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    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    I drop Richard on you...maybe I'm lucky, maybe not. Is there a Richard in your life?! Smiley

    Seriously, a first name?!

    I just wanted to make a point regarding the paranoia comment but I guess people need to choose themselves what they want to share (like for example a personal license plate on a photo) or a first name, which could be anyone on this planet and cannot be related in any way to that person, even using a lot of fantasy. Smiley

    I get your concern though, thank you.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    MKSGR:
    RC:
    MKSGR:
    680hp in a stock e63 is (very likely) a measurement error. One can be pretty sure that the German OEMs obey the laws very precisely after all the hype around the diesel software etc. A stock car with 680hp would be illegal to use on German roads...

    No measurement errors and if you don't tell... Smiley Smiley

    AMS, Autobild Sportscars, various tuners (Renntech, Brabus, Lorinser...), all cars had over 650 hp stock.

    No, it wouldn't be illegal to be used on German roads.

    Let me explain why: As long as the car is stock, no issues for the driver. For the manufacturer, actually the same thing. The most important thing is that the car meets the certified emissions standards. Excessive power? Not really a problem. There is that well known +/- 5% error margin but it doesn't really matter (unless you complain that your car doesn't have enough car, nobody will complain about too much power). From a certification point of view for the manufacturer, he needs to make sure that "most" of the manufactured cars meet the certified specs. So on paper, all cars could have 642,6 hp without any legal issues. Now count in the dyno error of let's say 2%, then we're already at almost 655 hp.

    Here comes the best part: The certification process for the engine in the E63 S AMG requires that compared to the certified 612 hp engine, any randomly chosen engine out of the running production has no more than 5% power. Now the certified engine for the certification process may have had already 642 hp. So the engine chosen out of the running production can have another 5% more power. Smiley

    As long as the car meets the same emissions standards, everything is OK. Top speed? It is limited to 300 kph anyway. Acceleration is not part of the certification process.

    Also, like I said before: If you don't tell on Mercedes, nobody will accuse them. Smiley Who is crazy and complains about more power? Other manufacturers? They do the same (BMW...look at the M5 for example).

    Never heard of any issues with engines with more power than claimed. Would be funny.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    I still don't believe it. Mercedes is very, very likely keeping a very strict eye on all regulatory issues these days. More likely wishful thinking of the owner Smiley

    P.S.: Just imagine some ecological activists reading your post, doing a test series and then officially accusing Mercedes of delivering illegal cars. Forget it. Will not happen.

    We have heard a lot of stories here about engines with much more power - Modern engine production is very precise. If you get 5% more or less something has gone wrong. Porsche allows only 4% difference - if more the engine will not get approval.  Do not know about AMG but I believe they build some of the best engines and for that, they have to be very precise.


    --

    AM


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    I explained with that "certification" example how this works. Power figures up to 680-680 hp measured on a regular dyno are without consequence for Mercedes AMG. 

    I try to post this in German (easier to explain for me):

    Der Gesetzgeber fordert, dass das laufende Serienfahrzeug maximal 5% vom Prüfmuster abweichen darf. Um dies zu gewährleisten, muss die Leistung des jeweiligen Prüfmusters ermittelt werden. Wie will man sonst den Basiswert bekommen, von dem die 5% Abweichung ausgeht?

    Es gibt allerdings keine Forderung, dass der bei der Typprüfung tatsächlich ermittelte Messwert auch der Zahlenwert ist, der in der Zulassungsbescheinigung einzutragen ist.

    Die gesetzlich zulässige Streuung von maximal 5% bezieht sich aber nicht auf die Herstellerangabe im Prospekt, sondern auf einen beliebigen Motor aus der laufenden Serie im Vergleich zu dem überprüften Motor aus der Typprüfung. Kleiner aber feiner Unterschied.

    Deshalb haben die Fahrzeuge mancher Hersteller eine deutlich höhere Leistung, als in den Prospekten oder Fahrzeugpapieren aufgeführt. Absolut legal, jedenfalls bisher. Smiley

    Dann kommen noch die Toleranzen des Prüfstands dazu, usw.. Im Endeffekt könnte also ein E63 S AMG theoretisch bis zu ca. 690 PS in Serie haben und die Toleranz wäre noch nicht wirklich überschritten.

    Wie ich schon sagte: Ich biete Markus gerne ein Treffen beim Schropp an, der hat einen modernen Prüfstand und dann können wir den E63 mal spaßeshalber testen. Du kannst dann auch vorbeischauen, dann können wir danach was Leckeres zu Mittag essen. Der Schropp ist in der Nähe von Tübingen (war bisher in der Nähe von Böblingen). Bin selber neugierig. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    RC:

    I try to post this in German (easier to explain for me):

    Der Gesetzgeber fordert, dass das laufende Serienfahrzeug maximal 5% vom Prüfmuster abweichen darf. Um dies zu gewährleisten, muss die Leistung des jeweiligen Prüfmusters ermittelt werden. Wie will man sonst den Basiswert bekommen, von dem die 5% Abweichung ausgeht?

    Es gibt allerdings keine Forderung, dass der bei der Typprüfung tatsächlich ermittelte Messwert auch der Zahlenwert ist, der in der Zulassungsbescheinigung einzutragen ist.

    Die gesetzlich zulässige Streuung von maximal 5% bezieht sich aber nicht auf die Herstellerangabe im Prospekt, sondern auf einen beliebigen Motor aus der laufenden Serie im Vergleich zu dem überprüften Motor aus der Typprüfung. Kleiner aber feiner Unterschied.

    Deshalb haben die Fahrzeuge mancher Hersteller eine deutlich höhere Leistung, als in den Prospekten oder Fahrzeugpapieren aufgeführt. Absolut legal, jedenfalls bisher. Smiley

    Dann kommen noch die Toleranzen des Prüfstands dazu, usw.. Im Endeffekt könnte also ein E63 S AMG theoretisch bis zu ca. 690 PS in Serie haben und die Toleranz wäre noch nicht wirklich überschritten.

    Wie ich schon sagte: Ich biete Markus gerne ein Treffen beim Schropp an, der hat einen modernen Prüfstand und dann können wir den E63 mal spaßeshalber testen. Du kannst dann auch vorbeischauen, dann können wir danach was Leckeres zu Mittag essen. Der Schropp ist in der Nähe von Tübingen (war bisher in der Nähe von Böblingen). Bin selber neugierig. Smiley Smiley

    now I,all of us, understand it, why don't  you always post in German?SmileySmileySmiley


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    This site is unbelievably tolerant, on most others (FChat in particular) any deviation from the thread subject  is  met with an immediate warning from a moderator, continuing so makes the "guilty" party a "troll" and a very prompt ban.

    Now, don't attack me for stating the facts......


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    Tight community, everyone sort of knows everyone for a long time. 

    Plus, we got RC at the top, who spams R8 stuff in every thread anyway!


    --

     

     


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    Whoopsy:

    Tight community, everyone sort of knows everyone for a long time. 

    Plus, we got RC at the top, who spams R8,AMG E63 stuff in every thread anyway!

    Fix it for youSmiley


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    And 991.2 GTS convertible and C63 coming soon with boring mini.  ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ‘


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    martini964:
    Whoopsy:

    Tight community, everyone sort of knows everyone for a long time. 

    Plus, we got RC at the top, who spams R8,AMG E63 stuff in every thread anyway!

    Fix it for youSmiley

    C'mon guys, I haven't mentioned the R8 for weeks... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    the-missile:

    And 991.2 GTS convertible and C63 coming soon with boring mini.  ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ‘

    Smiley Boring Mini and (surprisingly fun) 991.2 GTS Cab go away in October...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    absent:

    This site is unbelievably tolerant, on most others (FChat in particular) any deviation from the thread subject  is  met with an immediate warning from a moderator, continuing so makes the "guilty" party a "troll" and a very prompt ban.

    Now, don't attack me for stating the facts......

    We were debating if a strict moderation would be a good idea but I think that since we stopped politics discussions, we're good. If you guys still think stricter moderation would improve the user experience, we can do that.

    I wish this forum had a proper poll function, external polls can be "manipulated".

    Now back to topic please (seriously). We can discuss stuff like this in the Off Topic forum.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    Christian, were all adults (hopefully). No need to impose strict moderation. For the most part, if discussions tend to get hostile and insulting, moderators have stepped in. 


    --

    You have your way. I have my way. As for the correct way and the only way, it does not exist.


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    Will this new AMG be debadged, rebadged or left with its oem badging? Maybe E300 badges would be appropriate for your wife's occasional need to make night visits to patients homes, just a idea for street parking and other security concerns.


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    IF we gonna fake, why not put a E160 badge or something? 


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    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    Whoopsy:

    IF we gonna fake, why not put a E160 badge or something? 

    Smiley

    Germany is the country of de-badging, actually I think that we invented the de-badging back in the 80s. Smiley

    Yes, my E63 will be de-badged but I keep the V8 Biturbo 4matic stuff on the front fender. 

    Mostly because the car will be parked in front of the business and while it is pretty obvious it is an AMG, the de-badging is mostly for some particular (environmentally concerned) customers who don't know much about cars but know how to read. Smiley Smiley One of my best customers is in the Green party here in the city council, so... He knows my passion for cars and always says that "at least you don't drive a Diesel" Smiley but I really don't want to provoke too much.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    IF we gonna fake, why not put a E160 badge or something? 

    Smiley

    Germany is the country of de-badging, actually I think that we invented the de-badging back in the 80s. Smiley

    Yes, my E63 will be de-badged but I keep the V8 Biturbo 4matic stuff on the front fender. 

    Mostly because the car will be parked in front of the business and while it is pretty obvious it is an AMG, the de-badging is mostly for some particular (environmentally concerned) customers who don't know much about cars but know how to read. Smiley Smiley One of my best customers is in the Green party here in the city council, so... He knows my passion for cars and always says that "at least you don't drive a Diesel" Smiley but I really don't want to provoke too much.

     

    De-badging is pretty common in Belgium too. That said, most de-badged cars are actually 220d and so on. I guess people like to have a clean look. Many owners are de-badging their 991 for that reason only. They go for "porsche" or "carrera" only, which looks better IMO


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    amazon:
    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    IF we gonna fake, why not put a E160 badge or something? 

    Smiley

    Germany is the country of de-badging, actually I think that we invented the de-badging back in the 80s. Smiley

    Yes, my E63 will be de-badged but I keep the V8 Biturbo 4matic stuff on the front fender. 

    Mostly because the car will be parked in front of the business and while it is pretty obvious it is an AMG, the de-badging is mostly for some particular (environmentally concerned) customers who don't know much about cars but know how to read. Smiley Smiley One of my best customers is in the Green party here in the city council, so... He knows my passion for cars and always says that "at least you don't drive a Diesel" Smiley but I really don't want to provoke too much.

     

    De-badging is pretty common in Belgium too. That said, most de-badged cars are actually 220d and so on. I guess people like to have a clean look. Many owners are de-badging their 991 for that reason only. They go for "porsche" or "carrera" only, which looks better IMO

    Debadging in Switzerland has always been nearly a normal thing since the 80's . When I bought my Q7 it came debagged without me even asking for it .

    But here , it is usually the biggest model that get debagged ..... goes well  with Swiss discretion 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    Gnil:
     

    But here , it is usually the biggest model that get debagged ..... goes well  with Swiss discretion 

    My wife thinks that de-badging is stupid, why should she hide what she can afford but she is a doctor, nobody cares about her (well, sometimes they make subtle comments, especially when she/we are on vacation..."again?") but me, I'm a different story. 

    Same goes to the rep of my pharmaceutical dealer: He drives an older CLS63 (longtime dream, bought used). I asked him why he de-badged the car (longtime dream and all) and he told me his colleagues would burn him alive if they knew what car this is. He always claims it is just an AMG "styled" car, not the real thing. Smiley Smiley

    We also have the contrary here though: Many BMW 5 series or 3 series with a M5 or M3 badge or Mercedes cars with an AMG badge. I've seen a C40 AMG at some point (I think owner removed the 0 and added the AMG badge Smiley).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    RC:
    Gnil:
     

    But here , it is usually the biggest model that get debagged ..... goes well  with Swiss discretion 

    My wife thinks that de-badging is stupid, why should she hide what she can afford but she is a doctor, nobody cares about her (well, sometimes they make subtle comments, especially when she/we are on vacation..."again?") but me, I'm a different story. 

    Same goes to the rep of my pharmaceutical dealer: He drives an older CLS63 (longtime dream, bought used). I asked him why he de-badged the car (longtime dream and all) and he told me his colleagues would burn him alive if they knew what car this is. He always claims it is just an AMG "styled" car, not the real thing. Smiley Smiley

    We also have the contrary here though: Many BMW 5 series or 3 series with a M5 or M3 badge or Mercedes cars with an AMG badge. I've seen a C40 AMG at some point (I think owner removed the 0 and added the AMG badge Smiley).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    And yet these people get jealous or envious of those who have a real AMG or M-cars. 

    When you think about it, they are the ones who knows best what an AMG, RS or M car is. Most people are usually clueless as they are not interested in cars. 

    In the end, the "wealthy" crowd is de-badging because of those i***** and the "envious" are adding useless badges to show off but to whom exactly I don't know.


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    Smiley In the past, owners of nice cars were afraid of leftist groups. Nowadays they are afraid of so called "environmentalists". The idea is basically the same in both groups: If there is a nice car, give the owner something to think about. Smiley Smiley  Also, these idiots are looking for a reason to do damage to the car(s). One reason I always try to park without provoking people. Some sort of "minor provocation" (like not parking the car 100% straight) can already be an excuse for some people to damage your car. Crazy.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    problem is it looks weak at the back. needs real rear wheel arches like the old E500


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    996FourEss:

    problem is it looks weak at the back. needs real rear wheel arches like the old E500

    Are you referring to the E63? The funny thing is: You can barely tell the E class from the C class if you are looking directly at the rear, which sometimes is a good thing. It makes the car look smaller.

    Mercedes AMG had to make a compromise regarding the appearance of the car: It has to stand out vs. the normal E class but it cannot be too blunt, too aggressive.

    10-Mercedes-Benz-Fahrzeuge-AMG-E-63-S-4MATIC-1280x710-1280x710.jpg
    MercedesC63Edition1leak-010.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    800 hp now possible in the E63...Brabus. Incl. German TÜV. Top speed is still 300 kph (Mercedes apparently put some very restrictive software hurdles in place but Brabus promises to remove them soon, making 340-350 kph top speed possible). Cost for the engine tuning (new turbo chargers, reprogrammed ECU, different exhaust system) only: Around 25k EUR. Almost a bargain for that kind of power. 

    Brabus also had to reprogram the cockpit/speedo software because of the 330 kph top speed (limit) indicator.

    Autosalon-Genf-2018-Tuning-und-Exoten-1200x800-7e7ad6d79a92eb3a.jpg
    Autosalon-Genf-2018-Tuning-und-Exoten-1200x800-b6cba2afeb7f4a6c.jpg
    Autosalon-Genf-2018-Tuning-und-Exoten-1200x800-a3631cd1e0d4c9a8.jpg

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    Did you lease it for 1 yr or 2 yrs? How many years of warranty you get in Germany?


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    wantone:

    Did you lease it for 1 yr or 2 yrs? How many years of warranty you get in Germany?

    Three years lease with a two years warranty plus one year warranty extension.

    1599 EUR per month, incl. VAT, no down payment, car value is now almost 165k EUR.

    A good offer in my opinion, not super cheap (I've seen better with less popular models) but pretty much OK.

    Special lease through a business lease pool, only for businesses.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    15203504912111000 SEC.jpgno de badging for this ownerindecision


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    www.1000sel.com

    :)

     


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    Turbo:

    15203504912111000 SEC.jpgno de badging for this ownerindecision

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    RC:
    wantone:

    Did you lease it for 1 yr or 2 yrs? How many years of warranty you get in Germany?

    Three years lease with a two years warranty plus one year warranty extension.

    1599 EUR per month, incl. VAT, no down payment, car value is now almost 165k EUR.

    A good offer in my opinion, not super cheap (I've seen better with less popular models) but pretty much OK.

    Special lease through a business lease pool, only for businesses.

    It is very much the kind of depreciation you will get with such a car and you will be free without the hassle to sell it. 

    It is a good deal to be honest. Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: 2018 E63 from AMG is back

    It is a good deal but not as good as when manufacturers want to "kick out" the cars which don't sell. Smiley If you are waiting for the right moment, oh boy...what deals. Unfortunately these deals are often for not that popular cars but sometimes, there is something interesting available.

    Like that Audi S8 Plus lease deal offer I can't get out of my mind. Only 599 EUR (incl. VAT) per month without down payment. 1000 cars only but yes, I wanted one (was too late though). Smiley Got a 500 EUR offer for a RS3 sedan lately (car a customer ordered but won't pick up because he can't pay Smiley), it may replace my Mini JCW but the RS3 I currently drive (my R8 is in the workshop for the 2 year inspection and some chassis alignments) isn't really that great (brand-new  car), the sound is more muted than on previous cars I drove and the throttle response is also a bit weird (delayed). Not sure I want this. 

    IMG_1255.jpg
    IMG_1253.jpg
    IMG_1260.jpg

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


     
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