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    Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Since Boxster has no turbo version, I ain't sure whether the similarly setup chassis/MR versioned Cayman will have a turbo version. If it does (good news to those but I think my 2 cents is the "wishful thinking type of deal"), the whole 987 line should have turbos so we will also see Boxster Turbo and Turbo S. I ain't sure about what the development directions of the Cayman and 987 line would be like in the next two years now that the Cayman engine/setup/parts are more or less being implemented on the 987s. Everything else being equal (there maybe magazine tests on the new versions), it is very hard to tell the performance apart except for torsional regidity (but that's always the case even for a 430 and 430 spyder or carrera s and carrera s cabrio but my feeling is that generally, people never take a cabrio seriously and will never use it as a benchmark test in a sports car back to back test). Also, a few has expressed that they had been had by PAG (matter of perspective) but we cannot deny that many think that PAG's marketing department did a great job in naming the MR coupe CAYMAN. Also pricing strategy was also ingenious and they left it to the consumers to believe what they would like to believe given the marketing info.

    I personally think that Porsche needs to really start tweaking its engine to give it a bit more power. A 987 is considered to be a legacy down the 550 spyder line and the last time I looked, I thought it was a sports coupe. Now for something that's a sporTY coupe and not a sports coupe like 335i (not built from ground up as a sports car but a sedan based car), it already has >300 hp I believe 306 to be exact. The M3 was way past 300 in the last generation and now into the 400 reigns with M5/6 >504 hp, I really see that there really isn't a reason why any sports coupe (everything else being equal) should not be AT LEAST 300 hp to keep up with the competition. Even the base carrera these days is considered a bit underpowered compared to the POWER HUNGRY AMG and M series. I mean yes we can all keep saying that a Porsche handles better because it is RR, MR with better brakes... it is only a matter of time before Porsche has to face the competition head on. Although the new M3 hasn't come up, I would tend to put my vote on the M3 for lap times if we were to lap the Cayman, Boxster S and even the base carrera against the FR M3.

    What I see as a logical path now (rumours I heard around town were for the cayman to be into the 300 + range most likely tweaking out the 325 hp now belonging to the carrera with the whole flagship being moved up in terms of power) would be for the Cayman in 2008 to get a minor power tweak while giving the 997 a facelift after 4 years as well as more power. Inputs? I really don't think any Porsche these days should be <300 hp and I see that in another year or two, we will see no lineup with hp with a 2 as the first letter.

    Yes those that kept saying if you wanted cheap hp buy an EVO/STi or Z06 but PAG still has a reputation to maintain. Even if it is not being sucked into this power race, it does have to continue a legacy to make any flagship cars PERCEIVED as at least being FAST. Yes Corvette can outrun or be on par with a TURBO but a TURBO still has to have enough to give it a good run for its money so why can't the Cayman be into the mid 300 range right? In fact, if the next Cayman can be 355 like the Carrera S, I am going in right away to put down my money (with or without DSG and of course PDK would be perfect for HK)

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views &amp; inputs pls.

    ever since the beginning of the 986/996 line, there have been stories of turbo boxsters and even V-type engined 911s
    i have it from VERY reputable sources that this is true
    porsche is always testing to see what can be done with various configurations
    however, what can be done and what marketing will allow are 2 very different things
    marketing will most likely not allow any racing by types lower on the scale than the 911 and will most likely not allow any model be faster than their cash cow (911)
    we may be suprised by porsche (like we were with the intro of the CGT), but it seems very unlikely that marketing will ever allow turbo cayman or cayman RS

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views &amp;amp; inputs pls.

    aloha

    steve

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    I agree with you to some point... First, Boxster/Cayman Turbo is simply impossible because this generation of flat-6 engines is not strong enough in construction to be turbocharged. On 997 GT3 and 997 Turbo Porsche is using old(but, very refined) construction which is better for few reasons(true dry sump, can be turbocharged, longer life span etc.)... Many people do not know that but, 997 Carrera/Carrera S and Boxster/Cayman engines are not the same engines as in 997 GT3 and Turbo.
    In 987 series we will not see any new engines, IMO. Porsche is thinking about X51 power kit for 3.4L engine in Boxster S/Cayman S but, who will buy it? If they introduce it X51 power kit will have 320hp/350Nm and performance will be little bit better but, for around 12000Euro in EU!!
    IMO far better thing was to offer Cayman(base model) with 3.4L 295hp engine from the beggining and to put 3.6L 325hp in Cayman S later! If they did it they could justify the price difference between Boxster and Cayman! Now, Cayman is THE ONLY coupe model which is way more expensive the cabrio version with same engine!
    Honestly, as previous Boxster S(987) owner I like Cayman S even more then Boxster but, price is wrong...
    Future success of Cayman is pretty foggy IMO.
    BTW, it is great shame since Cayman is great car.

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views &amp; inputs pls.

    Quote:
    macsak said:
    ever since the beginning of the 986/996 line, there have been stories of turbo boxsters and even V-type engined 911s
    i have it from VERY reputable sources that this is true
    porsche is always testing to see what can be done with various configurations
    however, what can be done and what marketing will allow are 2 very different things
    marketing will most likely not allow any racing by types lower on the scale than the 911 and will most likely not allow any model be faster than their cash cow (911)
    we may be suprised by porsche (like we were with the intro of the CGT), but it seems very unlikely that marketing will ever allow turbo cayman or cayman RS



    I definitely agree and I feel frustrated as well. PAG's marketing has tied itself in the hands by letting 911 be the King of the Throne. It's status of being worshipped by purists make it hard to stop cashing in on this cash cow. If you were to ask for my POV, I would say that we will never see the 911 being overthrown or overtaken by its little brothers (including Cayman S Boxster S...) in my lifetime. With that said, I couldn't help but agree with you that we will never see something of a Cayman RS or Boxster RS/Turbo whatever variants that could touch the base carrera. The only way they can do more is to nudge everything up >400 hp then we may see a boxster with 325 hp and a cayman s with 355 hp. I can see this coming in 3 years but only on condition that the 911 laps faster than both because of the powertrain

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    IMO far better thing was to offer Cayman(base model) with 3.4L 295hp engine from the beggining and to put 3.6L 325hp in Cayman S later! If they did it they could justify the price difference between Boxster and Cayman! Now, Cayman is THE ONLY coupe model which is way more expensive the cabrio version with same engine!
    Honestly, as previous Boxster S(987) owner I like Cayman S even more then Boxster but, price is wrong...




    As a current 987s owner, I share your feelings. In fact, if it weren't for my "NOT BELIEVING IN PAG's current pricing structure", I would have gotten the CAYMAN S. However, remember that there is a distinct advantage in offering the cayman s at 295 hp making it shy of 300 hp. There is this psychological marker and in 2 years time, I can totally imagine a 3.6 L 325 hp deal of the base carrera being put into the Cayman S. Then all the guys will wanna upgrade. By then, the flagship of the carrera would have moved up a notch with the base touching 355 and the s doing 395 hp. With every iteration, Porsche ups the 911 lineup so it is only a matter of time but I feel that Porsche purposely does it in a manner that is timely enough to squeeze maximum $$$.

    I have the 3.2L 987s and got it on March 21st and Porsche already had me thinking about upgrading to a Cayman S 295 now that they put in the 3.4 L. This is ingenious. My feeling is that the Cayman S was a great marketing RENAMING PROJECT. Basically, it was extremely successful in making many customers believe in something. Now that 3.4L is being put in, I believe that it proves my point that using torsional rigidity as an explanation was all BS. Everyone knows that the 911 coupe has more anti-torsion capability than the cabrio so what's all this marketing jargons about that it is NOT A BOXSTER WITH A ROOF. Well, it is successful nonetheless it is just that I have convinced myself to believe in something else.

    However, I can't not say that the Cayman s is a very sound sports coupe and probably the best out there in my mind.

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    I agree with what has been said before. But as a 987S owner with "track day ambitions" I was very dissapointed when I read in the Users instruction that Porsche does not approve R-marked tyres due to the risk of oil starvation.On a sports car!
    To me horsepower isn't that important. I would have been first in line buying a Cayman Clubsport with the following;
    R-tyre approved engine/oil sump, Limited Slip, -20 mm suspension, half cage, bucket seats 4 point harness. Call it little brother GT4 if you'd like. I would have bought it even with 295 hp. And I'm sure there are enough Porsche enthusiasts like myself who would love to own a GT3 but shy away from the price.
    I am now looking at Lotus Exige S....Cayman CS would have been my choise, but if the famous Porsche Marketing doesn't want me as there customer, well then I wich them good luck an vote with my feets.

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Funny how there is so much focus on power.
    My preferences would be (in no particular order):
    - Bluetooth phone instead of the current SIM card arrangement.
    - A more compliant suspension option for UK roads.
    - LED lights.
    - Re-design of the front foglights.

    Otherwise I think the Cayman S is as close to perfection as I am likely to find (and I also have a 997).

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Quote:
    Upplanda said:
    I agree with what has been said before. But as a 987S owner with "track day ambitions" I was very dissapointed when I read in the Users instruction that Porsche does not approve R-marked tyres due to the risk of oil starvation.On a sports car!
    To me horsepower isn't that important. I would have been first in line buying a Cayman Clubsport with the following;
    R-tyre approved engine/oil sump, Limited Slip, -20 mm suspension, half cage, bucket seats 4 point harness. Call it little brother GT4 if you'd like. I would have bought it even with 295 hp. And I'm sure there are enough Porsche enthusiasts like myself who would love to own a GT3 but shy away from the price.
    I am now looking at Lotus Exige S....Cayman CS would have been my choise, but if the famous Porsche Marketing doesn't want me as there customer, well then I wich them good luck an vote with my feets.


    In Sweden, maybe you can find a nice used GT3 Clubsport MkI (1999-2001). That would be a great trackcar for similar money to a Cayman S...

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    In Sweden, maybe you can find a nice used GT3 Clubsport MkI (1999-2001). That would be a great trackcar for similar money to a Cayman S...


    Believe me, thats also on my radar screen, I belive the prices for MkII:s (2003-2004) will also drop now when the 997 GT3 is available. But new is new and a Cayman CS would have been a great nimble track car.

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Quote:
    ptcja said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    IMO far better thing was to offer Cayman(base model) with 3.4L 295hp engine from the beggining and to put 3.6L 325hp in Cayman S later! If they did it they could justify the price difference between Boxster and Cayman! Now, Cayman is THE ONLY coupe model which is way more expensive the cabrio version with same engine!
    Honestly, as previous Boxster S(987) owner I like Cayman S even more then Boxster but, price is wrong...




    As a current 987s owner, I share your feelings. In fact, if it weren't for my "NOT BELIEVING IN PAG's current pricing structure", I would have gotten the CAYMAN S. However, remember that there is a distinct advantage in offering the cayman s at 295 hp making it shy of 300 hp. There is this psychological marker and in 2 years time, I can totally imagine a 3.6 L 325 hp deal of the base carrera being put into the Cayman S. Then all the guys will wanna upgrade. By then, the flagship of the carrera would have moved up a notch with the base touching 355 and the s doing 395 hp. With every iteration, Porsche ups the 911 lineup so it is only a matter of time but I feel that Porsche purposely does it in a manner that is timely enough to squeeze maximum $$$.

    I have the 3.2L 987s and got it on March 21st and Porsche already had me thinking about upgrading to a Cayman S 295 now that they put in the 3.4 L. This is ingenious. My feeling is that the Cayman S was a great marketing RENAMING PROJECT. Basically, it was extremely successful in making many customers believe in something. Now that 3.4L is being put in, I believe that it proves my point that using torsional rigidity as an explanation was all BS. Everyone knows that the 911 coupe has more anti-torsion capability than the cabrio so what's all this marketing jargons about that it is NOT A BOXSTER WITH A ROOF. Well, it is successful nonetheless it is just that I have convinced myself to believe in something else.





    Funny if it's just a "marketing project", how come the Cayman keeps winning awards and the Boxster doesn't?


    Dismiss the better handling of the Cayman if you wish, but independent reviews suggest it more than BS

    See below for the latest of many accolades


    http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Auto_News/Porsche_Tops_APEAL_Study.S175.A10587.html

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs

    As many of the authors of those award articles have noted, the Cayman is already out of their price range, so they're not so concerned when it comes to price or value.

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Quote:
    toplad said:

    Funny if it's just a "marketing project", how come the Cayman keeps winning awards and the Boxster doesn't?


    Dismiss the better handling of the Cayman if you wish, but independent reviews suggest it more than BS





    As a product in isolation of other factors the Cayman is a fine tool. But in reality other factors such as value for money, cannot be ignored. Now that the 3.4 is available in the Boxster for over Pounds3,000 less, the Cayman is blown out of the water when it comes to value for money. Its price should at most be on a par with its roadster equivalent for those that prefer the coupe.

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Funny if it's just a "marketing project", how come the Cayman keeps winning awards and the Boxster doesn't?


    http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Auto_News/Porsche_Tops_APEAL_Study.S175.A10587.html



    I absolutely agree the Cayman S is the best sports coupe and I would have gotten one myself if it hadn't been for the wait. However, putting in the 3.4 L engine now simply proves that it is a great marketing project more than ever.

    By the way, the 987 boxster series have taken many awards in 2006 FYI:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/bestcars/10364/10best-cars-luxury-sports-car.html

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Upplander, if I have 100,000 pounds to shell out, wouldn't we all rather be here:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP_iGAalJec&eurl=


    http://www.ascari.net

    What do you guys think?

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Quote:
    ptcja said:
    Upplander, if I have 100,000 pounds to shell out, wouldn't we all rather be here:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP_iGAalJec&eurl=


    http://www.ascari.net

    What do you guys think?



    very nice place
    I would like to have some vacation there

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs

    WOW

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs

    I'll take a Cayman anytime over a Boxster.....no matter what the cost. It looks more aggressive, is stiffer and more precise, and isn't a convertible which means a lot to me.

    Blowing a few extra $K for the above advantages means nothing to me. You should buy the Porsche you want.....not the one you can save money on. Your missing the whole point of owning one if you do.

    Marketing ploy or not.....Porsche knew they could charge more for the Cayman because of the above reasons....and after seeing the sales figures they were correct. Now the Boxster is being injected with the Cayman engine to stay competitive in its ever more competitive market.

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs

    I agree, get the Porsche you want. Why would you let annoyance at Porsche marketing prevent you from buying the car you truly desire? That makes no sense to me.

    I wouldn't worry at all about running R-compounds on Boxsters or Caymans. People run them here all day long and I haven't heard of anyone suffering from oil starvation problems. I routinely ran my 01 S with R compounds VERY hard at the track, and my engine was rock solid after 50k+ miles.

    Slicks might be another story, though.

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Quote:
    toplad said:

    Funny if it's just a "marketing project", how come the Cayman keeps winning awards and the Boxster doesn't?


    Dismiss the better handling of the Cayman if you wish, but independent reviews suggest it more than BS





    As a product in isolation of other factors the Cayman is a fine tool. But in reality other factors such as value for money, cannot be ignored.



    If value for money is the main requirement you don't buy a Porsche of any sort, you buy a Yugo. Then again the Cayman is just as quick as the 997 on the road or track and makes the 997 look pricey in performance terms...depends if you buy into that whole 911 thing I suppose, having been their and done that I'm not sure I do....although the GT3 997 does look good

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Quote:
    toplad said:
    If value for money is the main requirement you don't buy a Porsche of any sort, you buy a Yugo.



    I disagree. The Kia Picanto is far better value.

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Quote:
    toplad said:
    See below for the latest of many accolades


    http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Auto_News/Porsche_Tops_APEAL_Study.S175.A10587.html



    According to that article the Scion TC won the accolade of "Compact Sporty Car".

    Since when does an ugly shoe box on wheels qualify as a Compact Sporty Car?

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views &amp; inputs pls.

    tC is not the shoe box
    that is the xB (bB inROW)

    aloha

    steve

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    I'm sure you'd know more than me about cheap cars, the Cayman is the cheapest car I've bought for years

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    Quote:
    toplad said:
    I'm sure you'd know more than me about cheap cars, the Cayman is the cheapest car I've bought for years



    Listen to the common man then, you might actually learn something useful.

    Re: Future Cayman Upgrades and Versions - My views & inputs pls.

    What I would have liked to have seen Porsche do with the 987/997

    Boxster 3.2 270 hp $45,100
    Boxster S 3.4 305 hp $54,700

    Cayman 3.4 305 hp $47,600
    Cayman S 3.6 340 hp $57,300
    Cayman RS 3.8 380 hp $66,500
    Cayman GT3 3.6 420 hp $102,300

    make the RS and GT3 wide body versions, give the RS a 70's 911 2.7 RS style spoiler and give the GT3 a body kit rear wing similar to the 911 GT3 and you would have Porsche's ultimate n/a sports car.

    And for the 911 faithful (Cabriolet Carrera 4 versions are assumed of course)

    Carrera 3.6 340 hp
    Carrera S 3.8 380 hp
    Carrera GT3 3.6 420 hp
    911 Turbo 3.6 480 hp
    911 GT2 3.6 550 hp

    All with current pricing

     
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