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    GTS vs S

    Hi all,

    I posted a few months ago about when the 7 speed manual might be available in the 981, and based on your (accurate) replies that it would not be soon, if ever, I avoided ordering a 981S. However, my 987S now has 106K miles (it is my daily driver) and I am getting to the point where I really must replace it.

    I think the Boxster GTS is, like most Porsche models, carefully calculated to fully extract the maximum cash out of their customers. However, it has a few features that I like and cannot obtain with the typical Boxster S (see below). As with my 987S order of nearly 10 years ago, I am looking for a relatively "pure" roadster experience. My spec would be:

    S model, manual transmission, rhodium silver, sport seats without adaptive, basic leather interior, basic 19" wheels, BiXenon, rain sensing wipers (I dislike the distraction of manually adjusting the wipers in intermittent rain), sport suspension (I have the regular suspension on Carrera Classic 19s now and find  it to be too soft), PTV, either chrome exhaust tips or PSE (I don't like the tarnished look the normal tips obtain after a few months). I have the chrome tips on my 987 and am comfortable with the sound it makes without PSE. Sport steering wheel, red seat belts. I'd order the least expensive audio that would allow me to attach my ipod.

    A few things I don't like about my 987S: the warning stickers on the sun visors (should have ordered the leather ones! and yes I have some OCD/aesthetic issues), silver gauges (would prefer the better visibility of typical black). Otherwise I have been very happy with it.

    Compared to the 981S, the GTS provides the PSE, an undetectable HP increase, black gauges but with a red tach (can I go all black as an option?), sport chrono (which I find ridiculous, does anyone use the sport chrono, it has a distinct "poser" feel to me? but I am intrigued by the sport+ option), the tinted lenses (seems too trendy) and the 20" wheels, (the brake disc sizes in the Boxster are inappropriately small for 19s, much less 20s, and I will not spend $7K on PCCB).

    I would do Zuffenhausen Euro delivery and I would probably have the car shipped to the west coast of the US to make a PCH run before taking it home to Texas.

    So, would you order the 981S and tolerate the silver gauges for ~$73K without PSE, ~$75K with PSE, or pay ~$79K for the GTS. My question really is, how much value would you put on the alcantara bits, the 15hp, the tinted lenses and larger wheels. Let me know what you think, but I will probably order a 981S.

    Thanks!


    Re: GTS vs S

    Definately get the GTS because GTS is only 8k euro (without tax in Germany) more expensive than S but you get:

    - Better/sportier looking front and bumpers

    - 20" Carrera S Wheels

    - PSE, PASM and Sport Chrono. Also -20 sport chassie is a no-cost option

    - 2 Way electrical Sports seats and Sport design steering wheel

    - Full Leather trim (including dashboard) + alcantara headliner

    - Bi-Xenon headlamps and smoked front-rear lights

    This all add up to 10k euro (without tax in Germany) and you have extra 15 hp / 10 NM (not much I agree) FREE.

    I think for someone who is looking for a Cayman S with sportier options (Sports seat, PSE, PASM, SC, 20" wheels, sport design wheels etc) going for GTS is a no-brainer. Only missing option is PTV which should be included in the package , IMO.

     

     


    --

    ONUR

    THE BEST CAR EVER smiley

    11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: GTS vs S

    mcdelaug:

    Compared to the 981S, the GTS provides the PSE, an undetectable HP increase, black gauges but with a red tach (can I go all black as an option?), 

     

    I think red tach is only if you select the GTS interior (lots of red stitching in the interior) .. in the UK, GTS interior option costs in excess of £2k,

    otherwise, standard GTS is black gauges.


    Re: GTS vs S

    pride355:

    Definately get the GTS because GTS is only 8k euro (without tax in Germany) more expensive than S but you get:

    - Better/sportier looking front and bumpers

    - 20" Carrera S Wheels

    - PSE, PASM and Sport Chrono. Also -20 sport chassie is a no-cost option

    - 2 Way electrical Sports seats and Sport design steering wheel

    - Full Leather trim (including dashboard) + alcantara headliner

    - Bi-Xenon headlamps and smoked front-rear lights

    This all add up to 10k euro (without tax in Germany) and you have extra 15 hp / 10 NM (not much I agree) FREE.

    I think for someone who is looking for a Cayman S with sportier options (Sports seat, PSE, PASM, SC, 20" wheels, sport design wheels etc) going for GTS is a no-brainer. Only missing option is PTV which should be included in the package , IMO.

     

     

    I fully agree. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: GTS vs S

    Without looking at the price I suggest you consider a PDK and at least test drive one. I was a die hard manual guy, but my latest M3 was the last car i will have with a manual (except racecars). I simply got so tired of it mainly due to speedbumps and heavy traffic. 


    Re: GTS vs S

    GTS seems like right choice for you. Pick some specific color, and you will be able to get some nice $$$ for your GTS when you decide to sell it kiss


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: GTS vs S

    tso:

    Without looking at the price I suggest you consider a PDK and at least test drive one. I was a die hard manual guy, but my latest M3 was the last car i will have with a manual (except racecars). I simply got so tired of it mainly due to speedbumps and heavy traffic. 

    I agree totally, the latest PDK is so good I wouldn't even think about a manual transmission any more.


    --

     

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: GTS vs S

    dreamcar:
    tso:

    Without looking at the price I suggest you consider a PDK and at least test drive one. I was a die hard manual guy, but my latest M3 was the last car i will have with a manual (except racecars). I simply got so tired of it mainly due to speedbumps and heavy traffic. 

    I agree totally, the latest PDK is so good I wouldn't even think about a manual transmission any more.

    +1

    PDK is great. Except for all the obvious advantages such as being faster, more efficient and more convenient, it is also more fun. Takes the driving experience to a level than manual cannot (even though the die hard fans often try to use the opposite as reason for keeping manual).


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: GTS vs S

    +2

    Mine has the manual and although the 6-speed is a very good transmission (better than the 991's 7-speed), I regret not going for a PDK. 


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: GTS vs S

    Thanks for all the great responses.

    I think it will be easy for me to decide once I see the GTS in person.

    I've driven the PDK multiple times,but it is does nothing for me. I prefer to have complete control, even at the expense of performance. I feel so strongly about the manual that I would buy a used car rather than be forced into something else. It is not rational, but purely emotional.

    Resale value is not a concern for me as I do not sell vehicles, I just drive them until they're completely consumed. That is why they have to be exactly what I want, since I will be driving it for 8 to 10 years.

    thanks again for all your comments!


    Re: GTS vs S

    mcdelaug:

    Thanks for all the great responses.

    I think it will be easy for me to decide once I see the GTS in person.

    I've driven the PDK multiple times,but it is does nothing for me. I prefer to have complete control, even at the expense of performance. I feel so strongly about the manual that I would buy a used car rather than be forced into something else. It is not rational, but purely emotional.

    Resale value is not a concern for me as I do not sell vehicles, I just drive them until they're completely consumed. That is why they have to be exactly what I want, since I will be driving it for 8 to 10 years.

    thanks again for all your comments!

    1. You cannot have complete control because of the lack of a (mechanical) handbrake

    2. PDK is actually faster than manual even if you shift manually, the only thing missing is the clutch pedal and you really don't need that to have complete control of the car

    I think this is just (another) case of US manualitis, a severe mental condition caused by the misconception that only manual is for real driving professionals. Smiley In reality, in many countries, manual is the standard shifting option and you see grannies and young women driving around with manuals, while real driving professionals in their Ferraris and Porsches or whatever are usually using different systems and not manual. Smiley

    Just saying...but please don't take it personally. It is a head thing, trust me. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: GTS vs S

    RC:

    I think this is just (another) case of US manualitis, a severe mental condition caused by the misconception that only manual is for real driving professionals. 

    RC- Like yourself, I am a paddle-shifter convert. I accept it is a superior system and I would pick it 99% of the times over a manual.

    However, I also have enjoyed manual gearboxes in sportscars and can understand those who suffer "manualitis."

    Some people simply enjoy the action of changing gear themselves. They prefer the slow and inefficient process of a manual gearshift vs. pulling a paddle. Some find the manual gearchange process as part of the "fun" of driving.

    I fully understand those people despite the fact that I have come to enjoy and accept paddle-shifters as the better solution.

     

     


    Re: GTS vs S

    I like manual gearbox for the additional interaction, and having more things to think about when driving .. the latter also acts as a natural brake on going too fast on public roads.


    Re: GTS vs S

    Manual vs PDK reminds me of skiers vs snow boarders but perhaps with slightly less hostility frown.  At least on Rennteam devil


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: GTS vs S

    the manuals now rev on the down shifts  - not sure if there is really anythng left in those manuals that is really that manual.

    take my down shifts away with these new cars and ?????????? heh - PDK and use the left foot for quicker braking imo


    --

    2013 Lotus Evora S/ 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual

    2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold //2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: GTS vs S

    CPA4S:

    the manuals now rev on the down shifts  - not sure if there is really anythng left in those manuals that is really that manual.

    take my down shifts away with these new cars and ?????????? heh - PDK and use the left foot for quicker braking imo

    Only in sport plus mode if you have the sport-chrono package.

    In normal/sport mode (or without sport-chrono) it's like any other manual.

    The 6-speed manual on the boxster/cayman is a great gearbox.


    Re: GTS vs S

    I freely admit the manual is slower, inferior technology from a previous era. It's also what I enjoy. So yeah, it's a head thing.

    I enjoy wearing a well made automatic, even though Quartz is more precise, and my phone has made a watch altogether unnecessary. I guess I have more than just manualitis, maybe it's some type of syndrome...

     


    Re: GTS vs S

    The 6 speed manual in the 981S is one of the finest manual gearboxes in any car anywhere. It's slower to use, more involving and not for everyone I will admit, but for those who like the art of driving to include heel and toeing, the feel of the complete lack of interference by software and the feel of palming the gear lever around the gate it's pure joy. And there is still the great satisfaction to be had from perfectly executing a shift up or down the gearbox completely smoothly. As has been the case for ever, in a fast car on a complex road it can get busier than a PDK car but the rewards are great.


    Re: GTS vs S

    Well said! wink


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: GTS vs S

    +1 Smiley


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: GTS vs S

    john999s:

    The 6 speed manual in the 981S is one of the finest manual gearboxes in any car anywhere. It's slower to use, more involving and not for everyone I will admit, but for those who like the art of driving to include heel and toeing, the feel of the complete lack of interference by software and the feel of palming the gear lever around the gate it's pure joy. And there is still the great satisfaction to be had from perfectly executing a shift up or down the gearbox completely smoothly. As has been the case for ever, in a fast car on a complex road it can get busier than a PDK car but the rewards are great.

    Agree, but if you want to heel and toe, there's one major fault in Porsche's setup and that's the brake pedal being situated too high, compared to the throttle. Maybe that most men don't have problems with it, but for me, heel and toe is not easy because of my small feet. I've had an Alfa Romeo Giulietta QV and that was much, much easier for heel and toe. My Boxster doesn't have the rev-matching feature BTW... That's introduced for MY2014.

    But, the gearbox itself is indeed very good and IMHO also better than the 7-speed of the 991... Still I wish I'd gone for a PDK though....


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: GTS vs S

    Why they don't use the 6 speed in the 991?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: GTS vs S

    reginos:

    Why they don't use the 6 speed in the 991?

    Its deliberately awful to wean customers off manual transmission Smiley


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: GTS vs S

    Heel and toe-ing was always difficult in Porsches, compared to other sports cars. Some of the older Porsches I've driven, which had non-assisted brakes, were better in this regard, as the brake pedal travel was greater.

     


    Re: GTS vs S

    I wish they did put the 6 speed back in the 991. For the number they sell it would make no real difference to emissions targets-one of the things that swayed me towards the 981s was the straightforward 6 speed box. If I go back to the C2/4S next time I am really in a quandary about the box. In any case it's really hard to find a demo 7 speed manual to try- and even if I did I suspect I might be disappointed.

    And the earlier 911's up to the 996 had closer spaced pedals to the extent some people complained :)


    Re: GTS vs S

    SuzyF:
    john999s:

    The 6 speed manual in the 981S is one of the finest manual gearboxes in any car anywhere. It's slower to use, more involving and not for everyone I will admit, but for those who like the art of driving to include heel and toeing, the feel of the complete lack of interference by software and the feel of palming the gear lever around the gate it's pure joy. And there is still the great satisfaction to be had from perfectly executing a shift up or down the gearbox completely smoothly. As has been the case for ever, in a fast car on a complex road it can get busier than a PDK car but the rewards are great.

    Agree, but if you want to heel and toe, there's one major fault in Porsche's setup and that's the brake pedal being situated too high, compared to the throttle. Maybe that most men don't have problems with it, but for me, heel and toe is not easy because of my small feet. I've had an Alfa Romeo Giulietta QV and that was much, much easier for heel and toe. My Boxster doesn't have the rev-matching feature BTW... That's introduced for MY2014.

    But, the gearbox itself is indeed very good and IMHO also better than the 7-speed of the 991... Still I wish I'd gone for a PDK though....


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     

    i think there is another fault - if you want to put it on sport the d@m thing does the downshift rev match etc. seems to have dialed out the fun of the stick?

     


    --

    2013 Lotus Evora S/ 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual

    2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold //2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: GTS vs S

    CPA4S:
    SuzyF:
    john999s:

    The 6 speed manual in the 981S is one of the finest manual gearboxes in any car anywhere. It's slower to use, more involving and not for everyone I will admit, but for those who like the art of driving to include heel and toeing, the feel of the complete lack of interference by software and the feel of palming the gear lever around the gate it's pure joy. And there is still the great satisfaction to be had from perfectly executing a shift up or down the gearbox completely smoothly. As has been the case for ever, in a fast car on a complex road it can get busier than a PDK car but the rewards are great.

    Agree, but if you want to heel and toe, there's one major fault in Porsche's setup and that's the brake pedal being situated too high, compared to the throttle. Maybe that most men don't have problems with it, but for me, heel and toe is not easy because of my small feet. I've had an Alfa Romeo Giulietta QV and that was much, much easier for heel and toe. My Boxster doesn't have the rev-matching feature BTW... That's introduced for MY2014.

    But, the gearbox itself is indeed very good and IMHO also better than the 7-speed of the 991... Still I wish I'd gone for a PDK though....


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     

    i think there is another fault - if you want to put it on sport the d@m thing does the downshift rev match etc. seems to have dialed out the fun of the stick?

     

    Mine doesn't do that... It's a MY2013 and doesn't have the rev-matching feature. I think it only became available from MY 2014. But i don't see the real fun of a stick anyways to be honest. I'd rather have a PDK, but that's a different discussion :)


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: GTS vs S

    GR:

    Manual vs PDK reminds me of skiers vs snow boarders but perhaps with slightly less hostility frown.  At least on Rennteam devil

    I do both and never got that but to each his own. Same goes to manual vs. PDK/etc.. I can drive manual but I prefer PDK. The reason is simple: With PDK I get both worlds, with manual I get only...manual. I don't care much about the clutch and since many modern cars don't have a classic handbrake anymore, the clutch is actually not really important for any additional fun in my opinion. I still think that many also miss the point of being able to shift PDK manually... Smiley It may not be the same as a stick but I guess switching from a Blackberry to a modern smartphone wasn't easy either. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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