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    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    "leagues above the 918" Quite a statement! Maybe that is why Porsche has been delaying the 918.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    I want one in black please!


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive MSport & 2012 x5 - TurboS Cab on Order Mar14. Range Rover V8 on order June14


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    This is my dream car for the moment!

    Torque-filling for linear delivery, a turbo-car that drives like a NA!


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    The silence is deafening around here re: Chris' comments on P1 vs. 918...


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

     I say... Love it!


    --

    2011 987S, 1964 Type 1


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    DaveGordon:

     I say... Love it!

    Yep.  It seems much more special to me than the 918 Smiley


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    That car in black is really sexy, it hides the Jack Nicholson Joker Smile face completely.

    I have to say, I still quite like it, but if I use the Porsche car range to describe the P1 and the 918, the P1 will be the GT3RS while the 918 is the Turbo S. One shines better on a track where it can stretch it legs while the other may not excel in one area but it's a completely package where it can do many things good. I guess that's why I picked the 918 and the Turbo S instead of the P1 and a GT3, I am not really a track person after all.

    As they said it in the film, McLaren replace the turbos in the 12C with bigger ones in the P1. Boost pressure gone from 1.2bar to 2.4bar, doubled. The 'new' engine block needs extra reinforcement to stand the pressure, so it's really not a 'new' engine, just a strengthen one.

    Also, with the much bigger turbos providing a lot more boost, the P1 NEEDS the electric motors to torque fill before it reaches full boost, or else it will have turbo lags not unlike those in the 60s era turbo cars. Porsche employ their emotors almost the same way, to torque fill the lower rev band before the high revving NA V8 reaches optimum rpm range. 

    But while the Porsche emotors works all the time through out the rev range,  from what Chris Goodwin had described, in the McLaren, the emotor only works in the lower rev range to fill in the torque gaps, then at the high end when all 903hp is needed. In middle of the rev range is where the gas motor is used as a generator to recharge. This all make sense now why McLaren is doing with a a small battery and all the other hoopla surrounding the P1 before. It doesn't really rely on the hybrid drivetrain that much.

    As I understands now, the P1 is normally a 727HP super car, but with a 176HP 'boost' motor helper. The 918 will normally be a 887HP super car but at crunched time, it chickened out  and turned into a 762HP car with the 125HP front motor being disconnected. 

    These numbers now become interesting, if the top end cannot be utilized fully by a P1 and the 918, then these 2 cars become quite a bit closer in terms of performance especially when the huge torque advantage and traction of the 918 can be fully utilized coming out of turns. Granted the P1 still have the aero advantage, but that Top Gear test track challenge seems more closely matched now than we all thought.

    Another interesting number came up, with 1.2bar of boost the McLaren V8 pushes out 625HP, but even with double the boost it only managed to eke out an extra 102HP.  Could that be the ceiling of the engine architecture?

    These 2 cars also had shown the future of cars for us. With regulations dictating tighter emissions and consumptions, future cars will have smaller capacity and turbos, car makers can and will do what Porsche and McLaren is doing, use a electric motor to help throttle response and 'torque gap'. It's like the best of both worlds, we have our high HP performance yet the lower rev range response will not suffer as the emotor will fill in the gaps and provide immediate throttle response, while start-stop function will also works better with electric propulsion in low low speed city driving. A lot of cities already have strict idle laws where engines has to be off, but with electric onboard air-con can still work to provide comfort while stopped. Weight 'could' be an issue but the batteries doesn't need to be like 918 big, it can even be smaller than the P1 setup, with smaller HP emotors and smaller battery size, the weight penalties could go from the P1's 200kg down to less than 100kg, say 75kg Porsche probably already chopped at least that much, if not more from the 918's initial weight with advancement in material breakthroughs.

    Future of cars will be different than what we have experienced till now, but when I sit down and think about it, the future is becoming very exciting.


    --

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    When McLaren presented P1 for first time, my choice was 918. But, after recent videos I must admit that P1 gained some points in my book. Very well sorted car for hardcore drivers!

    On other side, I am very curious what we can expect from Pagani in future. Currently, 720 HP Huayra seems pretty out of hyper-car league, but I have in count that first Zonda had 389 HP, and last one 760 HP smiley. With tuned TT engine and some hybrid stuff Pagani could deliver insane power. Combine that with Huayra`s active aero and you have killer competitor. Also, all Huayra`s owners have ability that Porsche/Ferrari/McLaren owners could just dream about - Pagani offers you installation of all future development goodies on your Huayra  Development for 918/P1/LaF stopped when chiefs approved models for production.


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:

    That car in black is really sexy, it hides the Jack Nicholson Joker Smile face completely.

    I have to say, I still quite like it, but if I use the Porsche car range to describe the P1 and the 918, the P1 will be the GT3RS while the 918 is the Turbo S. One shines better on a track where it can stretch it legs while the other may not excel in one area but it's a completely package where it can do many things good. I guess that's why I picked the 918 and the Turbo S instead of the P1 and a GT3, I am not really a track person after all.

    As they said it in the film, McLaren replace the turbos in the 12C with bigger ones in the P1. Boost pressure gone from 1.2bar to 2.4bar, doubled. The 'new' engine block needs extra reinforcement to stand the pressure, so it's really not a 'new' engine, just a strengthen one.

    Also, with the much bigger turbos providing a lot more boost, the P1 NEEDS the electric motors to torque fill before it reaches full boost, or else it will have turbo lags not unlike those in the 60s era turbo cars. Porsche employ their emotors almost the same way, to torque fill the lower rev band before the high revving NA V8 reaches optimum rpm range. 

    But while the Porsche emotors works all the time through out the rev range,  from what Chris Goodwin had described, in the McLaren, the emotor only works in the lower rev range to fill in the torque gaps, then at the high end when all 903hp is needed. In middle of the rev range is where the gas motor is used as a generator to recharge. This all make sense now why McLaren is doing with a a small battery and all the other hoopla surrounding the P1 before. It doesn't really rely on the hybrid drivetrain that much.

    As I understands now, the P1 is normally a 727HP super car, but with a 176HP 'boost' motor helper. The 918 will normally be a 887HP super car but at crunched time, it chickened out  and turned into a 762HP car with the 125HP front motor being disconnected. 

    These numbers now become interesting, if the top end cannot be utilized fully by a P1 and the 918, then these 2 cars become quite a bit closer in terms of performance especially when the huge torque advantage and traction of the 918 can be fully utilized coming out of turns. Granted the P1 still have the aero advantage, but that Top Gear test track challenge seems more closely matched now than we all thought.

    Another interesting number came up, with 1.2bar of boost the McLaren V8 pushes out 625HP, but even with double the boost it only managed to eke out an extra 102HP.  Could that be the ceiling of the engine architecture?

    These 2 cars also had shown the future of cars for us. With regulations dictating tighter emissions and consumptions, future cars will have smaller capacity and turbos, car makers can and will do what Porsche and McLaren is doing, use a electric motor to help throttle response and 'torque gap'. It's like the best of both worlds, we have our high HP performance yet the lower rev range response will not suffer as the emotor will fill in the gaps and provide immediate throttle response, while start-stop function will also works better with electric propulsion in low low speed city driving. A lot of cities already have strict idle laws where engines has to be off, but with electric onboard air-con can still work to provide comfort while stopped. Weight 'could' be an issue but the batteries doesn't need to be like 918 big, it can even be smaller than the P1 setup, with smaller HP emotors and smaller battery size, the weight penalties could go from the P1's 200kg down to less than 100kg, say 75kg Porsche probably already chopped at least that much, if not more from the 918's initial weight with advancement in material breakthroughs.

    Future of cars will be different than what we have experienced till now, but when I sit down and think about it, the future is becoming very exciting.

    They will mean 1.4 bar boost, the 2.4 is including atmospheric air pressure. So it is only 0.2bar over the 12C.

    Actually only 727PS from 1.4bar on a 3.8 litre is pretty crap, my Mezger has 800PS on 1.1bar but then it is a Porsche engine indecision


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    TB993tt:

    They will mean 1.4 bar boost, the 2.4 is including atmospheric air pressure. So it is only 0.2bar over the 12C.

    Actually only 727PS from 1.4bar on a 3.8 litre is pretty crap, my Mezger has 800PS on 1.1bar but then it is a Porsche engine indecision

     

    Well if that's the case, then the 12C while listed at 1.4bar will means 0.4bar of pressure and the 2.4bar for the P1 means 1 whole bar above what 12C is putting out.

    McLaren have confirmed P1 has bigger turbos than 12C, so if bigger turbos only netted and extra 0.2 bar of pressure, then something is wrong.

    There was noticeable blow off valve sound in the P! while zero in the 12C, so the pressure is definitely cranked up by a mile.

     


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    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Milanno:

    When McLaren presented P1 for first time, my choice was 918. But, after recent videos I must admit that P1 gained some points in my book. Very well sorted car for hardcore drivers!

    On other side, I am very curious what we can expect from Pagani in future. Currently, 720 HP Huayra seems pretty out of hyper-car league, but I have in count that first Zonda had 389 HP, and last one 760 HP smiley. With tuned TT engine and some hybrid stuff Pagani could deliver insane power. Combine that with Huayra`s active aero and you have killer competitor. Also, all Huayra`s owners have ability that Porsche/Ferrari/McLaren owners could just dream about - Pagani offers you installation of all future development goodies on your Huayra  Development for 918/P1/LaF stopped when chiefs approved models for production.

     

    Pagani dreamed of being mentioned in the same sentence as Porsche and McLaren but they are really not in the same league even when they charge way more for a car.

    For a kit car company they are really tops, no one else come close. But as limited by a kit car company's budget, they are limited to what they can do, i.e. don't have money to develop a proper awd system to put all the power down and resort to off the shelf Bosch ECU and traction control module, no in-house tuning. McLaren at least have enough have enough infrastructure in place to write their own peerless traction control system, and had commissioned their own unique engine that based on nothing from any production car. Pagani still uses a tuned AMG 65 engine, they can say whatever they want about the 'uniqueness' of their engine where it has it's own part number, but the fact is that it's still a tuned version of a production Mercedes AMG engine.

    Pagani right now is about on par with Noble or Saleem, with much nicer finishing touches. All those 'matching weave' carbon finer panels and machined aluminum interior bits are super nice, but they are superficial, it contribute absolutely zero to the car's basics.  It's like people put diamonds and gold on a Nokia feature phone, i.e. Vertu. if one look past the glitter one realized they are paying through the roof for a subpar product.

    Pagani is at least selling another 500-1000 cars away before they have the real budget to even try and put a hybrid system in their car. The 'upgrade' and 'personal touches' are nice, but it really is nothing too much to ask for from Pagani when they had sold so few cars. It's easy for them to do such 'personal' touches. Watch them trying to maintain that program after they had over 10.000 customers.


    --

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:

     

    As they said it in the film, McLaren replace the turbos in the 12C with bigger ones in the P1. Boost pressure gone from 1.2bar to 2.4bar, doubled. The 'new' engine block needs extra reinforcement to stand the pressure, so it's really not a 'new' engine, just a strengthen one.

    Also, with the much bigger turbos providing a lot more boost, the P1 NEEDS the electric motors to torque fill before it reaches full boost, or else it will have turbo lags not unlike those in the 60s era turbo cars. Porsche employ their emotors almost the same way, to torque fill the lower rev band before the high revving NA V8 reaches optimum rpm range. 

     

    Another interesting number came up, with 1.2bar of boost the McLaren V8 pushes out 625HP, but even with double the boost it only managed to eke out an extra 102HP.  Could that be the ceiling of the engine architecture?

     

     

    i dont think thats correct. from what i have read, the pre-update 12C made 17.5 psi or 1.2 bars and after the update it made 21 psi or 1.4 bars. Also, the P1 supposedly makes 3 psi more than the old pre-update 12C, so 1.4 bars as well but through much bigger turbos.

    btw, my 13 spider has pretty loud wastegates especially when driving hard on and off throttle it sounds almost the same as the p1 in the videos. not sure why you cant hear yours...


    --

    2011 CTT, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

     

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    TB993tt:
    Whoopsy:

    That car in black is really sexy, it hides the Jack Nicholson Joker Smile face completely.

    I have to say, I still quite like it, but if I use the Porsche car range to describe the P1 and the 918, the P1 will be the GT3RS while the 918 is the Turbo S. One shines better on a track where it can stretch it legs while the other may not excel in one area but it's a completely package where it can do many things good. I guess that's why I picked the 918 and the Turbo S instead of the P1 and a GT3, I am not really a track person after all.

    As they said it in the film, McLaren replace the turbos in the 12C with bigger ones in the P1. Boost pressure gone from 1.2bar to 2.4bar, doubled. The 'new' engine block needs extra reinforcement to stand the pressure, so it's really not a 'new' engine, just a strengthen one.

    Also, with the much bigger turbos providing a lot more boost, the P1 NEEDS the electric motors to torque fill before it reaches full boost, or else it will have turbo lags not unlike those in the 60s era turbo cars. Porsche employ their emotors almost the same way, to torque fill the lower rev band before the high revving NA V8 reaches optimum rpm range. 

    But while the Porsche emotors works all the time through out the rev range,  from what Chris Goodwin had described, in the McLaren, the emotor only works in the lower rev range to fill in the torque gaps, then at the high end when all 903hp is needed. In middle of the rev range is where the gas motor is used as a generator to recharge. This all make sense now why McLaren is doing with a a small battery and all the other hoopla surrounding the P1 before. It doesn't really rely on the hybrid drivetrain that much.

    As I understands now, the P1 is normally a 727HP super car, but with a 176HP 'boost' motor helper. The 918 will normally be a 887HP super car but at crunched time, it chickened out  and turned into a 762HP car with the 125HP front motor being disconnected. 

    These numbers now become interesting, if the top end cannot be utilized fully by a P1 and the 918, then these 2 cars become quite a bit closer in terms of performance especially when the huge torque advantage and traction of the 918 can be fully utilized coming out of turns. Granted the P1 still have the aero advantage, but that Top Gear test track challenge seems more closely matched now than we all thought.

    Another interesting number came up, with 1.2bar of boost the McLaren V8 pushes out 625HP, but even with double the boost it only managed to eke out an extra 102HP.  Could that be the ceiling of the engine architecture?

    These 2 cars also had shown the future of cars for us. With regulations dictating tighter emissions and consumptions, future cars will have smaller capacity and turbos, car makers can and will do what Porsche and McLaren is doing, use a electric motor to help throttle response and 'torque gap'. It's like the best of both worlds, we have our high HP performance yet the lower rev range response will not suffer as the emotor will fill in the gaps and provide immediate throttle response, while start-stop function will also works better with electric propulsion in low low speed city driving. A lot of cities already have strict idle laws where engines has to be off, but with electric onboard air-con can still work to provide comfort while stopped. Weight 'could' be an issue but the batteries doesn't need to be like 918 big, it can even be smaller than the P1 setup, with smaller HP emotors and smaller battery size, the weight penalties could go from the P1's 200kg down to less than 100kg, say 75kg Porsche probably already chopped at least that much, if not more from the 918's initial weight with advancement in material breakthroughs.

    Future of cars will be different than what we have experienced till now, but when I sit down and think about it, the future is becoming very exciting.

    They will mean 1.4 bar boost, the 2.4 is including atmospheric air pressure. So it is only 0.2bar over the 12C.

    Actually only 727PS from 1.4bar on a 3.8 litre is pretty crap, my Mezger has 800PS on 1.1bar but then it is a Porsche engine indecision

    I would't think too much of it. Whatever the pressure/output, I'm sure it's how it is for a reason. It's pretty dumb, for a lack of a better word, to think McLaren can't achieve what some small tuners can. It's like thinking Lamborghini couldn't make a 2000hp Gallardo like UGR if they wanted to.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:
    Milanno:

    When McLaren presented P1 for first time, my choice was 918. But, after recent videos I must admit that P1 gained some points in my book. Very well sorted car for hardcore drivers!

    On other side, I am very curious what we can expect from Pagani in future. Currently, 720 HP Huayra seems pretty out of hyper-car league, but I have in count that first Zonda had 389 HP, and last one 760 HP smiley. With tuned TT engine and some hybrid stuff Pagani could deliver insane power. Combine that with Huayra`s active aero and you have killer competitor. Also, all Huayra`s owners have ability that Porsche/Ferrari/McLaren owners could just dream about - Pagani offers you installation of all future development goodies on your Huayra  Development for 918/P1/LaF stopped when chiefs approved models for production.

     

    Pagani dreamed of being mentioned in the same sentence as Porsche and McLaren but they are really not in the same league even when they charge way more for a car.

    For a kit car company they are really tops, no one else come close. But as limited by a kit car company's budget, they are limited to what they can do, i.e. don't have money to develop a proper awd system to put all the power down and resort to off the shelf Bosch ECU and traction control module, no in-house tuning. McLaren at least have enough have enough infrastructure in place to write their own peerless traction control system, and had commissioned their own unique engine that based on nothing from any production car. Pagani still uses a tuned AMG 65 engine, they can say whatever they want about the 'uniqueness' of their engine where it has it's own part number, but the fact is that it's still a tuned version of a production Mercedes AMG engine.

    Pagani right now is about on par with Noble or Saleem, with much nicer finishing touches. All those 'matching weave' carbon finer panels and machined aluminum interior bits are super nice, but they are superficial, it contribute absolutely zero to the car's basics.  It's like people put diamonds and gold on a Nokia feature phone, i.e. Vertu. if one look past the glitter one realized they are paying through the roof for a subpar product.

    Pagani is at least selling another 500-1000 cars away before they have the real budget to even try and put a hybrid system in their car. The 'upgrade' and 'personal touches' are nice, but it really is nothing too much to ask for from Pagani when they had sold so few cars. It's easy for them to do such 'personal' touches. Watch them trying to maintain that program after they had over 10.000 customers.

    I really love the later Zonda designs, but I do kind of agree with the whole superficial thing.

    If I was ordering a Pagani I'd tell them to quit wasting my money on crap like aligning the weave. If I'm painting the car, I really don't care if you make nice patterns and consistency across panels. Same with fancy nuts and bolts. I don't want to pay for the Pagani name to be formed into the head of some bolt I'll never look at it.

    I have a feeling that the new era of exotics -- hybrids -- might put the independent companies out to pasture unless they are able to license this technology pretty soon. I think the P1/918/LF have made it clear that hybrid is the way of the future. Honda has the NSX coming out which will probably be the first affordable exotic with hybrid technology, and Nissan is apparently going the same route with the GTR. I also believe they are going to put down some killer performance.

    I highly doubt Koenigsegg or Pagani can afford to develop these systems, so unless they can license them in the near future, they are going to have a hard time keeping up when you consider how much hey cost. They'll have to sell on looks alone because performance wise I just don't see them being much value compared to the major manufacturers.

    Same thing goes for tuners. I really wonder how tuners are going to survive when the systems get way more complex and hard/impossible to modify. Would love to see the looks on their faces when the next GTR has some crazy electrical motors and KERS systems that can't be easily changed.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Pagani is in a completely different leaugue than all these hypercars. Pagani is a piece of art and exactly that is why people buy a Pagani. Not because they want the fastest heartless car, like the P1, or for that matter, any of the hypercars. If I could afford it, I would rather spend 2 mil. on a Pagani, than 1 mil. on a P1 or LaF.  For me those two cars don't have any appeal at all. The 918 has a bit more appeal, simply because it's a Porsche, but I would not spend the money on it either. (just my humble opinion of course).

    i look at Pagani like an expensive watch. A $19 Casio will do the job pretty well or even better, but I like the eye for detail and the fact my watch is a piece of jewelery. Like a bracelett that can also tell you the time, but if I want to know how late it is, I'll take a look at my iPhone.

    The day Pagani stops making cars the way they do now, that's the day they become just another boring car brand and  that's when they will not survive.


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Well, I guess I like the cool blue flame (probably why they did those videos at night). But I just find the P1 hot wheels, over-designed ugly.   The 918 strikes me as the far more elegant, tasteful design.  Having said that, I think if I were 12, I'd prefer the P1.  
     

    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy I am quite surprised with your opinion about Pagani.


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    SuzyF:

    Pagani is in a completely different leaugue than all these hypercars. Pagani is a piece of art and exactly that is why people buy a Pagani. Not because they want the fastest heartless car, like the P1, or for that matter, any of the hypercars. If I could afford it, I would rather spend 2 mil. on a Pagani, than 1 mil. on a P1 or LaF.  For me those two cars don't have any appeal at all. The 918 has a bit more appeal, simply because it's a Porsche, but I would not spend the money on it either. (just my humble opinion of course).

    i look at Pagani like an expensive watch. A $19 Casio will do the job pretty well or even better, but I like the eye for detail and the fact my watch is a piece of jewelery. Like a bracelett that can also tell you the time, but if I want to know how late it is, I'll take a look at my iPhone.

    The day Pagani stops making cars the way they do now, that's the day they become just another boring car brand and  that's when they will not survive.


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     

    +1 

    I would choose this ''kit car'' over a P1 in a heartbeat! 


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    SuzyF:

    Pagani is in a completely different leaugue than all these hypercars. Pagani is a piece of art and exactly that is why people buy a Pagani. Not because they want the fastest heartless car, like the P1, or for that matter, any of the hypercars. If I could afford it, I would rather spend 2 mil. on a Pagani, than 1 mil. on a P1 or LaF.  For me those two cars don't have any appeal at all. The 918 has a bit more appeal, simply because it's a Porsche, but I would not spend the money on it either. (just my humble opinion of course).

    i look at Pagani like an expensive watch. A $19 Casio will do the job pretty well or even better, but I like the eye for detail and the fact my watch is a piece of jewelery. Like a bracelett that can also tell you the time, but if I want to know how late it is, I'll take a look at my iPhone.

    The day Pagani stops making cars the way they do now, that's the day they become just another boring car brand and  that's when they will not survive.


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     

    Agree 100%.


    --

    -------

    2003 BMW M3 CSL

    2013 MINI John Cooper Works GP

    2014 BMW Alpina D3 biturbo Touring


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Some people are very sensitive for this brand, but for me too Pagani is typical Italian kit car company.

    Cars are mainly technology for me. If I want "jewels" I will invest in painting etc... indecision


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    noone1:
    I would't think too much of it. Whatever the pressure/output, I'm sure it's how it is for a reason. It's pretty dumb, for a lack of a better word, to think McLaren can't achieve what some small tuners can. It's like thinking Lamborghini couldn't make a 2000hp Gallardo like UGR if they wanted to.

    Please do not confuse all tuners, There will be a 3.9l  Mezger turbo endurance racing in VLN with 800PS @ 1.1bar (remember the benefits of racing at just 1.1bar in terms of heat are immense), it has taken 30 years of development to get to this level of efficiency. However you cut it higher outputs at lower boost are THE measure of an efficient turbo motor.


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:
    Well if that's the case, then the 12C while listed at 1.4bar will means 0.4bar of pressure and the 2.4bar for the P1 means 1 whole bar above what 12C is putting out.

    McLaren have confirmed P1 has bigger turbos than 12C, so if bigger turbos only netted and extra 0.2 bar of pressure, then something is wrong.

    There was noticeable blow off valve sound in the P! while zero in the 12C, so the pressure is definitely cranked up by a mile.

     

    They have just confused the listings, engineers like to add the atmospheric pressure on but marketeers usually quote as boost above atmospheric.

    Bigger turbos don't "mean" more boost they mean more air flow at lower temperature at the same boost so an additional 0.2bar can mean a lot more air flow.  Also one has to remember that "boost" is simply a measure of back pressure in the intake, if an engine is very efficient then it will use all the air flowing from the turbos to produce hp and this back pressure can reduce. All depends on how they have set up the engine. It looks pretty well set up from the CH report Smiley


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Milanno:

    Whoopsy I am quite surprised with your opinion about Pagani.

     

    indecision

    A lot of members here actually knows that already from another Pagani thread a while ago. I know a lot of people LOVED Pagani, it's just my own personal opinion that I didn't like it as it doesn't tick my boxes.

    I viewed the top end cars like I do with watches. Pretty much same set of googles. I treasured bespoke stuff or at least with a long and storied history. Right now Pagani is still a relatively new brand without much history especially racing success and the fact that they didn't have their own engine is a couple big check boxes left empty in my book. It may have superb eye candy all around the car and Horacio's OCD like focus on little details, but underneath it's still has a 'standard' engine, it's like all those nice watches that uses run of the mill ETA movements. The movement itself is superb and the watch makers may have modified it to fits their needs, but it's still a 'standard' movement. I prefer buying watches with in-house movements. I see right through the top dressing and look first at the heart. To many there is absolutely nothing wrong but it's just not my taste as I am at times quirky. 

    I have seen the Huayra with the matched weave body panels in person, it really was something special. I also watched a couple TV shows on the Pagani brand. I admire the spirit and effort of Horacio in making his version of the perfect sports car. When they make their own engine, Pagani the brand will surely pop up on my radar, but I not sure if I can stand the rapper style interior though.

     


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    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    McLaren P1: Technical Analysis...

    "Richard Meaden talks with McLaren P1 programme director Paul Mackenzie about the hypercar's clever aerodynamic and cooling features..."

    McLaren P1: Technical Analysis -- Evo Video Link

    ...thanks and all due credit to Richard Meaden!

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official


    Pagani is at least selling another 500-1000 cars away before they have the real budget to even try and put a hybrid system in their car. The 'upgrade' and 'personal touches' are nice, but it really is nothing too much to ask for from Pagani when they had sold so few cars. It's easy for them to do such 'personal' touches. Watch them trying to maintain that program after they had over 10.000 customers.

     

    Whoopsy, Pagani sold about 130 cars in its history  from 1999 to 2013. I guess "500 - 1000" cars aways is a challenging proposition for them and 10,000 will probably not happen. I had the privilege to visit the Pagani workshop, it is an amazing place and the care and the attention to detail is second to none . I agree they don't really compete with the P1 and 918 (and LaF for that matter) simply because those are (as Suzy wrote) art creations that fill in a niche not covererd by the "typical" hyper cars made by the big guys . This man (Horacio Pagani) is fulfilling his lifelong dream , great respect to him and to the ones alike.

    This is a nice interview of Horacio Pagani:  http://youtu.be/hZYRpM5i6io


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Pagani is what Ferrari,Maserati and Lamborghini used to be, today those are big companies with accounants just as smart as the engeneers


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    McLaren P1: Technical Analysis...

    "Richard Meaden talks with McLaren P1 programme director Paul Mackenzie about the hypercar's clever aerodynamic and cooling features..."

    McLaren P1: Technical Analysis -- Evo Video Link

    ...thanks and all due credit to Richard Meaden!

    Smiley SmileySmiley

    McLaren P1: Flames, drifts and an unforgettable noise...

    "Richard Meaden takes the McLaren P1 on its most extreme track drive, pushing it to its limits around the Yas Marina Circuit in Abu Dhabi."

    McLaren P1: Flames, drifts and an unforgettable noise -- Evo Video Link

    ...thanks again and all due credit to Richard Meaden!

    Smiley SmileySmiley



    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    nberry:

    Dan Neil's opinion of the P1.

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579435351712425862?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.co...

    Maybe the values won't drop after all  Smiley . It will be interesting to see what happens.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Akebono is a company name that makes the P1's brake disks, not a brake surfacing technique mail

     


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