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    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Grant:
    Carlos from Spain:

    I curious to what they are refering to as automatically double-declutching and how that affects the manual downshift procedure by the driver... wasn't that a technique needed back in the old days when gearboxes didn't have syncros? 

    My guess is that it's similar to the system used by Nissan with the 370Z (moving the gear lever creates an automatic rev-match by the computer).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

    That would make sense, but then why call it double-declutching? i.e. declucthing->moving into neutral->cluctching again->declucthing->moving into the lower gear->clutching. I looked at the original press release and it literally says double-declutching, not match-reving.


    --


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I told you, they are reintroducing the SportMatic... step by step smiley ...until it becomes PDK smiley Bye bye manual.


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    Grant:
    Carlos from Spain:

    I curious to what they are refering to as automatically double-declutching and how that affects the manual downshift procedure by the driver... wasn't that a technique needed back in the old days when gearboxes didn't have syncros? 

    My guess is that it's similar to the system used by Nissan with the 370Z (moving the gear lever creates an automatic rev-match by the computer).

    That would make sense, but then why call it double-declutching? i.e. declucthing->moving into neutral->cluctching again->declucthing->moving into the lower gear->clutching. I looked at the original press release and it literally says double-declutching, not match-reving.

    I suspect that it is just a mistranslation. There isn't a German expression specifically meaning the same as "double-declutching". The expression "Zwischengas geben" is used to cover both rev-matching and double-declutching and the wrong one of the two English possibilities was chosen in this instance when the English version of the press release was drafted. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    fritz:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Grant:
    Carlos from Spain:

    I curious to what they are refering to as automatically double-declutching and how that affects the manual downshift procedure by the driver... wasn't that a technique needed back in the old days when gearboxes didn't have syncros? 

    My guess is that it's similar to the system used by Nissan with the 370Z (moving the gear lever creates an automatic rev-match by the computer).

    That would make sense, but then why call it double-declutching? i.e. declucthing->moving into neutral->cluctching again->declucthing->moving into the lower gear->clutching. I looked at the original press release and it literally says double-declutching, not match-reving.

    I suspect that it is just a mistranslation. There isn't a German expression specifically meaning the same as "double-declutching". The expression "Zwischengas geben" is used to cover both rev-matching and double-declutching and the wrong one of the two English possibilities was chosen in this instance when the English version of the press release was drafted. 

    That makes a whole lot of sense Fritz! thanks for the clarification Smiley


    --


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    fritz:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Grant:
    Carlos from Spain:

    I curious to what they are refering to as automatically double-declutching and how that affects the manual downshift procedure by the driver... wasn't that a technique needed back in the old days when gearboxes didn't have syncros? 

    My guess is that it's similar to the system used by Nissan with the 370Z (moving the gear lever creates an automatic rev-match by the computer).

    That would make sense, but then why call it double-declutching? i.e. declucthing->moving into neutral->cluctching again->declucthing->moving into the lower gear->clutching. I looked at the original press release and it literally says double-declutching, not match-reving.

    I suspect that it is just a mistranslation. There isn't a German expression specifically meaning the same as "double-declutching". The expression "Zwischengas geben" is used to cover both rev-matching and double-declutching and the wrong one of the two English possibilities was chosen in this instance when the English version of the press release was drafted. 

    That makes a whole lot of sense Fritz! thanks for the clarification Smiley

    Agreed -- this looks like a slightly misleading translation of the original press release...

    For example, in the German press articles on the 991 Carrera 4 they make reference to...
     
    "7-Gang Schaltgetriebe + Zwischengasfunktion (nur mit Sport Chrono Paket)" = "7-speed manual + declutching function (only with Sport Chrono Package)"
     
    ...where "Zwischengasfunktion" refers to the point under discussion...
     
    ...which is apparently the same word ("Zwischengasfunktion") that Porsche also use to describe the "throttle-blip" function for the 2012 Porsche 911 GT3 R race-car!
     
     
     
    • Saugmotor
    • Wassergekühlter Sechszylinder-Boxermotor mit 4 Ventiltechnik
    • Hubraum: 3.996 cm³
    • Hub: 80,4 mm
    • Bohrung: 102,7 mm
    • Motorleistung: 368 kW (500 PS)
    • Kraftstoffqualität: Superplus bleifrei, 98 ROZ
    • Trockensumpfschmierung
    • Multi-Point-Kraftstoffeinspritzung (sequentiell)
    • Elektronisches Motormanagement MS 4.0 von Bosch
    • E - Gas mit Zwischengasfunktion
    • Rennabgasanlage mit Vor- und Endschalldämpfer
    • Endschalldämpfer mit doppelten Endrohren mittiger Anordnung

    So that does sound like the new 991 Carrera 4S offers an optional "throttle-blip" function for the 7-speed manual transmission...

    Smiley SmileySmiley

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    fritz:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Grant:
    Carlos from Spain:

    I curious to what they are refering to as automatically double-declutching and how that affects the manual downshift procedure by the driver... wasn't that a technique needed back in the old days when gearboxes didn't have syncros? 

    My guess is that it's similar to the system used by Nissan with the 370Z (moving the gear lever creates an automatic rev-match by the computer).

    That would make sense, but then why call it double-declutching? i.e. declucthing->moving into neutral->cluctching again->declucthing->moving into the lower gear->clutching. I looked at the original press release and it literally says double-declutching, not match-reving.

    I suspect that it is just a mistranslation. There isn't a German expression specifically meaning the same as "double-declutching". The expression "Zwischengas geben" is used to cover both rev-matching and double-declutching and the wrong one of the two English possibilities was chosen in this instance when the English version of the press release was drafted. 

    That makes a whole lot of sense Fritz! thanks for the clarification Smiley

    There's an Italian saying, "traduttore, traditore." That is, "translatortraitor."    Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Latest Porsche 911 Performs the Perfect Shift … Without You

     
    (29 August 2012)
     
    "Any gearhead worth their weight in engine oil has painstakingly developed the art of heel-and-toeing; simultaneously matching the engine speed with the transmission’s input shaft to elicit a perfectly smooth downshift. But the latest advancement from Porsche will make all that late-night throttle/brake ballet practice for naught.
     
    If you’re unfamiliar with the concept of the heel-and-toe downshift, its name can be a bit misleading. In cars equipped with a manual transmission, drivers obsessed with keeping the vehicle weight from transitioning abruptly during a downshift (going from fifth to fourth, fourth to third, etc. can unsettle the vehicle at speed) will push in the clutch, shift into the lower gear, and while applying pressure to the brake to slow the car with their right foot, they pivot their heel to stab the throttle. This matches the engine revs with the transmission speed, and when they then let out the clutch, it’s a seamless transfer of power. And all of this happens in less than a second.
     
     
    The computer in Porsche’s latest all-wheel-drive 911 models – the Carrera 4 and Carrera 4S equipped with the Sport Chrono package – is smart enough to recognize when the driver wants to downshift in the manual transmission models, and automatically matches the engine speed, negating the need for fancy footwork.
     
    But to give credit where credit’s due, this latest advancement isn’t that new. Nissan began fitting a similar technology – dubbed SynchroRev Match – to the 370Z when it was introduced in 2008. It does the same thing as this new Porsche system, but features an on/off switch to allow shifting purists to eliminate the unwanted technological advance.
     
    According to a Porsche spokesman, the system is only active when the driver selects the “Sport Plus” driving mode, so in Normal and Sport mode, the system is deactivated. But the fact that drivers can’t disable the system no matter what mode they’ve chosen will surely be a sticking point with a fraction of enthusiasts. But they’d better get used to it. The new rev-matching feature will eventually roll out to the rest of the 911 range in the coming years, and there’s little doubt it will find its way into other Porsche models equipped with a stick shift, including two of our perennial favorites: the Boxster and Cayman."
     
     
    Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Thanks Boxster Coupe GTS wink


    --


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Sorry to say, but this 'Perfect Shift' is lame yes


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    HeavyMetalThunder:

    Sorry to say, but this 'Perfect Shift' is lame yes

    Stop resisting now and get PDK Smiley


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I don't get it . Either you go for PDK and you have all the automated stuff for good reasons or you do not want that and then a fully manual is the only way. This hybrid system is useless , unless it is only a way to slowly get the last resisting  dynausors to convert to 'assisted trannys '


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Gnil:

    I don't get it . Either you go for PDK and you have all the automated stuff for good reasons or you do not want that and then a fully manual is the only way. This hybrid system is useless , unless it is only a way to slowly get the last resisting  dynausors to convert to 'assisted trannys '

    Right. I can only see one point with this system... to convert the dinosaurs... step by step Smiley

    The new 7-speed manual was developed from the PDK box, right? So should be easy to add new automated features step by step until it is a PDK again and everyone are happy. In my view it is the right thing to do. The 991 is now so refined that a manual box feels like stone age.

    For the manual enthusiasts there are plenty of 997.2 cars around which offer similar performance and more driver involvement.


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

     

    just got some interesting info on upcoming turbo and cayenne diesel s

    Cayenne Diesel S – introduction jan 13 – 4.2l V8 360-380 HP

    991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

    Both get a different even wider body as 991 4s. Also it’s the first time that Non S and S hits at the same time the market. Price step up will be huge. Turbo will start at around 180k € (maybe even higher) in Germany. Turbo S will be way higher and start at around 210k €. That said the difference between turbo and turbo s are not only options indecisionPerformance from the Turbo should be "slightly" better the 458 and MP4-12C. Turbo S ..... angel

    GT3 will get body from 991 4s, GT3 RS will get body from Turbo.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    bluelines:
    HeavyMetalThunder:

    Sorry to say, but this 'Perfect Shift' is lame yes

    Stop resisting now and get PDK Smiley

    YOU

    ME

    Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    hunterone:

    991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

    Both get a different even wider body as 991 4s. Also it’s the first time that Non S and S hits at the same time the market. Price step up will be huge. Turbo will start at around 180k € (maybe even higher) in Germany. Turbo S will be way higher and start at around 210k €. That said the difference between turbo and turbo s are not only options indecisionPerformance from the Turbo should be "slightly" better the 458 and MP4-12C. Turbo S ..... angel


    2014 is still al long time ago, especially if you don't want a car from the first series. Smiley

    By then, the Scuderia successor will boost out 620 hp, the spicy version of the MP4-12C will have considerably more horses and the new Gallardo won't stay behind, I guess. So the Turbo/S will face different competition.

    If prices are correct (and I don't doubt they are), I really wonder where the rumoured midengined Porsche model will fit in and if the performance of the forthcoming Turbo S should be as you said, life for the model between Turbo and 918 won't be easier. 


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    thats the same i thought, but as in an interview stated (dont know which right now) about the 961 price range it will be generously somewhere between 250k-800k i think the mid engined version is as fast as the 918 and the price will be arround 350k-400k . Dont know where the GT2 versions of 991 will take place when the turbo s is that sharp.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

    Both get a different even wider body as 991 4s. Also it’s the first time that Non S and S hits at the same time the market. Price step up will be huge. Turbo will start at around 180k € (maybe even higher) in Germany. Turbo S will be way higher and start at around 210k €. That said the difference between turbo and turbo s are not only options indecisionPerformance from the Turbo should be "slightly" better the 458 and MP4-12C. Turbo S ..... angel

    GT3 will get body from 991 4s, GT3 RS will get body from Turbo.

    Considering the modest power gains on latest cars from Porsche (991 Carrera and Carrera S, Cayenne Turbo II with the same power as facelifted original Cayenne) I somehow doubt the 991 Turbo will be faster than 12C. I reckon 0-200km/h in 9,5s for 991 Turbo and around 9,0s for 991 Turbo S, with 991 Turbo having 530hp and 991 Turbo S having 560hp based on history of 911 line. I strongly doubt Porsche will get crazy and offer much more. So pricing should be also modest.  


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I seriously doubt that pricing.....

    porsche will sell significantly less turbos if they do that and they want to sell as many units as possible.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    hunterone:

     

     

    991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

     

    Are we talking about introduction at this year IAA or 2013IAA in frankfurt?


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    palenimbus:
    hunterone:

    991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

    Are we talking about introduction at this year IAA or 2013IAA in frankfurt?


    This year is Paris motor show, IAA will be in 2013. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    hunterone:

     

    just got some interesting info on upcoming turbo and cayenne diesel s

    Cayenne Diesel S – introduction jan 13 – 4.2l V8 360-380 HP

    991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

    Both get a different even wider body as 991 4s. Also it’s the first time that Non S and S hits at the same time the market. Price step up will be huge. Turbo will start at around 180k € (maybe even higher) in Germany. Turbo S will be way higher and start at around 210k €. That said the difference between turbo and turbo s are not only options indecisionPerformance from the Turbo should be "slightly" better the 458 and MP4-12C. Turbo S ..... angel

    GT3 will get body from 991 4s, GT3 RS will get body from Turbo.


    That's some pretty specific info.  Good news, because finally the 911 turbo S doesn't have to follow some old tradition of coming out a few years before the end of cycle.  Also, good news if you want a different body size than the 4s, for even more distinction.  Unfortunately, it comes with an even higher price premium.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    0-200 for 9-9,5 secs is too fast for 991 turbo and turbo s

    I expect lower figures 10-10,5 secs...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Does anybody else think Porsche is slowly trying to make the manual transmission more and more like the PDK, so they can slowly convert everyone?


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Carrara:

    Does anybody else think Porsche is slowly trying to make the manual transmission more and more like the PDK, so they can slowly convert everyone?

    They're going to have to try much harder to convert me Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Grant:
    Carrara:

    Does anybody else think Porsche is slowly trying to make the manual transmission more and more like the PDK, so they can slowly convert everyone?

    They're going to have to try much harder to convert me Smiley

     With the 991 7 speed manual based on the PDK transmission, it  appears our options will be limited.  It will be interesting to see if the 991 GT3 has a PDK as it's primary transmission.


    --

    2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    "GT3 will get body from 991 4s, GT3 RS will get body from Turbo"

    991 4S , and 991 Turbo is same body.....   

    Question is, will they build both a normal body GT-3, and an RS Version as well...

    Will they all be Wide Body, will they all be Sport PDK...... I certainly hope not.

    Revvv  Smiley

    Smiley Smiley Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    No it is not the same body. 991 turbo will be wider than 4s.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Carrara:

    Does anybody else think Porsche is slowly trying to make the manual transmission more and more like the PDK, so they can slowly convert everyone?

    I think I have said that 10 times now Smiley So yes, definitely think that.

    Manual is soon dead. For the dinosaurs that don't want to "convert" there are plenty of older 911 generations around. Why would you get the latest and greatest 911 with  all it's new features... and then get it as manual?! Makes little sense to me. Then get a "proper" air-cooled 911 instead without all the snick snack... and stop moaning about Porsche evolving and staying on top of the game Smiley


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I think you are missing the point here, why would people still like to ride bicycle if you can be more efficient using motorcycle?Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    sand8dune:

    I think you are missing the point here, why would people still like to ride bicycle if you can be more efficient using motorcycle?Smiley

    I think you are missing the point that it is like buying a motorcycle... but still wanting the pedals Smiley

    Do you want the 911 without electrical steering too? No adaptive dampers? No stability management? No torque vectoring? No active roll bars? No water cooled engine?

     


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


     
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