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    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    boytronic:

    We know Porsche is racing the 991 with the Mezger engine this year. Is the intention to develop this new DFI GT3 block this year so that they can race it next year? Or will the Mezger continue as the race engine for the foreseeable future?

    hi boytronic,

    good question..nobody really knows. I suspect they will use the Mezger until the new Boxer 8 Cylinder is there...simply since they have no other choice. The current 9A1 engine, also in the 991 GT3 now, has been introduced in 2008..and developed already some time before..if Porsche still doesnt use it in racing in 2013..what are they waiting for?

    Thats why I believe they will continue to use it..as they have no other choice..they had at least 5 years to prepare the 9a1 engine for racing..

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    911rox:
    GTlover:
    KresoF1:
    Rossi:

    I really don't understand this whole Ring-time-mania. enlightened

    Who of us can really achieve such times? To whom of us are these really important? Who has a benefit in his everyday driving?

    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

    Totally agree with you. Ring time is indication what car can do in VERY capable hands.

    Also, I do not understand why are some people here worried about PDK in GT3? Thank God for PDK in GT3 IMHO!

    Days of manual gearbox in sportscar are over. Period. Some need to accept that... This is also a good new for 997/997.2 GT3 used market since price will remain more or less stable.

    What I do not like to repeat is the fact that 991 become pretty expensive in comparison to 997.2 models. I was thinking to get 991C4S with X51 and end price of my configuration was close to 160K € in Germany! That is too much IMO. New GT3 will probably cost around 130K € as base price and when you add some goodies like Navi etc, you could be in 150K area. If that is the case I could see myself buying new GT3 since it will be chaper then fully equiped 991C4S with X51. BUT, I am affraid that base price of new GT3 will be close to 145K €...

    hi Kreso,

    While I agree with you that:

    a) anything below 7:30 would be sensational - simply because with 450-480hp  cannot achieve 7:20 or anything below

    b) that its probably good news for 997.2 GT3 owners..last manual etc.

    c) 991 GT3 is too expensive ..but also a 991 4S is be too much

    d) manual gearbox will in the long run probably disappear

    I dont agree with your - sorry for my words - "arrogance" when you write certain things here.. "your P source..period"..These are elements for me to refrain for being here at rennteam, who are yout to decide about all this..? May I remind you that for the last years Porsche only offered manual gearbox for GT3..the GT3 was a 100% manual car..if people didnt like it they would have bought something else. Besides, I also know a few people at Porsche..its just like any other employer, many are frustrated, some are happy, - I dont know any P employee telling me "great, there will be no manual on 991 GT3; or great, since VW took over - everything is better". Even they realise that probably the good old days of Porsche sportscars are over. That the 911 is not selling well in Germany is no secret..and to get them sold Porsche is giving massive discounts. 5-8% on new ones, which are then 1 year later another 25K€ worth less.

    Lets see how in the long term view the whole story will develop..but decisions will not be taken by you or me, or your P-source..the market will dictatete the future. Porsches main problem in the future will be to comply with the relevant legislations..and they are currently already "behind". I know that because of this - which is nit their mistake - we get such "half way - luxury sportcars"

    I hope I didnt offend you..but I think your wording/attitutude here is a bit off the line..in other forums I dont see that..

    Lets wait for the news on the 991 GT3..would be happy if your ordered one,.,and could us know how it drivesSmiley

    GTlover, thanks for making the point because as you rightly pointed out, it was not the content of the response that was somewhat arrogant, the delivery certainly was... 

    Some of us may believe that the manual is a dinosaur that should be buried BUT as you rightly pointed out, for over the past decade the GT following and phenomenon has been centred around a manual based car. The introduction of PDK is great but why a company would make it mandatory on a niche vehicle that has established its own kind of enthusiast following then offer it as an option only on a Carrera or CS is crazy! If they wanted to make it a PDK only range, take it out of the mainstream cars to lower emissions targets and at least offer the option for those whom have grown to appreciate it. Sure, after one or two generations it may have been phased out but not so abruptly as is planned.

    The GT3 may well end up going from "the origin motorsport" car to the "cars and coffee" car and that would be a truely sad day for the brand indeed....

    Kreso,  your  input on new models is appreciated but respect that others have grown to appreciate ther cars a certain way and would love the "choice" of deciding the transmission in their cars as you're enjoying if you go the Carrera path!

    hi 911 rox,

    thanks for your support..hey..we are all Porsche fans. We just have to realize that things are changing now..I dont want to think about the 911 in 10 years...it will a castrated hybrid..and in 20 years the 911 will be dead anyway..wont keep up with new emission laws..or only if its dowgraded to a 4 cylinder with 150HP..I know Im maybe overreacting ..but I think the best years are over...

    Anyway, each of us has its preferences..the good thing is we can all choose from the models out there..no one is forced to buy a new Porsche..and no one is forced to buy a 997 GT3 if he wants to have a 991 GT3 - to each his choice. For the moment the 991 GT3 will probably not be my next car..thats it. That doesnt mean its a bad car..

    all the best,


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    911rox,

    Just forgot to mention - what I wrote in my previous post is for me enough reason not to sell -ANY - and NEVER any of my 997 GT variants...I will take them to my grave.:)

    I certainly might buy a newer Porsche one day..but as it seems they will be rather "complementary"..for this purpose boxster or caymen are a good choice.

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I agree with you GTlover and plan a similar path... The 997.2 GT3 goes to the grave and if Porsche ever produce another with its components proven on a race track, i will again reconsider and add to the garage, even a pdk... Otherwise, i too will be closesly following the Cayman range or spend my money elsewhere...

    The greatest appeal for many of us that appreciated what the GT cars stood for was that effectively they were Cup cars with an interior and enough manipulation to make them street legal. Effectively street legal  racecars!  I do hope to see another released one day :)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    Red line will be around 8000rpm. My source told me "above 8000", but IMHO it will be maybe little bit above.

    Ring time will be around 7.30min or little bit less-factory one of course. We can expect around 7.32-7.34 in HvS hands since he is always around 5s-6s slower then Porsche factory time.

    I am more wondering about the tires since Pirellis that will be for sure on new GT3 are not suited very much for wet road. Some alternative tire would be more then welcome IMO. One that can be used daily or on the wet road with good confidence. Otherwise new GT3 will be only sunny weather toy...

    Hey Kreso,

    There are rumours that we will see Michelin Pilot Super Sport "N" rated tyres available for the 991 GT3...

    ...along with Dunlop Sport Maxx Race tyres...

    ...with Timo Kluck seen testing the Dunlop tyres on a 997 GT3 RS 4.0 at the Nurburgring...

     

    ...how does that sound for 991 GT3 tyre options?

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Haha, how did I missed the tropical storm here?

    From tread pattern alone without considering compound, the SuperSports will be bad compared with PZero in the wet, simple physics on water evacuation, there is not enough lateral groves on the tread. 

    From experience I know in the wet the PZero is superior to PS2 on the Turbo/Turbo S, no idea on the SS as I haven't tried it, but the PZero is more surefooted than the PS2, but the Bridgestone 050A was best among the 3 mentioned. But for dry grip the PS2 wins no contest.

    Not sure why you guys knock on the Pirelli's, blind worship of Michelin? or blind worship of dry grip alone? Michelin has out of this world dry grip but when the surface gets wet or cold it is no longer king. All tires are compromises, Michelin bias theirs to the dry side and Pirelli in the middle and Bridgestone bias towards the other, is that wrong?

    I also have PZero on the McLaren, not that I have a choice but they still perform great, dry or wet.

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Why not new Michelin Sport Cup 2,as seen on SLS Black?

    2014-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-black-series-wheel-detail.jpg


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Yet another dry tire :)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Yes it is,but GT3s were using cups ad corsas since 996rs,so this is what i'd expect on a new one

    And tires like that are not only bad in wet but in cold also

    Its not hard to replace tires if someone preferes all weather capabilitiy(or lives in Canada:) )

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Kressoooo please keep posting, I am still waiting for your answer from my private message!!!


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    GTlover:
    redline: OK..i suspect that in the end - the 997.2 GT3 3.8 was - is - the highest revving Porsche ever..why? If the redline of the new one is exactly also at 8500..due to the PDK - overshifts can be avoided..with overshifts on 997.2 Gt3 one could easily go to 9500..or more. 9500 is not really a problem for the old GT1 engine.

    The RSR revs to 9,500, but this causes it to be torn down and rebuilt every 30 hours or so - not suitable for a car with a warranty


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    The three likely tyre choices for the 991 GT3 will be the michelin sport Cups, Pirelli Trofeo and/or the Dunlop Sport Max Race... All carry a warning against use in standing water for risk of aquaplaning but its been no different for previous cars... Those in wet climates are best to swap to the Michelin Pilot Super Sports during the wet season. Fantastic tyres in the wet or dry on track and street alike... My current street and wet track tyre...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Mrok:

    Kressoooo please keep posting, I am still waiting for your answer from my private message!!!

    Mrok, I didn't get your PM.Smiley Since rennteam changed servers there was some problems. Please, send it again.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    So is the wet integrated sump confirmed for the GT3?

    If so, has anyone successfully raced a wet sump block with no issues??


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Hey Kreso, what about some early GT3 pic-leak? smiley


    --


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Some pics should be on-line within next ten days.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    devil


    --


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    Some pics should be on-line within next ten days.

    so close, yet so far!  Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    If the spoiler remains the UGLY one - I'm already don't like new GT3 enlightened Hope for miracle....


    --


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Kreso,

    just to also align on previous comments : you are one of the few we as car enthusiasts fully trust. I can even believe some people can just raise some credibility/reliability concerns.

    to be clear : ALL what you see is most of the time 98% verified, and of course YES we want you to continue teasing us on news !Smiley

    Having said that, I would agree completely with you regarding entry price : 130k is an increase, but regarding 991 range, I could understand and even put a deposit.

    150k entry level will be clear NO WAY ! The car will loose 20k in 3 months, and most probably 45k in 1 year.

    i would now look into a 10k F458 for 150k, with 7 years warranty.

    I m no Ferrari fan, but Porsche, come on, if you continue to squeeze the lemon and your milk cows we are, you are loosing identity!

    shame on you porsche ! Why loosing ground and the car enthusiasts who have made the brand what it is now ?

    pricing is insane .......Smiley

     


    --

    997 Carrera S Triple Black Sold now ... Good car 997 GT3 triple black wow what a car !!!


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Blast from the past:

    in 2004-2007 GT3 and GT3 RS were trading above MSRP in the US. $20k to $40k...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Blast from the past:

    in 2004-2007 GT3 and GT3 RS were trading above MSRP in the US. $20k to $40k...

    OK..but what are you trying to tell us by this? I know that unlike in Europe..the 997 GT3 3.8 has recently increased in the US again..you Americans are in some respect smarter then us here in EuropeSmiley..you know whats good.

    You are even ordering more manual over there compared to here..Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Grant:
    GTlover:
    redline: OK..i suspect that in the end - the 997.2 GT3 3.8 was - is - the highest revving Porsche ever..why? If the redline of the new one is exactly also at 8500..due to the PDK - overshifts can be avoided..with overshifts on 997.2 Gt3 one could easily go to 9500..or more. 9500 is not really a problem for the old GT1 engine.

    The RSR revs to 9,500, but this causes it to be torn down and rebuilt every 30 hours or so - not suitable for a car with a warranty

    yes and no - what I meant was saying that the current GT3 will have no problems if some entries are in the range 1-4..and at 4 youre already at 9500...the RSR has the the 9500 as "operating" limit..yes..but the normal one can also sustain it very briefly..I know of GT3s that were close to 11,000Rpm..- not RSR.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    GTlover:
    SciFrog:

    Blast from the past:

    in 2004-2007 GT3 and GT3 RS were trading above MSRP in the US. $20k to $40k...

    OK..but what are you trying to tell us by this? I know that unlike in Europe..the 997 GT3 3.8 has recently increased in the US again..you Americans are in some respect smarter then us here in EuropeSmiley..you know whats good.

    You are even ordering more manual over there compared to here..Smiley

    I meant Porsche at that time priced the GT3 too low compare to what people wanted to pay...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:
    GTlover:
    SciFrog:

    Blast from the past:

    in 2004-2007 GT3 and GT3 RS were trading above MSRP in the US. $20k to $40k...

    OK..but what are you trying to tell us by this? I know that unlike in Europe..the 997 GT3 3.8 has recently increased in the US again..you Americans are in some respect smarter then us here in EuropeSmiley..you know whats good.

    You are even ordering more manual over there compared to here..Smiley

    I meant Porsche at that time priced the GT3 too low compare to what people wanted to pay...

    OK..yes..to a large degree - I agree. The 997.2 GT3 was a very good car..for that price. For 112 basic price you could make the life of some lambos, ferraris, astons etc..quite difficult. It was rock solid..(Ok..maybe CL issue was its main problem) and offered a good thrill.

    I would predict anyway a situation where in 3 years, a 2010 GT3 will be worth more than a 2013 GT3..but lets see. Its just my personal feeling..10 years I ago I said the 3.6 turbo 964 is a pretty rare car that might jump in value..and it did. For the 997.2 gt3, clearly speaks that they are the last manual GT3s..with the last GT1 engine block..but we will see.

    First, we have to see the new 991 GT3 baby now..


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    thierry:

    [...], but Porsche, come on, if you continue to squeeze the lemon and your milk cows we are, you are loosing identity!

    shame on you porsche ! Why loosing ground and the car enthusiasts who have made the brand what it is now ?

    pricing is insane .......Smiley

    but pricing hasn't been officially announced yet! Smiley

    --

    997 GT3 3.8


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    thierry:

    Kreso,

    to be clear : ALL what you see is most of the time 98% verified, and of course YES we want you to continue teasing us on news !Smiley

    Why tease?  Why not just spill the beans?


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Budster:
    thierry:

    Kreso,

    to be clear : ALL what you see is most of the time 98% verified, and of course YES we want you to continue teasing us on news !Smiley

    Why tease?  Why not just spill the beans?

    Agreed! I'm sure the PIA (Porsche Intelligence Agency) won't try to track you down! Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    How about this - it will cost over 100k no matter what currency you apply ;)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    911rox:
    Budster:
    thierry:

    Kreso,

    to be clear : ALL what you see is most of the time 98% verified, and of course YES we want you to continue teasing us on news !Smiley

    Why tease?  Why not just spill the beans?

    Agreed! I'm sure the PIA (Porsche Intelligence Agency) won't try to track you down! Smiley

    If we get too greedy we will end up with nothing.

    I can understand Kreso needs to stay vague otherwise his source could be in trouble .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


     
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