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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Well clearly Americans just don’t care:

    https://apple.news/AAprpXVbZQUu-jKGCGZNLFw

    Europe is going to be a niche market for tesla anyway expect pocket of Nordic countries.

    It is not surprising biased European reviews come out now to defend their industry, anyway since there is no charging infrastructure now nor enough money in households to have chargers at home in masses, it is a moot point. Handling on a mountain road? How many people even have a mountain road around them? Surely it is hard for this car enthusiast group here to comprehend that for 99% of the poluplation, the handling is good enough and far down the list of things that matter when purchasing a car.

     

    One look at this forum is enough to know us 911 owners are never satisfied, we always demand more and complain this and that. No matter what Porsche gives us we are still not satisfied, I am surprised that a 911 ranked that high  Smiley

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Well clearly Americans just don’t care:

    https://apple.news/AAprpXVbZQUu-jKGCGZNLFw

    The US market is already saturated of Model 3, if Tesla can expand its sales to RoW it will be in trouble, hence the point others where trying to make.

    It is not surprising biased European reviews come out now to defend their industry, anyway since there is no charging infrastructure now nor enough money in households to have chargers at home in masses, it is a moot point.

    European reviewers defending their industry? c'mon it is looking very desperate to find excuses, can't you just accept that Europeans may have different standards and preferences in cars? 

    Also, if someone has money to buy a Tesla, they can afford to spend $1000 more to have a household charger installed  1325269639981rolleyes.gif
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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Well clearly Americans just don’t care:

    https://apple.news/AAprpXVbZQUu-jKGCGZNLFw

    Europe is going to be a niche market for tesla anyway expect pocket of Nordic countries.

    It is not surprising biased European reviews come out now to defend their industry, anyway since there is no charging infrastructure now nor enough money in households to have chargers at home in masses, it is a moot point. Handling on a mountain road? How many people even have a mountain road around them? Surely it is hard for this car enthusiast group here to comprehend that for 99% of the poluplation, the handling is good enough and far down the list of things that matter when purchasing a car.

    If the handling is sh*t it is sh*t. I.e. reviews that point that out are not biased. Very simple, isn't it?


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Well clearly Americans just don’t care:

    https://apple.news/AAprpXVbZQUu-jKGCGZNLFw

    Europe is going to be a niche market for tesla anyway expect pocket of Nordic countries.

    It is not surprising biased European reviews come out now to defend their industry, anyway since there is no charging infrastructure now nor enough money in households to have chargers at home in masses, it is a moot point. Handling on a mountain road? How many people even have a mountain road around them? Surely it is hard for this car enthusiast group here to comprehend that for 99% of the poluplation, the handling is good enough and far down the list of things that matter when purchasing a car.

    BTW, Rennteam is a place for people who are knowledgeable about cars. We don't need people who are also satisfied with driving a Chevrolet Blazer... 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The Model 3 barely has side bolsters on the seat, I don't think they are sufficient for even moderately hard driving.  But anyway, it doesn't really matter, Tesla appeals to a different part of the brain and is a different kind of "enthusiasm" than expressed by the traditional sports car driver.  It's more like an Apple product than a car.

    As I mentioned in my review above though, I think it's a very good daily driver for many people, just very expensive.

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    NHTSA’s Implausible Safety Claim for Tesla’s Autosteer Driver Assistance System [1]

    tl;dr ?
    "In January 2017, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) published the remarkable claim that the airbag deployment crash rate dropped by almost 40 percent in Tesla passenger vehicles equipped with the Autopilot Technology Package [...]  the overall 40 per- cent reduction in the crash rates reported by NHTSA following the installation of Autosteer is an artifact of the Agency’s treatment of mileage information"

    Heise has an interesting German summary [2].

    [1] http://www.safetyresearch.net/Library/NHTSA_Autosteer_Safety_Claim.pdf
    [2]  https://www.heise.de/autos/artikel/Rechenfehler-Tesla-Autosteer-senkt-Unfallrate-nicht-4303949.html

     

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Yep, this has been reported a couple of days ago. Pretty weird. So basically, the system is not as safe as Elon Musk claims and the NHTSA basically messed up big time and probably even tried to cover up the whole story.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:

    Yep, this has been reported a couple of days ago. Pretty weird. So basically, the system is not as safe as Elon Musk claims and the NHTSA basically messed up big time and probably even tried to cover up the whole story.

    This is what Heise claims


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    A more concise summary of the report: http://www.thedrive.com/tech/26455/nhtsas-flawed-autopilot-safety-study-unmasked


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    using statistical regression, Whitfield determined that the installation of Autosteer was not associated with a decreased risk of an airbag deployment crash, when controlling for exposure mileage. His analysis actually found that "Autosteer is actually associated with an increase in the odds ratio of airbag deployment by more than a factor of 2.4."

     

     if Whitfield hadn't tenaciously persisted in suing NHTSA the truth might never have come to light. This raises a fundamental question that NHTSA must answer: why was it more concerned about competitive harm to Tesla than it was about transparency to the public whose taxes provide its budget, and whom it ostensibly serves? 

    Tesla is partly responsible for these accidents for marketing and selling the system as an autopilot when in fact it is just a driver assistance system which leads to idiots using the system as an autonomous driving system not paying attention to the road anymore while it is engaged. Would chalk it up to a Darwin award for those drivers when they had an accident if it werent for the fact that it is also risk for the other innocent drivers sharing the road with them.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Indeed, self driving is much harder than many anticipated. Tesla made a big mistake pushing it so hard so early.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    we have to think that almost all people today have a car just because they need it to take them froma a to b, and don't give a shit in the car....sad but it is like that


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    993 c2


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    May be a repost, but it should tell you what kind of people are really into all this electric (Tesla...) hoax   angry

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHPg2Mi2roI


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    BiTurbo:

    May be a repost, but it should tell you what kind of people are really into all this electric (Tesla...) hoax   angry

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHPg2Mi2roI

    The video itself is, in my opinion, a hoax to create clicks. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    For those who are interested, Tesla Inc has filed a 10-K annual report for 2018.

    1550588589604image.png

    There is an abundance of disclosure available for anyone to read and digest...  1550096185373image.gif

    1550587837412image.jpeg

    1550587848285image.jpeg

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    1550587921491image.jpeg

    1550587933536image.jpeg

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    1550587951476image.jpeg1550587959098image.jpeg

    1550588049529image.jpeg

    1550588060157image.jpeg

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    For those with an interest in legal matters... Smiley

    1550588086769image.jpeg

    Link:  http://ir.tesla.com/static-files/15df7636-8cd8-4b18-989b-4badeeda806c


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla has completely scrubbed the Model 3 standard battery from its website, raising questions about the long-awaited base model

    https://apple.news/ApbjlJTUTSgy1LnOrCgG4yg

    and the stock is completely unchanged, looks like nobody cares about that or the 10-K.

    It also looks like the powerwall is in short supply for solar panel installers as the production might have been redirected to model 3 battery production. All in, quite a lot of conflicting informations, you can read it any way you want.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Not quite Tesla territory; however, former Volkswagen Chairman Ferdinand Piëch will unveil a new car, bearing his name, at Geneva International Auto Show, according to British motoring journal Auto Express:   https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/geneva-motor-show/106046/piech-mark-zero-concept-leaked-ahead-of-geneva-debut

    It was rumored that Aston Martin had divested its old platform to Morgan Motors, not a new organization.  It must be nice to have the financial means to create a toy in retirement. 



    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Hmm that's click bait. There is nothing of substance there.


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Why does Tesla continue to lose senior executives? 

    "Tesla’s Top Lawyer Is Leaving. His Tenure at the Company: Two Months."

    (20 February 2019)

    After lurching from crisis to crisis last year, Tesla appeared to have found its footing in January when it reported its second consecutive quarterly profit and said it had more than enough cash to pay off bonds coming due in March.

    The calm did not last.

    On Wednesday, Tesla said its general counsel was leaving the job after just two months. It was the second unexpected departure of a high-level Tesla executive in less than a month and one of dozens in the last three years.

    The general counsel, Dane Butswinkas, was a prominent Washington trial lawyer who represented the company’s chief executive, Elon Musk, when he was sued by the Securities and Exchange Commission last year over claims that he had secured funding to take the company private. Tesla said Mr. Butswinkas had decided to return to his law firm and would be replaced by Jonathan Chang, a vice president in its legal department.

    Three weeks earlier, on Jan. 30, Mr. Musk surprised analysts on a conference call by announcing that Tesla’s chief financial officer, Deepak Ahuja, would retire without saying exactly when. Last year, Tesla’s chief accounting officer, David Morton, stepped down after just a month on the job. Mr. Morton’s predecessor, Eric Branderiz, left after 14 months. All told, Tesla has lost more than 40 senior executives since the beginning of 2016, according to a list compiled by Reuters.

    Link:  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/business/tesla-general-counsel.html

    ...

    Factbox: Tesla executive departures since 2016 

    1550736051508image.jpeg

    20 February 2019 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc on Wednesday announced the departure of its general counsel Dane Butswinkas, just two months into the job, the latest in a string of senior level exits from the electric carmaker. 

    Following is a list of executive departures from Tesla since 2016: 

    2019

    Feb. 20 - General counsel Dane Butswinkas will be replaced by Jonathan Chang, effectively immediately, the company said in an email statement to Reuters. 

    Jan. 30 - Chief Financial Officer Deepak Ahuja to leave but to continue as a senior adviser. 

    2018

    Nov. 27 - Jeff Jones, head of global security, is no longer working with Tesla Inc after just 11 months on the job, CNBC reported, citing one current and one former employee. cnb.cx/2KGT2Ny

    Oct. 17 - Gilbert Passin, vice president of manufacturing, has left, according to a Business Insider report. reut.rs/2ymyLHM

    Sept. 20 - Liam O'Connor, vice president of global supply management resigned from the company, Bloomberg reported, citing sources familiar with the matter. reut.rs/2CmylUSSept. 12- Justin McAnear, vice president of worldwide finance and operation, said he would be leaving Tesla to take a CFO role at another company. 

    Sept. 7 - Gabrielle Toledano, chief people officer at Tesla, leaves the company. reut.rs/2NrTnXS

    Sept. 4 - Dave Morton, chief accounting officer at Tesla, resigns just a month after starting work, according to a company filing. reut.rs/2NrTnXS

    July - Ganesh Srivats, vice president at Tesla leaves company to become chief executive officer at Moda Operandi Inc bit.ly/2NvCJac

    July - Doug Field, senior vice president of engineering, stepped down after five years with the electric carmaker. bit.ly/2P4nVjf

    June- Karim Bousta, vice-president of worldwide service and customer experience, left the company, automotive news website Electrek reported. bit.ly/2N9pLj1

    May- Cal Lankton stepped down as senior vice president of energy operations and will be replaced by Sanjay Shah from Amazon.com Inc, according to a Bloomberg report. bloom.bg/2x89XC6

    May - Matthew Schwall, director of field performance engineering, exits to join Alphabet Inc's self-driving unit, Waymo. reut.rs/2rIFnxb

    April - Georg Ell, director of Tesla's Western Europe operations, leaves to head UK-based Smoothwall. bit.ly/2rJEKCt

    March - Chief Accounting Officer Eric Branderiz exits after joining in October 2016. reut.rs/2rI6OXD

    March - Susan Repo, corporate treasurer and vice president of finance, exits to become chief financial officer at another company. bloom.bg/2FFA4HB

    February - Jon McNeill, president of global sales and services, leaves to join ride-hailing company Lyft as chief operating officer. reut.rs/2GgaLr6

    January - Jason Mendez, director of manufacturing engineering, leaves after more than 12 years. bit.ly/2InKIQO

    January - Will McColl, manager of equipment engineering, leaves after seven years. bit.ly/2InKIQO

    2017

    December - Erik Fogelberg, vice president of commercial sales, America, Tesla Energy left the company after 11 months. He joined as vice president of global sales for NEC Energy Solutions last month. bit.ly/2QdgnZh

    November - Jon Wagner, director of battery engineering, who joined in 2013 exits to launch a battery and powertrain startup in California. reut.rs/2L3CFu4

    September - Diarmuid O'Connell, vice president of business development, departs. reut.rs/2KpjeuJ

    August - Marco Krapels, vice president of international expansion, solar & battery storage, left the company after six months and currently serves as the founder and chief executive officer of Micropower-Comerc, according to his LinkedIn profile. bit.ly/2NZ3FMx

    August - Kurt Kelty, director of battery technology and then one of the longest serving company executives, exits. He led negotiations with Panasonic on the company's gigafactory in Nevada. bloom.bg/2vhrcSD

    July - SolarCity co-founder Peter Rive leaves the company, eight months after Tesla bought the biggest U.S. residential solar panel maker. reut.rs/2Krcnkh

    June - Chris Lattner, vice president of autopilot leaves within six months of joining. reut.rs/2rL6l6e

    June - SolarCity founder Lyndon Rive leaves the electric vehicle maker. reut.rs/2rJnY6u

    May - Arnnon Geshuri, who led HR at Tesla for more than eight years, departs. bit.ly/2IGwKg8

    April - Chief Financial Officer Jason Wheeler leaves to pursue public policy projects; replaced by Deepak Ahuja, who served as CFO before Wheeler. read.bi/2wI4Zir

    March - Mark Lipscomb, vice president of human resources, departs to join streaming service provider Netflix. bit.ly/2rF3zzw

    March - Satish Jeyachandran, director of hardware engineering, leaves after seven years with the company; later joins Waymo. bit.ly/2IloGSs

    March - David Nister, vice president of autopilot vision, departs to join chipmaker Nvidia. read.bi/2jWtteA

    March - Klaus Grohmann ousted after a clash with CEO Elon Musk over the strategy at Grohmann's firm, which Tesla had acquired in November. Grohmann Engineering helped companies design highly automated factories. reut.rs/2wJjbYF

    January - JLM Energy says Ardes Johnson, who worked as director of sales at Tesla Energy, joins as a vice president. bit.ly/2rJUqWh

    January - Sterling Anderson, head of Tesla's autopilot system, leaves company. Tesla sued him for trying to recruit company engineers for his new venture while still with Tesla, and in April withdrew the lawsuit after a settlement. reut.rs/2IjRLK9

    2016

    December - Mateo Jaramillo, vice president of Tesla Energy, leaves after seven years. bit.ly/2wHbGBs

    July - Rich Heley, vice president of product technology, departs to join Facebook. bit.ly/2rJnXjb

    May - Josh Ensign, vice president of manufacturing, leaves; joins startup Proterra as chief operating officer. read.bi/2IHq4hS

    May - Greg Reichow, vice president of production, leaves as the company prepares to launch Model 3, and sharply ramp up production. reut.rs/2InGIQi

    April - James Chen, vice president of regulatory affairs and deputy general counsel, leaves to join rival Faraday Future. read.bi/2rI1P8P

    March - Ricardo Reyes, vice president of global communications, leaves. bloom.bg/2ImDzUY

    March - Michael Zanoni, vice president of finance and worldwide controller, departs to join Amazon. bit.ly/2rHW9eU

    January - Chief Information Officer Jay Vijayan leaves Tesla to create his own startup. on.wsj.com/2wG39P7

    Link:  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-executives-factbox/factbox-tesla-executive-departures-since-2016-idUSKCN1Q91VK

    ...any ideas? Smiley 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Maybe Elon Musk is a very difficult person to work with? yes


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Maybe money alone can't compensate for working in an insane environment... 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Here’s an example of why it is difficult to work with Musk.  https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/20/elon-musk-tweeted-then-revised-tesla-financial-guidance.html


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    No doubt working with Musk must be very challenging, it is like Trump, rule by chaos.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    No doubt working with Musk must be very challenging, it is like Trump, rule by chaos.

    Smiley I can imagine this can be very challenging but to be honest, I would probably thrive in such chaos, it would never get boring. Smiley Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Or more like the more you know about that company, the more you don't want to be the one standing without a chair when the music stops?


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla's incredible efficiency lead is becoming clear with range test against Audi e-tron and Jaguar I-Pace

    https://apple.news/AyQQDsrJ6TKSwatWlvG6IBQ

     

    Sure Tesla is shaking in their boots... not smiley Btw this is a German test... and that’s a 7 seater X vs a Q5 and an iPace, not even in the same size category. Tesla is a decade ahead because it designed the car to be EV from the ground up, the others are ICE adapted to EV.

    On another note CR removes their recommendation for model 3 (again ).


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Hmm, can't eve do 400km at highway speed? My Turbo S Exclusive can do almost 700km.........

    Tesla still have a long way to go efficiency sake.

    But not surprised that Tesla beats the I-Pace and e-tron. Those 2 are SUVs with SUV Cd, Model X is a minivan with a minivan Cd.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Audi prioritized different parameters than Tesla for its e-tron SUV and ultimate range per charge wasn't one of Audi's key parameters.  For many years, EV fanatics have told everyone that the overall range of the battery pack didn't matter because EV owners can leave home every morning with a "full tank of fuel" with overnight  charging.  Than they extended that argument to include fast charging locations conveniently positioned along major roadways.  Now when other automakers are introducing viable EVs, the Tesla cult has, once again, attempted to shift the discussion to overall efficiency.  

    It is a moot point as overall vehicle efficiency has taken a back seat to other optimized parameters including fast charging.  Audi, for example, has focused on delivering a SUV experience coupled with faster charging rates than those found with Teslas.  While Audi has quoted 95 kWh overall battery capacity, the usable capacity is about 83 kWh to allow for efficient charging up to 80% SoC and to help eliminate the issues with charging taper found in other EVs.  A successful transition for most ICE owners to EVs will only occur when it is virtually seamless.  Audi is addressing that situation, and part of those design decisions required making the e-tron appear slightly less efficient than the relatively similar Tesla Model X.  

    Volkswagen Group does know how to design very efficient vehicles as witness by the company developing the first 3L/100 km and first 1L/100 km vehicles almost twenty years ago.  This time the company, through Audi, has focused on delivering a truly premium SUV experience.  The following video link is a very fair assessment of the new e-tron: https://insideevs.com/video-audi-e-tron-driven-reviewed-by-e-for-electric/  Let me know when someone posts a similar off-road comparison using the Tesla Model X. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://www.autoblog.com/2019/02/21/tesla-model-3-reliability-problems-owners/

    Here is the article for CR pulling the recommendation.

    When Tesla build them slowly, aka the initial cars, they build them better and hence the recommendation.

    Then they discovered the bad brakes and pull them before putting them back on once Tesla fixed the issue.

    Now it's about quality, or lack of. Which came from Elon pushing them out the door too quickly to try and meet production target to support stock price, instead of building them correctly for their customers.

    Tesla is still not out of the woods yet. Their convertible bonds looks like will need to be repay in cash instead of stocks, and the majority of the rest of their 'cash' is actually in the forms of customer deposits for the Model 3 and the new Speedster, the former is fully refundable, if only Tesla doesn't drag their feet on paying back customers' money.

     


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