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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    They really aren't converted PDK boxes - might share the same outer case, but otherwise not the same thing.

    The Manual clutch is not similar to ones used in pdk


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Ratio at my dealer are 20 % manual  .  And.... most of those 20% are trying to buy an R back lid 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Gnil:

    Ratio at my dealer are 20 % manual  .  And.... most of those 20% are trying to buy an R back lid 

    LOL but I'm not sure if you are joking or not Gnil. The R back lif thing: Is that true?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Targa Tim:
    Grant:

    Dealer in California claims well over 50% of GT3 orders with Manual gearbox...

    good to know that there are more people who know how to drive a real sport car in North America (flame suit on Smiley)

    In the US, it seems to be some sort of "honor" to be able to shift manually. In Europe, every granny can do it. Smiley Smiley

    Probably the reason why Europeans don't care that much about manual or not and Americans do. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Gnil:

    Ratio at my dealer are 20 % manual  .  And.... most of those 20% are trying to buy an R back lid 

    Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Gnil:
    Kobalt:
    Gnil:

    Ratio at my dealer are 20 % manual  .  And.... most of those 20% are trying to buy an R back lid 

    LOL but I'm not sure if you are joking or not Gnil. The R back lif thing: Is that true?

    Yes it is. Nearly all manual buyers want to try to delete the wing and will try to replace it with an R back lid. Not sure they will manage , but that s what they are trying to get. 

    And it makes sence    . For the track you want the best and fastest technology , so PDK and back wing  .

    if you go manual it is to drive it more on normal roads , so you want to get rid of the unessesary and attention seeking wing 

     


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Gnil:
    Gnil:
    Kobalt:
    Gnil:

    Ratio at my dealer are 20 % manual  .  And.... most of those 20% are trying to buy an R back lid 

    LOL but I'm not sure if you are joking or not Gnil. The R back lif thing: Is that true?

    Yes it is. Nearly all manual buyers want to try to delete the wing and will try to replace it with an R back lid. Not sure they will manage , but that s what they are trying to get. 

    And it makes sence    . For the track you want the best and fastest technology , so PDK and back wing  .

    if you go manual it is to drive it more on normal roads , so you want to get rid of the unessesary and attention seeking wing 

    Good point. Makes sense.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    If it is possible, would it be an option from Exclusive department?

    And what are the chances that this is officially allowed? The counterargument is always "not upsetting the downforce balance of the car", and I think removing the wing makes enough difference to argue that the car will not be tüv approved and/or not insured.


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Joost:

    If it is possible, would it be an option from Exclusive department?

    And what are the chances that this is officially allowed? The counterargument is always "not upsetting the downforce balance of the car", and I think removing the wing makes enough difference to argue that the car will not be tüv approved and/or not insured.

    Actually, it will be very difficult to get the R rear lid/retractable spoiler because similar to other occasions, Porsche will ask for a VIN number to be able to order that specific part. In the past, they even requested proof of need (accident, etc.). This is going to be interesting.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    I am also sure Porsche will do what ever it takes to avoid that people " delete the back wing ". 

    But I am also sure someone will find a way and  manage the  conversion. If at my local dealer people are already trying , I can imagine that it will be like that all over the world. 

    Maybe the best way to avoid a mess would be to make the option official 😁

    And I personally believe they have left the door open ....


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Gnil:

    I am also sure Porsche will do what ever it takes to avoid that people " delete the back wing ". 

    But I am also sure someone will find a way and  manage the  conversion. If at my local dealer people are already trying , I can imagine that it will be like that all over the world. 

    Maybe the best way to avoid a mess would be to make the option official 😁

    And I personally believe they have left the door open ....


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     

    We still have no new information on the Touring Package, so... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Interesting things from the German 991.2 GT3 market:

    1. 2017 production seems to be sold out, only 2018 deliveries are available now (and since 2018 allocations aren't clear yet, some people could end up with...none).

    2. PTS is available now for ordering.

    3. Many dealers seem to "select" GT3 customers based on previous purchases (Porsche cars) and how long these customers kept their cars.

    4. Many (all?) dealers seem to offer customers a contract which prohibits the resale of the car within 12 months!


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    RC:
    Targa Tim:
    Grant:

    Dealer in California claims well over 50% of GT3 orders with Manual gearbox...

    good to know that there are more people who know how to drive a real sport car in North America (flame suit on Smiley)

    In the US, it seems to be some sort of "honor" to be able to shift manually. In Europe, every granny can do it. Smiley Smiley

    Probably the reason why Europeans don't care that much about manual or not and Americans do. Smiley

    If I enjoy walking I won't be happy with a wheelchair that does it for me. I also prefer cooking over going to restaurants and mowing my own yard, cleaning my own home and cutting my own hair. I'm a manual kind of guy.  I love to drive and shift. As someone who found the new 911 Turbo boring it seems the PDK may have been part of the issue.  Some get their kicks hearing a big v10 others prefer to speak softly and shift a stick. 

    At any rate there is no need to ridicule a preference to shift manually with an actual clutch on a car forum.  I respect your choice to shift your PDK 'manually'. If you prefer doing that and others prefer a clutch under their foot I don't see the issue. From a resale point I think the manual is a no brainer. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    You misunderstood me: I just tried to point out that manual is special in the US, while it isn't in Europe. I talked to many car owners in the US and many are proud that they can use a "stick". Try that in Europe...basically anyone can shift with a manual tranny. yes Different car experiences, different mentalities, nothing else.

    In the sportscar community over here in Germany, there are also many who favor a manual tranny. Not as many as in the US maybe but still...


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    SmileyRC:

    You misunderstood me: I just tried to point out that manual is special in the US, while it isn't in Europe. I talked to many car owners in the US and many are proud that they can use a "stick". Try that in Europe...basically anyone can shift with a manual tranny.  Different car experiences, different mentalities, nothing else.

    No worries. I would bet that percentage wise more Americans drive than Europeans.  Not certain Americans are any less likely to know how to drive a manual. The fact that more Americans choose manuals contradicts your thinking a bit but I am not aware of the stats. The logic behind your reasoning seemed a bit demeaning.  As an Austrian maybe I'm defending American drivers too much. They do tend to drive sloppy and have little lane discipline. On that we can agree!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Grant:

    They really aren't converted PDK boxes - might share the same outer case, but otherwise not the same thing.

    The Manual clutch is not similar to ones used in pdk


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    Thank you Grant!  That helps explain it  

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    In the US most cars are automatic and has been historically so many people never driven a manual, so driving a sportscar with a manual is considered a sign of knowing how to drive and being more experienced and it has a good image. In Europe most european cars since always used to be manual because it was cheaper, consumed less fuel, etc. so everyone learns to drive with a manual first and its no big deal, there is absolutely no association with manual tranny and being more experienced or being a better driver, shifting manually is like using a manual handbrake, everybody can do it, and because you have to pay extra for automatic trannys and manuals are cheaper (and econo carsvarevall manual) they are looked as an improvement over the manual.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Carlos from Spain:

    In the US most cars are automatic and has been historically so many people never driven a manual, so driving a sportscar with a manual is considered a sign of knowing how to drive and being more experienced and it has a good image. In Europe most european cars since always used to be manual because it was cheaper, consumed less fuel, etc. so everyone learns to drive with a manual first and its no big deal, there is absolutely no association with manual tranny and being more experienced or being a better driver, shifting manually is like using a manual handbrake, everybody can do it, and because you have to pay extra for automatic trannys and manuals are cheaper (and econo carsvarevall manual) they are looked as an improvement over the manual.

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Good way to put it. Thanks Carlos. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    RC:

     

    3. Many dealers seem to "select" GT3 customers based on previous purchases (Porsche cars) and how long these customers kept their cars.

     

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    My dealer told me the same . They received instructions to ' select' customers much better then they did with the RS and that the final decision relies now at Porsche , not at the dealer 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Leawood911:

    Thanks. I guess AP just dropped the clutch a couple times in that video. Since these are basically converted PDK transmissions I wonder how durable the clutch is and what the replacement cost is. 

    true only for the 7 speed manual gearbox in Carrera models


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Mate I lived 11 years in NY and have to say the average American doesn't have the faintest idea how to drive a manual ... can't tell you how many times I heard "I can't drive stick". But that is cool b/c the standard transmission on sale is an auto. That said, it is very nice to continue to see the appreciation the driver focussed community has for manuals, which is a positive thing and underscores a love of driving. It was the US market that got the Manual put into the V10 M5 a few years back which was a great achievement and something Europe was unable to do. Long live manuals (and n/a engines)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    For the first 3 to 5 years the manual GT3 will trade at a discount to the PDK ones. As the performance edge of the car will fade into oblivion, manuals will eventually have a premium due to the relative rarity and nostalgia, 7 to 10 years horizon.

    Personally I think that manual make no sense in this decade and even less on a performance sport car. My 612 manual is worth twice the price of the F1 but that's because in today's world F1 tech is obsolete and there are only 200 manual 612 in the world. To think the same will happen when there will be over a thousand manual GT3 plus all the older ones around is far fetched.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Can't drive manual?  Check this out:  http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/03/cleveland_carjacking_suspect_c.html


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    "The teen pointed the gun at the 23-year-old man while the man tried to explain how use the gears"

    ^ Have gone thru the process of learning my kids to drive I fully understands the difficulties for both parties in this incident.

    I guess driving a stick shift in certain areas of the US can help you keep your car :-)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    99% of the smaller cars here are stick , which means all younger drivers, low income and people who do not spend on luxury or  higher middle segments cars , drive stick . From 18 year old girls to 80 years old granny . And this is valid in all of Europe .  STICK IS NO BIG DEAL .  When you do your driving licence you have to do it with a stick, otherwise you get a special mention on your drivers license that prohibits your from driving stick , so no one goes through the test with an automatic . 

    The younger generation is much more fascinated by double clutch because of the newer technologie and considers it much '' cooler '' then the old stick .

    PDK does not implement you can't change gear when you want to . Put it on manual, and you decide when to change gear or not . Just like manual, but without having to push on a clutch . 

    Dont' get me wrong, I like stick better on public roads, because It gets too easy and boring with PDK when you can't push the car, but once on a track, with the level of speed todays' cars are able to reach, I get lots of satisfaction from the PDK , as it allows me to go faster and gives me a thrill .


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    And on a side note regarding warranties :  

    RC mentioned a few times that one looses all warranty if you mod anything on your Porsche . Until now this was not the case here , as the dealer was always trying to arrange things with the customer .

    Today my dealer told me this is not the case anymore . Change your exhaust on a Porsche and you loose your warranty . Even non official rims can get you into trouble heart  It is getting insane . No one wants anything that is out of the box. They all get scared of liabilities . No one wants an uncontrolled environment anymore ....... everything has to be standardized  mail 


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Gnil:

    And on a side note regarding warranties :  

    RC mentioned a few times that one looses all warranty if you mod anything on your Porsche . Until now this was not the case here , as the dealer was always trying to arrange things with the customer .

    Today my dealer told me this is not the case anymore . Change your exhaust on a Porsche and you loose your warranty . Even non official rims can get you into trouble heart  It is getting insane . No one wants anything that is out of the box. They all get scared of liabilities . No one wants an uncontrolled environment anymore ....... everything has to be standardized  mail 


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     

    Tell me about it... I wanted to have my OEM summer rimes painted in black. Unless they don't do it to manufacturer specs in the specific color, they cannot and will not mount the rims on my car. Also, I could loose the warranty. The reason is simple (and understandable, though annoying): If the rims are not painted correctly (meaning that where the holes for the bolts are, there is no thick paint allowed because the rims could move), there could be issues for the AWD and safety issues. Long story short: I have to let the dealer do it and it costs quite a lot.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    You really want to pay a lot of money to have your rims painted black when theyare already dark grey? Saw a white Audi with black rims today, not only it didn't look good but the guy was driving recklessly... The image the black rims project here is not a good one.

    USA doesn't want to become like the socialist Europe Smiley


     
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