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    Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Trying to get answers to these questions about Turbo:

    I know front axle and rear axle will be given power depending on what the car is doing traction-wise.

    Do individual wheels on _same_ axle get power, or is it both wheels or nothing?

    I understand how PSM works (I hope) but does it work in concert with the Traction Management of the Turbo?

    Finally, when you lose grip on a turn is it better to let go of everything or keep foot on gas so TMS and PSM can work together?

    IOW, if you put foot on brake (or off gas) it seems TMS will NOT work at all, leaving all the corrective action to PSM (principally the ABS).


    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    MMD, you need this car BAD! Then you could find these things out for yourself. My suggestion would be test this stuff out on a track with lots of run out areas, or at an autocross course. If you ever loose it just open the canopy, press the eject buttom and punch out of it.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Also, remember: In a spin all feet in. When it lets loose, hitting the gas may save it, but if not you'll just hit the shrubbery that much harder.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Quote:
    Over the Hill said:
    MMD, you need this car BAD! Then you could find these things out for yourself. My suggestion would be test this stuff out on a track with lots of run out areas, or at an autocross course. If you ever loose it just open the canopy, press the eject buttom and punch out of it.




    LOL! Yeah I agree. AWWWWWGGGH!

    Meanwhile I'm reduced to playing the role of the student automotive engineer just wanting to know how things work.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Meanwhile I'm reduced to playing the role of the student automotive engineer just wanting to know how things work.



    I hear ya...


    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Do individual wheels on _same_ axle get power, or is it both wheels or nothing?




    Unless the car incorporates a locking differential (as you know, an option for the rear axle) the power is applied to the tire with the lower amount of resistance (e.g. due to a icy patch or a surface of similiar low friction). Most current traction systems dismiss the more expensive locking differentials and apply the brakes instead.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    How can you be a 911 owner and still be asking these questions? I agree with OvertheHill - learn for yourself on a track safely. No point in providing you answers that you may misinterpret/misapply.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    How can you be a 911 owner and still be asking these questions? I agree with OvertheHill - learn for yourself on a track safely. No point in providing you answers that you may misinterpret/misapply.





    How about providing the correct answers to _engineering_ questions? _Or_ just realize you don't know the correct answers or keep quiet.

    I would also greatly prefer it if you would stop playing mind-reader, fortune teller or pop psychologist with me when you reply to my posts. Ok?

    Thank you.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:
    How can you be a 911 owner and still be asking these questions? I agree with OvertheHill - learn for yourself on a track safely. No point in providing you answers that you may misinterpret/misapply.





    How about providing the correct answers to _engineering_ questions? _Or_ just realize you don't know the correct answers or keep quiet.

    I would also greatly prefer it if you would stop playing mind-reader, fortune teller or pop psychologist with me when you reply to my posts. Ok?

    Thank you.



    These are GOOD questions! I'm interested to hear peoples knowledgeable opinions and experiences too.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:
    How can you be a 911 owner and still be asking these questions? I agree with OvertheHill - learn for yourself on a track safely. No point in providing you answers that you may misinterpret/misapply.





    How about providing the correct answers to _engineering_ questions? _Or_ just realize you don't know the correct answers or keep quiet.

    I would also greatly prefer it if you would stop playing mind-reader, fortune teller or pop psychologist with me when you reply to my posts. Ok?

    Thank you.




    Sensitive, uh?

    "Mind reader, pop psychologist" ? me? Does the hat fit you?

    My reply stands. You - a purported 911 experienced driver - should know this stuff. Others can search the forum for answers many times repeated. No one should take the potential liability to answering these questions... think about it.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Quote:
    ADias said:

    Sensitive, uh?





    Yeah..., probably..., sorry..., I misinterpreted what you said.


    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    No one should take the potential liability to answering these questions... think about it.



    That's a valid point.

    Whilst nobody is likely to get sued for any answers given in an internet forum in this context, there could still be a potential "moral" liability.

    The internet is no place to learn how to deal with a skid. One should either take the trouble to attend a "real" driver ed course, or resign oneself to the fact that one will not "really" know how to deal with the situation when it really arises.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Aside from liability issues, I suspect issues of real-world skid management have variables that even a DE course may not successfully address (and may in fact provide a false sense of knowledge/judgment/skill)...

    Have read much of the tech stuff re: these cars....theory and claims (in various controlled settings) mean very little to me, unless stuff works in real-world messy situations ....would argue one best understands dynamics of own car on public roads largely via driving expce (esp w/precise, safe driving even in mundane commuting....find it hard to believe, no matter how many DEs one attends, that guys who drive some POS SUV 90% of time, often where driving is stop-and-go grind on flat, straight roads, will be particularly adept drivers during some ?40 fair-weather, wkend days/yr (40/yr in CA; some 20/yr ex-CA) they actually drive an alleged sportscar....to golf club or dinner w/the wife ) and appropriate risk/reward judgments, always leaving ample margin for error, given the numerous dynamic/environmental (i.e., other cars/drivers) variables one cannot easily predict instantaneously on a public road when an emergent situation arises....

    Need to consider (esp for public roads) behavior of car/tires/brakes/chassis/stab ctrls/ABS, etc vs wet (various degrees of water on roads)/dry; bumpy/smooth; flat/hills/camber changes of road; neighboring cars in lanes/oncoming/tailgating cars, etc etc...

    Would observe that difficult to scientifically quantitate braking in wet w/various perf tires (and how do perf tires behave/decay after 1K vs 5K vs 10K mis?)&chassis parameters; PCCB vs steel; does PCCB (or steel brakes) become water-logged (and slower/less effective to respond) after cruising in heavy rain w/o periodic applic of brakes????

    W/each of these cars, even for those capable drivers accustomed to daily-driving many new P/F/AMG on fast, hilly, bumpy, dense-traffic fwys/roads, need at least a few hundred miles in varying conds w/a few "dry run" evasive maneuvers on empty roads and real-world emgcy maneuvers to really become more comfortable w/any car....am familiar w/996TTS, but found various subtle, but important, chassis/stab ctrls/braking/tires diffces vs 997TT, esp seen in various, real-world, stress situations...

    To me, the learning curve involved in understanding the dynamic nuances of each new, latest/greatest-tech car is incredibly enjoyable, whether in mundane daily commuting (even on a winter rainy day in dense traffic, dodging flipped-over, allegedly-invicible SUVs ) or on a sunny wkend drive in a favorite set of empty twisties....

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    p26

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    p27

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    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Stradale post refreshed my memory and I dug into my P-car vault and here it is - 911TT - Product Information

    This should help MMD and other members.

    Enjoy!

    P.S. - I will keep this on my server for a while but not indefinitely.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Awwwww Geeeeez! You guys are GREAT! Thanks a million for the reference materials. I will study it carefully!

    If I were your neighbor I'd come over and wash and wax your cars (with the utmost awareness of proper wash/wax techniques) to return the favor!

    Thanks!


    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Now some candy...

    My favorite 997TT shot along the Salt Flats. I drove that same long straight (30 miles +) a couple of months ago at triple digits - a blast




    AND... some priceless 997TT cutouts.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Nice posts! Thanks guys - in all my digging around various brochures, web sites and promotional packages I had not seen that info presented at that level of detail. Will enjoy reading it thoroughly.

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Awwwww Geeeeez! You guys are GREAT! Thanks a million for the reference materials. I will study it carefully!

    One caution here. You can read/study all this stuff, but until you feel it working through the seat of your pants you'll not know how YOU or the car will react. That can only be properly learned in a track environment and on a skid pad. Don't get me wrong. I am not a promoter of tracking your car, but a beginner driving skills class in your own car will give you the confidence in your cars capabilities that can be applied to everyday driving situations. Then it just becomes a matter of seat time. (I'm sure the track junkies can straighten me out on this concept.)

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    DEFinitely Over the Hill, you are correct, thanks.

    I did a BMW driving weekend (forgot what they called it) a while ago. Was a BLAST! Gotta do the Porsche thing in Birmingham one of these seasons. _DEF_initely!

    Meanwhile I just like to know how the systems work. This way I have something to think about when my wife is telling me all her feelings, dreams and aspirations .




    nah..., just kidding... .

    Re: Traction Management System, PSM, and Skidding

    Drivers education is one important part, understand the technology of the car yet another valuable element.


    Quote:
    MMD said:
    [...] when my wife is telling [...] dreams



    You never know, this could include you!

     
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