Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - 997S ring time - Page1

Mar 19, 2005 9:45:13 AM

Pink Panther: Pilot; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 363, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 4, 2005

997S ring time

Anyone know the fastest nurburgring lap time for the 997S ?

I am guessing just over 8 mins.

01/2004 Porsche Carrera GT (wet track, later 7:32.44) 7:40
08/2001 Tech Art Prosche GT street 7:43
07/2002 Pagani Zonda S 7:44
06/2001 Porsche 996 GT2 7:46
03/2004 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:47
02/1999 Porsche 911 GT3 Cup 7:49
06/2002 Lamborghini Murciélago 7:50
08/2003 BMW M3 CSL 7:50
06/2004 Mercedes SLR McLaren 7:52
12/2003 Lamborghini Gallardo 7:52
06/2003 Porsche 996 GT3 (facelift) 7:54
02/2004 Ferrari Challenge Stradale 7:56
06/2000 Porsche 996 911 turbo 7:56
05/1998 Lotec Porsche 911 Turbo 7:57
08/1999 Porsche 911 GT3 8:03
07/2000 Lamborghini Diablo GT 8:04
12/2002 Ferrari 575M Maranello 8:05
06/1998 Ferrari 550 Maranello 8:07
08/2002 Honda NSX R 8:09
10/1999 Ferrari 360 Modena 8:09
12/1997 Lamborghini Diablo SV 8:09
03/2001 Donkervoort D8 180R 8:10
10/1997 Chrysler Viper GTS 8:10
04/2002 Mercedes SL 55 AMG 8:12
05/1999 Lotus Esprit Sport 350 8:13
10/2004 Dodge Viper SRT/10 8:13
12/2004 BMW M5 E60 8:13
11/1997 AC Schnitzer BMW CLS III 8:16
11/2004 Aston Martin DB9 8:16
01/1998 Porsche 996 991 Carrera 8:17
01/2003 Aston Martin V12 Vanquish 8:17
10/2001 Porsche 996 911 Carrera (facelift) 8:17
06/1997 Ferrari F355 8:18
08/2000 BMW Z8 8:18
09/2003 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Com. Edition 8:18
09/2002 Audi RS6 8:20
07/2004 Mercedes C55 AMG 8:22
10/1998 BMW M Coupé 8:22
12/2000 BMW M3 E46 8:22
02/2001 Porsche 996 Carrera 4 8:23
07/2003 Aston Martin DB7 GT 8:23
05/2004 Subaru Impreza WRX STi 8:24
04/1999 Callaway C12 Coupé 8:25
10/2000 Audi RS4 8:25
11/1999 Mitsubishi Carisma GT EVO VI 8:25
11/2002 Mitsubishi Carisma GT EVO VII 8:25
05/2001 Mercedes SLK 32 AMG 8:26
10/2003 Nissan 350Z 8:26
03/1999 BMW M5 E39 8:28
05/2000 Mercedes CLK 55 AMG 8:29
11/2003 Audi S4 Avant 8:29
10/2002 Maserati Coupé Cambiocorsa 8:30
05/2003 BMW Z4 3.0 SMG 8:32
08/2004 Lotus Exige 8:32
09/1997 BMW M Roadster 8:32
12/1999 Porsche Boxster S 8:32
04/2001 BMW Z3 Coupé 3.0i 8:34
04/2004 Opel Speedster Turbo 8:34
02/2002 Brabus Mercedes C V8 Coupé 8:35
03/1997 BMW M3 SMG E36 8:35
03/2003 Porsche Boxster (facelift) 8:36
07/1999 BMW Alpina B3 3.3 8:36
02/2003 Volkswagen Golf R32 8:37
03/2000 Subaru Impreza GT Turbo 8:37
09/2000 Maserati 3200 GT 8:37
09/2001 Mercedes C32 AMG 8:37
08/1997 Honda NSX 8:38
12/1998 Brabus Mercdes CLK 5.8 8:38
12/2001 Mercedes SL 500 8:38
01/2000 Honda S 2000 8:39
04/2003 Morgan Aero 8 8:39
07/1997 Chevrolet Corvette C5 8:40
06/1999 Audi S3 8:41
09/1999 Aston Martin DB7 Vantage 8:41
08/1998 Audi S4 8:42
11/2001 Honda Civic Type R 8:47
07/1998 Jaguar XKR Coupé 8:49
07/2001 Renault Clio Sport V6 8:49
11/1998 Audi TT 1.8 T quattro 8:49
04/1998 Alpina B10 3.2 8:50
03/1998 Mercedes Benz C43 AMG 8:51
05/2002 Alfa Romeo 156 GTA 8:51
09/1998 Mercedes CLK 430 8:52
11/2000 Lotus Exige 8:52
01/2002 Volkswagen Golf GTI 8:54
04/1997 Porsche Boxster 8:54
09/2004 Mini Cooper S Works 8:55
05/1997 AMG Mercedes SLK 230 Kompressor 9:07
04/2000 Volkswagen Golf V6 4motion 9:09

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Mar 19, 2005 9:53:37 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 20826, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Pink Panther

Re: 997S ring time

7:59 for the -20mm 997S
8:02 for the PAMS 997S (on Sport Mode)
8:05 for the PASM 997S (on Normal Mode)

BTW, the M3-CSL, GT3RS and F365CS all used R-compound semi-slick tires in those laps.

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Mar 19, 2005 4:12:30 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12662, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 997S ring time

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
7:59 for the -20mm 997S
8:02 for the PAMS 997S (on Sport Mode)
8:05 for the PASM 997S (on Normal Mode)

BTW, the M3-CSL, GT3RS and F365CS all used R-compound semi-slick tires in those laps.

Finally a sport mode that works! (got it BMW?

)

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Mar 19, 2005 5:57:04 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 997S ring time

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
7:59 for the -20mm 997S
8:02 for the PAMS 997S (on Sport Mode)
8:05 for the PASM 997S (on Normal Mode)

BTW, the M3-CSL, GT3RS and F365CS all used R-compound semi-slick tires in those laps.

I am not knowledgeable enough about sports settings in general, but what do you think Carlos (and others) that difference of normal vs sports settings in only 3 secs?
Would you consider 3 secs a long time or not?
And how about the only 3 secs for the sport suspension, wouldn't the LSD provide a more significant advantage?
Maybe it's just me, but 3 secs sounds little.
Thanks.

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Mar 19, 2005 7:17:34 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 20826, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Futch

Re: 997S ring time

3 seconds between two cars in the ring is not much I agree, but within this context it is more significant becuase the only difference is the suspension setup between the two, everything else (tires, wheels, brakes, aerodinamics, HP, gearing, etc. except rear LSD) is exactly the same, and since the PASM is already a sport suspension and with a fairly stiff setting, then scratching 3 seconds is quite significant.

That said, for average drivers and outside the track the difference in performance is not going to be very significant IMO, but the difference in feel will be however. The quicker and more direct steering, the greater agility, the traction off slow corners or slippery surfaces, etc. will be the big difference between the two. This is what is more important for me about the -20mm, more than a few fractions of a seconds out of a chain of curves on a mountain road, and I don't mind ride stiffness at all.

Also another difference between the two for those that have tracking in mind, they will also benefit form the sportier -20mm, and which will also be modifiable with aftermarket upgrades unlike the PASM with all its software.

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Mar 19, 2005 8:08:16 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8631, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 997S ring time

"Also another difference between the two for those that have tracking in mind, they will also benefit form the sportier -20mm, and which will also be modifiable with aftermarket upgrades unlike the PASM with all its software"

You got me confused on that part.

Does the PASM drop the car another 20MM in go fast mode?
(ROW only??) I also thought the software for PASM is fixed and cant be changed by tuners.

Would it be better to get Sportchrono and NOT PASM and
get aftermarket suspension instead?

Is their really a noticable seat of pants difference
with PCCB, like lighter feeling or less understeer?

and lastly.....With PASM, is there still noticiable understeer like in 996's??

Thanx in advance !

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Mar 19, 2005 9:11:57 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 20826, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 997S ring time

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
"Also another difference between the two for those that have tracking in mind, they will also benefit form the sportier -20mm, and which will also be modifiable with aftermarket upgrades unlike the PASM with all its software"

You got me confused on that part.

Sorry, what I meant was that since PASM is linked to the car's computer brain, so you can't just remove the shocks and spring and replace with coliovers for example for track use, any modification may lead to electrical malfunctions and errors. Also modifications to the software that manages the dampning would be needed if you modify springs or shocks and would be complicated for a tuner to get a setup comparable to Porsche's IMO. So likely its best to leave it alone and not have "brave" tuners mess with it. OTHO the -20mm is a traditional suspension, that you can modify or change like coliovers, etc. and has a rear LSD which is not retrofitable to a PASM car becuase for one, the PSM of the PASM car may not be compatible with it. For the owner that is going to track the car a lot, the PASM may be limiting and not modifiable.

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Does the PASM drop the car another 20MM in go fast mode?
(ROW only??) I also thought the software for PASM is fixed and cant be changed by tuners.

Thats the Cayenne's PASM which is a completely different PASM (pneumatic). In the 997, the ride height does not vary, the only thing that varies is the dampning stifness of the shocks. Maybe you are right in the software issue, maybe its not modifyable, but I would think there is a way since Porsche may need to do it themselves if any problem arises or to improve it, so I would think they should left a way to do it, I don't know

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Would it be better to get Sportchrono and NOT PASM and
get aftermarket suspension instead?

Is their really a noticable seat of pants difference
with PCCB, like lighter feeling or less understeer?

Thats a good option, depends on what you intend to do with the car. The 997S only comes with PASM in US so that one is out of the question, but if you are getting a base 977 and you want a -20mm equivalent instead of PASM you could get the get Bilstein PSS9 coilovers for example (they are already available for the 997) intead of PASM (the base 997 has traditional suspension so no problems changing them). They are height and stiffness adjustable so it would be a much sportier handling 997 than with PASM if you set it up that way.

As to the PCCB's I have never had the oportunity to try them so can't comment on that personally. But if so, I'm sure there are cheaper ways to reduce understeer than the PCCB's and the same money could get you a longer way performance wise investing it in other areas of the car IMO. My opinion, they seem good from what I hear, but so a the standard brakes, they are not correcting a weak spot of the car (unlike a BMW and its brakes for example) and not worth the money they charge currently (this is subjecive depending on how much money you can spend too though), though I expect they will get cheaper as time goes by, maybe for the 998

Also the issues with early wear and expensive maintenace is not clear yet with the 2nd gen PCCB's specially with track use.

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
and lastly.....With PASM, is there still noticiable understeer like in 996's??

I don't know if I could venture into giving you an answer there, IMO there is less compared to the standard suspensions on the 996 but my experience with a RWD std. 996 was just one autocross long ago so can't remember that well. There is less understeer than my 996C4 with RoWM030 suspensions (the RoWM030 greatly reduces understeer compared to the std 996C4, but the std 996C4 has much much more underteer than the RWD version already) if thats any help.

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Mar 19, 2005 9:12:16 PM

ocnatv: Junior; Loc: ca, usa; Posts: 84, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 24, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 997S ring time

From what I have read the pccb makes a real difference in handling. I'm curious if those times are with that option and if not, what if any, the time difference in lap time would be.

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Mar 20, 2005 3:12:20 AM

Pink Panther: Pilot; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 363, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 4, 2005; Reply to: ocnatv

Re: 997S ring time

Thanks for the figures Carlos. I assume the figures are arrived at from a best lap time of several attempts and would guess laps in the same car to differ by as much as 5 seconds for a curcuit this big (ie 1% of 8 minutes).

Can anyone comment on this variation for same car same driver assuming the driver feels they didnt make any mistakes?

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Mar 20, 2005 5:35:56 AM

soltino: Newbie; Loc: L.A Ca.; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 9, 2004; Reply to: Pink Panther

Re: 997S ring time

Doesn't PASM in Normal Mode adjust its dampening according to how hard it is driven and the quality of the road surface?

tino

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Mar 20, 2005 9:45:40 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 20826, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Pink Panther

Re: 997S ring time

Quote:
Pink Panther said:
Thanks for the figures Carlos. I assume the figures are arrived at from a best lap time of several attempts and would guess laps in the same car to differ by as much as 5 seconds for a curcuit this big (ie 1% of 8 minutes).

Can anyone comment on this variation for same car same driver assuming the driver feels they didnt make any mistakes?

All three figures are form Walter Rohrl, he is a test driver for Porsche, so he would be pretty consistent doing those times with each car.

Quote:
soltino said:
Doesn't PASM in Normal Mode adjust its dampening according to how hard it is driven and the quality of the road surface?

tino

Yes its does, but the parameters of stiffness on which is plays with to addapt to the road are different in Normal than in Sport.

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Mar 20, 2005 12:24:53 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5864, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Pink Panther

Re: 997S ring time

Where's the time of that Donkervoort that blew the CGT away by 15 seconds?
(Uh-oh...I hear a can of worms being opened...hehe)

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Mar 20, 2005 6:23:16 PM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 997S ring time

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Where's the time of that Donkervoort that blew the CGT away by 15 seconds?
(Uh-oh...I hear a can of worms being opened...hehe)

yeah, and there have been two CGT times faster than the 7:40 listed (in the wet) - 7:32 & 7:28. the donkey car did 7:18.

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