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    Re: Tesla

    Everyone reviewed this car yesterday. Ford stock took a bit of a positive step. Nice 

    As a former Mustang owner I have mixed feelings about the name. Using the brands most powerful name regardless of logic sounds familiar.  (Turbo electric car anyone?)

    If you take into account my Mustang was a ‘77 Mustang II Cobra - a V8 Pinto - and I was 16 - it is a nice turn of events. 
    btw - that car had a crazy rebuilt 289 with a 750 double pumper. It would spin the little 12” slot mags in fourth gear at 100 mph.  We never stopped for cops. Perfect record until that one time!


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Everyone reviewed this car yesterday. Ford stock took a bit of a positive step. Nice 

    True, nice product.

    As a former Mustang owner I have mixed feelings about the name. Using the brands most powerful name regardless of logic sounds familiar.  (Turbo electric car anyone?)

    Agreed. I do not understand why they used the Mustang name, this could hurt the Mustang brand.

    If you take into account my Mustang was a ‘77 Mustang II Cobra - a V8 Pinto - and I was 16 - it is a nice turn of events. 
    btw - that car had a crazy rebuilt 289 with a 750 double pumper. It would spin the little 12” slot mags in fourth gear at 100 mph.  We never stopped for cops. Perfect record until that one time!

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Everyone reviewed this car yesterday. Ford stock took a bit of a positive step. Nice 

    As a former Mustang owner I have mixed feelings about the name. Using the brands most powerful name regardless of logic sounds familiar.  (Turbo electric car anyone?)

    If you take into account my Mustang was a ‘77 Mustang II Cobra - a V8 Pinto - and I was 16 - it is a nice turn of events. 
    btw - that car had a crazy rebuilt 289 with a 750 double pumper. It would spin the little 12” slot mags in fourth gear at 100 mph.  We never stopped for cops. Perfect record until that one time!

     

    I had a Mustang before too Smiley

    96 Mustang Cobra convertible. First series of the DOHC new engine. Ended up slapping a Vortech supercharger on it and side pipes. Fun car.


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    Re: Tesla

    I am glad to see the Mustang name on an electric vehicle. It gives the name a future and besides this time it is quite a bit more than just some attractive sheet metal fit over the mechanicals of a Ford Falcon (or Ford Pinto).

    I still remember when Ford planned to replace the RWD Mustang with a FWD two door hatchback. Anyone else remember the vehicle that became known as the Ford Probe? (which thankfully did not replace the Mustang)

    My only gripe on naming is the Mach E part of it. Mach E just has a cool factor of zero and that is on a scale of 1 to 10.


    Re: Tesla

    Billy Clay Ford’s near thirty reign at Ford is lackluster and this is yet another one of his save the planet ideas.  It’s amazing that after 117 years of building cars that the company still bungles product launches.  Whilst delivers have started for the Mustang Mach e, it will be interesting to observe if Ford has broken its streak of faulty launches. Even Volkswagen, which executes product launches, extremely well, the ID3 debut is not without issues. 


    Re: Tesla

    After watching various Mach E reviews on YouTube, I have to admit that the electric Mustang is not that impressive. My first reaction was "great car" but then, after watching these (sometimes very enthusiastic) videos, I kind of changed my mind. The competition is getting stronger and Tesla just came out with their Model 3 facelift (I think). The Mach E is a nice EV but it is neither special nor in any way special, for example when it comes to the price tag and/or performance.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    Instead of chasing difficult-to-enact FSD, Tesla and its owners is better served if the company spent the effort reducing the driver’s workload something akin to how advanced automation and flight control is lessening the workload for carrier pilot. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38268/why-the-navy-is-looking-to-end-carrier-qualifications-entirely-for-its-pilots-in-training. In this case, the automated flight control system doesn’t eliminate the pilot from the control loop, instead some parameters within the control loop are simplified.  An approach like this is more beneficial to the driver than the arduous goal of FSD.  
     

    In a somewhat related story, Range Rover is being sued in the States for its gear selector design said responsible for several deaths and injuries resulting from drivers exiting the vehicle when it wasn’t in park.  This is a classic example of what works in an engineering laboratory isn’t always well received or understood by the masses.  


    Re: Tesla

    Toyota CEO ( a very popular company around these parts now-a-days) Agrees With Elon Musk: We Don't Have Enough Electricity to Electrify All the Cars: https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/12/21/toyota-ceo-agrees-with-elon-musk-we-dont-have-enough-electricity-to-electrify-all-the-cars-n1222999


    Re: Tesla

    Spyderidol:

    Toyota CEO ( a very popular company around these parts now-a-days) Agrees With Elon Musk: We Don't Have Enough Electricity to Electrify All the Cars: https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/12/21/toyota-ceo-agrees-with-elon-musk-we-dont-have-enough-electricity-to-electrify-all-the-cars-n1222999

     

    That's the inconvenient truth that no one talks about. OR wanted to talk about. Infrastructure.

    Some of the Tesla fans around the world are discounting him for saying that cause Toyota doesn't currently makes EVs. While also saying there IS enough electricity at night. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Spyderidol:

    Toyota CEO ( a very popular company around these parts now-a-days) Agrees With Elon Musk: We Don't Have Enough Electricity to Electrify All the Cars: https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/12/21/toyota-ceo-agrees-with-elon-musk-we-dont-have-enough-electricity-to-electrify-all-the-cars-n1222999

     

    That's the inconvenient truth that no one talks about. OR wanted to talk about. Infrastructure.

    Some of the Tesla fans around the world are discounting him for saying that cause Toyota doesn't currently makes EVs. While also saying there IS enough electricity at night. 

     

    No one is even wanting to address the environmental harm in building out the necessary infrastructure for an EV based world.  The mining and refining of copper and aluminum is not without great environmental costs, but SCIENCE!


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Spyderidol:

    Toyota CEO ( a very popular company around these parts now-a-days) Agrees With Elon Musk: We Don't Have Enough Electricity to Electrify All the Cars: https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/12/21/toyota-ceo-agrees-with-elon-musk-we-dont-have-enough-electricity-to-electrify-all-the-cars-n1222999

     

    That's the inconvenient truth that no one talks about. OR wanted to talk about. Infrastructure.

    Some of the Tesla fans around the world are discounting him for saying that cause Toyota doesn't currently makes EVs. While also saying there IS enough electricity at night. 

     

    I can understand if you are using hydro power then there is no excess capacity at night. If you are using coal and nuclear power then there IS excess capacity at night. Also fewer megawatts going into oil refineries unless you are just adding BEV to the automotive fleet with no reduction in ICE vehicles.

    So long as these vehicles are charging at night and have capacity for their days usage, then it is pretty much all good. If you would need to supplement the overnight charge with additional daytime charging, you might not be the audience for an electric car.

    I really just see the BEV as a means of extending the lifespan of the ICE vehicle by taking a slice out of the demand for oil. Keeps petroleum affordable to the masses just a little bit longer.


    Re: Tesla

    Gladstone:
    Whoopsy:
    Spyderidol:

    Toyota CEO ( a very popular company around these parts now-a-days) Agrees With Elon Musk: We Don't Have Enough Electricity to Electrify All the Cars: https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/12/21/toyota-ceo-agrees-with-elon-musk-we-dont-have-enough-electricity-to-electrify-all-the-cars-n1222999

     

    That's the inconvenient truth that no one talks about. OR wanted to talk about. Infrastructure.

    Some of the Tesla fans around the world are discounting him for saying that cause Toyota doesn't currently makes EVs. While also saying there IS enough electricity at night. 

     

    I can understand if you are using hydro power then there is no excess capacity at night. If you are using coal and nuclear power then there IS excess capacity at night. Also fewer megawatts going into oil refineries unless you are just adding BEV to the automotive fleet with no reduction in ICE vehicles.

    So long as these vehicles are charging at night and have capacity for their days usage, then it is pretty much all good. If you would need to supplement the overnight charge with additional daytime charging, you might not be the audience for an electric car.

    I really just see the BEV as a means of extending the lifespan of the ICE vehicle by taking a slice out of the demand for oil. Keeps petroleum affordable to the masses just a little bit longer.

     

    The equation is not that simple. 

    Depending on where in the world one is, the primary supply of power could be hydro, coal, gas, wind, solar, nuclear, etc.

    Off those choices, gas and coal would be the easiest to dial up or down the power output. Nuclear is pretty much fixed. Hydro power is also easy to modulate, they just need to bring extra turbine(s) online or off line. With a reservoir behind the dam, the water pressure and volume is more or less constant no matter how many turbines are online when couple with a spillway, more turbines running means less water going around onto the spillway, less wasted energy. Solar and wind will always depend on nature.

    Right now there is still only a tiny fraction of EVs on the road when compared to normal cars. The market is still growing, and the current spare capacity from power plants can still support the extra load. But how long can that excess capacity last? Global car sales is projected to top 62 million cars for 2020. USA alone should be around 15 million. Say those 15 million will all be EVs. Each car will take ~9kW per hour on overnight charging at night at home. That's 135,000,000 kW, or 135 gigawatt of power per hour that goes on for hours at night. A typical nuclear plant only supply 1 gigawatt. Do we have 135 gigawatt of spare electricity output right now? Say all those cars aren't charged everynight, say maybe every 3 nights so each night only 1/3 of the load is needed, that's still more than 40 gigawatt of power.

    Residential transformers, like those that hang off a pole, are like 25-50kWs, and they supply 4-7 houses each. Which means if there are more than say a couple EVs charging there is going to be a risk of blowing that transformer. So those will need to be ungraded. 

    Those hanging transformers are also served by big box giant transformers somewhere in the neighbourhood, increasing the size of the hanging ones means bigger ones for these also. The lines might also need upgrading to support higher current. Residential areas aren't designed to be a high drain locations in the first place.

    Now for places that uses coal or oil plants, yes your car isn't burning hydrocarbons, but is it really gone? No, it got shifted to the power plant where it needs to burn extra hydrocarbon to meet the demand. And those powerplants don't have catalytic converters to clean the exhaust. It's just a not-in-my-backayrd thing. The problem of not using hydrocarbons hasn't been solved. 

    Even Elon sees this problem, and he has already asking for better infrastructure as he needs to sell more EVs. Infrastructure is lacking behind badly. Those improvements also don't come overnight, Most will need 5-10-20 years of advance planning, environmental studies, power source studies, etc. One don't start building out only when you hit the limit, one start planning for the future when it looks like the limit might be hit. 

     

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    So your concern is that all 15 million vehicle sales in the US will all switch from ICE to BEV.    Whose sounding like a Tesla fan today

    I already have a 20 amp circuit dedicated to a clothes dryer which I never run at night. There is another 20 amp circuit for the A/C which runs very little if at all during the night. I don't use the (50amp) oven, stove, or microwave during the night. No hair dryer either. Minimal lighting too.  I would probably have to charge 3 cars at night to match the daytime load or at least 2.

    I imagine a large number of multi vehicle households will make one of them electric. Mostly households which are homeowners since apartments will have possible issues.

    And coal does not easily adjust to demand. It is like nuclear power in that regard


    Re: Tesla

    I do not see, right now, how all those EV dreams worldwide will be fulfilled without nuclear power. 

    It is pointless to talk about fusion and whatnot right now, when people are already protesting wind turbines. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    RC:

    I do not see, right now, how all those EV dreams worldwide will be fulfilled without nuclear power. 

    It is pointless to talk about fusion and whatnot right now, when people are already protesting wind turbines. 

    At some point do keep in mind that we are talking about $10 of electricity per month or $.33 cents per day on average. It will be years if not decades for us to build enough batteries to get to the point where the current grid will not work ( if we don’t solve the problem by load balancing yet). 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Instead of chasing difficult-to-enact FSD, Tesla and its owners is better served if the company spent the effort reducing the driver’s workload something akin to how advanced automation and flight control is lessening the workload for carrier pilot. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38268/why-the-navy-is-looking-to-end-carrier-qualifications-entirely-for-its-pilots-in-training. In this case, the automated flight control system doesn’t eliminate the pilot from the control loop, instead some parameters within the control loop are simplified.  An approach like this is more beneficial to the driver than the arduous goal of FSD.  
     

    In a somewhat related story, Range Rover is being sued in the States for its gear selector design said responsible for several deaths and injuries resulting from drivers exiting the vehicle when it wasn’t in park.  This is a classic example of what works in an engineering laboratory isn’t always well received or understood by the masses.  

    So kinda like the autopilot I use all the time to drive on the highway which is free with every Tesla?  Have I mentioned that it is a great drivers aid if you are paying attention?  Of course one of the benefits, if you are working or FSD is that this free autopilot system is very good and getting better.  While the others may not be ‘wasting their time’ on FSD they also don’t have a system remotely close to what you describe, compared to Tesla. 
     

    in other news - if you simply open the door and get out, without turning off the car or putting it park, the Tesla goes into park and turn itself off. If you walk away it locks itself and goes into sentry mode unless you are at home or work and you told it not to lock the doors there. 

    If would help if people knew more facts about the car and maybe even tried one ☝️ 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    Instead of chasing difficult-to-enact FSD, Tesla and its owners is better served if the company spent the effort reducing the driver’s workload something akin to how advanced automation and flight control is lessening the workload for carrier pilot. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38268/why-the-navy-is-looking-to-end-carrier-qualifications-entirely-for-its-pilots-in-training. In this case, the automated flight control system doesn’t eliminate the pilot from the control loop, instead some parameters within the control loop are simplified.  An approach like this is more beneficial to the driver than the arduous goal of FSD.  
     

    In a somewhat related story, Range Rover is being sued in the States for its gear selector design said responsible for several deaths and injuries resulting from drivers exiting the vehicle when it wasn’t in park.  This is a classic example of what works in an engineering laboratory isn’t always well received or understood by the masses.  

    So kinda like the autopilot I use all the time to drive on the highway which is free with every Tesla?  Have I mentioned that it is a great drivers aid if you are paying attention?  Of course one of the benefits, if you are working or FSD is that this free autopilot system is very good and getting better.  While the others may not be ‘wasting their time’ on FSD they also don’t have a system remotely close to what you describe, compared to Tesla. 
     

    in other news - if you simply open the door and get out, without turning off the car or putting it park, the Tesla goes into park and turn itself off. If you walk away it locks itself and goes into sentry mode unless you are at home or work and you told it not to lock the doors there. 

    If would help if people knew more facts about the car and maybe even tried one ☝️ 

    First, starting with the Range Rover paragraph, this is not to infer that Tesla has the same issue but a demonstrative that  in man-machine interfaces, what works in the laboratory doesn’t also translate into an effective practice in the field.  
     

    Building on the above that man-machine interfaces don’t always work in the field because user inattention and lack of understanding/training, this relates to directly to Tesla.  Autopilot, in its development and execution, is inconsistent in its functional envelop with each release.  Compounding this critical issue is the lack of user training.  The system in the linked article requires continual training and practice by the pilot and its performance isn’t alter between training sessions.  In short, it enhances the pilot’s skills, not degrades it, unlike how Autopilot degrades a driver’s skills. 


    Re: Tesla

    Gladstone:

    So your concern is that all 15 million vehicle sales in the US will all switch from ICE to BEV.    Whose sounding like a Tesla fan today

    I already have a 20 amp circuit dedicated to a clothes dryer which I never run at night. There is another 20 amp circuit for the A/C which runs very little if at all during the night. I don't use the (50amp) oven, stove, or microwave during the night. No hair dryer either. Minimal lighting too.  I would probably have to charge 3 cars at night to match the daytime load or at least 2.

    I imagine a large number of multi vehicle households will make one of them electric. Mostly households which are homeowners since apartments will have possible issues.

    And coal does not easily adjust to demand. It is like nuclear power in that regard

     

    Haha, it is what it is, a realistic long term look.

    Tesla is what, selling 1/2 million EVs a year, On top of other makes, soon there will be a million new EVs a year and then more. With some states, countries, regions passing laws banning new car sales other than EV, the infrastructure limit will soon be reach. 

    Kicking the can down the road can only last so long. 


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    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:
    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    Instead of chasing difficult-to-enact FSD, Tesla and its owners is better served if the company spent the effort reducing the driver’s workload something akin to how advanced automation and flight control is lessening the workload for carrier pilot. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38268/why-the-navy-is-looking-to-end-carrier-qualifications-entirely-for-its-pilots-in-training. In this case, the automated flight control system doesn’t eliminate the pilot from the control loop, instead some parameters within the control loop are simplified.  An approach like this is more beneficial to the driver than the arduous goal of FSD.  
     

    In a somewhat related story, Range Rover is being sued in the States for its gear selector design said responsible for several deaths and injuries resulting from drivers exiting the vehicle when it wasn’t in park.  This is a classic example of what works in an engineering laboratory isn’t always well received or understood by the masses.  

    So kinda like the autopilot I use all the time to drive on the highway which is free with every Tesla?  Have I mentioned that it is a great drivers aid if you are paying attention?  Of course one of the benefits, if you are working or FSD is that this free autopilot system is very good and getting better.  While the others may not be ‘wasting their time’ on FSD they also don’t have a system remotely close to what you describe, compared to Tesla. 
     

    in other news - if you simply open the door and get out, without turning off the car or putting it park, the Tesla goes into park and turn itself off. If you walk away it locks itself and goes into sentry mode unless you are at home or work and you told it not to lock the doors there. 

    If would help if people knew more facts about the car and maybe even tried one ☝️ 

    First, starting with the Range Rover paragraph, this is not to infer that Tesla has the same issue but a demonstrative that  in man-machine interfaces, what works in the laboratory doesn’t also translate into an effective practice in the field.  
     

    Building on the above that man-machine interfaces don’t always work in the field because user inattention and lack of understanding/training, this relates to directly to Tesla.  Autopilot, in its development and execution, is inconsistent in its functional envelop with each release.  Compounding this critical issue is the lack of user training.  The system in the linked article requires continual training and practice by the pilot and its performance isn’t alter between training sessions.  In short, it enhances the pilot’s skills, not degrades it, unlike how Autopilot degrades a driver’s skills. 

    Just point out, in regards to the Range Rover, that Tesla takes extra steps to ensure safety. This is a tesla thread. Excuse the topical addition. 

    That sums up the autopilot, the way is use it as well. No one is assuming it is a car makers duty to teach you how to drive but repeated use will improve knowledge.  In the case of autopilot - it reduces fatigue and increases safety effectively when compared to cars which do not have it.  A simple look at the safety record and accident rate of Tesla’s prove this -  for a very quick mode of transportation. 

    Expecting a system which somehow makes you a better driver on top of everything else is a nice goal but I’ll take any progress in that direction vs none.  It might help to drive a Tesla down a highway and see how simple it is to use autopilot and how it works. Some of the assumptions here about how complex or dangerous it is are not accurate at all. 


    Re: Tesla

    Why do manufacturers provide new car purchasers with manuals and videos?  


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Why do manufacturers provide new car purchasers with manuals and videos?  

    Tesla comes without a manual. It is all on-line. Though, if after driving any car at all - if you can’t figure out the controls on a Tesla without a manual I would be worried.  Imagine a wheel, brake, gas pedal and turn signals. It is all right there. 
    How many people actually read manuals? For anything?  
    While the Tesla manual is fascinating and I have read more of it than my Porsche manuals (because it does s far more detailed) it is not vital like for some cars. There is, for instance, no oil change interval to be concerned about. Regular maintenance is like a brake fluid change every ten years and an air filter for the cabin every couple of years. 
    I appreciate your standing up for our president and country!  Thank you!  (Just a side note) Do yourself a favor and take a Tesla test drive. Sometimes I feel like I am describing sex to a virgin and trying to make clear it is not nasty and stinky. 


    Re: Tesla

    Where did one write the manual is limited to a paper bound artifact?  By the statements written above, it is evident you have no experience with U.S. tort law.  


    Re: Tesla

    Only two people in my life that read a car manual front to back, my sister and my father in-law. I just use as a last resort if I cannot figure it out, which on newer cars is more often than I would like.

    AJ

     


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Where did one write the manual is limited to a paper bound artifact?  By the statements written above, it is evident you have no experience with U.S. tort law.  

    Can you guess all the other things I know nothing about?  What difference does it make?  
    A more interesting on point observation might be that you still have to actually driven a Tesla. However I don’t consider it a character flaw like my lack of tort law. Lol. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    Where did one write the manual is limited to a paper bound artifact?  By the statements written above, it is evident you have no experience with U.S. tort law.  

    Can you guess all the other things I know nothing about?  What difference does it make?  
    A more interesting on point observation might be that you still have to actually driven a Tesla. However I don’t consider it a character flaw like my lack of tort law. Lol. 

    Posted here several times that I have driven a Model 3 Performance for an extended period of time.  Other than rapid acceleration, it is underwhelming.  You can search for the entire review from several months ago.  


    Re: Tesla

    I stand corrected - sometimes your comments make me forget. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    Where did one write the manual is limited to a paper bound artifact?  By the statements written above, it is evident you have no experience with U.S. tort law.  

    Can you guess all the other things I know nothing about?  What difference does it make?  
    A more interesting on point observation might be that you still have to actually driven a Tesla. However I don’t consider it a character flaw like my lack of tort law. Lol. 

    Oh well, since you asked...

    tenor-10.gif


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    Good one!


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Good one!

    Just messing with you... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    RC:
    Leawood911:

    Good one!

    Just messing with you... Smiley Smiley

    And, I am good with that as you can see. 😎


     
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