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    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Profitability is obviously a major priority for Porsche and F1 might eat up a whole load of capital for questionable returns.

    A small but really shocking example happened last night.

    I was listening to some sound files on the Porsche website in the UK last night. I thought I would check out the German website to see if they had anything extra on there.

    To my horror, what did I see? Well, on the German website, you can listen to the sound files for free but, if you want to download the file, you have to pay 0.99 Euros for each download!!!

    One would have thought that this costs Porsche next to nothing and is a great to enthuse people about the brand/marque but they actually want to charge for this!

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Profitability is obviously a major priority for Porsche and F1 might eat up a whole load of capital for questionable returns.

    A small but really shocking example happened last night.

    I was listening to some sound files on the Porsche website in the UK last night. I thought I would check out the German website to see if they had anything extra on there.

    To my horror, what did I see? Well, on the German website, you can listen to the sound files for free but, if you want to download the file, you have to pay 0.99 Euros for each download!!!

    One would have thought that this costs Porsche next to nothing and is a great to enthuse people about the brand/marque but they actually want to charge for this!



    That is a first! Its almost too funny for words. I suggest that next they consider charging to just view their site! Why not? They need the money to develop the next version of the Cayenne since they spent all of their
    money buying 18% of VW.

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    I can download them without any problems...
    Can you post a link?

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Here we go:

    http://www.porsche.com/germany/multimedia/mobile/sounds/

    Like I said, free to download and listen but you have to pay to save them!! But this is only for the German website. Elsewhere there is no charge for saving files. Having said that, I would expect other Porsche country sites to follow suit if this is a successful money earner for Porsche.

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Err, are you aware those are ringtones for mobile phones? You're not paying for saving them, you're paying for having them sent to your phone. Quite a common thing, actually.
    It's like buying keychains and lighters...

    Go to Multimedia - Für Ihren Computer - Sounds, you can download the sounds for free.

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Ahhh! Thanks Brunner. Sorry I don't understand German so I misunderstood it!

    But I still think Porsche will charge for anything it can! It charges for coloured wheel centres!

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    "Firs of all I've heard that Audi spends as much into their LeMans Program."

    NO! Audi may have spend over $150 million on the R8, but they did not spend $300 million a year. The money spent on development of an F1 car could be spent much more efficiently developing a better road car (and GT racer). It would be great to see Porsche in F1, but should they do it? An F1 program would only make sense for Porsche if it were paid for in large part by a sponser or current F1 team. Remember the current top F1 teams must pay for a large portion of their budget. Also, Porsche turned down Sauber when they offered to pay for a Porsche F1 engine program in the late 90's. Why would they return to F1 now? Porsche CEO would never approve an F1 budget. Porsche is not BMW or Toyota.

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    All of the above!!!

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    I went for a NO for a simple reason: F1 racing doesn't necessarily reflect the qualities of a car company to build good sportscars for the street. I prefer Porsche to invest the money into new products or quality improvements instead of useless (from my point of view) Formula One racing.

    Should they provide an engine for the F1 circus? Maybe yes. They did that before. Should they get involved in other racing classes? Definetely a yes too. But I would like them to be involved in racing classes which are closer to the real deal, the final product Porsche sportscar.
    The F1 class is the top of the line in motorsports, the king's class, I agree. But it is too much ruled by money and strategy, not something I'm really interested in.
    And a F1 engagement could backfire easily: imagine they wouldn't be succesful from the start...it would be a desaster.

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    why do you think that ferrari is much expensive than posche?? because they spend a lot o money on F1 and someone needs to pay... US...

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    why do you think that ferrari is much expensive than posche?? because they spend a lot o money on F1 and someone needs to pay... US...



    While I agree that Porsche should not enter F1 racing, I do not underestimate the importance of participation and success in this sport. It does lead to many innovations and enhanced marketing opportunities. Also, much of the costs are defrayed by outside corporate sponsorship.

    For Porsche to get in now would be foolish. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

    People buy their cars despite being engineering and styling oddities. How many manufacturers can get away with selling cars with the huge wings on the rear like Porsche does? They have grown men riding around with those silly contraptions and they think nothing of it.

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    For Porsche to get in now would be foolish. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose.



    This is WEIRD!

    Nick, you've just written a post I can agree with!

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Mind you they need to start to beat DIESEL Audis in ALMS if they are to salvage their dying racing reputation

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Quote:
    john999s said:
    Mind you they need to start to beat DIESEL Audis in ALMS if they are to salvage their dying racing reputation



    I doubt the engineers at Porsche Motorsports were ready for that slap in the face!

    What we are NOT seeing is a all out assault on motor racing by Porsche that would create the attitudes and conditions within the company to bring out the best in their engineers.

    They used to have in development cars for 5 different classes! Now its just the GT3 that is only a winner in
    its own Carrera Cup races and the RS Spyder wich uses old technology and loses to a barely developed Audi Diesel!

    I dont see the company's vision or genuine enthusiasm for racing that will lead to any triumphs.

    Truck companies that also build a few overly complex sports cars and that are pouring resources into a new sedan are unlikely candidates for widespread racing victories.

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Pssst... The RS Spyder is in a lower class than the Audi (and is definately no old tech).
    Sheesh jim, what did Porsche do to you? [censored] in your coffee? Beat you up in highschool? Sleep with your first love? You're soooo bent on moaning and complaining all the time about them... and 99.99% of the time you're just making up things to complain about, without any real life base...
    I'm curious, how old are you? Do you have a creaky rocking chair? Do the loud children outside bother you?

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    For Porsche to get in now would be foolish. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose.



    This is WEIRD!

    Nick, you've just written a post I can agree with!


    But do you agree with Nick's ENTIRE post Fritz?

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    For Porsche to get in now would be foolish. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose.



    This is WEIRD!

    Nick, you've just written a post I can agree with!


    But do you agree with Nick's ENTIRE post Fritz?



    Half a post, now don't push it

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    A simple question.

    Renault are the undoubted kings of F1 right now. Would any of us trade our P-car for a Renault sports job even if there were one available??

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Another simple question: does anyone here think Renault's F1 effort has improved in any way the quality of it's products?

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Completely agree with you. There is no correlation between F1 performance and the character and quality of streetcars, though some marketing gurus claim that carmakers may benefit from their F1 experience by adapting some technical innovations for their streetcars. I doubt this and I don't know any P-car owner who wants to have a HANS device fitted into his car.
    I guess those of the big carmakers participating in F1 carve the F1-budget just out of their huge marketing budgets. Remember Porsche does not have a big marketing budget (in comparision to the biggies) - almost no TV-commercials (at least in Europe) and very few adverts in magazines/newspapers. As they say in the corporate world: half of any marketing budget is useless, but you never know which half...
    As a Porsche-fan and F1-fan I'd love to see Porsche join the party, but financially it doesn't make sense and the Weissach-guys don't need F1 to come up with technical innovations for the streetcars (see VTG-technolgy for the 997 TT).
    BTW Renault did almost nothing to use their 2005 F1-championship as a marketing-tool for their streetcars (almost no coverage in their regular adverts etc.).

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Completely agree with you. There is no correlation between F1 performance and the character and quality of streetcars, though some marketing gurus claim that carmakers may benefit from their F1 experience by adapting some technical innovations for their streetcars. I doubt this and I don't know any P-car owner who wants to have a HANS device fitted into his car.
    I guess those of the big carmakers participating in F1 carve the F1-budget just out of their huge marketing budgets. Remember Porsche does not have a big marketing budget (in comparision to the biggies) - almost no TV-commercials (at least in Europe) and very few adverts in magazines/newspapers. As they say in the corporate world: half of any marketing budget is useless, but you never know which half...
    As a Porsche-fan and F1-fan I'd love to see Porsche join the party, but financially it doesn't make sense and the Weissach-guys don't need F1 to come up with technical innovations for the streetcars (see VTG-technolgy for the 997 TT).
    BTW Renault did almost nothing to use their 2005 F1-championship as a marketing-tool for their streetcars (almost no coverage in their regular adverts etc.).



    Absolutely right - says it all.

    BTW - Renault did post adverts showing their F1 car parked on a high street between two of their saloons (Meganes I think). The slogan was - "Just another Renault" - hardly believable and IMO useless as a marketing strategy.

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Well, Renault have improved quite a bit...I hate them, but I had them recently as rental cars, and the quality of the interior of the megane really surprised me...Tough nothing to do with a F1 cockpit :-)

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Quote:
    John H said:
    BTW - Renault did post adverts showing their F1 car parked on a high street between two of their saloons (Meganes I think). The slogan was - "Just another Renault" - hardly believable and IMO useless as a marketing strategy.



    LOL - "just another Renault" - Alonso and Fisico might pray that this does not become reality

    @ Jeannot: lots of fresh Renault owners are praising the quality of the new cars. The problem is that they tend to fall apart right after the warranty expires - at least if you believe the long term quality surveys published in Germany (TÜV reports, ADAC reports etc.) - a two years lease might be o.k. but then you have to kiss them goodbye

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Porsche is a large advertiser in the US. They have ads in all the major car magazine's and advertise in several of the financial daily and weekly papers. I suspect their budget is quite large for the US market.

    BTW, capitalizing on F1 success is a long term effort often up to 5 years. Nevertheless, as far is Porsche is concerned they should refrain from joining F1 because people are buying their cars (albeit blindly) and public perception is they are engaged in racing.

    When sales stall, they can turn to a more visible role in racing hoping to recapture their loyalist base. BTW that may be happening now with their entry of the Spyder. Porsche is good in reading trends.

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Alonso does appear sometimes on Renault TV ads, but I have to agree, they do not seem to use their current F1 success. Actually, I think they did it better back when they were only engine suppliers. Even Mr Ghosn is not convinced it is worth it, and is reportedly considering pulling out altogether.

    I also agree that they do not seem to transfer technical experience from F1 to production cars. They still outsource part of the tuning of their sport models to Porsche.
    However, they are great daily drivers.

    I grew up in a very shoddily built 1990 Renault Espace minivan. The design of the car was revolutionary in every regard, but quality was hardly its forte. Its chassis was rusting, the paint was peeling off, and the plastics inside had melted, but that thing just wouldn't die!

    My parents eventually got rid of it and bought a 2003 Megane Scenic minivan. I am very impressed by this car every time I come and visit them. This bears repeating, Renault is no longer the company it was back in the 80's.

    The 2003 Megane Scenic is very cleverly designed, better equipped, better built than my 996 (which did not have full leather, unfortunately). It handles well, is comfortable and silent, and gets great mileage. In two years and half, my parents have not had a single problem, and it looks as good as new today.
    The electric power steering sucks, but otherwise, I can only recommand this car. If I had children, I'd buy it over my current A4.

    But since I do not, my A4 getting replaced by a 997 Targa as soon as I can get my hands on one

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    May i propose you the latest renault TV ad Ft Fernando Alonso as the Renault driver...?

    http://www.kamazutra.be/owned/

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    ROFL
    F1 drivers are not so experienced using reverse gear

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    ROFL
    F1 drivers are not so experienced using reverse gear



    True! And next year they have to learn how to shift with a clutch pedal on a race track:!

    Maybe they can apply for a EU driver education grant?


    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    ROFL
    F1 drivers are not so experienced using reverse gear



    True! And next year they have to learn how to shift with a clutch pedal on a race track:!



    Hmmm, that could be Niki Lauda's chance to make another comeback. He'd have a head start on the current generation of F1 drivers.

    Re: Why is it that Porsche doesn't take part in F1??

    I have thought about this question for a while and I think it's interesting that it came up on Rennteam.

    No. Porsche should not enter F1. It is not an economically viable option within the current landscape of F1. Middling independent car companies (with the exception of Ferrari who builds their sports cars to finance their racing ) will be effectively wiped out of F1 as a result of Red Bull's ascension into F1's inner circle.

    Red Bull has a serious bank roll and F1 finally can justify another major player in the cards. They don't need to keep messing around with bottom feeder teems like Aguri for too much longer (except for market expansion and new driver testing). Red Bull has forged an excellent business plan (budding a market-seed in the U.S. with Scott Speed ) and I'm sure their efforts and expenses will pay off. Red Bull's bankroll will put them in the top 5 soon enough. Take that into account with Ferrari, BAR Honda (huge bankroll), Toyota (huge bankroll) and McLaren Merc. I left Renault out due to the speculation that they might pull out (why? because F1 costs are too much for their new CFO who has been known to cut out the prestige spending).

    In order to enter F1, a team either needs to acquire another small team (i.e. Torro Rosso or Midland or BMW's acquisition) or start from scratch, usually purchasing older aerokits/engines (Super Aguri/Red Bull). This really leaves your team in the bowels for about 2-3 years, even if you are dropping huge cash. If you have a competent engineering and design team (we're talking PHD Aero-space Dynamics here), you can begin to turn a corner on this voraciously cutting-edge sport.

    What does this do for your company? Not so much in terms of the diffusion of technology. I mean, 20k rpm v8s and magnesium alloy trannies are cool but how much of this technology really trickles down into the day car? Hopefully some, but from a business standpoint, it requires more marketing to be successful in "showcasing" technology than actual application.

    This would, of course, be an unacceptable cost (1 billion+) to Wiedkling and his corporate cronies who really have no interest in racing heritage (but rather churning out Cayennes and Boxsters), other than its ability to generate profits. Think about it, the only racing team to really utilize their F1 prestige and technology into their road cars is Ferrari (i.e. Venturi underpanneling, "F1" transmission), and they have a singular business paradigm that does not mesh well with Porsche at all.

    I think Porsche could supply engines for a company, but full entry would not be acceptable .

     
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