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    Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Ford Motor Co. has picked India's Tata Motors Ltd. as the top bidder to buy its Jaguar and Land Rover units, the Detroit automaker said Thursday.

    Interesting stuff. I wonder what, if any, the implications will be on things like price, quality and additions to the model lineups.


    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    I it will affect negatively the image of Land Rover and Jag, people generally dont have a good perception of products associated with india.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Quote:
    palenimbus said:
    ... people generally dont have a good perception of products associated with india.



    So I guess your jeans ripped the first time you wore them and so did your shirt... Sorry but I just don't like generalisations like this. BTW, what products that are made in India do you feel people have a negative image of?

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    I don't know why you have an issue. Would a potential jag buyer prefer if the company is English or Indian? Do people generally prefer products made in Europe or India? The generalization in this case is true.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Quote:
    palenimbus said:
    I it will affect negatively the image of Land Rover and Jag, people generally dont have a good perception of products associated with india.



    It may be true to a certain extent, but only in theory. The world and businesses are getting increasingly international - especially when it comes to ownership. At the end of the day consumers look at the products, services and the marketing of these. If Land Rover and Jaguar don't mess up on the aforementioned points, I highly doubt the new ownership structure will affect sales.

    Albeit a different industry, look at what has happened after Lenovo purchased the PC division from IBM. Especially when it comes to ThinkPad notebooks, they are doing better than ever - better than when IBM was the owner. There was also a lot of outcry in the beginning (and even to this day) about how awful it would be now that a Chinese company was in charge of the legendary ThinkPad notebooks. But at the end of the day, the products are still more or less the same and they have increased sales and bottomline and actually gained a much wider customer group.

    In addition, do people really think hard about i.e. Proton's (Malaysian) relationship to Lotus? Automotive companies change owners like underwear and most customers do not even lift an eyebrow anymore, unless it directly affects them in some way.

    Sure, sometimes it is better if a company of a high image takes ownership of another company to boost the image, rather than the other way around. But at the end of the day, based on history, it doesn't mean much when it comes down to it.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Quote:
    palenimbus said:
    I it will affect negatively the image of Land Rover and Jag, people generally dont have a good perception of products associated with india.



    Prejudice is rampant on this site. This is not the first instance.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    palenimbus said:
    I it will affect negatively the image of Land Rover and Jag, people generally dont have a good perception of products associated with india.



    Prejudice is rampant on this site. This is not the first instance.



    Yes, and the rest of the world is no different, that's why my first statement is true.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Being an Indian I can agree with the generalization but working in shipping for a German company I can tell you more than half the stuff we assume is made in Europe or Japan is not actually made there. I can't give too many examples but, here's one. Bally Shoes, the decent ones are "Made In Swizterland", price USD 500 or more. Where are they really made? India. And the cost USD 12.00 per pair. I worked for Bally and I also worked for their shipping company and I know the actual manufacturer.

    Consumers are always pushing for better prices, we are the ones who are making them manufacture in India, China, Malaysia or other not so well off countries. In terms of quality its pretty much dictated by the "Brand Owner" and not even the actual manufacturer. Case for you is PC's - a whole bunch come out of the same factory! Apple, Acer, Sony, HP and a host of others are already produced in the most disgusting factories in Shenzen and Qindao. If you went to the locations you would be shocked at the "hot beds" the work places, the general abuse of poor people.

    How about cars? Most people in the UK (where I was raised) hate American cars, they look crap, drive crap and feel crap inside - sorry but "most" American cars these days do and I believe BMW amongst others are using the USA to manufacture and even South Africa as well as a few other places.

    Another example is Audi - Hyundai makes there body panels. The Continental Teves stuff is made in China or Mexico, Brembo is made in China, in the North in fact. It doesn't end.

    I think if Indians buy Jaguar they will give it the cash flow it needs. India has changed a lot, some in the music world (I play guitar) used to say Japanese guitars were trash, they are better than most of the US makers now!

    I think attitude comes into the equation. There is not so much pride in the cheaper side of the world! The Europeans are up themselves as much as the Americans but they still rely on Asians to manufacture for various reason. Cost being the main driver of course. Its only natural that the Asians will start to gain more and more control and take over more and more companies as time goes on. Lenovo is a good example but there are plenty more I am sure you will agree. Anyways, who cares? I wouldn't buy a Jag anyways ; )

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    I agree with what Porky Tokyo just wrote.

    Regarding production location, I haven't read anywhere that Tata plans to move these jobs from the UK to India. All I've heard is that Tata has bid to buy Jaguar and Land Rover from Ford.

    That takes me to the issue of where goods are made. I have no doubt that Jaguars and Land Rovers made in the UK are of fairly decent quality. I would expect these cars to be made to broadly the same quality if production were moved to India.

    However, I don't think that's in the offing for the short/medium term. I think Tata will keep production within the EU to enable easier movement of products within the vast (and expanding) EU market.

    Tata would no doubt set up additional manufacturing capacity in India to meet local Indian demand and also Asian demand more generally. Maybe one day they would team up with a local Chinese producer to at least assemble cars in China too.

    I think the Tata bid can only be a good thing. These brands are desperately short on cash and they need this investment just to stay alive. There's no point proudly talking about manufacturing heritage when factories are closing all around you.

    Turning to the 'allegedly negative perceptions that might follow with Indian ownership', IMO it's just prejudice and bigotry. Much of the world's manufacturing happens in China, India and elsewhere in Asia. That's just a simple fact. People don't like to acknowledge that their Ralph Lauren polo shirts were made in the Philippines and their Nike cross trainers were made in Indonesia but it's the reality.

    Those people work in conditions which we in the West would find unacceptable. They get paid much less than we would accept. They produce goods for multinational companies who package their goods as "Designed by Apple in California". It's a practice that occurs due to the prejudice that does exist.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    LL, Porky and Easy, points and argument are spot on and its true that there has been no mention to my knowledge that production is to be moved to India or elsewhere. Regardless, we live in a global economy where business' irrespective of where they are located have to meet consumer expectations... TATA being no exception. I am sure that they are more than capable of maintaining the quality of both brands.

    Plennimbus, I hope you're not a whisky drinker... India's UB Group bought Whyte & Mackay (and their associated brands including Jura) a few months ago... so do be careful in your choice tipple...

    Oh, the same chap bought the Spyker F1 team... the star performers that they were.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Some awesome posts in this thread. Very interesting/informative.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Regardless of owner, I think it makes sense to keep production in UK for the second, as the plant in Liverpool is pretty new and has won some quality awards.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    Regardless of owner, I think it makes sense to keep production in UK for the second, as the plant in Liverpool is pretty new and has won some quality awards.



    Agree that it would be nice if the production could remain in the UK... especially if the plant is relatively modern and possibly for reasons of tradition... e.g. Jaguar - not British made... hmmm just doesn't sound right does it... Issues of quality are not a factor.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    As far as Jaguar quality... friends who owned Jags for several decades, tell me that the Jaguar quality improved dramatically when Ford took over. Prior to that there was no quality, just a pretty car. Therefore, staying in Britain, without guarantees of quality production methods, means nothing.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Quote:
    Porky Tokyo said:
    Being an Indian I can agree with the generalization but working in shipping for a German company I can tell you more than half the stuff we assume is made in Europe or Japan is not actually made there. I can't give too many examples but, here's one. Bally Shoes, the decent ones are "Made In Swizterland", price USD 500 or more. Where are they really made? India. And the cost USD 12.00 per pair. I worked for Bally and I also worked for their shipping company and I know the actual manufacturer.

    Consumers are always pushing for better prices, we are the ones who are making them manufacture in India, China, Malaysia or other not so well off countries. In terms of quality its pretty much dictated by the "Brand Owner" and not even the actual manufacturer. Case for you is PC's - a whole bunch come out of the same factory! Apple, Acer, Sony, HP and a host of others are already produced in the most disgusting factories in Shenzen and Qindao. If you went to the locations you would be shocked at the "hot beds" the work places, the general abuse of poor people.

    How about cars? Most people in the UK (where I was raised) hate American cars, they look crap, drive crap and feel crap inside - sorry but "most" American cars these days do and I believe BMW amongst others are using the USA to manufacture and even South Africa as well as a few other places.

    Another example is Audi - Hyundai makes there body panels. The Continental Teves stuff is made in China or Mexico, Brembo is made in China, in the North in fact. It doesn't end.

    I think if Indians buy Jaguar they will give it the cash flow it needs. India has changed a lot, some in the music world (I play guitar) used to say Japanese guitars were trash, they are better than most of the US makers now!

    I think attitude comes into the equation. There is not so much pride in the cheaper side of the world! The Europeans are up themselves as much as the Americans but they still rely on Asians to manufacture for various reason. Cost being the main driver of course. Its only natural that the Asians will start to gain more and more control and take over more and more companies as time goes on. Lenovo is a good example but there are plenty more I am sure you will agree. Anyways, who cares? I wouldn't buy a Jag anyways ; )



    Totally agree with Porky and since I am involved in the Automotive business from the Logistic-side and having visited GM/TATA/Daimler etc there I can just give you one statement of a german ingenieur saying "...it took us 7 Years to train the people here but now we're producing/assembling the same quality as back in Sindelfingen..." - so as much as I agree for people that do not know , a certain perception is there but as for any products being produced in Asia or South Asia don't believe all stickers on yr pants and shirt saying made in Italy etc - I've seen it all....
    If USA or Europe wouldn't be that good in R&D + Design still - I would say there really in trouble....on a long run they certainly will be.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Quote:
    BjoernB said:
    If USA or Europe wouldn't be that good in R&D + Design still - I would say there really in trouble....on a long run they certainly will be.



    Very true When richer countries cannot compete on labour and materials costs anymore, they need to rely on something else to maintain their competitive advantage.

    I think we are very slowly but surely seeing a seismic shift in the global economic hierarchy. We live in changing times and the sooner we adapt smartly to it, the better prepared we will be to survive economically in this changed world economic reality.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    I hope they will move to india, then move to the moon, then in another solar system! AHAHAHAHAH

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    One of the lonley markets really selling Jags is the GB-Island. Most out of patroitisnm.

    Maybe some Indians are selling their Rikscha now and going on a Jag?

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    I think Jaguars and non-military Land Rovers are only admired and bought in some quantity, in the UK and in some ex-colonies. So things can only get better for them.

    Re: Jaguar and Land Rover moving to India?

    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    One of the lonley markets really selling Jags is the GB-Island. Most out of patroitisnm.

    Maybe some Indians are selling their Rikscha now and going on a Jag?



    You bet As long as it has a brand-name it will be bought. India will overtake China in population the next years...
    However, still do not believe that Jag ever will come back strongly. People in Asia buy BMW,Merc,Porsch's now more n more Audi's or then Japanese. A couple of nice RR Sports here and there and if you made it big you'd rather order a Bentley a Rolls or a Aston which are sold out here for years...

     
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