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    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Gnil:

    Kreso : What is soon ?  I am getting very inpatient . The wait has been soooo long mail   

    But as time passes, If I were at P HD I would also seriously think about skipping 991.1RS as it is getting way to long into the production cycle ( FL of Carrera just around the corner )  +  NA engine might indeed not be ideal for the future racing homologations . 

    And what is sky high for the price ????  more then 20-30 K more then GT3 ?


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Since this leak which Porsche is directly responsible for official intro could be in July. But, start of sale for sure end of 2014 in that case.

    Price? Between base 991T and 991TS....


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Looks too busy IMHO....The air intakes on the front fenders and Turbo intakes, makes this car look like Porsche salad...


    --


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Wonder if the strange things at P HQ is also tied to the recent events at Le Mans.  Someone had mentioned that Piech went to a Le Mans bar, where the P team were after the race, and asked them to leave as there was nothing to celebrate.  


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Wow... if that is true, then that is VERY harsh.
    These guys gave it their all and have put down a stunning performance. The cars broke down after putting up such  fantastic fight.

    BTW, on the track, the radio speakers were implying/reasoning that the 919s broke down due to the hybrid system regenerating too much energy. At certain areas, the hybrid system could not be charged further, so the energy needs to be dissipated in different ways (aka "brake discs")... not sure whether this speculation was correct though. I can hardly imagine that the engineers weren't able to predict how much energy regeneration was going to happen and create a car that can't use it's old-fashioned brakes alone.


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Joost:

    Wow... if that is true, then that is VERY harsh.
    These guys gave it their all and have put down a stunning performance. The cars broke down after putting up such  fantastic fight.

    BTW, on the track, the radio speakers were implying/reasoning that the 919s broke down due to the hybrid system regenerating too much energy. At certain areas, the hybrid system could not be charged further, so the energy needs to be dissipated in different ways (aka "brake discs")... not sure whether this speculation was correct though. I can hardly imagine that the engineers weren't able to predict how much energy regeneration was going to happen and create a car that can't use it's old-fashioned brakes alone.

    One does not see this as being very harsh, especially when one considers the amount of capital, both financial and human, invested in the 919 project as well as the public relations effort undertaken.  Several rumors place the 919 project at over $200 million, and the car has had a comparatively long development cycle, with the car debuting in June of last year.  This time was to be dedicated to testing, testing, and testing with the desired outcome of reliability plus speed for the entire 24 hour period - Porsche is the crown jewel in the Volkswagen empire and expectations are set high.

    Similarly Toyota, while fast, proved unreliable too.  Many factors are known about Le Mans and those factors do not deviate from year to year.  Audi, through preparation, pushed both Porsche and Toyota to the breaking point and this is very impressive considering that Audi #1 was built up over an evening just days before the race. 


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    CGX car nut:
    Joost:

    Wow... if that is true, then that is VERY harsh.
    These guys gave it their all and have put down a stunning performance. The cars broke down after putting up such  fantastic fight.

    BTW, on the track, the radio speakers were implying/reasoning that the 919s broke down due to the hybrid system regenerating too much energy. At certain areas, the hybrid system could not be charged further, so the energy needs to be dissipated in different ways (aka "brake discs")... not sure whether this speculation was correct though. I can hardly imagine that the engineers weren't able to predict how much energy regeneration was going to happen and create a car that can't use it's old-fashioned brakes alone.

    One does not see this as being very harsh, especially when one considers the amount of capital, both financial and human, invested in the 919 project as well as the public relations effort undertaken.  Several rumors place the 919 project at over $200 million, and the car has had a comparatively long development cycle, with the car debuting in June of last year.  This time was to be dedicated to testing, testing, and testing with the desired outcome of reliability plus speed for the entire 24 hour period - Porsche is the crown jewel in the Volkswagen empire and expectations are set high.

    Similarly Toyota, while fast, proved unreliable too.  Many factors are known about Le Mans and those factors do not deviate from year to year.  Audi, through preparation, pushed both Porsche and Toyota to the breaking point and this is very impressive considering that Audi #1 was built up over an evening just days before the race. 


    Very good analysis, exactly my thoughts. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    CGX car nut:
     

    One does not see this as being very harsh, especially when one considers the amount of capital, both financial and human, invested in the 919 project as well as the public relations effort undertaken.  Several rumors place the 919 project at over $200 million, and the car has had a comparatively long development cycle, with the car debuting in June of last year.  This time was to be dedicated to testing, testing, and testing with the desired outcome of reliability plus speed for the entire 24 hour period - Porsche is the crown jewel in the Volkswagen empire and expectations are set high.

    Similarly Toyota, while fast, proved unreliable too.  Many factors are known about Le Mans and those factors do not deviate from year to year.  Audi, through preparation, pushed both Porsche and Toyota to the breaking point and this is very impressive considering that Audi #1 was built up over an evening just days before the race. 

     

    Not really, in Piech's mind Audi is still HIS baby and hence the favored son within the empire even when he is technically in the Porsche family.

     


    --

     


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    From a business stand point , the Wall Street Journal stated today  in not a nice way regarding VW Group pitting corporate siblings Audi against Porsche at LeMans   : " one  of the most expensive examples of ( corporate ) team - building ever  " , LOL. 


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    CGX car nut:

    Wonder if the strange things at P HQ is also tied to the recent events at Le Mans.  Someone had mentioned that Piech went to a Le Mans bar, where the P team were after the race, and asked them to leave as there was nothing to celebrate.  

    I'm not completely on board with this.

    I have seen no pictures of Piech at Le Mans. I have seen pictures of Dr. Wolfgang Porsche  at Le Mans. (That of course does not mean that Piech was not there) Dr. W. Porsche is in fact the Chairman of the supervisory board, so if Piech did in fact behave in such a boorish manner, it would have been ethical to do so with the agreement from Dr. W. Porsche. I doubt Dr. Porsche would have given carte blanche to this. It does nothing for morale and solves none of the issues that they have with the car.

    I suspect that this was a rumor initiated and circulated by the sister company Audi.

     


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    CGX car nut:
    Joost:

    Wow... if that is true, then that is VERY harsh.
    These guys gave it their all and have put down a stunning performance. The cars broke down after putting up such  fantastic fight.

    BTW, on the track, the radio speakers were implying/reasoning that the 919s broke down due to the hybrid system regenerating too much energy. At certain areas, the hybrid system could not be charged further, so the energy needs to be dissipated in different ways (aka "brake discs")... not sure whether this speculation was correct though. I can hardly imagine that the engineers weren't able to predict how much energy regeneration was going to happen and create a car that can't use it's old-fashioned brakes alone.

    One does not see this as being very harsh, especially when one considers the amount of capital, both financial and human, invested in the 919 project as well as the public relations effort undertaken.  Several rumors place the 919 project at over $200 million, and the car has had a comparatively long development cycle, with the car debuting in June of last year.  This time was to be dedicated to testing, testing, and testing with the desired outcome of reliability plus speed for the entire 24 hour period - Porsche is the crown jewel in the Volkswagen empire and expectations are set high.

    Similarly Toyota, while fast, proved unreliable too.  Many factors are known about Le Mans and those factors do not deviate from year to year.  Audi, through preparation, pushed both Porsche and Toyota to the breaking point and this is very impressive considering that Audi #1 was built up over an evening just days before the race. 

    Whilst I'm the first to be unimpressed with the 919's performance at Le Mans, it would be unhinged and uninformed to think that Porsche would come away with a victory at Le Mans in their first outing after 16 years.  (They almost did, but not so much due to their performance , but rather fruit of their competitor's mistakes and misfortunes).

    Having said that, my disappointment lies in the fact that the car showed a lack of race pace (see my post in the Motorsport section). Considering that the car was designed specifically for Le Mans, it clearly did not match up with expectations. 

    Porsche had two objectives; One was to go for pole, and the other was to get at least one car to the finish. It failed both.

    This, however, is motorsport. There are never any guarantees. 

    All was not bad. There were some positives and Porsche learned a lot from this outing.

    They are already working on the new 2015 car. Lets keep our fingers crossed.

     

     

     


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    CGX car nut:

    Wonder if the strange things at P HQ is also tied to the recent events at Le Mans.  Someone had mentioned that Piech went to a Le Mans bar, where the P team were after the race, and asked them to leave as there was nothing to celebrate.  

    This most probably  falls in the urban myth category. But if it keeps being circulated it will end up as fact.

    We don't know if in this story Piech was supposed to be critical or sarcastic with his reaction Smiley

    Porsche were away for too long and it is too difficult to catch up. From endurance racing leaders they have become followers and poor relatives to Audi, thanks to the Wiedeking years.

    The LM 2014 was an honourable defeat in the sense that the cars lasted until near the end, they were running near the front and the 919 went down fighting. Nevertheless, it was a defeat in the hands of both Audi and Toyota.

    True, no reason to celebrate.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    By some rumors Porsche budget for this year is around 400 millions.

    Talking about brakes issue. All hybrid racers have to use smaller brake discs - F1 from this year too. And if regeneration breakes than brakes start to overheat and car dies. It can't race anymore without brake change, but brakes change helps only for a couple laps, then brakes die again. This issue is well detalised in racecar engineering article about toyota ts040.

    For 20 car I tend to believe it was an engine problem, not brakes one. For 14 car - gearbox. If Porsche didn't start to battle with Audi then I believe they could finish 2nd, but they played the game and lost.

    To me, considering stages in Silverstone and SPA it was also very strange to see that 919 can't keep the pace of Audi and Toyota, but possibly for 24 hours race Porsche, not being sure in reliability has chosen to ride in economic way - low power engine map and low fuel consumption.

    Now waiting for next Le Mans!) Porsche returned to win and invests top team F1 budget. Fingers crossed.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:
    CGX car nut:

    Wonder if the strange things at P HQ is also tied to the recent events at Le Mans.  Someone had mentioned that Piech went to a Le Mans bar, where the P team were after the race, and asked them to leave as there was nothing to celebrate.  

    I'm not completely on board with this.

    I have seen no pictures of Piech at Le Mans. I have seen pictures of Dr. Wolfgang Porsche  at Le Mans. (That of course does not mean that Piech was not there) Dr. W. Porsche is in fact the Chairman of the supervisory board, so if Piech did in fact behave in such a boorish manner, it would have been ethical to do so with the agreement from Dr. W. Porsche. I doubt Dr. Porsche would have given carte blanche to this. It does nothing for morale and solves none of the issues that they have with the car.

    I suspect that this was a rumor initiated and circulated by the sister company Audi.

     

    I heard about this incident from a friend who was a Le Mans and not prone to hyperbole.  


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    kudryavchik:

    By some rumors Porsche budget for this year is around 400 millions.

     

    and you better believe every $. of the ongoing annual cost to compete at LeMans will be baked into  what they charge for every car they sell

     

     


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    MKW:
    kudryavchik:

    By some rumors Porsche budget for this year is around 400 millions.

     

    and you better believe every $. of the ongoing annual cost to compete at LeMans will be baked into  what they charge for every car they sell

    The technology and experience will trickle down to the consumer models so I don't see an issue with motorsport driven development.

    Everyone and their grandmother have been crying like girliemen about the GT3 engine not being used in motorsport so I don't think we now need to have an issue with LeMans.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    bluelines:
    MKW:
    kudryavchik:

    By some rumors Porsche budget for this year is around 400 millions.

    and you better believe every $. of the ongoing annual cost to compete at LeMans will be baked into  what they charge for every car they sell

    The technology and experience will trickle down to the consumer models so I don't see an issue with motorsport driven development.

    Everyone and their grandmother have been crying like girliemen about the GT3 engine not being used in motorsport so I don't think we now need to have an issue with LeMans.

    And every technology company -- and Porsche is a technology company -- has to invest money in R&D. This is not really that significant an amount, all things considered, for their R&D budget.


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    CGX car nut:
    Spyderidol:
    CGX car nut:

    Wonder if the strange things at P HQ is also tied to the recent events at Le Mans.  Someone had mentioned that Piech went to a Le Mans bar, where the P team were after the race, and asked them to leave as there was nothing to celebrate.  

    I'm not completely on board with this.

    I have seen no pictures of Piech at Le Mans. I have seen pictures of Dr. Wolfgang Porsche  at Le Mans. (That of course does not mean that Piech was not there) Dr. W. Porsche is in fact the Chairman of the supervisory board, so if Piech did in fact behave in such a boorish manner, it would have been ethical to do so with the agreement from Dr. W. Porsche. I doubt Dr. Porsche would have given carte blanche to this. It does nothing for morale and solves none of the issues that they have with the car.

    I suspect that this was a rumor initiated and circulated by the sister company Audi.

     

    I heard about this incident from a friend who was a Le Mans and not prone to hyperbole.  

    Maybe...but this video does not support this narrative: http://t.co/kVqm0VmlcQ


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    apias:
    bluelines:
    MKW:
    kudryavchik:

    By some rumors Porsche budget for this year is around 400 millions.

    and you better believe every $. of the ongoing annual cost to compete at LeMans will be baked into  what they charge for every car they sell

    The technology and experience will trickle down to the consumer models so I don't see an issue with motorsport driven development.

    Everyone and their grandmother have been crying like girliemen about the GT3 engine not being used in motorsport so I don't think we now need to have an issue with LeMans.

    And every technology company -- and Porsche is a technology company -- has to invest money in R&D. This is not really that significant an amount, all things considered, for their R&D budget.

    Indeed! Both Marketing and R&D driven. Porsche can't expect to launch and sell SUV's (and have them as their top selling models) and four door saloons for ever without taking a hit to their "sports-car" image. Sports-car racing and especially Le Mans is what cemented that image in the first place, and they are out to reclaim it.


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:
    apias:
    bluelines:
    MKW:
    kudryavchik:

    By some rumors Porsche budget for this year is around 400 millions.

    and you better believe every $. of the ongoing annual cost to compete at LeMans will be baked into  what they charge for every car they sell

    The technology and experience will trickle down to the consumer models so I don't see an issue with motorsport driven development.

    Everyone and their grandmother have been crying like girliemen about the GT3 engine not being used in motorsport so I don't think we now need to have an issue with LeMans.

    And every technology company -- and Porsche is a technology company -- has to invest money in R&D. This is not really that significant an amount, all things considered, for their R&D budget.

    Indeed! Both Marketing and R&D driven. Porsche can't expect to launch and sell SUV's (and have them as their top selling models) and four door saloons for ever without taking a hit to their "sports-car" image. Sports-car racing and especially Le Mans is what cemented that image in the first place, and they are out to reclaim it.

    Smiley Smiley Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Seems their Marketing was and is effective. Q.e.d.


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Again: where is Targa Turbo??


    --


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Is this like finding Waldo?


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SportCarGroup:

    Again: where is Targa Turbo??

    Seriously?? Nobody? Nothing? RC, you once said it's in the pipeline....any updates? Kreso?


    --


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SportCarGroup:
    SportCarGroup:

    Again: where is Targa Turbo??

    Seriously?? Nobody? Nothing? RC, you once said it's in the pipeline....any updates? Kreso?

    This forum has lost interest in the 991. It is all about the Corvette and M4 now Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    bluelines:
    SportCarGroup:
    SportCarGroup:

    Again: where is Targa Turbo??

    Seriously?? Nobody? Nothing? RC, you once said it's in the pipeline....any updates? Kreso?

    This forum has lost interest in the 991. It is all about the Corvette and M4 now Smiley

            And some Chrysler Jeep productsSmiley 


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    JimFlat6:
    bluelines:
    SportCarGroup:
    SportCarGroup:

    Again: where is Targa Turbo??

    Seriously?? Nobody? Nothing? RC, you once said it's in the pipeline....any updates? Kreso?

    This forum has lost interest in the 991. It is all about the Corvette and M4 now Smiley

            And some Chrysler Jeep productsSmiley

    Smiley

    www.rennjeep.comSmiley

     


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    bluelines:
    JimFlat6:
    bluelines:
    SportCarGroup:
    SportCarGroup:

    Again: where is Targa Turbo??

    Seriously?? Nobody? Nothing? RC, you once said it's in the pipeline....any updates? Kreso?

    This forum has lost interest in the 991. It is all about the Corvette and M4 now Smiley

            And some Chrysler Jeep productsSmiley

    Smiley

    www.rennjeep.comSmiley

     

    Smiley


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    rennjeep.com/jeepsrt/dodgehellcatcomingsoontogermany.com  indecision


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Porsche 991 GT3 RS testing alongside 991 GT3...

    Porsche 991 GT3 RS testing alongside 991 GT3 -- Article Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: 991 spy shots 2ND THREAD (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    ...alongside the Cayman GT4 


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


     
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