themselves if it was fair or not. But the pace at which this place is loosing old members while attracting no one new is alarming.

keithw:

Not sure if anyone ever posted this, but it seems like the Model 3 is quite a bit more "sports car" than was first thought. 
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2019/tesla-model-3-performance-track-mode-release-version-review/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaGZ04_HLac

Model 3: 1:21.49
Porsche Cayman GT4: 1:21.47
Porsche 718 Boxster S: 1:23.05

 

Welcome to Rennteam 

Before comparing a Tesla with a sportcar: you should visit some trackdays, count the Tesla’s and report back here

--

997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 

SciFrog:

Keith, be careful what you write, you are new here (well maybe you are , the account is new at least) and will get banned real fast especially if you disagree with some moderators. I have been here for 15 years and still gets zero respect from some of the mods, just because some have vested interests to protect one part of the automotive industry.

Which moderators have banned someone here because they disagree with them? Which moderators here have a vested interest in protecting one part of the automotive interest? ... listen to yourself Scifrog, you are loosing it, you sound ridiculous and outright slander towards the staff. This is how you want to earn respect?

We have banned only one member in recent years and was because of his tone and repeated attacks to other members after many many warnings, and no one here has vested interests in the automotive industry, get real. Now quit trying to provoke the staff, to play victim, it is pitiful, and try to stick to the topic.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

keithw:

I have little interest in communicating with you Whoopsy because you show extreme biased based on seemingly uninformed opinions. You have not owned a Tesla as far as I can tell, yet you made the following blanket claim. Unless you owned a Tesla for a meaningful amount of time, you would have little to no real world long-term experience with AP to know how well or poorly it works in every day use.

Autopilot, from Tesla is NOT actually autopilot, it's just a gimmick for a more advanced version of cruise control, nothing more and nothing less. But it's a shit system, who th ehell in the right mind would want such a dumb system that has more confirmed kill of the drivers than a F35 fighter jet, a war machine. 

Audi is smart to not include nay of those ballast in their etron, a EV is heavy enough. 

Since I am unknown here, perhaps SciFrog, Xander, Schmoell, WM88, or other long-term members can chime in here and give their opinion on whether your assessment of AP is accurate or not?

How could you communicate with Whoopsy since you don't seem to own a sportscar? 😂

Guys, please watch your tone when exchanging opinions with a moderator. We only "allow" a Tesla discussion on Rennteam as a courtesy for users who own both, a Tesla and a sports car.

As a car lover, I have to admit that I do not comprehend the passion for a glorified gadget on four wheels but as a gadget lover, I get the fun of driving a fully electric car. The emphasis here is on gadget.

Whoever prefers an EV over a sports car may find a better place than Rennteam to be happy. Seriously!

@Scifrog: Very weird post since we've banned ONE user so far but if you think you want to become number two, please continue... 😑

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

If Tesla is planning on racing in the N24, how many cars would they require complete the race?  A conservative estimate would be four per driver: one on track and the other three at various levels of charging waiting for the driver swap.  

Come on, no one claimed that ELVs are suitable for N24. We all want to tone down a bit, right ? 

CGX car nut:

If Tesla is planning on racing in the N24, how many cars would they require complete the race?  A conservative estimate would be four per driver: one on track and the other three at various levels of charging waiting for the driver swap.  

And what good and valuable conclusions do you think will come out of this post?

lukestern:

CGX car nut:

If Tesla is planning on racing in the N24, how many cars would they require complete the race?  A conservative estimate would be four per driver: one on track and the other three at various levels of charging waiting for the driver swap.  

And what good and valuable conclusions do you think will come out of this post?

Wasn’t this the approach taken in Formula E until this year?   An EV May be capable of setting lap times comparable with an ICE race car; however, current battery technology limits the range at speed while ICEs still afford quicker refueling.  Even the largest battery packs available have an energy content of several liters of petrol.  However, there remains for the foreseeable future limits on battery pack size, measured in kWh, and charging capabilities.  Nothing can overcome those limitations, even with 800V systems.  

CGX car nut:

lukestern:

CGX car nut:

If Tesla is planning on racing in the N24, how many cars would they require complete the race?  A conservative estimate would be four per driver: one on track and the other three at various levels of charging waiting for the driver swap.  

And what good and valuable conclusions do you think will come out of this post?

Wasn’t this the approach taken in Formula E until this year?   An EV May be capable of setting lap times comparable with an ICE race car; however, current battery technology limits the range at speed while ICEs still afford quicker refueling.  Even the largest battery packs available have an energy content of several liters of petrol.  However, there remains for the foreseeable future limits on battery pack size, measured in kWh, and charging capabilities.  Nothing can overcome those limitations, even with 800V systems.  

Yep, I agree with that and racing/motorsport is not an area where EVs will be that appealing and stand no chance against ICE on the same terms and N24 is a race where EVs are toast due to the obvious limitations with charging in a scenario like this.

My question was more about what this adds to the discussion other than stating the obvious. I just didn't get the idea with such a post when considering the last couple of pages in this thread.

lukestern:

CGX car nut:

lukestern:

CGX car nut:

If Tesla is planning on racing in the N24, how many cars would they require complete the race?  A conservative estimate would be four per driver: one on track and the other three at various levels of charging waiting for the driver swap.  

And what good and valuable conclusions do you think will come out of this post?

Wasn’t this the approach taken in Formula E until this year?   An EV May be capable of setting lap times comparable with an ICE race car; however, current battery technology limits the range at speed while ICEs still afford quicker refueling.  Even the largest battery packs available have an energy content of several liters of petrol.  However, there remains for the foreseeable future limits on battery pack size, measured in kWh, and charging capabilities.  Nothing can overcome those limitations, even with 800V systems.  

Yep, I agree with that and racing/motorsport is not an area where EVs will be that appealing and stand no chance against ICE on the same terms and N24 is a race where EVs are toast due to the obvious limitations with charging in a scenario like this.

My question was more about what this adds to the discussion other than stating the obvious. I just didn't get the idea with such a post when considering the last couple of pages in this thread.

See Boxster Coupe GTS’ post roughly nine posts above where he makes the first mention of Tesla and the N24 race.  I had responded to that posting to highlight a significant disadvantage, based on present levels of technologies, EVs have with endurance racing. 

At one time, the adage was “Racing improves the breed.”  Today, with a few here, any statement that differs from their set beliefs, regardless of fact or opinion, become points of warmongering.  

You can swap batteries almost as fast as refueling the car or changing the tires (well maybe not F1 level yet, but endurance level probably).

They could also make the cars significantly slower, which might save a few tires and lives in the process, yet might make the races way more interesting than what F1 is today.

Carlos from Spain:

SciFrog:

Keith, be careful what you write, you are new here (well maybe you are , the account is new at least) and will get banned real fast especially if you disagree with some moderators. I have been here for 15 years and still gets zero respect from some of the mods, just because some have vested interests to protect one part of the automotive industry.

Which moderators have banned someone here because they disagree with them? Which moderators here have a vested interest in protecting one part of the automotive interest? ... listen to yourself Scifrog, you are loosing it, you sound ridiculous and outright slander towards the staff. This is how you want to earn respect?

We have banned only one member in recent years and was because of his tone and repeated attacks to other members after many many warnings, and no one here has vested interests in the automotive industry, get real. Now quit trying to provoke the staff, to play victim, it is pitiful, and try to stick to the topic.

--

 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

 

Sorry for the confusion, “threats of banning people”, not actually banning people.

If respect hasn’t been earned by now, it will not be. 15 years of civil behavior should be enough. We all have some interests in common clearly, this is an amazing group of people. Yet it cannot discuss hot topics without being disrespectful and condescending, politics or others. That’s probably what happens when you put a bunch of highly successful people with big egos in one place. Actually it is a small miracle it hasn’t imploded more than it already has, mostly because the biggest culprits have been shown the door out of the moderators “house”, as was just clearly reminded to all of us simple poor and stupid “guests”.

Also we are all hiding behind some level of anonymous profiles which exacerbates the heated discussions. If ones were to meet in person, things would be very different . Maybe one day I will have the pleasure to buy a drink to a few long time members here .

Tesla Model S caught on video bursting into flames seemingly on its own when parked

https://apple.news/AAFLqtUdoRz2LaVy4KAskpg

They clearly need to understand the reasons behind this and try to remedy it, if the manufacturer is indeed the cause, which is not clear yet. My yacht was destroyed by an electrical fire a few years ago and it is very frustrating to loose something in this manner.

SciFrog:

You can swap batteries almost as fast as refueling the car or changing the tires (well maybe not F1 level yet, but endurance level probably).

They could also make the cars significantly slower, which might save a few tires and lives in the process, yet might make the races way more interesting than what F1 is today.

Not sure if current battery swapping technology would be quicker than actually swapping cars given the numerous fasteners and cabling connections that must be established.  

Formula One is boring because the powers that be have added to many restrictions on the teams.  Either let them compete on a more open platform or move all teams to the same platform much like Indycar.   Watch the Indianapolis 500 for real wheel-to-wheel racing.

So it seems the 2019.8.3 update was not a good one. There are several new ones out already, but no way to force an update? That seems like an easy fix waiting to happen...

Carlos from Spain:

You have a lot to learn about what a sportscar is or means, you can't have more ofowhat you have zero of to begin with.  Instant electric torque to get around fast a short enough track so that it can do a lap before it overheats into limp mode has nothing to do with a sportscar, no matter the lap time. An Urus can probably lap faster than an Alta 4C in some tracks, doesn't make it more of a sportscar.

I suggest you try to sell and promote other qualities of the Models 3 than sportiness next time, you will have better luck in this crowd, this is a real sportscar enthusiast forum...

That really wasn't my point. My point was simply that for all intents and purposes in daily life the Model 3 is more than adequate for sporty performance. I never said it was a sports car or supercar, simply that it clearly can make for a sporty ride if you so choose.

I am curious though. There are many long topics about M5, Panamera, AMGs, and others. What do you consider these cars? Similar to the Model 3/Model S?

SciFrog, I did not mean it was as you say "trackable", I merely pointed out that it is capable of more than a brief stint of high performance that will be sufficient off the track. If it can do even 5-10 minutes of flat-out laps, it will be adequate in the real world. I know the streets of Europe can be a bit different than the United States, but 10+ minutes of flat out, track-like driving is not easy to find on a day-to-day basis. The comment about the NR is purely academic. If roads we like the NR, the NR wouldn't be called the NR and no one would care about it. I can't think of any unrestricted roads where you could drive flat out for 15 miles that aren't just straight lines. 

If you live anywhere remotely urban, I don't think the Model 3 will run into any performance-sapping issues. I think it will be more than capable of providing a fun drive no worse than M and AMG cars. Now whether cars like the BMW M3 are still considered sports cars is another matter.

The Taycan should easily outhandle the 3 and as such should be more fun to drive, it is a Porsche after all.

Being “enough” though is hard to define. Everyone will have a different limit. What you will find though is that for here is will not be enough for a fun car (myself included) since most have other toys in the garage. EV tech today is only good for daily drivers, family haulers despite EV tech being able to create “agile” and fast accelerating cars but it is hard to hide the extra weight. The Taycan might change that, at the expense of practicality (small rear seats), range, and high $$$ for the sportiest versions (ie > $150k). We will know soon enough when the car finally shows up at the dealerships.

I have written it a lot before. The benchmark will be the Macan EV. Sadly, the E-Tron precursor is a big disappointment in this gen1 version. It doesn’t even have enough range for my work commute in the winter...

SciFrog:

You can swap batteries almost as fast as refueling the car or changing the tires (well maybe not F1 level yet, but endurance level probably).

They could also make the cars significantly slower, which might save a few tires and lives in the process, yet might make the races way more interesting than what F1 is today.

I was at the Formula E race at Rome. First time at a EV race.

The Formula E cars are fast, and the racing action is fun with the boost function. But the problem is even with the Gen 2 cars the battery tech isn't there yet. The leader had to slow down on the last lap or else the whole field wouldn't have finish the race. 

Racing the 45mins + 1 lap in one go is quite impressive still. Still ways to go to match say the 90 mins races in Formula 1.

Since the cars have no sound, instead of heading outside to watch the race, it's better just to stay inside the lounge and watch the TV broadcast, that's the downside to silent racing.

Going forward why don’t we restrict comments to the Tesla Roadster which this thread is titled? As far as the Tesla brand, it’s been exhaustively discussed.

There is nothing stronger than gentleness.

SciFrog:

MKSGR:

schmoell:

The behavior of AP in my Model S changes significantly with major updates (as one would expect). The last version was likely designed to kill me and as such did emergency brakes (the community calls them "phantom brakes") on the autobahn at 160 kpa.  It also got really confused when driving though construction zones because it can't distinguish the white and yellow markings. Previous versions behaved better and for those I agree, that it was more advanced then the ones from competitors. My car is now on 2019.12, we'll see how this goes.  

You mean the latest update is worse than the older software?

Yes, but it is not the latest anymore.

Once-hailed 'Tesla Killer' Audi e-tron slows down production to just 6 hrs/day

https://apple.news/AB_g5pzBYQpqBFvDC5rH4zg

What kind of "media" is this? They even have a "Elon Musk" section 

Apple News? Not clear it is launched everywhere in Europe yet but in the USA it is pretty huge by now, it is a very sophisticated news aggregator.

Is not apple news, is "Teslarati"

Looks like a news outlet specializing in Tesla and in EV. They seem a bit biased but they are quite critical at times too...

Tesla “explodes” in parking garage:

https://i.imgur.com/zxs9lsF.gifv

Are the batteries well protected from road debris? Perhaps this was caused by a puncture?

This was posted yesterday here. Defect, puncture or arson, no answer yet.

nberry:

Going forward why don’t we restrict comments to the Tesla Roadster which this thread is titled? As far as the Tesla brand, it’s been exhaustively discussed.

 

completely agree...we talk more about tesla than any other sport brand.any news about the roadster? apart from some video where it looks almost impossible that a car can have that accelaration, I have not found anything new???

993 c2

Nothing new, Musk is failing at propping up the stock price with talks of automation  more on that later probably.

Managed to get 356mwh/h on my daily commute today. Extrapolated for 100% battery, that would yield 280 miles (450km) of range for a 2.4t 7 seater using zero tricks to reduce energy usage or driving any slower or different than usual. This is a mix of city and highway driving up to 75mph (120km/h) with some moderate but real traffic and some elevation changes. Simply stunning. In ideal highway conditions, I could easily get over 300 miles of range (480km). And the car is even fitted with the less efficient 22” wheels . And I even floored the car a few times...

On another note, Autosteer failed on a ramp with bad marking and that was wet and a lot of sun glare... I don’t think we are very close to autonomous driving. The car is still on the not so great 2019.8.3 (cannot force an update) and does not have the chip Musk touted yesterday (missed it by 2-3 weeks) but will be upgraded for free to it at later time, as part of the FSD package.

Someone designed a website that you can access on the car browser that brings all the relevant Waze information on the screen. Very clever, teslawaze.com Like many think here, it is just a gadget with wheels that just happen to accelerate faster than my Aston and almost as fast as my 612 and California.

As far as range anxiety, the system once again predicted EXACTLY how much battery would be left after the trip. Almost freaky.