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    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    turbolite:
    Even more worrysome as that the suspension modifications are not even on their price list... 

    Actually the Sportauto article does not mention "suspension modifications". The only thing mentioned are "Sturzwerte" = camber. Of course all the cars leaving the factory come with a very mild set up regarding camber because it's the better compromise for street driving (and for those who prefer understeer instead of oversteer once they push too hard Smiley). 
    That's not a speciality of the Turbo, it's valid for all Porsches - even the GT3 comes with a ridiculous 1°20" for the front whels....

    As for the price list: any P-shop will be able to change the camber to your likings for small money.

     


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    the turbo is porsche's allround power daily driver and not the über-porsche it used to be.

    i think it's performance is great and a good mix of sportiness and comfort.

    for sports enthusiasts it's gt2, gt3 or gt3rs.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    Latest issue of AMS - R8 V10 R-tronic vs. GT-R and Turbo PDK

    Hockenheimring:

    1. 1.11,5 min - Turbo PDK (on Potenzas)
    2. 1.12,0 min - GT-R
    3. 1.12,3 min - R8 V10

     


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    intouch1:

    the turbo is porsche's allround power daily driver and not the über-porsche it used to be.

    i think it's performance is great and a good mix of sportiness and comfort.

    for sports enthusiasts it's gt2, gt3 or gt3rs.

    IMO the present day Turbo is an excellent all-round car, because you can see it is as a very comfortable, daily use super-sportscar OR as a GT car with excellent sportiness.

    It can satisfy requirements across a wide spectrum.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    turbolite:

     That's a very good point. The car clearly has stunning engine performance but after adding performance extras worth 25 k Porsche is still not sure enough of the track performance of their new jewel as they have to send a 'tuned' version to the sportauto test. Even more worrysome as that the suspension modifications are not even on their price list... 

    If any other manufacturer would have sent such a car to a sportauto test, there would have been an outcry!  Smiley

    See Porsche-Jeck's (and others') excellent response above. Camber change is the most basic and fundamental of changes to be done when a car is at the track. It's a step above adjusting the tire pressure Smiley. This is no complicated "trick" and most definitely nothing to "worry" about. http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html (pardon me if you already know all of this).

    But your post brings up another interesting point of discussion. In the old days, maybe there could exist a car that did well at both track and street level. In the 21st century, performance level has been raised to such a high level that nowadays IMO no single car could be expected to be both perfect-10 street and track car.  If there is any doubt about this, ask yourself  20, or even 10 years ago how many daily-driver did the Ring in under 8 minutes. A dedicated track car could not be a reasonable street car, and a street car could not be an all-out track car. You will have to choose one or the other.
    Understanding the mission of the Turbo, an all around mostly street, partly track car, is the same as understanding that you can't expect a minivan to take corners at 70 mph, or a motorcycle to carry 4 passengers. One has to understand and pick a car that fits one's needs, and this is why PAG has different models of cars.

    Which car do you have? Is it 996 Turbo? If anything the 996 Turbo, based on spring rate data alone, might be even softer than 997 Turbo. And if anything, I have no doubt whatsoever for the 996 Turbo to be even reasonably acceptable at the track, one needs to increase the negative camber also. And I am sure there would be no "outcry." Smiley

    PS: Porsche-Jeck  that's a gorgeous picture of your car in the signature. Perfect angle, beautiful background.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    intouch1:

    the turbo is porsche's allround power daily driver and not the über-porsche it used to be.

    i think it's performance is great and a good mix of sportiness and comfort.

    for sports enthusiasts it's gt2, gt3 or gt3rs.

     

    Right. Otherwise there would not be enough "justification" for a GT3 or GT3 RS or even GT2.

    Porsche could easily offer a kit to make the 997 Turbo the perfect track car. Who would buy a GT3/GT2 anymore if they would do that ? Smiley

    I love the Turbo, most drivers can't come even close to the capabilities this car offers.

    Still...if I would win the lottery, my next car would probably be the GT3 RS.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    I forgot to add some info re. the camber setting.

    Street car comes with "street camber" because of better tire wear and more benign handling such that if the wife decides to take the car for a ride, she wouldn't take down a tree or worse, pedestrians. "Track camber" has better cornering force, but results in oversteer, worse tire wear, etc., so the factory doesn't send the car out with this setting.

    When you bring said street car to the track, you change to track camber. When you leave the track, you change to street camber. This is the "alignment" change that the modders always talk about. It's that simple; nothing to "worry" about. Smiley

    RC:

    Porsche could easily offer a kit to make the 997 Turbo the perfect track car. Who would buy a GT3/GT2 anymore if they would do that ? Smiley


     
    Exactly right! Well the GT2 would still be king of the track because of the weight advantage and 2WD.
    But... yes I agree... because of chassis similarity Porsche could VERY EASILY turn the Turbo into a 4WD version of the GT2 by giving it the same suspension tuning & take away the clutch assist.

    But then, what car would people in LA drive to work with, especially when it rains or the traffic miserable? Smiley


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    These are extremely intelligent and informative posts--thanks guys...


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    The 997GT3 "street" alignment specs are not achievable on a factory 997 turbo without lowering springs. You need to lower about 15-20mm to be able to achieve the -1.2 camber in front. The other option is to change to the 2 piece GT3 lower control arms, which would allow greater camber adjustments.


    --

    track vid

    0-300kph

    chasing a 997GT2

     

     


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    cannga:

    In the 21st century, performance level has been raised to such a high level that nowadays IMO no single car could be expected to be both perfect-10 street and track car.  If there is any doubt about this, ask yourself  20, or even 10 years ago how many daily-driver did the Ring in under 8 minutes.

    PS: Porsche-Jeck  that's a gorgeous picture of your car in the signature. Perfect angle, beautiful background.
     

     

    Yes, cannga - I agree with you. There is no such thing as the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" (egg laying wool milk sow Smiley) but the TT is pretty close...

    AFAIK the first production car doing the 'Ring in under 8 minutes was the 996 GT3 MKI (ten years ago).

    Thanks for the nice words on the pic Smiley - though the applause has to go to a Dutch photographer who by chance caught me on my virgin lap with the GT3 in the Green Hell Smiley 

    @ eclou: I know that the GT3 is easier to prepare for the track (all the important components can be adjusted easily) than the TT, but a negative camber of 1°20" is not that much IMHO and should be possible without any other "mods" also for the TT, no ? On the GT3 I run - 3°20" (front) and it just feels right on the track... 

     

     


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    Porsche-Jeck:
    turbolite:
    Even more worrysome as that the suspension modifications are not even on their price list... 

    Actually the Sportauto article does not mention "suspension modifications". The only thing mentioned are "Sturzwerte" = camber. Of course all the cars leaving the factory come with a very mild set up regarding camber because it's the better compromise for street driving (and for those who prefer understeer instead of oversteer once they push too hard Smiley). 
    That's not a speciality of the Turbo, it's valid for all Porsches - even the GT3 comes with a ridiculous 1°20" for the front whels....

    As for the price list: any P-shop will be able to change the camber to your likings for small money.

     


    Got almost the same answer from my P contact. Rollcage CS package do not include different suspension setup. As you said any P shop can change camber values for more extensive track driving.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    cannga:
    turbolite:

    That's a very good point. The car clearly has stunning engine performance but after adding performance extras worth 25 k Porsche is still not sure enough of the track performance of their new jewel as they have to send a 'tuned' version to the sportauto test. Even more worrysome as that the suspension modifications are not even on their price list... 

    If any other manufacturer would have sent such a car to a sportauto test, there would have been an outcry!  Smiley

    See Porsche-Jeck's (and others') excellent response above. Camber change is the most basic and fundamental of changes to be done when a car is at the track. It's a step above adjusting the tire pressure Smiley. This is no complicated "trick" and most definitely nothing to "worry" about. http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html (pardon me if you already know all of this).

     

    Can,

    excellent comment as always but I beg to differ. Camber adjustments are certainly "easy" to obtain but each setting has, as you said above, its strenghts and weaknesses. So far, one cannot adjust these settings permanently but just as UHP or semi-slick tires, the added performance comes with decreased versatility.

    If a manufacturer used more aggressive suspension settings on the test car, as SportAuto implies and clearly mentions in this case, it should be clearly addressed. It´d be the same behaviour as using track-focussed tires, springs or dampers on a car, just as being used by some manufacturers for the Supertest. Which significance does such a track time have?

    Some members on this board have commented on Nissan´s official Nürburgring laptime and implied that the specific car must have featured different hp rating or a different suspension/tire setup. Why is it any different if Porsche provides a healthy testcar with proper suspension setting? Let´s not apply double standards here...Smiley

     

    cannga:

     

    But your post brings up another interesting point of discussion. In the old days, maybe there could exist a car that did well at both track and street level. In the 21st century, performance level has been raised to such a high level that nowadays IMO no single car could be expected to be both perfect-10 street and track car.  If there is any doubt about this, ask yourself  20, or even 10 years ago how many daily-driver did the Ring in under 8 minutes. A dedicated track car could not be a reasonable street car, and a street car could not be an all-out track car. You will have to choose one or the other.
    Understanding the mission of the Turbo, an all around mostly street, partly track car, is the same as understanding that you can't expect a minivan to take corners at 70 mph, or a motorcycle to carry 4 passengers. One has to understand and pick a car that fits one's needs, and this is why PAG has different models of cars.

     

    I do not understand your comment, no car, neither today nor a few decades ago, has been able to be perfectly suitable on both road and track. It still is and always has been a compromise, one that the current GT3 for example is a very well executed example for.

    The technology input that has been established on the combustion engine has yet to fully arrive on the field of suspension. The current adaptive dampers and actively adjustable swaybars, as currently featured on SUVs, will arrive on smaller and cheaper cars once the premium will be significantly reduced. I predict an arrival of further active suspenion elements in the next decade as even actively adjustable cambersettings have been under development already.

    There has been an optional X73 sport suspension on the 996 TT, an option that is not even featured on the 997 TT. The performance gap from 996 to 997 TT was rather insignificant, despite more sophisticated suspension and tire technology, more advanced AWD system and higher engine output, even more so if you take the former´s performance with sport suspension into consideration.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    Porsche-Jeck:

    Actually the Sportauto article does not mention "suspension modifications". The only thing mentioned are "Sturzwerte" = camber. Of course all the cars leaving the factory come with a very mild set up regarding camber because it's the better compromise for street driving (and for those who prefer understeer instead of oversteer once they push too hard Smiley). 

    With some healthy reservation reg. SportAuto´s articles, why does it premise the purchase of the so-called "Clubsport package" to obtain the different susp. setup then? None of this is included in the pricelist, only the common roll-bar.Smiley

    Of course, understeer is unhealthy... Smiley


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    Ferdie,

    I was not addressing that "politics" aspect of Ring time at all and do agree with you: no double standard.

    OTOH, there is sin, and there is **SIN**. (Now I *am* addressing it.) Assuming the change is indeed just camber, then adjusting camber is a far far cry from making a near 3900 lbs car fly around the ring at 7:29.
    In addition, as eclou pointed out above, unless they do something *else* to the car like lowering and using different suspension arm/spring/coilover, the camber change will by definition be very little and very benign. It is indeed a tiny change in the overall scheme of things.
    The analogy perhaps is the Olympics swimmer wearing a special swim suit, versus one who wears a special swim suit AND take steroid.

    But using absolute standard, you're right, a change is a change, and every single change from stock needs to be mentioned. I doubt that would ever happen though. And with Nissan still insisting that 7:29 happens in a stock car, is it fair to apply the requirement to PAG?

    Lastly & btw, I actually have high respect for the technical achievement of the Nissan GTR,  I am not sure if Porsche would have been so aggressive and so quick with 997.2's improvements (PDK, torque vectoring, etc.) had it not been for Nissan. It's only the look & the weight of the GTR that I took exception with, and my perhaps biased opinion that, although there has always been gamesmanship with Ring time, Nissan has stepped over the line, beyond gamesmanship into whatever ethical "territory" it is, that turns sin into **SIN** Smiley, with that 7:29 claim.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    Ferdie:
    Porsche-Jeck:

    Actually the Sportauto article does not mention "suspension modifications". The only thing mentioned are "Sturzwerte" = camber. Of course all the cars leaving the factory come with a very mild set up regarding camber because it's the better compromise for street driving (and for those who prefer understeer instead of oversteer once they push too hard Smiley). 

    With some healthy reservation reg. SportAuto´s articles, why does it premise the purchase of the so-called "Clubsport package" to obtain the different susp. setup then? None of this is included in the pricelist, only the common roll-bar.Smiley


     

    I wouldn't read too much into the Sportauto paragraph about the camber adjustment. From what I understood the article says "if you get the Clubsport package not only to show off but for driving on the track we recommend to get the camber adjusted". It's not an option in the pricelist it's just an IMHO reasonable recommendation. Of course any P-shop can do the same on a non-Clubsport TT Smiley

    As for the "cheating" (laptime improvement): not sure what a simple camber adjustment can do Smiley

    After I brought the GT3 to Manthey I found some 10-12 sec on NoS, but of course they did a lot more than just camber adjustment (corner balancing, adjustment of anti roll bars, aerodynamics and sharper LSD clutches)


    --
     

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    cannga:

    Lastly & btw, I actually have high respect for the technical achievement of the Nissan GTR,  I am not sure if Porsche would have been so aggressive and so quick with 997.2's improvements (PDK, torque vectoring, etc.) had it not been for Nissan.

     

    I totally agree with you, laptime on HHR short circuit improved by 1.8 sec on similiar tires. Admittedly, the performance improvement on the 997 Turbo finally shows the same incline as on previous generations.

    What I haven´t read too much about is how well the PTV system is calibrated. Smiley


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    Porsche-Jeck:

    @ eclou: I know that the GT3 is easier to prepare for the track (all the important components can be adjusted easily) than the TT, but a negative camber of 1°20" is not that much IMHO and should be possible without any other "mods" also for the TT, no ? On the GT3 I run - 3°20" (front) and it just feels right on the track... 

     

     

    you are absolutely right in that -1.2 is really mild camber, but the turbo does not have the adjustable lower control arms and about -0.8 or -0.9 is all you can get from a stock ride height car. On my track 944 turbo I run closer to -3.5 front and -2.8 rear


    --

    track vid

    0-300kph

    chasing a 997GT2

     

     


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    Ferdie:

    Can,

    excellent comment as always but I beg to differ. Camber adjustments are certainly "easy" to obtain but each setting has, as you said above, its strenghts and weaknesses. So far, one cannot adjust these settings permanently but just as UHP or semi-slick tires, the added performance comes with decreased versatility.

    If a manufacturer used more aggressive suspension settings on the test car, as SportAuto implies and clearly mentions in this case, it should be clearly addressed. It´d be the same behaviour as using track-focussed tires, springs or dampers on a car, just as being used by some manufacturers for the Supertest. Which significance does such a track time have?

    Some members on this board have commented on Nissan´s official Nürburgring laptime and implied that the specific car must have featured different hp rating or a different suspension/tire setup. Why is it any different if Porsche provides a healthy testcar with proper suspension setting? Let´s not apply double standards here...Smiley

     

    Thanks Ferdie, this was exactly the point I was trying to make! 

    Smiley

     

    The comments of Porsche Jeck and Can are well understood but fall short as unfortunately you need to have standards at which these cars can be measured.

    These standards  do not include 'extreme Surzwerte" as you can get when modifying the setup at the Porsche Dealer. The same dealer could also modify the cats, the suspension and the ecu - so where does it end?

    In fact sportauto very correctly and professionally mentions this modification exactly because it influences the time they measured. This also means that this excellent time can not be reached with the car as it comes off the production line.

    Does it make sense to change the camber if one goes to the track more often? of course it does, but so do a million other mods on a car.  

    Mentioning the 7.29 claimed by Nissan for the GTR also misses the point. Who cares what Nissan claims and who should care about what Porsche claims for their cars?The yardstick for the 997.2 tt will be the 7.38 measured for the GTR  by sportauto. This time needs to be beaten  - and clearly in order for the Porsche just catch up with the GTR give its superior power to weight ratio. 

    So dont get me wrong, I love the 997.2 tt but - as Ferdie mentioned above and as I wrote in my letter published on sportauto after the 997tt test - Porsche has made a lousy job performance wise with the 997tt as a successor to the 996tt.  

    So this 997.2 tt now finally has to deliver a 'lupenreines' (perfect) test result without any modification (except the generally accepted UHP tires) to live up to the promise made to the customers! Otherwise we are just looking at marketing claims...

    Smiley

     

     


    --
    turbolite

    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    turbolite:
    So this 997.2 tt now finally has to deliver a 'lupenreines' (perfect) test result without any modification (except the generally accepted UHP tires) to live up to the promise made to the customers! 

     

     

    Your post brings up yet another interesting point that I haven't touched upon. Smiley As much as I follow NRing time performance, I cringe whenever I see this type of statement by us amateurs (meaning me too), that hangs the success of a car, a daily-driver no less, entirely on NRing time.

    Please allow me to explain. The NRing time is the work of the very best of professional drivers, driving all out, at a level that no amateur could ever hope to come remotely close. How often do you think the Turbo in customers' hand is driven at this level? Having sat next to a professional driver, I would say between 0 and .5% of the time.

    This means, yes, track time is important but it is but one aspect of a car whose mission is for US dentists to use it to commute to work. Do you seriously think Porsche engineers could not make it faster? Just take a look at the spring rate and you will see the answer right there. And then look at GT3 and GT2. Yes they can, but then it would violate the mission of this car: a daily driver for car enthusiasts to drive to work. Smiley That is the promise from PAG re. the Turbo. (I do agree that Nissan forces Porsche into a difficult position: How to keep customers happy (daily driver) yet achieve great Nring time for advertisement, purely advertisement.)

    I said it before: One has to understand the mission of a car. Nring time is but one very very narrow view of the evaluation of an all around daily driver like the Turbo (unlike GT2, GT3). I would suggest the view be widened to other minor Smiley objective and subjective factors: Handling feel, chassis feedback, brake, acceleration, road view, seating position, ugliness, how a near 3900 lbs car would feel. Factors in play when driving at up to 7/10 level and in effect 100% of the time.

    Gorgeous Sunday morning, my wife would like to have brunch with me at a restaurant in Santa Monica, I walk out to the garage and see 2 cars, my Turbo and a GTR. Which car do you think I am going to take? Don't make the mistake of keeping that narrow view because you would miss out on the best daily driver in the world.
     

    turbolite:

    So dont get me wrong, I love the 997.2 tt but - as Ferdie mentioned above and as I wrote in my letter published on sportauto after the 997tt test - Porsche has made a lousy job performance wise with the 997tt as a successor to the 996tt.  

     

    Please don't get me wrong, 996 Turbo is a great car and I am not here to be critical of your fantastic car (never mean to), but there have been numerous threads about whether to save money and buy 996 TT versus 997 TT. The responses by dual owners point to a huge difference in the 2 cars when other objective and subjective factors besides Nring time are taken into consideration and an overwhelming recommendation for 997 TT even at a much higher cost (I have no personal experience; just search rennlist and 6speedonline, and I think RC here might have commented on it also.). The only point about this is that if you judge a daily driver purely by Nring time (which I know 996 and 997 are within a few seconds of each other), you have missed the big picture.

    If Sportauto had seen my post they would not have published your letter. Just kidding. Smiley


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    Porsche-Jeck:
    Ferdie:
    Porsche-Jeck:

    Actually the Sportauto article does not mention "suspension modifications". The only thing mentioned are "Sturzwerte" = camber. Of course all the cars leaving the factory come with a very mild set up regarding camber because it's the better compromise for street driving (and for those who prefer understeer instead of oversteer once they push too hard Smiley). 

    With some healthy reservation reg. SportAuto´s articles, why does it premise the purchase of the so-called "Clubsport package" to obtain the different susp. setup then? None of this is included in the pricelist, only the common roll-bar.Smiley


     

    I wouldn't read too much into the Sportauto paragraph about the camber adjustment. From what I understood the article says "if you get the Clubsport package not only to show off but for driving on the track we recommend to get the camber adjusted". It's not an option in the pricelist it's just an IMHO reasonable recommendation. Of course any P-shop can do the same on a non-Clubsport TT Smiley

    As for the "cheating" (laptime improvement): not sure what a simple camber adjustment can do Smiley

    After I brought the GT3 to Manthey I found some 10-12 sec on NoS, but of course they did a lot more than just camber adjustment (corner balancing, adjustment of anti roll bars, aerodynamics and sharper LSD clutches)

     

    sharper lsd clutches..did you change lsd with manthey's one or  what else?thanks

     

    --
    Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto









    --
    Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

     

     

    Now we're talking!

     


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    eclou:
    and about -0.8 or -0.9 is all you can get from a stock ride height car. On my track 944 turbo I run closer to -3.5 front and -2.8 rear

    Thanks for clarifying, eclou Smiley -0.8 or -0.9 indeed is the same you can do on a stock Boxster also Smiley
    The numbers for your 944 turbo sound more like suitable for some track fun Smiley

    @ andrea: yes, I swapped the stock LSD for the LSD clutches from Manthey (70% lock instead of 30% Smiley) It pays for itself, as the tire wear on the rear axle (right wheel vs. left wheel) is much more even now than before not to speak about the bigger driving fun Smiley


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    Porsche-Jeck:
    eclou:
    and about -0.8 or -0.9 is all you can get from a stock ride height car. On my track 944 turbo I run closer to -3.5 front and -2.8 rear

    Thanks for clarifying, eclou Smiley -0.8 or -0.9 indeed is the same you can do on a stock Boxster also Smiley
    The numbers for your 944 turbo sound more like suitable for some track fun Smiley

    @ andrea: yes, I swapped the stock LSD for the LSD clutches from Manthey (70% lock instead of 30% Smiley) It pays for itself, as the tire wear on the rear axle (right wheel vs. left wheel) is much more even now than before not to speak about the bigger driving fun Smiley

    perfect Smiley


    --
    Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    More detective work for fun: If pic posted by Andrea is indeed that of the actual tested car, you could "roughly" tell the car is not lowered much and its camber not aggressive at all. For comparison I enclosed pic of my car, which is lowered about 2 cm and has front camber of -1.2 degree. (Look at the angle of the front wheel of the Auto Motor & Sport tested car and see how it's straight up and down compared to the rear wheel.)

    If anyone has pictures from the Sport Auto test session, we could make similar "rough" analysis. Pictures when the front wheel is not turning is most helpful.

    08AE4393-1 PS2 Main 1200 Crop copy NEG camber.jpg


    porsche911turbor900x600.jpg


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    cannga:

    turbolite:

    So dont get me wrong, I love the 997.2 tt but - as Ferdie mentioned above and as I wrote in my letter published on sportauto after the 997tt test - Porsche has made a lousy job performance wise with the 997tt as a successor to the 996tt.  

     

    Please don't get me wrong, 996 Turbo is a great car and I am not here to be critical of your fantastic car (never mean to), but there have been numerous threads about whether to save money and buy 996 TT versus 997 TT. The responses by dual owners point to a huge difference in the 2 cars when other objective and subjective factors besides Nring time are taken into consideration and an overwhelming recommendation for 997 TT even at a much higher cost (I have no personal experience; just search rennlist and 6speedonline, and I think RC here might have commented on it also.). The only point about this is that if you judge a daily driver purely by Nring time (which I know 996 and 997 are within a few seconds of each other), you have missed the big picture.

    If Sportauto had seen my post they would not have published your letter. Just kidding. Smiley


    --

    Regards,
    Can

     

    Can,

    nobody who is right in his mind or older than 14 would judge a street car merely by its tracktimes. I also agree that the 997 is a better car than the 996 overall as it has a broader envelope (eg it's more confortable thanks to electronic suspension). The point I was making was that in the dynamics aspect of this car (ie on track) not enough had been done in the 997.1 version. Porsche had gotten lazy as they car sell anyway, so they did not give the most as I would expect (good example is the fact that they still offered a five gear automatic when even a golf has a DSG!) . This 'deficiency' has been corrected in today's 997.2 tt version, which will indeed make it an excellent (albeit very expensive) car. 

    In this picture I see the role of the GTR as a big wakeup call for PAG - that indeed worked very well IMO! The result for the car enthusiasts like us is a good one in any case: we now have two interesting options to choose from with different price points and characteristics - everybody to his taste...  Smiley


    --
    turbolite

    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    And by the way Can, congrats on your tt, it looks great in red with the mods you performed on it.  Smiley

     I sold my 996 tt some years ago and still miss it. So let's see what I'll do next...

    turbolite

     


    --
    turbolite

    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    acrobat:

    Latest issue of AMS - R8 V10 R-tronic vs. GT-R and Turbo PDK

    Hockenheimring:

    1. 1.11,5 min - Turbo PDK (on Potenzas)
    2. 1.12,0 min - GT-R
    3. 1.12,3 min - R8 V10

     

    which year is the gtr ? 2009 or 2010 ?


    --

    http://i28.tinypic.com/166k5zo.png


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    BiTurbo:

    which year is the gtr ? 2009 or 2010 ?

    Is there any difference? All I know it's a GT-R Black Edition made in 2009...SmileySmiley


    Re: 997.2 Turbo in AMS and Sport Auto

    They say in the US there were some minor changes done to 2010 models, so I was wondering if this was the case too in Europe


    --

    http://i28.tinypic.com/166k5zo.png


     
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