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    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Bobr, I saw the new Cayenne S at a Porsche event last night. Exterior was Biscayne blue and interior was black/Luxor. Under the interior event lighting, Biscayne is darker than in configurator pics.  Rear of the car is much cleaner than the current generation, and the light stripe works well. The interior of course has the large touchscreen and some other appointments that make the cabin seem lighter and more modern. The front grills don’t bother me. But overall, unless you see the car from the rear, it would be hard for anyone to tell the difference between the new and the old generation. 


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    JR-550:

    Last week I took delivery of my Cayenne S. I decided for the S version and not the Turbo mainly for expected very high depreciation and high Belgium taxes. My first drive was a wintersport vacation to Austria so a good long drive to really try the car. Everything you read in the review is correct it is a great car, drives almost like a sports car. I was pleasantly surprised by the engine sound, very nice. On the way back after 1000 km I could test the power of the car and this really good. The power is almost like the Cayenne II turbo. The fuel consumption seems to be very low. I need to wait a bit until the engine is completely worn in. At 165 km/hr de engine runs only at 2200 RPM amazing. I was a bit afraid on the size of the car but in practice the car feels smaller. The four wheel steering in combination with the surround camera system makes this car extremely easy to handle. I read a lot the discussions on the high price etc of the Cayenne. But if you see the perfect finish and quality of material used this is the best car on the market.

     

    IMG_0178.jpg
    IMG_0184.jpg

    I like a lot your new Cayenne. In Spain almost all are black or  white, I hate them. I like to see different colors. Congratulations & enjoy.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    SciFrog:

    Porsche is shooting the sleeves in the foot with their prices. Cayenne TT for 40% more than a Macan TT or a supercharged RRS? No thank you.

    Panamera TT for 50% more than a E63 AMG S? Again, no thank you. The Porsches are good but not THAT good as the competition is catching up fast and all cars are getting sooo good than the other brands are crossing the “good enough” threshold.

    Worse is that today the Panamera and Cayenne look really boring, and that’s where Lambo and such will win the high $$ SUV market. Saw a Bentayga on the streets again and even with a challenging design, it has a street presence that the Porsches dont have anymore. The Urus, AM, RR, and Ferrari SUV will kill that high end market for Porsche. It has for me, I don’t see why it wouldn’t for others...

    you mean it is not OK for Porsche's SUV to cost 50% more than its competitors, but OK for Lambo, Ferrari and Bentley SUV to cost 100% more than Porsche?Smiley

    not everyone wants flashy looking SUV.  I find the new Cayenne to be quite pleasing to my eyes. 


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Everyone will have different sensibilities and different regions in the world will have different social aspects and pressures.

    But in the end it is all about exclusivity and personal value. It is a human trait that was is rarer costs more, that’s pretty much the only reason why any luxury item exists. No one needs a watch that costs more than $10. Heck these days no one needs a watch at all. No one needs fancy jewelry. Why are engagement ring usually diamonds and gold and not citrine and silver?

    In many US metros, Porsches SUVs are everywhere. You can buy a 3 years old base Cayenne for $35k or lease a new one for the same as an Escalade. My point that the current crop of Cayenne just doesn’t look the part, and that the competition is catching up in terms of usable performance. To me it is not OK for Porsche to charge 50% over a Mercedes or such. You could ask why I bought the Macan turbo then. Well at least the Macan looked different, is lighter than the competition, has PDK, is fun to drive and had a much better interior than anytthing else in the crossover segment a few years back. The Cayenne competes in a different much tougher segment and simply just costs too much in the absolute. Just look at resale values of high end Cayennes. They are abysmal. I lost 90k in 5 years on my last Cayenne TTS, my friend lost the same in 4 years. So even the used market is telling you that Porsche charges too much. High luxury brands can charge whatever they can get away worth. When was the last time you saw a Bentayga on the streets?

    At the end of the day, money talks. Just look in this board here, after 10 years of Cayenne I refused to buy another one at the current prices. RC didn’t buy another one either. Look how many people here have RRS instead of Cayennes. And look who has newer CTTS here or high end Panameras? Only ones for who money is no object. Maybe there are enough of them in the world for Porsche to thrive, but they surely price many people out.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    My Cayenne Turbo S cost just about doubled my Range Rover SVR.

    It is a much better car no matter the standard, nothing the SVR wins except in price. But is the Cayenne 2x better? No.

    If Land Rover dump some extra money into the SVR and make it better and more luxurious, say 50k more, then the SVR will win the battle. 

    Every time I open the door of my Cayenne, it present itself as a luxury car, all the nice leather, stitching, carbon trim, etc. (Well I did paid for all of those by checking every single option box). 

    On the other hand, every time I open the door to the SVR, I can't help but feel like it's a fucking cheap ass car and I paid WHAT for it? The leather feels cheap. The aluminum felt cheap. Infotainment system felt cheap. Fit and finish felt cheap.   (Almost like American car cheap, it tried really hard to look expensive but the facade is not working). Reliability is non-existent (I have both cars together for roughly the same time, the SVR is like 1 month older, but the SVR spent way more time at the dealership fixing stuff) The Cayenne was also at the dealership a lot too but it was because I ran out of parking. 

    There SVR at least wins one category on showing itself to be expensive, it projects the Land Rover badge on the floor from the door, something's missing in the Cayenne. 

    BUT at the end of the day, Land Rover still has that cachet for the uninformed, my wife don't know cars but she really likes her Land Rover, but so does the Kardashians. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    SciFrog:

    When was the last time you saw a Bentayga on the streets?

    in my neighbourhood, close to daily.Smiley

    I got your points, thanks for your reply.kiss

    Like Whoopsy said, his Cayenne Turbo S is not 2X better than his Range Rover.

    My point is similar to his, that any Lambo, Ferrari and Bentley SUV will not be 2X better than a Cayenne S or Turbo.

    My neighbourhood is not the same as most people here.  Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren sport cars, Bentley coupes and SUVs can be seen on a daily basis, driven by Asian kids half my age.  These cars really does not mean much to me other than a big show off.

     Give me a manual Porsche any day and I'll be happy.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    I expect the Urus to be only 20% more than the Cayenne TTS... That’s value...


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    If my memory serves me right, my Lambo salesman once told me a nicely config Urus will be around 280-300k Canadian, that's 25% over my fully loaded Cayenne Turbo S, which means it will be almost 50% more than a 'normal' Cayenne Turbo S. 

    The Urus will be priced below the Bentayga, above the Cayenne.

    I just don't see how the Urus will be a great value when it is still a Cayenne/Toureag/Q7/Bentayga underneath. The best value in that group should be the top range Audi Q7.

    But personally, with the depute of the Bentayga and the Urus, my fully loaded Cayenne Turbo S became the value leader as it is still way cheaper than the top 2 versions 

     


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    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    If you are looking for a stealth top performer, of course the CTTS is the best value vs the others, but once you factor full depreciation, it is not quite clear.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    SciFrog:

    If you are looking for a stealth top performer, of course the CTTS is the best value vs the others, but once you factor full depreciation, it is not quite clear.

     

    The only SUV that won't drop like s stone in value is the G wagon. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Hopefully, can’t wait to scoop a Urus for $150k to replace the Macan then later a Ferrari SUV for the same price to replace the Urus.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    just assisted to the cayenne presentation here while a friend assisted to the Urus presentation the same day. we shared pictures...engine bay is a copy paste. they don't even bother to change the shape or even the parts... copy-paste. ctrl C ctrl V enlightened

    what a shame angry


    --

     

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

     

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    the-missile:

    just assisted to the cayenne presentation here while a friend assisted to the Urus presentation the same day. we shared pictures...engine bay is a copy paste. they don't even bother to change the shape or even the parts... copy-paste. ctrl C ctrl V enlightened

    what a shame angry


    --

     

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

     

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014

    that means Urus is a CTTS with a Lambo body kit on outside and Q7 interior.  The Lambo badge itself makes up the big price different.

    I can just buy a Lambo badge and stick on my old Cayenne to increase its value Smiley


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    The Cayenne has 650hp? That’s news to me. Porsche charges $15k for the Cayenne to go up 30hp, you do the math... Plus the looks...


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    9FBFF365-D3DB-4AF9-97FC-5A8DCC3D9BFC.png
    A1F87AD8-E7DB-4883-8E03-DCDC3617C3D1.pngOutch smiley, even the shape of the borders. The right section... oh my angry


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Guys, you cannot really compare the Urus to the Cayenne Turbo, so many differences, not only in tech but also interior, power, sound... Of course they are based on the same platform, VW Group and all but let's not be absurd here: Who the heck starts to compare engine bays? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    It is supposed to be 2 different cars and they are advertised as such, but, how can you just not even bother to have specific parts on the car? everything is shared as possible. it is very disappointing for my point of view as it dilutes a special brand like Lambo. yes

    VW and PAG are very close since the beginning but Lambo... come on.enlightened

    this is coming from a guy who actually find the Urus to be very close to perfection for its segment.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    It would be strange if the same company did not share as many parts as possible. What exactly is the expectation?


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    to me, VW, Audi and Lambo are not the same Company at all. Everyone has its history and heritage and starting to mixing them the way they are doing it now is very dangerous for the future. enlightened

    Thanks to the diesel gate...without it, not sure, such very strange strategy would have been put in place.

    Who wants to pay a Lambo with identical VW spare parts including shape, material and color? yes


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    the-missile:

    to me, VW, Audi and Lambo are not the same Company at all. Everyone has its history and heritage and starting to mixing them the way they are doing it now is very dangerous for the future. enlightened

     

    I fully understand what you are saying , but it has happened already with the R8 and the Huracan . Loads of parts are the same . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Even Aston Martin which prouded themselves in doing everything on their own and unique is now having MB parts...


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    They're sharing parts more and more (savings in costs and r+d) but their cars are becoming more and more expensive.

    There is something crooked in the automotive industry. In the long run isn't sustainable that the client, generally speaking, loses +70% of the value of his purchase after 5 years.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    RC:

    Guys, you cannot really compare the Urus to the Cayenne Turbo, so many differences, not only in tech but also interior, power, sound... Of course they are based on the same platform, VW Group and all but let's not be absurd here: Who the heck starts to compare engine bays? Smiley

     

    We JUST did Smiley

    No, the Urus and the Cayenne actually shared a lot more than you think.

    Same platform, the engine is the same corporate 4.0L TT V8, just in different state of tune.

    Most of the electronics inside are also corporate stuff, Audi/VW part numbers.

    The 'make up', like body skin and interior trim is different for sure, but what the eyes cannot see are shared. That's why the engine cover is also basically the same one.

    The suspension tuning will be different for sure, but I actually wouldn't be surprised if Porsche actually had a hand in helping Lambo tune it.


    --

     

     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Sounds like a great combo, German engineering, Italian heart...

    More seriously if they took the Cayenne TTS and souped it up, that wouldn’t be a bad thing at all. They just made it fun and exotic...


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    SciFrog:

    Sounds like a great combo, German engineering, Italian heart...

    More seriously if they took the Cayenne TTS and souped it up, that wouldn’t be a bad thing at all. They just made it fun and exotic...

    Exactly. It is not like they are taking parts from a Tiguan. 


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    the-missile:

    It is supposed to be 2 different cars and they are advertised as such, but, how can you just not even bother to have specific parts on the car? everything is shared as possible. it is very disappointing for my point of view as it dilutes a special brand like Lambo. yes

    VW and PAG are very close since the beginning but Lambo... come on.enlightened

    this is coming from a guy who actually find the Urus to be very close to perfection for its segment.

    Open the engine bay of a new R8 and a Huracan...99% identical (OK, the Huracan has the Lamborghini logo, the Audi the Audi rings). They didn't even try to make it look different.

    Put both cars on a service lift and take a look. Almost identical.

    Just an example.

    Many confuse VW Group for VW but this is not the case. VW Group is VW, Audi, Porsche, Seat, Bentley, Bugatti and Lamborghini. They share of course many parts (synergy) and platforms because this saves money. 

    Lamborghini is owned by Audi and Audi is owned by VW Group.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    I don't get this this denigration of shared platforms. It has to be a net positive for we consumers, particularly with electronics / media systems and the like. All the brands within the VW umbrella have clearly distinct characteristics in terms of design language and drive and handling. Are the individual price points justified  - well that's an individual consumer's decision and one might also argue from the manufacturer's point of view the payback for decades of investment in brand development. Sure as hell better value than a £100K Tesla milk float SmileySmiley.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    you can use the same platform, no issue for this.cool

    but what is the meaning of using same spare parts, same engine, same 99% of the car and have 3x base price difference? either a touareg lost money on any sell (don't dream about that) or an URUS has a margin which is insulting...

    there is a reason why those super luxury SUV value fall like rock...I find the approach of such strategy a bit nasty.

    would be interesting to check the spare parts price for identical part and see if there are any difference. that would be even more exagerated.indecision

    I like the cars they make and I own them but I don't feel confortable with that.

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    the-missile:

    you can use the same platform, no issue for this.cool

    but what is the meaning of using same spare parts, same engine, same 99% of the car and have 3x base price difference? either a touareg lost money on any sell (don't dream about that) or an URUS has a margin which is insulting...

    there is a reason why those super luxury SUV value fall like rock...I find the approach of such strategy a bit nasty.

    would be interesting to check the spare parts price for identical part and see if there are any difference. that would be even more exagerated.indecision

    I like the cars they make and I own them but I don't feel confortable with that.

     

    Let's make a comparison with the watch world: Is a TAG Heuer watch for 10k really that much worse than a Richard Mille watch for 150k? I am talking about build quality, materials, movement and such. The answer is simple: It isn't. You pay for image, maybe some specific and highly recognizable design language and thats basically it. 

    There are of course some performance differences (you can't get an Audi Q7 with a 600+ hp engine, not yet) but in the end, the Urus, the Cayenne, the Q7, the Bentayga...same stuff. Basically.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    I get your point, RC. But at least TAG and RM are not under the same group and do not share any single spare part in common. I don't mind paying more or less as they are 2 different manufacturers with their pros and cons.

    the issue I have with VW group is they give you the feeling that you get something special while less appealing brand get exact same stuff...very similar to  the ECU cheating mode for diesel fiasco.

    same feeling to me.yes I still want an URUS though


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


     
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