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    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The 8C was also supposed to be a halo model. However, it came and went and no one talks about it anymore.

    What Alfa need to do is to build  credible rivals for Golf, TT, and 3 series. Sort of well engineered, attractive cars with Italian style and passion. I know easier said than done!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:

    The 8C was also supposed to be a halo model. However, it came and went and no one talks about it anymore.


    Well, not quite. Those who own one, praise it to the skies. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Rossi:
    reginos:

    The 8C was also supposed to be a halo model. However, it came and went and no one talks about it anymore.


    Well, not quite. Those who own one, praise it to the skies. Smiley

    Perhaps, but it didn't have the marketing impact for the Alfa Romeo brand it was hoped it would have.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:
    Rossi:
    reginos:

    The 8C was also supposed to be a halo model. However, it came and went and no one talks about it anymore.


    Well, not quite. Those who own one, praise it to the skies. Smiley

    Perhaps, but it didn't have the marketing impact for the Alfa Romeo brand it was hoped it would have.


    Agreed. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    There was nothing to impact at the timesmiley

    All they make now are Golf and Polo rivals

    They need a 3 series rival with bespoke rwd chassis and new V6 biturbo from Quattroporte priced below 335i

    I'd take the risk and buy it.Again


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The 4c have sense if they are willing to start a new era of cars , real alfas, if not they will die soon  and vw will buy them and start making the real alfas!!!!!

    so smart are italians!


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    If VW bought Alfa, Italians would benefit because more jobs would be created in Italy. For the worker it is immaterial whether the capital is VW's or Agnelli's.

    The problem with Alfa is that their more recent cars showed promise (156, Brera, GT, GTV, Mito etc),  but they were never completely developed and engineered. They have strengths but also prohibitive weaknesses that don't allow them to compete against the German brands. I don't know if this is a matter of lack of resources or the Italian mentality of superficial corner cutting.

    If VW did to Alfa what they had done to Bentley, Lamborghini and Skoda, the legendary Italian marque would make a strong comeback.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    xander71:

    Almost everything in italy sucks...its the situation right now!!

    i dont get why they did not make the alfa diva???!?!?!?!

    Because at the helm of italian car industries there are no car guys (alla Piech) and we have plenty of financers/bankers running those companies (the exception being Ferrari) plus a national producer (Fiat/Alfa/Lancia) that was on a life support from the government in the last 30 years.  While on the contrary the German premium manufacturers (specially Bmw and Audi) made an amazing leap forward in the last 30 years. Lancia and Alfa Romeo instead went totally backwards.  The last more or less proper Lancias were the Thema and the Delta of the eighties , same applies to Alfa Romeo with the 75 and the 164 (V6) . That was still the time when a car company was run by car guys (i.e. Vittorio Ghidella among the others who was also the father of the Fiat Uno which was presented in Cape Canaveral exactly 30 years ago) and when racing programs were in place in rally  (Fiat 131 Abarth,Lancia Stratos, 037, S4, Integrale) and also in F1 , Alfa Romeo competed in F1 (from 79 to 85 as a team and supplied engines until 1988) but without repeating the glorious pre-war and post war successes.

    The only way for an Alfa come back (or better said rescue) is to let Piech buy it (and drop Seat in the process)  .  Lancia is gone forever I am afraid (look at the 1955 Aurelia B24S Convertibile and compare it to today`s horror of rebadged Chrysler called Lancia Flaminia), this is the automotive bottom in my opinion. 

     


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Alfa and Lancia invented the sports saloon and the affordable coupe/roadster at a time when Audi practically didn't exist and BMW made crude and bad looking cars. Think of Fulvia, Flavia, GT Junior, GTV, Duetto, Spider, 1750/2000 Berlina etc. etc.. Cars everybody loved to look at and to drive.

    The German brands are beyond reach now and any money spent by FIAT to resurrect Alfa, will be wasted. If you cannot beat them join them....as a VW subsidiary.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:

    Alfa and Lancia invented the sports saloon and the affordable coupe/roadster at a time when Audi practically didn't exist and BMW made crude and bad looking cars. Think of Fulvia, Flavia, GT Junior, GTV, Duetto, Spider, 1750/2000 Berlina etc. etc.. Cars everybody loved to look at and to drive.

    The German brands are beyond reach now and any money spent by FIAT to resurrect Alfa, will be wasted. If you cannot beat them join them....as a VW subsidiary.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Smiley However, I think that the Chrysler approach shows that Fiat has reached out to the US and not Europe, which is kind of strange. Maybe Chrysler will help them to gain ground again in Europe but I don't quite see how. Smiley

    VW is a great company with great brands but I don't think it would be good for us customers if VW gets even bigger. VW needs healthy competition, otherwise we are going to see crappy products for big money. Piech loves cars but he is no idiot and he surely loves money as well. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The technical specs are just incredible

    895 kgs, 0-100 4,5 and price around 50k

    real mini supercar


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Don't forget Paulo Cantarella's tenure at the top of Fiat. He took over a basket case auto division and really tried to inject some Italian passion back into the company and championed the use of platform engineering which Piech picked up on and ruthlessly perfected within the VW. He knew that good design sells and recognised that Italian brands had a strong history and a lot of goodwill from customers outside of Italy but that the products needed to be far better built and much more reliable. From the humble Tipo Cantarella managed to spin off an amazing amount of diverse cars that allowed a brief renaissance for Alfa, Fiat and Lancia using a very modest budget in automotive terms. He managed to bring us the Fiat Barchetta (Punto underpinings), Fiat Coupe, Alfa GTV and Alfa spider (all Tipo based). Yes they were all compromised in some ways due to the limited development budgets but they brought back affordable Italian sports cars. The tragedy was that the success of some of these cars was not built upon sufficiently and the current day model ranges lack any replacements for these cars. The Abarth brand should be being used on a modern version of the Fiat Coupe and Barchetta yet is slowly dying by relying upon customised variants of the 500 to keep it alive. Once again Fiat are risking turning Abarth into a trim level as opposed to a stand alone performance brand.

    Cantarella also laid the foundations for the resurgence of Maserati with the 3200. Again it wasn't pefect at launch but it gave the company a much need dose of style and bought the time necessary to get Ferrari involved to turn the company's fortunes around.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Are these headlights going into production ? They look horrible angry


    --

    997 GT3 3.8


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Very good example how to spoil a great concept.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    xander71:

    The technical specs are just incredible

    895 kgs, 0-100 4,5 and price around 50k

    real mini supercar

    895 kg is dry weight.


    --

    997 GT3 3.8


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Gauss:

     

    Are these headlights going into production ? They look horrible angry--

    997 GT3 3.8

    I like them, assuming it's real carbon fibre. It's different and fresh. Smiley


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    993Targa:
     

    I like them, assuming it's real carbon fibre. It's different and fresh. Smiley

    carbon fibre is optional. Here are the standard ones :

    headlights.png


    --

    997 GT3 3.8


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    They look like mouth ulcers or cold sores angry


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Soft toy of the designer... smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    another over designed, over featured car, with too many juxtaposed design 'highlights'.

    where is the stunning elegance, the purity and the flowing designs of the past?

    in the 21st century, car design has turned into an exercise to add as many 'features' as possible.

    4C will date quicker than a crate of apples stuck in an unrefrigerated lorry in high summer in the Nevada desert.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    sfo:

    another over designed, over featured car, with too many juxtaposed design 'highlights'.

    where is the stunning elegance, the purity and the flowing designs of the past?

    in the 21st century, car design has turned into an exercise to add as many 'features' as possible.

    4C will date quicker than a crate of apples stuck in an unrefrigerated lorry in high summer in the Nevada desert.

    Alfa Romeo wants to attract young buyers with this car but what may work on a short term run, could ruin this car for future generations. What a shame.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Those headlights are awful. Yes, insect eyes or cold sores, no thanks. The positioning of the side mirrors looks awkward too.

    Really like the concept. Not interested in the strange replacement. 


    --
    2008 Boxster S

    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    280px-Alfa_SZ_AutoItalia_Brooklands_May_2012_THP_7123.jpg

    ...Anybody remember the SZ? I can't fathom why some Alfas are so graceful and then there are these. cheeky


    --
    2008 Boxster S

    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:

    Alfa Romeo wants to attract young buyers with this car but what may work on a short term run, could ruin this car for future generations. What a shame.

     young buyers don't have the money to buy the 4C ..


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    sfo:
    RC:

    Alfa Romeo wants to attract young buyers with this car but what may work on a short term run, could ruin this car for future generations. What a shame.

     young buyers don't have the money to buy the 4C ..

    It depends: Who buys the A45 AMG or the 135i? Most guys I see driving around in the M135i are usually between 25 and 35, I never see older guys in these cars in Germany.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The SZ was styled by Zagato who nearly always go for polarising designs. If Alfa had wanted a "pretty" car they'd have given the styling job to Pininfarina but they wanted a radical, headline grabber and Zagato certainly delivered that. I've always liked the SZ because it was wilfully different and used some interesting materials. It was ahead of it's time in many respects. Even today some 20+ years after it's launch it still looks contemporary because it is so different to any other car.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    awai08:

    280px-Alfa_SZ_AutoItalia_Brooklands_May_2012_THP_7123.jpg

    ...Anybody remember the SZ? I can't fathom why some Alfas are so graceful and then there are these. cheeky


    Sorry to say but... graceful is the last word that I would associate with the SZ. Smiley

    Yes, the production version of the 4C is a shame especially compared to the concept car. I am curious to see the car in real but those changes do look somewhat irritating. The specs look impressive though, the concept of a lightweight sportscar with sufficient power and a reasonable pricetag looks appealing, especially since that market niche has been occupied by the Lotus Elise and its variants so far. 


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:
    sfo:
    RC:

    Alfa Romeo wants to attract young buyers with this car but what may work on a short term run, could ruin this car for future generations. What a shame.

     young buyers don't have the money to buy the 4C ..

    It depends: Who buys the A45 AMG or the 135i? Most guys I see driving around in the M135i are usually between 25 and 35, I never see older guys in these cars in Germany.

    M135i is £30k in the UK, the 4C will be £52k .. not the same market


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The basic Elise is almost half the price in the UK and surely Alfa want to attract more than the dedicated minority who like that car. And like all light cars with smaller engines, its not going to be that fast at the top end.  Its also horribly wide, which slows you down in the real world.  I can't see any reason to get this over a Cayman S (same price with PDK) other than to be wilfully differrent.  Its an opportunity missed IMO.


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


     
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