Crown

Board: BMW M Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    I know all of Rennteam is patiently waiting for news on the all new Z4-don’t-call-it-a-supra... one review here by Evo, distinctly underwhelmed.  Shocked, you say? 

    https://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/z4/21918/new-2019-bmw-z4-review-does-the-new-toyota-supra-s-twin-impress

     


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    it will be a better car if they put the M5's TT V8 in it.....................


    --

     

     


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    If Porsche wish to regain the lead in this segment they must offer 6 cylinder engines.

    Another point is that the Z4 clientele (even the M40)  wouldn't care too much about lap times and dynamic nuances. They would be more than satisfied with the style and the cultured refinement of the Z4, its undemanding turn of speed when they choose to go fast and the good quality that all recent BMWs offer.

    IMO most car magazines are very removed from the criteria of the buying public.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    4trac:

    I know all of Rennteam is patiently waiting for news on the all new Z4-don’t-call-it-a-supra... one review here by Evo, distinctly underwhelmed.  Shocked, you say? 

    https://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/z4/21918/new-2019-bmw-z4-review-does-the-new-toyota-supra-s-twin-impress

     

    That makes me think of this 440 convertible we had as a rental car during summer vacation... I was really shocked by how bad this car felt. I mean it is still approx 80k Euro in Germany. The car felt very clumsy and heavy. Steering was not direct for sure, but also not very bad. This clumsiness and the heavy weight on the front axle was the worst. And how slow the roof mechanism would work. Also you could only open/close at standstill. Having said that I can understand a bit what this article says about the Z4...


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    IMO all convertibles that are based on closed roof cars are not as good to drive as the original car they are based on.

    Even a 911 cabrio is not as good to drive as the coupe.

    Besides when someone buys a BMW, even a powerful one, this person doesn't expect a Porsche. I drive a BMW in my daily routine and I appreciate the ease of use that it offers (e.g. light steering and artificially heavier in Sport)) and its relaxing manners more than Porsche.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    Aside from the driving, just what is going on with BMW styling these days? The new 3er looks horrible, the X4 makes a Pontiac Aztec look good, the X7 and the 8er are plain tacky, ...

    They used to be so elegant.


    --

    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    Porker:

    Aside from the driving, just what is going on with BMW styling these days? The new 3er looks horrible, the X4 makes a Pontiac Aztec look good, the X7 and the 8er are plain tacky, ...

    They used to be so elegant.

    Indeed, and same goes for their interiors too. 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    Porker:

    Aside from the driving, just what is going on with BMW styling these days? The new 3er looks horrible, the X4 makes a Pontiac Aztec look good, the X7 and the 8er are plain tacky, ...

    They used to be so elegant.

    There are no good looking cars anymore in the classic sense of the word. Even Ferrari don't make beautiful cars anymore. See the deterioration in style from the 308GTB of the 70s to the current 488 model.

    Manufacturers cater for a world market nowadays where tastes vary significantly. In the past it was just Europe and North America. However manufacturers mainly offer the same global products and by definition they are compromised aesthetically.

    One region's elegance and understatement is  cheap and plain elsewhere. What a European sees as bordering the vulgar someone else may see as grandiose and striking e.g. X7 or 8-series.

    Having said the above, I find the BMW style most to my appeal among the premium manufacturers.

     


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    reginos:

    If Porsche wish to regain the lead in this segment they must offer 6 cylinder engines.

    Another point is that the Z4 clientele (even the M40)  wouldn't care too much about lap times and dynamic nuances. They would be more than satisfied with the style and the cultured refinement of the Z4, its undemanding turn of speed when they choose to go fast and the good quality that all recent BMWs offer.

    IMO most car magazines are very removed from the criteria of the buying public.

    Agree 100% with offering a six cylinder engine option! Every time I drive a 718 I come away loving the car but hating the engine!


    --

    Porsche Boxster 981 GTS Carrara white / VW Golf GTI 5dr DSG Tornado Red


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    dreamcar:
    reginos:

    If Porsche wish to regain the lead in this segment they must offer 6 cylinder engines.

    Another point is that the Z4 clientele (even the M40)  wouldn't care too much about lap times and dynamic nuances. They would be more than satisfied with the style and the cultured refinement of the Z4, its undemanding turn of speed when they choose to go fast and the good quality that all recent BMWs offer.

    IMO most car magazines are very removed from the criteria of the buying public.

    Agree 100% with offering a six cylinder engine option! Every time I drive a 718 I come away loving the car but hating the engine!

    I find no logic in the 4 cylinder strategy.

    By how much have Porsche dropped their average emissions or fuel consumption by the theoretically cleaner and economical small 4 cylinders. I wonder Smiley


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    reginos:
    dreamcar:
    reginos:

    If Porsche wish to regain the lead in this segment they must offer 6 cylinder engines.

    Another point is that the Z4 clientele (even the M40)  wouldn't care too much about lap times and dynamic nuances. They would be more than satisfied with the style and the cultured refinement of the Z4, its undemanding turn of speed when they choose to go fast and the good quality that all recent BMWs offer.

    IMO most car magazines are very removed from the criteria of the buying public.

    Agree 100% with offering a six cylinder engine option! Every time I drive a 718 I come away loving the car but hating the engine!

    I find no logic in the 4 cylinder strategy.

    By how much have Porsche dropped their average emissions or fuel consumption by the theoretically cleaner and economical small 4 cylinders. I wonder Smiley

    Maybe also the four cylinder “affordable” Porsche also makes a much bigger gulf between it and the much more expensive - and presumably profitable 991? Previous advances in the 981 made it much closer than ever before.


    --

    Porsche Boxster 981 GTS Carrara white / VW Golf GTI 5dr DSG Tornado Red


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    dreamcar:
    reginos:
    dreamcar:
    reginos:

    If Porsche wish to regain the lead in this segment they must offer 6 cylinder engines.

    Another point is that the Z4 clientele (even the M40)  wouldn't care too much about lap times and dynamic nuances. They would be more than satisfied with the style and the cultured refinement of the Z4, its undemanding turn of speed when they choose to go fast and the good quality that all recent BMWs offer.

    IMO most car magazines are very removed from the criteria of the buying public.

    Agree 100% with offering a six cylinder engine option! Every time I drive a 718 I come away loving the car but hating the engine!

    I find no logic in the 4 cylinder strategy.

    By how much have Porsche dropped their average emissions or fuel consumption by the theoretically cleaner and economical small 4 cylinders. I wonder Smiley

    Maybe also the four cylinder “affordable” Porsche also makes a much bigger gulf between it and the much more expensive - and presumably profitable 991? Previous advances in the 981 made it much closer than ever before.

    Porsche could have kept the Boxster/Cayman with the older normally aspirated 6 cylinder engines now that the 911s are offered with turbocharging that can give much higher outputs for any capacity. Thus they could vary the gulf between models accordingly.

     


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    reginos:
    dreamcar:
    reginos:
    dreamcar:
    reginos:

    If Porsche wish to regain the lead in this segment they must offer 6 cylinder engines.

    Another point is that the Z4 clientele (even the M40)  wouldn't care too much about lap times and dynamic nuances. They would be more than satisfied with the style and the cultured refinement of the Z4, its undemanding turn of speed when they choose to go fast and the good quality that all recent BMWs offer.

    IMO most car magazines are very removed from the criteria of the buying public.

    Agree 100% with offering a six cylinder engine option! Every time I drive a 718 I come away loving the car but hating the engine!

    I find no logic in the 4 cylinder strategy.

    By how much have Porsche dropped their average emissions or fuel consumption by the theoretically cleaner and economical small 4 cylinders. I wonder Smiley

    Maybe also the four cylinder “affordable” Porsche also makes a much bigger gulf between it and the much more expensive - and presumably profitable 991? Previous advances in the 981 made it much closer than ever before.

    Porsche could have kept the Boxster/Cayman with the older normally aspirated 6 cylinder engines now that the 911s are offered with turbocharging that can give much higher outputs for any capacity. Thus they could vary the gulf between models accordingly.

     

    It’s sad that after 15 years and five Porsche’s there is not a model that I could justify the expense on purchasing that appeals. (Money aside I would have a 991/2 GTS Coupe in a heartbeat)


    --

     

    Porsche Boxster 981 GTS Carrara white / VW Golf GTI 5dr DSG Tornado Red

     


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    The first thing BMW needs to do is get rid of run flat tires. Replacing them with non-run flat tires dramatically improves the feel and responsiveness of the car, IMO. They make some really good engines, but have made some poor decisions elsewhere, including design. 


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    JoeRockhead:

    The first thing BMW needs to do is get rid of run flat tires. Replacing them with non-run flat tires dramatically improves the feel and responsiveness of the car, IMO. They make some really good engines, but have made some poor decisions elsewhere, including design. 

    Their more serious models come with normal tyres. On the rest of their cars the customer can opt out of run-flats.

    For the more functional versions IMO run-flats are very practical in that the owner has one less thing to worry about in his daily routines.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    reginos:
    JoeRockhead:

    The first thing BMW needs to do is get rid of run flat tires. Replacing them with non-run flat tires dramatically improves the feel and responsiveness of the car, IMO. They make some really good engines, but have made some poor decisions elsewhere, including design. 

    Their more serious models come with normal tyres. On the rest of their cars the customer can opt out of run-flats.

    For the more functional versions IMO run-flats are very practical in that the owner has one less thing to worry about in his daily routines.

    Yes, but the convenience comes with a compromise.


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    reginos:
    JoeRockhead:

    The first thing BMW needs to do is get rid of run flat tires. Replacing them with non-run flat tires dramatically improves the feel and responsiveness of the car, IMO. They make some really good engines, but have made some poor decisions elsewhere, including design. 

    Their more serious models come with normal tyres. On the rest of their cars the customer can opt out of run-flats.

    For the more functional versions IMO run-flats are very practical in that the owner has one less thing to worry about in his daily routines.

    I had run flats on the BMW 123d I had a few years back.Ironically I had more punctures with the run-flats than any others, probably co incidence. They get you home, much better than being stranded in the middle of nowhere with nothing but a can of goo to try and repair the puncture,  but invariably need replacing if they have been driven any distance when deflated and very expensive to replace too! If I can I always opt for a proper spare wheel and jack when I can.


    --

    Porsche Boxster 981 GTS Carrara white / VW Golf GTI 5dr DSG Tornado Red


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    dreamcar:
    reginos:
    JoeRockhead:

    The first thing BMW needs to do is get rid of run flat tires. Replacing them with non-run flat tires dramatically improves the feel and responsiveness of the car, IMO. They make some really good engines, but have made some poor decisions elsewhere, including design. 

    Their more serious models come with normal tyres. On the rest of their cars the customer can opt out of run-flats.

    For the more functional versions IMO run-flats are very practical in that the owner has one less thing to worry about in his daily routines.

    I had run flats on the BMW 123d I had a few years back.Ironically I had more punctures with the run-flats than any others, probably co incidence. They get you home, much better than being stranded in the middle of nowhere with nothing but a can of goo to try and repair the puncture,  but invariably need replacing if they have been driven any distance when deflated and very expensive to replace too! If I can I always opt for a proper spare wheel and jack when I can.

    There was an issue with Goodyear RFT tires on the 5 Series cars a few years ago. Something like hitting a pot hole would cause the sidewall to bulge, which would necessitate a replacement. On one 550 I know of, the owner had to replace 11 tires in 3 years. Luckily they purchased the BMW road hazard warranty which covers the replacement cost,  but it was obviously inconvenient. Makes you question why BMW uses them, other than to reduce weight by eliminating the spare.


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    Porker:

    Aside from the driving, just what is going on with BMW styling these days? The new 3er looks horrible, the X4 makes a Pontiac Aztec look good, the X7 and the 8er are plain tacky, ...

    They used to be so elegant.

    you can't imagine the people driving these cars here...perfect match Smiley

    the new car audience and taste are way above what we can imagine...Smiley

    BMW lost all its appeal.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    the-missile:
    Porker:

    Aside from the driving, just what is going on with BMW styling these days? The new 3er looks horrible, the X4 makes a Pontiac Aztec look good, the X7 and the 8er are plain tacky, ...

    They used to be so elegant.

    you can't imagine the people driving these cars here...perfect match Smiley

    the new car audience and taste are way above what we can imagine...Smiley

    BMW lost all its appeal.

    I guess they're just listening to the market and following the money. You would hope they wouldn't sell their soul in doing so but they did...


    --

    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    Porker:

    I guess they're just listening to the market and following the money. You would hope they wouldn't sell their soul in doing so but they did...

    many brands are doing that...the future is tacky and tasteless expensive possibilities to be the proud owner of 1 of 1...Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    Which is why classics are gathering more and more appeal I guess...


    --

    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    JoeRockhead:
    reginos:
    JoeRockhead:

    The first thing BMW needs to do is get rid of run flat tires. Replacing them with non-run flat tires dramatically improves the feel and responsiveness of the car, IMO. They make some really good engines, but have made some poor decisions elsewhere, including design. 

    Their more serious models come with normal tyres. On the rest of their cars the customer can opt out of run-flats.

    For the more functional versions IMO run-flats are very practical in that the owner has one less thing to worry about in his daily routines.

    Yes, but the convenience comes with a compromise.

    The BMW I drive came with Continental PremiumContact 2 run flat tyres 205/50-17 and I was surprised how good the ride is. The suspension is normal not M sport but still I was worried that the tyres might be harsh and I was thinking of opting for normal tyres when ordering.

    The steering and handling are satisfactory on these tyres, given the type of car and the required use of the car.

    Any prejudice for run flats is unjustified IMO as far as normal cars are concerned.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    the-missile:
    Porker:

    I guess they're just listening to the market and following the money. You would hope they wouldn't sell their soul in doing so but they did...

    many brands are doing that...the future is tacky and tasteless expensive possibilities to be the proud owner of 1 of 1...Smiley

    Which contemporary car(s) do you consider beautiful?

    Cars of the 50s-70s were designed with classical beauty aesthetics which appealed to Europeans (the main buying group at that time), with lots of curves and nice, smooth surfaces which always please the eye. Contemporary cars are inspired by the sci-fi-technological aesthetics which please the new clientele that is a global one.

    See how well Lexus cars and some Toyota are received with their Asian design taste. Such shapes were not accepted 30-40 years ago and Japanese cars tried to imitate the European style in order to have a chance in the western markets.

    Taste in Women has also changed. Most of the 60s-80s stars wouldn't stand a chance to day Smiley


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    Whoopsy:

    it will be a better car if they put the M5's TT V8 in it.....................

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    it will be a better car if they put the M5's TT V8 in it.....................

    Smiley Smiley

    Much more weight compared to the straight 6 with -ve effect on weight distribution and handling


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    reginos:

    Which contemporary car(s) do you consider beautiful?

    recently, I would say Mercedes is still classy (S-class is still nice).

    Rolls & Bentley sedan remain classy depending on the spec...

    911 is beautiful.

    Limited varieties to be honest. Smiley

    Cars of the 50s-70s were designed with classical beauty aesthetics which appealed to Europeans (the main buying group at that time), with lots of curves and nice, smooth surfaces which always please the eye. Contemporary cars are inspired by the sci-fi-technological aesthetics which please the new clientele that is a global one.

    I am in the new clientele side as I am only 34y... 50 to 60s cars have appeal and pretty much all generations of cars have except the past I would say 2 to 3 years where it is taking a strange direction. good part of it, it will be a super saving process on my side Smiley

    See how well Lexus cars and some Toyota are received with their Asian design taste. Such shapes were not accepted 30-40 years ago and Japanese cars tried to imitate the European style in order to have a chance in the western markets.

    these brands are cheap in their respective markets. they still remain abomination if you have some taste.Smiley

    Taste in Women has also changed. Most of the 60s-80s stars wouldn't stand a chance to day Smiley

    here in UAE, men/women ratio is like 90/10...anything stands a chance...Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    the-missile:
    reginos:

    Which contemporary car(s) do you consider beautiful?

    recently, I would say Mercedes is still classy (S-class is still nice).

    Rolls & Bentley sedan remain classy depending on the spec...

    911 is beautiful.

    Limited varieties to be honest. Smiley

    I also think that these designs are very attractive. Because they use the classic design language gradually and carefully modernized. Nothing in excess.

    I am disappointed with Ferrari recently. Their priorities have changed it seems.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    reginos:
     

    The BMW I drive came with Continental PremiumContact 2 run flat tyres 205/50-17 and I was surprised how good the ride is. The suspension is normal not M sport but still I was worried that the tyres might be harsh and I was thinking of opting for normal tyres when ordering.

    The steering and handling are satisfactory on these tyres, given the type of car and the required use of the car.

    Any prejudice for run flats is unjustified IMO as far as normal cars are concerned.

    Depends on what you define as a normal car. They would be fine on Polo or base Focus, but then they are more expensive than standard tires, lose their tread life faster and cost more to replace, not to mention that they can't be repaired. This makes it unlikely that they would ship with low cost vehicles.

    Eagle F1 RFT tires come as standard on the 340 with M Sport suspension. They are 255 45 19 on the back I believe, and are not all season. When you drive on the highway, the stiff sidewalls of the run flats make the car "tram" in the ruts. Hitting the slightest pot hole results in a jarring impact, and they are more prone to damage. Also, I have read several comments in BMW forums from people who have swapped them with comparable non-RFT tires, and not person has regretted doing so. Most say it improves the feel and handling considerably. On previous cars I have used non-RFT winter tires, and the car is noticeably more enjoyable to drive with them. Regardless, I won't buy another car with them as they are more trouble than they are worth.


    Re: New Z4 is out; review is...meh?

    I agree that the 340 is more on the performance side and probably it feels and handles better on normal tyres,  for the person who cares about more accurate car handling. Besides if someone fits M sport suspension by definition this person is a fan of sport driving and run-flats deduct something from the precision of the dynamic character of the car.

    For a large variety of people in cars with less performance or powerful cars used mostly for cruising and daily use run-flats remove a big headache of car ownership, that is having to fix a flat tyre on the spot or wait for road assistance to remove your car.

    BTW if you fix and inflate a normal tyre by using this foam provided with cars without a spare wheel, you still have to fit a new tyre eventually as the speed rating of the repaired tyre is negated.

     


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    586576 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/30/20 9:03 AM
    rhino
     
     
     
     
     
    359349 1279
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/10/21 2:32 PM
    Joost
    87137 1085
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 5/12/21 3:30 PM
    WhoopsyM
    45565 344
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    35715 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    33583 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/11/21 3:34 PM
    watt
    17035 344
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    4750 29
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 7/27/20 2:13 AM
    DJM48
    566886 5257
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
    408663 3586
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/25/21 4:04 PM
    Topspeed
    359035 3916
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 4/29/21 7:24 AM
    GnilM
    356640 3494
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    318360 3252
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    310353 2646
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/28/21 8:05 PM
    Topspeed
    219325 1542
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    197500 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    161457 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    138368 792
    Porsche 992 GT3 5/18/21 11:19 PM
    xpto
    123322 2376
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    107012 1225
    McLaren F1 2/25/21 11:33 AM
    RCA
    77421 207
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 5/18/21 6:01 PM
    WhoopsyM
    71582 1164
    AMG AMG GT R 11/19/20 11:47 PM
    Topspeed
    65244 819
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/20/21 3:21 PM
    CGX car nut
    64306 683
    Porsche 991 Speedster 9/3/20 4:29 PM
    Topspeed
    57752 878
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    43594 596
    Others Bugatti Chiron 4/12/21 3:42 PM
    RCA
    36782 476
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    34278 615
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 5/19/21 12:10 AM
    rhino
    31547 486
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 3/21/21 5:01 PM
    Topspeed
    28878 385
    272 items found, displaying 1 to 30.