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    997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Today I had the chance to get a 997 Carrera Tiptronic for a testdrive. The car had no chrono sport package and no PASM or 20 mm chassis. No 19'' wheels either.

    It was a very smooth ride, the suspension though is stiffer then anticipated and although there is noticeable difference in stiffness and especially in sportiness to the 20 mm chassis on my 997 Carrera S, the difference in ride quality isn't that big as expected.
    Comfort oriented people might want to go for PASM to be able to get that extra comfort on the push of a button.

    Surprisingly, the steering feels a little bit less direct and less nervous than the steering on my 997 Carrea S.
    It might have to do with the 19'' wheels and the sportier tread mixture of the 19'' Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires.

    Engine sound is pretty good too, surprisingly. It doesn't provide that special "roar" of the 997 Carrera S, especially in higher rev ranges above 5000 rpm but it makes the engine sound pretty enjoyable, though not as loud as some people would like it to be. But again, comfort oriented people will be happy, although it might be even a tick too loud and sporty for them.

    The Tiptronic works very nicely, it reacts fast, throttle response is pretty good but could be better, especially when the throttle isn't fully applied. Compared to the 996 Tiptronic setup, the 997 Tiptronic seems to work faster, more spontaneous and much more "logical". I also liked the acceleration from standstill, there is no lag whatsoever. If you fully apply the throttle from standstill, you get an instant full acceleration without hesitation or any traction problems. And no, not even the PSM comes on, pretty impressive and another argument FOR the rear engine design of the 911.

    Another big surprise: the engine feels much more powerful than the 997 Carrera S engine. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the Tiptronic somehow always chooses the right gear on a logical basis and therefore "covers" pretty good any power or torque gap which might exist, especially compared to the Carrera S. I also mentioned that the Carrera S needs high rev figures above 4000-5000 rpm to be and feel fast, the Carrera seems to be more torque oriented and in combination with the fabulous Tiptronic reaction, it results almost in a perfect combo.

    Final conclusion: personally, I think that the 997 Carrera Tiptronic is the perfect choice for people who drive a lot in the city and in city areas. And as much as I hate to say it but I honestly believe that the 325 HP are sufficient for this car. The more high rev oriented engine of the Carrera S, though it has more torque on the paper, is very nice for a manual gearbox but I'm not sure it provides a lot of fun with Tiptronic and especially in the city.

    The only two things I would miss would be the chrono sport package and the PASM suspension. A 997 Carrera Tiptronic with those two extra options would be the perfect combo for owners who don't want to drive like a racecar driver all the time and who want to relax too for the next business meeting.

    It definetely wouldn't be my choice but I'm surprised to learn how good the 997 Carrera Tiptronic is and how fast it can be, even without 30 HP more and the 20 mm chassis.

    Update: The 997 Carrera had the standard sound system, not the BOSE sound system installed. I'm no real audiophile, I just love to listen to music but it is a huge difference between the standard sound system and the BOSE system. I can only recommend to go for the BOSE system, even if you listen to music only occasionally.


    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Thanks for the review RC, excellent as usual.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Very cool review thanks.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Very cool sign at your garage wall

    Nice review and now I'm wondering how you would compare a
    manual PASM equipped carrera to your S

    Btw . Did you see how sexy your car looks in this pic

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    RC: Your impression is another nail in the coffin of the manual stick shift. My 11 is a 6-speed and I always had a manual car in my garage, but perhaps not for long. The newer tip-S and the upcoming DSG will perform better than a manual. If one moves the macho feeelings aside, one must conclude that a manual clutch is ox and cart technology.

    P.S. - about the sign... where can I get one?

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Quote:
    RC said:

    Another big surprise: the engine feels much more powerful than the 997 Carrera S engine. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the Tiptronic somehow always chooses the right gear on a logical basis and therefore "covers" pretty good any power or torque gap which might exist, especially compared to the Carrera S. I also mentioned that the Carrera S needs high rev figures above 4000-5000 rpm to be and feel fast, the Carrera seems to be more torque oriented and in combination with the fabulous Tiptronic reaction, it results almost in a perfect combo.




    amazing rc ,before i took my 997s and after i sold my 996tt i had a 2 month gap ,in which i bought a manual 03 996 carrera(pic attached) ,and i was amazed by the performance ,really,after i took delivery of the 997s ,i directly noticed that the 997 had a "gap" between 3500 and 5000rpm,after that its a missile,but i said to myself its maybe because the engine is still new .but the 996 had a better torque feeling and is linear from the beginning till the end .to get performance with my s you have to stay above 5000 like you said ,not annoying when you get used to it ,but i also liked that torque feeling on the 996..

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Has anyone driven the C2S tiptronic back to back with the standard car? I have a C2S tip on order and would be very disappointed, not to say several thousand pounds worse off, if it turned out that the standard car was more responsive than the "S".

    HELP!!!!

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    "Another big surprise: the engine feels much more powerful than the 997 Carrera S engine. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the Tiptronic somehow always chooses the right gear on a logical basis and therefore "covers" pretty good any power or torque gap which might exist, especially compared to the Carrera S. I also mentioned that the Carrera S needs high rev figures above 4000-5000 rpm to be and feel fast, the Carrera seems to be more torque oriented and in combination with the fabulous Tiptronic reaction, it results almost in a perfect combo."

    RC,

    How this can be possible? The basic 997 has less horse powers and "smaller" engine I think. I believe you point the reason tust the auto trans, but I always thought the manual provides better acceleration opps considering you know to drive it and I know you do!!

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Quote:
    lev said:
    RC,

    How this can be possible? The basic 997 has less horse powers and "smaller" engine I think. I believe you point the reason tust the auto trans, but I always thought the manual provides better acceleration opps considering you know to drive it and I know you do!!




    I really think my initial feeling, as weird as it was, has to do with the Tiptronic and throttle response setup. The throttle response is VERY direct and you always get the right gear. It somehow feels like you have a little turbo charger hidden somewhere...

    I did some further testing before I brought the car back and it is definetely NOT faster than my Carrera S.
    There is a certain street and some certain "reference" points where I achieve certain speeds when I start from standstill. At the last reference point, I did 211 kph with the Carrera Tiptronic and 248 kph with the Carrera S.

    I think that Porsche really adapted the 997 Carrera S to a more sporty setup, providing most fun over 4500 rpm.
    A completely different approach on the 997 Carrera, the engine feels strong at lower rev figures too.
    Some people might not like the Carrera S setup but I just love it, it reminds me a little bit of the GT3.
    Only one problem: over 4500 rpm, the noise level and exhaust/airbox sound increases very much and people outside the car, even if I'm not fast, start to turn around with annoyed faces. I'm afraid this won't get better with the sport exhaust.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    RC, you live in a conservative area... What do you expect?

    The very first comment on the 997 S back some time ago stated the exact same and no real performance advantage of the 997S over the 996 (with perf. kit). Good to know that we can trust our fellow forum members!

    Anyways, especially the lack of torque is not understandable to me - especially considering the increased displacement. In my opinion the S has a much higher gas consumption than previous models, at least that occurred on my testdrive. I wasn't going that slow on the other hand...

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review


    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...=true#Post42670

    J.Seven

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Lars report agrees w/ RC - that is, that the S takes off above 5k RPM and the non-S "feels" torquier below 5k RPM.

    That is a puzzle, because the S has higher torque - 10-20Nm more torque - over the full rev range than the base car. What people report may have to do with ECU tuning, such as the throtle response curve and other settings. Maybe RC could raise this w/ PAG and see what they say. OK RC?

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    ADias, I have been wondering about this very point for some time myself.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Lars report agrees w/ RC - that is, that the S takes off above 5k RPM and the non-S "feels" torquier below 5k RPM.

    That is a puzzle, because the S has higher torque - 10-20Nm more torque - over the full rev range than the base car. What people report may have to do with ECU tuning, such as the throtle response curve and other settings. Maybe RC could raise this w/ PAG and see what they say. OK RC?



    I'm more inclined to think that the reported differences between the 997 S and standard can be put down to subjective impressions, because the reports are not based on objective performance measurements.

    If you want your car to subjectively "feel" faster, you just have to sabotage your muffler!

    I'm not suggesting anybody really does this tho'. Apart from excessive noise emissions, it is likely to reduce the engine's power output in reality.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Rc,

    i see that you drove the tip without sport chrono package.
    well,in sport mode and driving it in automatic is fantastic.
    upshifts and downshifts are incredibile.there is always the right gear at the right time.Maybe i prefer it to the manual mode.
    I would like to know your impressions with scp.

    greetings.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Lars report agrees w/ RC - that is, that the S takes off above 5k RPM and the non-S "feels" torquier below 5k RPM.

    That is a puzzle, because the S has higher torque - 10-20Nm more torque - over the full rev range than the base car. What people report may have to do with ECU tuning, such as the throtle response curve and other settings. Maybe RC could raise this w/ PAG and see what they say. OK RC?



    Guys, my English isn't always too good and I understand that some of my words might be understood a little bit differently than I actually planned to but regarding the 997 Carrera and the Carrera S, I always said that the Carrera engine feels stronger and torquier than the Carrera S engine, I didn't say that it actually really is stronger or has more torque. Re-read my 997 Carrera Tiptronic review and I mention that I drove from a certain "reference" point A to a reference point and the Carrera S was much faster which of course had to do with the Tiptronic on the Carrera too.

    I also tracked down another source of that "feeling" I had: the chrono sport package. When I turn the "sport" button off, the 997 Carrera S engine "feels" to have more torque, similar to the Carrera experience I had. Now there are two possible explenations for this "subjective(?)" experience:
    1. the software mapping change caused by activating the chrono sport package "sport" button is more "dramatic" than actually stated by Porsche
    2. the whole experience is just based on a subjective feel caused by the chrono sport package, a different M97 engine setup incl. throttle response and exhaust sound

    Personally I think it is a combination of both.
    For potential buyers, this is actually a bad thing: they testdrive both cars, they get the feel that the Carrera isn't much different than the Carrera S and maybe make the "wrong" decision. The Carrera S is definetely faster than the Carrera but the subjective feel (or called "popometer" in german language...I leave it to fritz to find the proper translation... ) indicates something else.

    To help you find a "real world" comparison for the 997 Carrera S performance: I recently encountered an Audi RS4 shortly before we entered a short Autobahn track. In the curves before entering the Autobahn, the RS4 didn't stand any chance, falling back strongly.
    When entering the Autobahn, I had to slow down to around 120 kph because of a car ahead of me. The Audi RS4 was right behind me shortly after. When the car in front of me moved to the right, I fully accelerated (chrono sport active!) and we had the chance to drive up to a speed of around 270 kph on the speedo. Up to that speed, the Audi RS4 was right behind me, he didn't fall back one second but he didn't seem to be able to get any closer.
    After this short Autobahn ride, I parked in the parking lot of a local store and surprise, surprise, the Audi RS4 came too. The driver got out and we started to talk. He actually followed me because he wanted to ask me how I'm satisfied with the new 997. He owned a 993 before the Audi RS4 but due to his business needs, he needed a bigger car for loading parcels, etc. in the rear.
    He seemed pretty impressed by the performance, he said that for the first time he couldn't pass a normally aspirated 911 and this was another reason why he followed me to learn if the car is stock.
    I asked him if his car is stock because I had 270 on the speedo and he was still behind me but he said that his RS4 was going pretty well, especially since he passed 10000 km.
    I'm not sure if I should believe it but he mentioned that at no time he was able to pass me, he was driving at FULL throttle and he also mentioned that when we drove that curves before entering the Autobahn, it looked like as my 997 was driving on rails, he was VERY impressed and said that his car was already starting to slip away why I was rocketing through the curve without any sign of instability.

    According to various car magazines, the RS4 does 0-62 mph in 4.6 to 4.7 seconds and 0-125 mph in 16.6 to 17 seconds, so maybe his car was really stock.

    I also had a 993 Turbo encounter a week ago, according to my dealer this car (he is a customer) had the 450 HP powerkit. The 993 Turbo driver had his wife sitting next to him, we drove up to around 250 kph and from around 80 kph up to around 230 kph, he was coming nearer and nearer pretty fast but when I entered the first Autobahn curve at around 250, he fell back. Maybe his wife got a little bit nervous... Although I never expected to outrun a 993 Turbo or be at the same performance level, it showed me that it isn't too easy for a 993 Turbo to pass a 997 Carrera S. It needs a longer distance and it should be significant on a german Autobahn only, not on little country roads.

    That said, I think the 997 Carrera S performs exactly to specs and factory claims. Unfortunately I didn't see any 997 Carrera reviews with performance numbers yet but I expect to seem some very soon. But to be clear: from 0-125 mph, there is only one second performance difference between the Carrera and Carrera S.

    So I still believe that the M97 Carrera S engine has a different characteristic compared to the M96 engine of the 997 Carrera. And I can't hide the feeling that the M97 engine is slightly "underpowered", intentionally. So maybe the rumors of a 380 HP powerkit are correct but I wish the 997 Carrera S would have had 380 HP from the start. Time will tell.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Quote:
    RC said:
    ...So I still believe that the M97 Carrera S engine has a different characteristic compared to the M96 engine of the 997 Carrera. And I can't hide the feeling that the M97 engine is slightly "underpowered", intentionally. So maybe the rumors of a 380 HP powerkit are correct but I wish the 997 Carrera S would have had 380 HP from the start. Time will tell.



    To make a long story short, I'd say most of us have the same feeling on the car's engine and its characteristic.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The Carrera S is definetely faster than the Carrera but the subjective feel (or called "popometer" in german language...I leave it to fritz to find the proper translation... ) indicates something else.




    Sorry, I'm not up to the challenge! Can't think of an equivalent English word to "Popometer". If i wanted to invent one, I'd go with "buttometer", meaning a seat-of-the pants performance gauge.

    I've only driven a Carrera S so far, so cannot compare the performance of the two versions. My impression was that the engine has so much torque that it produces such effortless acceleration that you are just not conscious of how good the performance really is, or how fast you are really moving. This is a "problem" I also have with the 996 Turbo.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    The Carrera S is definetely faster than the Carrera but the subjective feel (or called "popometer" in german language...I leave it to fritz to find the proper translation... ) indicates something else.




    Sorry, I'm not up to the challenge! Can't think of an equivalent English word to "Popometer". If i wanted to invent one, I'd go with "buttometer", meaning a seat-of-the pants performance gauge.

    I've only driven a Carrera S so far, so cannot compare the performance of the two versions. My impression was that the engine has so much torque that it produces such effortless acceleration that you are just not conscious of how good the performance really is, or how fast you are really moving. This is a "problem" I also have with the 996 Turbo.



    Execuse me for butting in Seat of the pants is the right tranlsation for popometer.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    I have tried both 997 and 997S with manual gearbox. I felt the 997S had better low rpm power during the hole range.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Hit 2000 miles yesterday and had my first opportunity to give my S a thorough work out with Sport Chrono switched on. Mine is a tip and the difference between having Chrono switched on and off is just incredible. The kickdown between gears just seems to be lightning fast, its fluidity sensational and the wind down noise on depressing the accelerator makes it seem like a race car. I seriously doubt that with my skills that I would be able to shoot from point A to B (i.e. change down to the right gear) faster than the tip.

    Just my 2 cents, but the combination of PASM and Sport Chrono on some hilly twists (and you really need to test it on these sorts of roads) make this car feel like a missile approaching warp speed. I can't believe the difference pressing that button makes. If you order a tip (and God, I can't wait for DSG), then in my opinion, you would be mad not to tick the Chrono option.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Thanks finally for an enthusiastic review of a tiptronic equiped "S". I'm collecting mine 1st week of Jan and I've not seen much in the way of positive reviews on that combo. I've also ordered the sport chrono.

    Basalt, have you had 911 tips before? I had both 3.4 and 3.6 996 tips, I just wondered how they compared?

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Sorry Senator, no Porsches before. Previously an AMG CL55 with auto. Although the Carrera tip is not as smooth as the MB's, it makes the AMG seem dull by comparison. Would be interested though in your reaction when you get yours.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    basalt, interesting comparison to cl55. did you have the supercharged, 490hp (2003 and afterward)? i ask because i'll be going from the 2003 sl55 to the 997s, and have been a little worried about the performance comparison. thanks.

    Re: 997 Carrera Tiptronic - short review

    Hi Trice - yes, the 500bhp version. I can't speak for the SL's dynamics (of which I'm sure are superb), but the CL just had to much bulk to move. It pulled like a train (and it's ability to overtake was incredible) but it was just too big to gun around the bends in. The 997 feels like a go-cart. It just seems faster point to point and just makes you laugh every time you push it further and experience an even higher ability. Do miss the AMG a bit though, but not the ownership experience.

     
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