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Jun 26, 2005 8:10:22 PM
- HoboPie
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Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
I'm not so surprised at the track times because we've known for quite some time that they were quite comparable, but the braking distance for the Enzo is disappointing.
Objectively not bad, but being beaten by even a ceramic disk Murcielago is kind of odd. You'd think just the weight and downforce advantages for the Enzo would easily give it a significant advantage.
The real surprise for me is actually how well the Enzo did on the track considering the apparent braking disadvantage and smaller than usual acceleration advantage.
Objectively not bad, but being beaten by even a ceramic disk Murcielago is kind of odd. You'd think just the weight and downforce advantages for the Enzo would easily give it a significant advantage.
The real surprise for me is actually how well the Enzo did on the track considering the apparent braking disadvantage and smaller than usual acceleration advantage.
and it's supposed to be the ferrari of all ferrari's!
Jun 26, 2005 9:59:56 PM
- Moogle
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C GT
Quote:
andrea said:
On the last number of Quattroruote.
Those number are awesome.
Do you have any more info from that article on the New Murcie CCM brakes: what was the diameter of the brakes, are the wheels 18 or 19'' now? On what track was the test performed?
Jun 26, 2005 10:44:36 PM
- svtrader1
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
They obviously did more than one lap to test these cars, but they likely didn't lap them extensively. Even if they had that .1 of second LIKELY means very little. If the difference in pace was actually larger they likely would have done a few more laps just to ensure the difference was observable.
Jun 27, 2005 6:07:12 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Looks like the CGT won the track lap times again.
The CGT will probably be faster than the Enzo 9 out of 10 times on a short track. At the 'Ring it will be a different story all together.
Based on what, we don't have any Enzo lap times on the ring becuase Ferrari is too scared to lap in the ring, and specifically prohibited any private owner to provide theirs for testing too
...
Jun 27, 2005 7:20:27 AM
- svtrader1
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Looks like the CGT won the track lap times again.
The CGT will probably be faster than the Enzo 9 out of 10 times on a short track. At the 'Ring it will be a different story all together.
Based on what, we don't have any Enzo lap times on the ring becuase Ferrari is too scared to lap in the ring, and specifically prohibited any private owner to provide theirs for testing too
Based on my brilliant analysis!
Most comparisons between the CGT and Enzo have been done on short courses, where the difference have been a fraction of a sec. But, that difference can be attributable to driver error and, therefore, not neccesarily decisive.
At the 'Ring with long straights, I believe the Enzo would have a clear advantage, because, it out accelerates the CGT. So, therefore, any ground (minimal at best) going into a turn the Enzo may lose to the CGT, it would more than make up for exiting out of that turn and onto the straight.
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Quote:
Moogle said:
numbers alone are never sufficient to express the full spectrum of any given experience.
especially one as visceral as driving
i hate it when people try to sum up something that cannot be summed up by a clinical chart
Good point! Eloquently said.
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
A write you a report fromthe complete article.
Quattroruote invited for this "Under 4 seconds club" also Pagani Zonda, MB SLR and Saleen S7 but they refused.
On the g-test C GT wins on the steerig pad 55m with 1,215g.Enzo 1,196g and Murci 1,113g.
On the braking test Murci wins with 30cm of advantage on C GT.
For the acceleration test the main problem for Enzo and C GT is the traction because Murci is 4wd.
Quattroruote underlines the facilty to get 0-100 time for Murci.
Enzo, after long practice with launch control(trick: anticipating the 2 gear) did best time for 0.07 sec.
Now the track handling test.
Murci with 300kg over the others did 1.19.840
C GT is so fast through the corner and specially in the low-speed part of the track.1.17.349
Enzo isn't able to catch time of C GT also for the high temperatures of the tyres.
Specs of singles cars:
Enzo. Not easy to drive over 5000rpm. Difficoult the exit from the corner (power slide also in 3rd gear).
Murci: too much brutal the brakes. Too much 1800kg......on the track
C GT: engine goes up and down like a F1. not easy to use the clutch.incredible from 5000 to 8400rpm. amazing the brakes. great handling of the twisty part. not so good the gearbox(better a F1 system)
Quattroruote invited for this "Under 4 seconds club" also Pagani Zonda, MB SLR and Saleen S7 but they refused.
On the g-test C GT wins on the steerig pad 55m with 1,215g.Enzo 1,196g and Murci 1,113g.
On the braking test Murci wins with 30cm of advantage on C GT.
For the acceleration test the main problem for Enzo and C GT is the traction because Murci is 4wd.
Quattroruote underlines the facilty to get 0-100 time for Murci.
Enzo, after long practice with launch control(trick: anticipating the 2 gear) did best time for 0.07 sec.
Now the track handling test.
Murci with 300kg over the others did 1.19.840
C GT is so fast through the corner and specially in the low-speed part of the track.1.17.349
Enzo isn't able to catch time of C GT also for the high temperatures of the tyres.
Specs of singles cars:
Enzo. Not easy to drive over 5000rpm. Difficoult the exit from the corner (power slide also in 3rd gear).
Murci: too much brutal the brakes. Too much 1800kg......on the track
C GT: engine goes up and down like a F1. not easy to use the clutch.incredible from 5000 to 8400rpm. amazing the brakes. great handling of the twisty part. not so good the gearbox(better a F1 system)
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Quote:
andrea said:
For the acceleration test the main problem for Enzo and C GT is the traction because Murci is 4wd.
Quattroruote underlines the facilty to get 0-100 time for Murci.
Enzo, after long practice with launch control(trick: anticipating the 2 gear) did best time for 0.07 sec.
Thanks for taking the time to translate!
i wonder, isn't the 4WD a DISadvantage for acceleration from standstill?
I would have thought tha the time taken to transfer grip to the front axle is more penalising than anything else.
I could be wrong, I just thought that 2WD cars are always quicker off the mark than their 4WD counterparts? (given the same characteristics of course).
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Quote:
Fanch said:
Thanks for taking the time to translate!
i wonder, isn't the 4WD a DISadvantage for acceleration from standstill?
I would have thought tha the time taken to transfer grip to the front axle is more penalising than anything else.
I could be wrong, I just thought that 2WD cars are always quicker off the mark than their 4WD counterparts? (given the same characteristics of course).
No, I don't think so. Perhaps your description may be true if the car has not enough power. But when you got plenty of horses, 4WD cars perform better accelerating from standstill, because their power is better transfered onto the street, instead of 2WD just burning their rubber. But I think this is only the case until 100 kmh or so, above that speed 2WD catch up again.
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification Rossi, makes sense I guess.
So when the car already has inertia, like exciting a corner at speed, 2WD have more traction on rear axle which makes sense obviously, does that make them more efficient, faster? Not sure, but probably, otherwise, all race cars would be 4WD right?
So when the car already has inertia, like exciting a corner at speed, 2WD have more traction on rear axle which makes sense obviously, does that make them more efficient, faster? Not sure, but probably, otherwise, all race cars would be 4WD right?
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Quote:
Fanch said:
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification Rossi, makes sense I guess.
So when the car already has inertia, like exciting a corner at speed, 2WD have more traction on rear axle which makes sense obviously, does that make them more efficient, faster? Not sure, but probably, otherwise, all race cars would be 4WD right?
Well, I'm no expert in that either, Francois, I just know that all the turbo Porsche had advantages when accelerated from standstill and that their Ferrari counterpart mostly did catch up at higher speeds. You can read that in nearly all tests.
Concerning race cars, I think the weight disadvantage of 4WD is more crucial than the gains in traction. For the average driver 4WD may be the better, what means safer solution.
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Quote:
Mike S said:
what is safe about a car that can go 0-200khm's in around 10 seconds?that's like saying throwing in a extra weave in the seatbelt's thickness is going to make a HUGE safety difference
With "safe" I meant easier to handle near the limit, especially in wet conditions. No doubt that a 4WD will behave more docile than a 2WD, even if the latter is equipped with all of the today's electronic driving systems.
Jun 28, 2005 6:04:03 AM
- CarreraGtRacer
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Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
0-100 in 4 seconds for the Carrera GT?? Probably due to traction but still 4 seconds?? Many other car mags have achieved times of 3.5 seconds.
"At the 'Ring with long straights, I believe the Enzo would have a clear advantage, because, it out accelerates the CGT"
Yes it BARELY out accelerates the Carrera GT but whatever the Enzo gains in the straights, it loses on the turns against the Carrera GT.
"At the 'Ring with long straights, I believe the Enzo would have a clear advantage, because, it out accelerates the CGT"
Yes it BARELY out accelerates the Carrera GT but whatever the Enzo gains in the straights, it loses on the turns against the Carrera GT.
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
Mike S said:
what is safe about a car that can go 0-200khm's in around 10 seconds?
... easier to handle near the limit, especially in wet conditions ...
now who would go driving on the limit in the wet?!?! lol just kidding rossi, yeah i understand what you're getting it at just fooling around
Jun 28, 2005 4:28:44 PM
- HoboPie
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Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Quote:
0-100 in 4 seconds for the Carrera GT?? Probably due to traction but still 4 seconds?? Many other car mags have achieved times of 3.5 seconds.
"At the 'Ring with long straights, I believe the Enzo would have a clear advantage, because, it out accelerates the CGT"
Yes it BARELY out accelerates the Carrera GT but whatever the Enzo gains in the straights, it loses on the turns against the Carrera GT.
Normally the Enzo has a significant acceleration advantage and the CGT an advantage in tighter corners, but this test is interesting because while the Enzo has only a small acceleration advantage and it is a small course it managed to keep up while at a braking disadvantage and apparent traction problems out of corners.
The only place left to make up time is the handling.
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Quote:
HoboPie said:Quote:
0-100 in 4 seconds for the Carrera GT?? Probably due to traction but still 4 seconds?? Many other car mags have achieved times of 3.5 seconds.
"At the 'Ring with long straights, I believe the Enzo would have a clear advantage, because, it out accelerates the CGT"
Yes it BARELY out accelerates the Carrera GT but whatever the Enzo gains in the straights, it loses on the turns against the Carrera GT.
Normally the Enzo has a significant acceleration advantage and the CGT an advantage in tighter corners, but this test is interesting because while the Enzo has only a small acceleration advantage and it is a small course it managed to keep up while at a braking disadvantage and apparent traction problems out of corners.
The only place left to make up time is the handling.
What do you mean with "significant acceleration advantage"? Numbers don't lie. The Enzo is barely faster than the Carrera GT in the straight line and loses out in the cornering department. If the Enzo is so fast, why doesn't Ferrari permit it to be tested on the 'Ring?
I am however very impressed with the Murci, I must say.
Re: Track test Italian Magazine Enzo Murcielago e-gear and C
Actually what I was saying is that if the Enzo is barely faster in a straightline, and loses horribly under braking how the hell could it afford to lose out in the cornering department too and still come up with a very comparable time?
As for acceleration. There are several tests including same day tests that show a massive difference in acceleration especially above 100mph.
Autocar 0-100-0
Enzo 0-100 : 6.69
CGT 0-100 : 7.31
Over half a second to 100mph isn't exactly chump change.Hell in that crazy top speed test the Enzo hit 186 like 9 seconds earlier. I know that is a rare speed at a race track, but that isn't even my point.
Where is the Enzo finding the time when it isn't much quicker in a straightline, they even talk about traction issues out of corners which might even nullify the accel advantage on a straight and appears to be noticably worse under braking?
As for acceleration. There are several tests including same day tests that show a massive difference in acceleration especially above 100mph.
Autocar 0-100-0
Enzo 0-100 : 6.69
CGT 0-100 : 7.31
Over half a second to 100mph isn't exactly chump change.Hell in that crazy top speed test the Enzo hit 186 like 9 seconds earlier. I know that is a rare speed at a race track, but that isn't even my point.
Where is the Enzo finding the time when it isn't much quicker in a straightline, they even talk about traction issues out of corners which might even nullify the accel advantage on a straight and appears to be noticably worse under braking?
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