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    April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    If Motor Trend is not the worst car magazine available I just don't know what is. I don't even know where to begin, having just read the "Dial 911" article in the April issue. Is a left side ignition really that quirky? And with all the switching between the 997 and the 997S to get the result they want for the article tests, it's hard to follow. The two cars are just not that comparable IMO. And gee, is it really a suprise to anyone that the 911 has some understeer? It seemed to me that they are saying the Z06 is kind of a piece of crap with a really big motor (and cool brakes), but then they rate it a better car (even though it can't really be used on a daily basis) They also rate the Vantage a better car even though the 911 beats it in every performance category. I just don't get this. And their final salutaion to the effect that the Cayman should displace the 911 is just outright offensive to me as a long time 911 owner and enthusiast. I can't believe that I wasted $4 for this drivel.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Yes, I completely agree. It's a pretty worthless magazine. In my thinking the Z06 doesn't really compete with the 997, and if price is the point of comparison, why not just compare to a nicely outfitted Boxster S if you really want to beat up on Porsches in the name national pride. When the Turbo, GT3, and GT2 arrive, those will be more suitable in terms of objective performance, which is all magazines like MT understand. I've gotten to the point that I don't even buy some of these rags anymore, just flip through them at the supermarket. They tell me absolutely nothing about what my next car will be because they are totally unreliable when it comes to describing the driving experience. As others have pointed out, the British magazines are generally better, a bit more balanced. In terms of new magazines, lately I've liked reading Winding Road online.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Why do some of you people take your cars so seriously? U Boat, relax and enjoy it, it's just a car! Who cares what anyone else says about it? Why would you find it offensive that car reviewers prefer one car over another? It's absurdly unreasonable to be offended at that. It's just as absurd for a Cayman owner to feel vindicated by the report. I've reported many problems with my '06 997 C2S and the responses I get from this board are quite defensive and critical of me. This doesn't make any sense at all to me. Hey, guys, enjoy your cars but remember, they're just machines, not your lovers!

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    on the very last page of the Motor Trend (p.168) Chuck Koch summarized it..."No matter what we say... there will always be Corvette and Porsche owners. Neither will acknowledge the other's presence. Both will think they have the better car. The rivarlry will continue."...
    No matter what others say and what they compare the 911 to...
    I still like the feel of the engine in the rear

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Don't worry ......the UK's Sunday Times just dealt with the Z06 :

    Corvette Z06
    By Andrew Frankel of The Sunday Times

    200mph of US muscle takes on the world

    Given that it's one of the few places I visit where I can make myself understood, I never cease to be amazed by how foreign I still find America. I've been to islands off the east coast of Africa and felt more at home. Don't misunderstand me, I enjoy myself in America but I usually come back feeling I'm leaving not so much another country as another planet.

    There can be few aspects of American life that illustrate the vast disparity as perfectly as its car culture. Last year 60% of the cars sold in America by its largest car company, General Motors, weren't cars at all, but what they call trucks - pick-ups and SUVs that would be as suited to British roads as a St Bernard to a greyhound track.

    So spare a thought for those selling us that most American of automotive products, the Corvette. For 50 years the Vette has been the working-class hero of the US car enthusiast. It stands for freedom, power and the right to have Porsche drivers look down their noses at you.

    The problem is that these days General Motors, along with most of the US motor industry, is in deep trouble and cars like the Corvette are going to have to start earning their living in the world's largest car market, otherwise known as Europe.

    The standard Corvette C6 has been on sale in the UK for more than a year and it looks mighty tempting, offering a 400bhp V8 motor and a top speed of 180mph for just Pounds46,550. But the one we've been waiting for is this Z06, a car with a simply extraordinary proposition.

    For less than Pounds60,000 it offers a 7 litre V8 pumping out 512bhp. Its appearance hides the fact that while the standard car has a steel structure, the Z06's is made from aluminium. Additionally, carbon fibre, magnesium and titanium have been used to save further weight.

    They create its real secret, which is its flyweight 1418kg. The most powerful Ferrari, the 540bhp 612 Scaglietti, carries more than 400kg extra bulk, which means that while it has 293bhp for every tonne, the Corvette has an astonishing 361bhp. And it is more than Pounds100,000 cheaper.

    Yes, if the stars at the end of this review were awarded for effort rather than results, the Z06 would earn the full five. As you can see, however, something got badly lost in translation.

    I like big American sports cars, even those that are dynamically pretty incompetent, which is most of them. During my two days in the Z06 I also drove a standard Corvette convertible that shook so violently on a bumpy road that I feared a puncture. But I still enjoyed it for its easy nature and unpretentious honesty. And that is where the Z06 trips up. This is a car that wants to play with the big boys. It has big-boy power and, as its ability to hit 60mph in under 4sec and 200mph show, it has big-boy speed.

    What it lacks are those things you can't point to on a specification sheet. It doesn't have the right balance, for instance. It lacks feel, too, that sense of connecting the driver to the road that Porsche, in particular, does so well. And it lacks poise: it's blindingly quick around a racetrack, but even on smooth dry French lanes its suspension was constantly jiggling me around.

    So what it would be like on a wet, bumpy British back road is something I'd rather not experience.

    When the road runs true and the monumental power reserves can be sampled you can see its point, but then you'll hit a bump or a corner and wish you were in something a lot slower and a lot more fun.

    The left-hand-drive-only Corvette Z06 can be ordered now for Pounds59,000 for delivery in September. But I would advise anyone who wants a Vette to settle for the cheaper, charming and altogether more satisfying standard car. On paper the Z06 looks like the performance bargain of the decade; in reality it is shaping up as a bit of a disappointment.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Motor Trend is CRAP.
    Jeremy Clarkson voted for 997S over Vantage and M6. And he is not really a porsche fan.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    It's so funny that whenever a magazine has a conclusion we don't agree with it's instantly a "crap" magazine....if only life was so simple!

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    My fellow rennteamers please remember one thing. Car mags are for entertainment. They are not the gospel! Who cares what a writer thinks? Do you enjoy your car? I don't understand why we get go bent out of shape when a review comes out that is not 100% for Porsche. I have said it before and I will say it again. If you look to a magazine to verify you buying an 80K+ car then you have bigger issues. Enjoy your 997 and take the car mags with a grain of salt.

    Just my 0.02 before taxes...

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    Motor Trend is CRAP.
    Jeremy Clarkson voted for 997S over Vantage and M6. And he is not really a porsche fan.



    Now that really isn't true...

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Magazine reading and sport car owning/driving may certainly both be classified as entertainment, and are not serious pursuits. However, in the day, a good review would both entertain and enlighten one as to the subtleties of a car's attributes. Even if the ultimate decision-maker is your own subjective seat of the pants feeling, comparison tests may be useful, as even if I test drive three or four sports cars before deciding on a purchase, I can't drive them back to back on road circuit. I still think there has been a qualitative difference in the automobile writing over the years. Some the magazine articles have been truly helpful, and others simply haven't been.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    In the same Sunday Times, Jeremy Clarkson liked the Z06. Now Andrew Finkel isnt exactly the last word about fast cars is he?

    But so what.

    Its what you want to see parked in your garage that really matters. Not some word whore, corporate shill, bellicose tv personality or obnoxious neighbor.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    In the same Sunday Times, Jeremy Clarkson liked the Z06. Now Andrew Finkel isnt exactly the last word about fast cars is he?

    But so what.

    Its what you want to see parked in your garage that really matters. Not some word whore, corporate shill, bellicose tv personality or obnoxious neighbor.


    I don't really care what Mr. Clarkson likes, that's his choice and I believe the Top Gear episode comparo with 997s, AMV8 and M6 I had the impression that he loved the power of the M6, probably enough to haul his 6'6" 250+ lbs of ar** , but he did comment on the rather cumbersome way the M6 had to be prepared before a "launch", that was quite hilarious.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article


    I have to disagree on the issue of Motortrend. I used to consider it the lowest of the low, and they do not always agree with my personal automotive priorities, but in my opinion they provide a lot of interesting industry coverage that the others do not. (They're going a bit too far with their format, though. Those columns that are an inch wide are a bit tough to read.)

    Ultimately, people tend to like the magazines that support their prejudices. But that kind of obedient brand loyalty is sort of sad. Tool of the man type stuff...

    PTM

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    It really is an insult to compare the Z06 to the 997 and997S. The Z06 is way out of their league.

    In performance, price and styling the Z06 absolutely destroys the 997's. The only area which can be compared is "feel" which is as subjective as color biases.

    The Z06 should be compared to the 997TT and only in performance. Price, styling and value all favor the Z06 by a wide margin.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    It really is an insult to compare the Z06 to the 997 and997S. The Z06 is way out of their league.

    In performance, price and styling the Z06 absolutely destroys the 997's. The only area which can be compared is "feel" which is as subjective as color biases.

    The Z06 should be compared to the 997TT and only in performance. Price, styling and value all favor the Z06 by a wide margin.


    Actually, the Z06 vs. the 997GT3 is the more appropriate comparison IMO. Those are the offerings that would be most likely to be taken to the track often.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    It really is an insult to compare the Z06 to the 997 and997S. The Z06 is way out of their league.

    In performance, price and styling the Z06 absolutely destroys the 997's. The only area which can be compared is "feel" which is as subjective as color biases.

    The Z06 should be compared to the 997TT and only in performance. Price, styling and value all favor the Z06 by a wide margin.



    Syling? Destroys?

    Well, then I guess you're the kind of person who would rather take Pamela Anderson than Charlize Theron.
    Didn't know that styling was an objective criterion these days.

    Tim

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    nberry has his own distinctive views...

    Worthy though a Z06 is and outstanding though it's performance figures undoubtedly are, I'm sorry it just doesn't do it for me.

    Basically, even though it has pedigree, you get inside it and it feels cheap-no getting round it. It's the value for money choice-no doubt about it. But if you look beyond the pure value for money issue there's more to a 911 (or a Ferrari for that matter) than value for money.

    The Z06 is the best performance/money ratio car available today, probably. But I like my 997 bacause of its shape, quality, tactility and feel. I choose it because of its heritage, performance, styling, noise and ownership proposition.

    Objectively looking at whole life cost? I don't suppose there's much difference in what it'll cost me to own my 911s compared to a Z06.

    An insult to compare them? Only as far as it's an insult to compare a Porsche to a Ferrari.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Unfortunately, the Z06 is a disappointment. Go drive the Z06 and compare for yourself. I mean, c'mon General Motors!!!! Great horsepower per dollar and the Z06 has grip and grunt in abundance, but even feckless Porsche-bashers lose all credibility if they claim not to notice that squishy steering and squishy front suspension.

    Virtually the same level of feedback as the numbed-down 3800 bloated lbs. Pontiac GTO land yacht I drove the week before......and I won't even get into the Vette's quality of materials and near-asphyxiation I suffered leaving windows closed after warm-up. Disappointing.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The Z06 should be compared to the 997TT and only in performance. Price, styling and value all favor the Z06 by a wide margin.



    If you substitute the above "997TT" with "F430", then the Z06 will win by an even wider margin. So who is the [censored] who buy the F430?

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Quote:
    Targa Tim said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The Z06 should be compared to the 997TT and only in performance. Price, styling and value all favor the Z06 by a wide margin.



    If you substitute the above "997TT" with "F430", then the Z06 will win by an even wider margin. So who is the [censored] who buy the F430?



    Unquestionably the Z06 is a better value than the 430 if performance is the sole criteria. However, one does not buy a Ferrari only for perf. A Porsche justifies its existence soley on perf. It is neither special (24 different model 911's, and Boxster/Cayman knockoffs)and is massed produced. I would wager they build more 911's than Z06's.

    The Porsche no longer has a racing heritage and share parts with all its model ranges which is rumored to be close to 50%. So what redeeming features does Porsche has compared to the Z06 or a Ferrari?

    Finally regarding your question as to who would buy a 430, open your eyes and take in a healthy dose of reality and look around. Try buying a 430 without paying a huge premium. Now go a buy a used 997 or 997S. They are now selling close to 30% less than MSRP. When the 997TT hits the market they will depreciate even further. Obviously the public does not think much of the 997.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Nick you are so cruel! Stop teasing the porschephiles, you thrive on insecurity!

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Obviously the public does not think much of the 997.


    right nick! that's why they make so many different models and sell so many of them. the public can't stand them!

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    1. Motor Trend has been junk ever since the last editor change. This latest issue is just par for the course.

    2. I too used to like Motor Trend simply due to it's level of CONTENT. They still do manage to pack alot of interesting industry info into the book, but the book is so graphically annoying, and photographically artsy-fartsy, you can't gather enough strength whilst sitting on the John to struggle through the reading of it.

    3. As such, I now rely on my trusty WEEKLY issues of AutoWeek to give me all the detailed dirt, WEEKS PRIOR to the big monthly mags hitting my mailbox. AutoWeek is the "bomb" if you want to know the basic facts, without a bunch of pretentious drama and "look how avant-garde we are" schtick. Motor Trend used to be the good blue-collar book for regular guys. Now it's a sissified nonsensical farce that I can't bear to flip though, as it gives me a headache.

    4. Also, everybody who's interested in industry news should subscribe to Automotive News www.autonews.com to keep up with the business end of the car business.

    5. The "Dial 911" issue was an absolute laugh, and not because I own a 911. Just think about it. In the first article, the 911 is better built, more refined, offers superior feedback, better style, better panache, but less performance, for a higher price. Conclusion?? Performance wins out..... Second article....they draw the OPPOSITE conclusion...

    It's obvious guys, MT is so hell-bent on being "cutting edge" and perceived as "pioneers", that they set their laser-sights on the 911 ON PURPOSE, in some laughable attempt to prove that they are rebels, counterculture, blah blah blah. It's so contrived that it falls flat, to anyone with their eyes open. These articles downed the 911 on purpose, to prove somehow that they are not cut from the same cloth as other auto mags. Well, in that respect, they are right. They are not like the other mags. I LIKE the other mags, they tend to tell the truth, even when it hurts. People bitch about it (like insisting that BMW and Honda pays them under the table), but they still keep it as real as they can. Motor Trend??? They are a pirate ship without a sail, and without any credibility.

    I'm not renewing, and they used to be a favorite, (as I mentioned earlier) because they always had so much basically good information. It's still in there somewhere, I just don't have the patience to mine for it.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Wow, you wanna talk about it?

    But seriously, I love when people speak their minds. Especially when it's done in such a funny way.

    Tim

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Don't put down MT. They are allowed to say what they please, and who cares what MT or others say anyway?

    I, and only I, choose how to spend my money. I don't need others to justify my choice, nor do I need to justify my choice to others.

    Furthermore, this "need to preach" (with an intention to putdown or convert another person) that one is better is a sure sign of insecurity or jealousy.

    All cars in the article are fantastic and different. Let's celebrate the fact that we have these choices, and that we are allowed to make our own choices.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    I didn't think the MT articles were that bad. I thought they were pretty good in outlining all the relevant info and in making it clear that any conclusions would be influenced by a preconceived value set. "To each his own" was written in, or at least I thought.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    I think the 430 is an amazing car. It took Ferrari a decade or so to get things correct. The 328 was dated, the 348 was a sad piece of metal and even more dated. The 355 was a bit better. Finally with the 360 and at last, the 430 Ferrari made cars that deserve to be named Ferrari. The price is steep, but more a marketing choice of volume control rather than true value. People will spend more money than something is really worth if they believe it is very exclusive. This is the reality the 430 (and the 911). Diamonds prices are manipulated by the diamond producers and Modern Bride magazine. I can realize that I am a sucker for this hype too, but I accept the reality of my short life and still want to grab the brass ring (If someone makes them in short supply, it is put up or shut up...I can dig it). I can afford the wait and up charge for a 430; I have paid that price for 3 other Ferraris in my long automotive life. However, there are other issues I have had with Ferrari that makes me walk away this time. I bought it for ME and I LOVE it. I drive it fast, slow, to work, in the snow, and all over the place...best car I ever had. I have not had a 430 and am sure I would enjoy it, but it is not the same. It is not a 997 C4S and that is what I wanted. I do not care what others think, I have nothing to prove. I know Nick loves his 430 and I love the picture he has of it. I shopped around at about 8 Porsche dealers in 3 states. The best deal I could find on a car I could order the way I wanted was to get 5% off from my dealer nine miles down the road. Truth is even if I could get more off at a different dealer, I doubt if I would have done it. I stuck with my local Porsche dealer who is great to talk to and has always been good to me. My way or no way on the highway! PS I think MT is a weak magazine. I like Automobile magazine and love articles by Ezdra Dyer.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Quote:
    stork said:
    I think the 430 is an amazing car. It took Ferrari a decade or so to get things correct. The 328 was dated, the 348 was a sad piece of metal and even more dated. The 355 was a bit better. Finally with the 360 and at last, the 430 Ferrari made cars that deserve to be named Ferrari. The price is steep, but more a marketing choice of volume control rather than true value. People will spend more money than something is really worth if they believe it is very exclusive. This is the reality the 430 (and the 911). Diamonds prices are manipulated by the diamond producers and Modern Bride magazine. I can realize that I am a sucker for this hype too, but I accept the reality of my short life and still want to grab the brass ring (If someone makes them in short supply, it is put up or shut up...I can dig it). I can afford the wait and up charge for a 430; I have paid that price for 3 other Ferraris in my long automotive life. However, there are other issues I have had with Ferrari that makes me walk away this time. I bought it for ME and I LOVE it. I drive it fast, slow, to work, in the snow, and all over the place...best car I ever had. I have not had a 430 and am sure I would enjoy it, but it is not the same. It is not a 997 C4S and that is what I wanted. I do not care what others think, I have nothing to prove. I know Nick loves his 430 and I love the picture he has of it. I shopped around at about 8 Porsche dealers in 3 states. The best deal I could find on a car I could order the way I wanted was to get 5% off from my dealer nine miles down the road. Truth is even if I could get more off at a different dealer, I doubt if I would have done it. I stuck with my local Porsche dealer who is great to talk to and has always been good to me. My way or no way on the highway! PS I think MT is a weak magazine. I like Automobile magazine and love articles by Ezdra Dyer.


    Great post stork.

    Re: April Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Quote:
    stork said:
    I think the 430 is an amazing car. It took Ferrari a decade or so to get things correct. The 328 was dated, the 348 was a sad piece of metal and even more dated. The 355 was a bit better. Finally with the 360 and at last, the 430 Ferrari made cars that deserve to be named Ferrari. The price is steep, but more a marketing choice of volume control rather than true value. People will spend more money than something is really worth if they believe it is very exclusive. This is the reality the 430 (and the 911). Diamonds prices are manipulated by the diamond producers and Modern Bride magazine. I can realize that I am a sucker for this hype too, but I accept the reality of my short life and still want to grab the brass ring (If someone makes them in short supply, it is put up or shut up...I can dig it). I can afford the wait and up charge for a 430; I have paid that price for 3 other Ferraris in my long automotive life. However, there are other issues I have had with Ferrari that makes me walk away this time. I bought it for ME and I LOVE it. I drive it fast, slow, to work, in the snow, and all over the place...best car I ever had. I have not had a 430 and am sure I would enjoy it, but it is not the same. It is not a 997 C4S and that is what I wanted. I do not care what others think, I have nothing to prove. I know Nick loves his 430 and I love the picture he has of it. I shopped around at about 8 Porsche dealers in 3 states. The best deal I could find on a car I could order the way I wanted was to get 5% off from my dealer nine miles down the road. Truth is even if I could get more off at a different dealer, I doubt if I would have done it. I stuck with my local Porsche dealer who is great to talk to and has always been good to me. My way or no way on the highway! PS I think MT is a weak magazine. I like Automobile magazine and love articles by Ezdra Dyer.


    Great post stork.



    That's right! Why settle for an F430 when you can have a C4S.
    /uploads/204358-c.gif

    I like the Motor Trend "Dial 911" Article

    Most of us on the board can afford the Corvette and the 997, I suspect many may also be able to afford the Aston Martin. If I only could spend 60K and wanted a brand new High Horsepower two seat sports car, I just might buy a new Z06 Corvette. One of the guys I have coffee with at Starbucks in the morning just got one two weeks ago and it is a beautiful car. My father always drove corvettes so I grew up driving a 66 and it was a fun car. Loud Brash, Hot and Fun. I liked it and i think that the Motor trend article basically says that. Now on to the Aston. First I would have to say that the Vanquish (Not the V8 Vantage) is the most stunning car i have ever seen. When you start it the exhaust note is intoxicating. Although I have only seen the V8 Vantage in pictures if it is half of what the Vanquish is it will be a stunning car. I almost put a deposit down on one. (I brought a blank check to the Seattle Auto show to give to the dealer) But i didn't. Why? Well I think that the Aston will be like the prettiest Girl in high school. Awesome to look at but kind of a B..tch and very high maintenance. But she is sooooo pretty. Worth it? Well in the end i think many of us learned (some the hard way) probably not. Plus the Aston Dealer is 20 miles form my house and the Porsche dealer is 7 and on the way to work. Owning a Porsche is about he total experience. That means with the sales staff and the service staff and when you buy a car like it or not you have to develop a relationship with all of them. I like the Porsche dealership here in town. Good guys. Both the Sales guys and Service staff have been there a long time. They know me and I know them. I like chatting with them. So i think if you only afford a Z06 and you like brash and loud and hot. Go for it. If you like the prettiest girl in school even though she is high maintenance go for the Vantage. Me? Well I am loving My 997S and excited about getting a new Turbo and I don't need to sing the praises to you guys. Because you are the faithful, You are the believers.

     
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