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    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    artur777:

    Different tires - what difference in acc times can lead to? could you point out?

    The Hockenheim lap times would be the most variable on the list above with different tires...


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    You see which difference it is in braking with the cold Cups and Trofeos compared to them being warm. Once warm they should provide an advantage in all disciplines. Pretty pointless test IMHO.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    bluelines:

    Why do they bother making comparison tests when using such different tires? Cups and Trofeos vs normal sport tire heart

    At a first glance the Turbo looks like a looser, but when adding the tire-factor it looks more like the winner.

     

    That is true - all figures make him the winner of this test. Except for 0-200 Smiley How could Porsche screw this up so badly? Not any faster than 991.1 turbo S Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Yes seems a little disappointing not to be better than the 991.1 TTS. I was considering upgrading but now feel like I should wait for the 992 TTS....my GT3 order will hold be over in the meantime indecision


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Dear KresoF1 and RC, pls commment


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    artur777, forgive me for asking, but how come you are so obsessed with the 991 turbo times? I remember your questions about the 0-300 km/h times even a year before they were launched...

    Do you own a dragstrip? broken heart


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Yes)))) i am biased, pso i need to clarify


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    What wrong with braking distance on Huracan and R8 while cold??!! I mean 39mts is scary long!


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    J.Seven:

    What wrong with braking distance on Huracan and R8 while cold??!! I mean 39mts is scary long!

    Tire compound.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    bluelines:

    Why do they bother making comparison tests when using such different tires? Cups and Trofeos vs normal sport tire heart

    At a first glance the Turbo looks like a looser, but when adding the tire-factor it looks more like the winner.

     

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    artur777:

    Dear KresoF1 and RC, pls commment

    1. 0-100 kph and 0-200 kph times are better (compare it to the Supertest of the 991.1 Turbo) and I never expected better times than that from the current engine.

    2. 0-300 kph time is disappointing because I've been told that they had raised boost pressure in the higher speed range to specifically improve performance in that range. Improved thermodynamics...apparently for nothing. Smiley

    3. The 991.2 Turbo S is still a very impressive performer and for real life driving, I think that people do not have to worry about performance issues. There is however a reason why the Huracan and R8 have 30 hp more than the Turbo S, this was not only a marketing decision though (the 991.2 Turbo S engine is at it's power peak, no matter what tuners promise...).

    The next generation Turbo S will catch up to the competition (this is actually pretty sure...new tech involved...) and so far, let's face it: The Turbo S has no real competitor when it comes to daily driver capabilities. One reason the 991.2 Turbo/S seems to sell amazingly well in Germany (and other parts of the world) right now. According to my sources, the 991.2 Turbo/S is basically sold out in Germany for this year.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    artur777:

    Dear KresoF1 and RC, pls commment

     

    3. The 991.2 Turbo S is still a very impressive performer and for real life driving, I think that people do not have to worry about performance issues. There is however a reason why the Huracan and R8 have 30 hp more than the Turbo S, this was not only a marketing decision though (the 991.2 Turbo S engine is at it's power peak, no matter what tuners promise...).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    So you think there´s no safety net on this engine after 580Hp ? I doubt, Porsche and all other brands always leave an extra power safe margin due to obvious reasons, Cars running in Dubai and Norway still have to be reliable no matter the use you gave to it if you know what I mean.


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    J.Seven:
    RC:
    artur777:

    Dear KresoF1 and RC, pls commment

     

    3. The 991.2 Turbo S is still a very impressive performer and for real life driving, I think that people do not have to worry about performance issues. There is however a reason why the Huracan and R8 have 30 hp more than the Turbo S, this was not only a marketing decision though (the 991.2 Turbo S engine is at it's power peak, no matter what tuners promise...).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    So you think there´s no safety net on this engine after 580Hp ? I doubt, Porsche and all other brands always leave an extra power safe margin due to obvious reasons, Cars running in Dubai and Norway still have to be reliable no matter the use you gave to it if you know what I mean.

    The 991.2 Turbo S with 580 hp is perfectly reliable...as it is.

    This is why this car has 580 hp "only" and not 600 hp or slightly more.

    In the past, I always heard that the current engine is "good" for 600 hp at max. With the 580 hp, Porsche is on the safe side. I wouldn't tune the engine though, there is no safety net available for tuning, this is pretty obvious.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
     

    In the past, I always heard that the current engine is "good" for 600 hp at max. With the 580 hp, Porsche is on the safe side. I wouldn't tune the engine though, there is no safety net available for tuning, this is pretty obvious.

    Then, how the next GT2 RS will improve in power? Or it will use next gen engine?


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Boyko23:
    RC:
     

    In the past, I always heard that the current engine is "good" for 600 hp at max. With the 580 hp, Porsche is on the safe side. I wouldn't tune the engine though, there is no safety net available for tuning, this is pretty obvious.

    Then, how the next GT2 RS will improve in power? Or it will use next gen engine?

    The GT2 RS will already use next gen tech and will be based on a different engine base.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Boyko23:
    RC:
     

    In the past, I always heard that the current engine is "good" for 600 hp at max. With the 580 hp, Porsche is on the safe side. I wouldn't tune the engine though, there is no safety net available for tuning, this is pretty obvious.

    Then, how the next GT2 RS will improve in power? Or it will use next gen engine?

    If it does, then there will also have been improvements made to the component parts which limited the safe power output of the previous generation.
    Engine developers generally know at the signing-off of any production engine which of its features they would need to improve on next time in order to produce a durable successor with higher performance. 


    --

     

    fritz

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    J.Seven:
    RC:
    artur777:

    Dear KresoF1 and RC, pls commment

     

    3. The 991.2 Turbo S is still a very impressive performer and for real life driving, I think that people do not have to worry about performance issues. There is however a reason why the Huracan and R8 have 30 hp more than the Turbo S, this was not only a marketing decision though (the 991.2 Turbo S engine is at it's power peak, no matter what tuners promise...).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    So you think there´s no safety net on this engine after 580Hp ? I doubt, Porsche and all other brands always leave an extra power safe margin due to obvious reasons, Cars running in Dubai and Norway still have to be reliable no matter the use you gave to it if you know what I mean.

    The 991.2 Turbo S with 580 hp is perfectly reliable...as it is.

    This is why this car has 580 hp "only" and not 600 hp or slightly more.

    In the past, I always heard that the current engine is "good" for 600 hp at max. With the 580 hp, Porsche is on the safe side. I wouldn't tune the engine though, there is no safety net available for tuning, this is pretty obvious.

    Do you have more details? It would be interesting to know what is the limiting part of the engine design.

    the GT2RS with its Mezger engine was capable of 620HP. I think the current PDK is at its limits as well, am I right?


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    The most limiting part was apparently fuel pressure and the (size of the) injection valves. 

    The engine in the GT2 RS was "capable" of way over 620 hp...just saying. Smiley

    This doesn't say anything about the quality of the engines though. The modern Porsche engines are quite reliable and capable, if used within the factory (development) specs.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Thanks! Hmm I'm sure they knew this from the beginning. Well after all it's still the first gen. DFI turbo engine from scratch based on the 997.2 Turbo engine.


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
     

    In the past, I always heard that the current engine is "good" for 600 hp at max. With the 580 hp, Porsche is on the safe side. I wouldn't tune the engine though, there is no safety net available for tuning, this is pretty obvious.

    One source of the 600hp limit was RS Tuning who destroyed an early A91 997 turbo engine at this power level whilst endurance testing on teh engine dyno.

    A few credible tuners offer substantial power upgrades, Techart being one and then there is the Ruf one below (the torque figure being particularly large - Ruf would never tune a standard rod Mezger with this level of torque !) using bigger VTGs so surely quite credible, I wonder what the warranty terms are ?

     


    --

     

     

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Maybe you should ask RUF? 

    Don't forget that a 991.2 Turbo S engine needs to deliver the 580 hp under basically all driving conditions. No matter if it is very hot or cold, no matter if the car is used in the mountains or below sea level. The power delivery is quite constant, this is the beauty of it. With 670 hp, I rather suspect that the ECU adapts to certain conditions, meaning that you won't probably have 670 hp at 40°C outside temperature or at 3000 meters.

    Never compare a car manufacturer to a tuner, they have different quality and reliability standards.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    The most limiting part was apparently fuel pressure and the (size of the) injection valves. 

    Easy fix: Go for an 8-cylinder engine. Instantly gives you a 33% buffer in fuel injector flow capacity without increasing fuel line pressure.  
    --

     

    fritz

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Would be nice, but there's not enough space in a 911 body.


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    fritz:
    RC:

    The most limiting part was apparently fuel pressure and the (size of the) injection valves. 

    Easy fix: Go for an 8-cylinder engine. Instantly gives you a 33% buffer in fuel injector flow capacity without increasing fuel line pressure.  Smiley

    Smiley Good one... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

     

    Never compare a car manufacturer to a tuner, they have different quality and reliability standards.

     

     

    That's why used Ruf and Techart as examplesSmiley


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    TB993tt:
    RC:

     

    Never compare a car manufacturer to a tuner, they have different quality and reliability standards.

     

     

    That's why used Ruf and Techart as examplesSmiley

    I know Alois Ruf personally and I am pretty sure that he uses the highest standards for his products but Techart? I don't know. Had stabilizers from them on a 996 Turbo and they "bent" after only a couple of days of spirited driving. They may have improved but I wouldn't buy any products from them anymore.

    Actually, my experience with tuners isn't the best, even if I enjoyed their products a lot. RS Tuning was amazing, technically speaking but Reinhold's brother wasn't exactly a pleasure to deal with, if you get my point. 

    RUF's tuning was great but when the ECU shuts off at 140 kph on the Autobahn because of a cold solder joint (had the kids in the car, was a pretty scary situation, thanks god I wasn't fast and I was able to roll out the car inside an Autobahn exit), you kind of change your view...

    I could continue but these things are a part of the past, so no sense to talk about them anymore...

    One thing is for sure: My GT500 is the last car I tuned. Too much hassle, too many issues with making it street legal (had to go through various obstacles), too many possible issues (thanks god I know the right guy...) and resale value tanks as well. No thanks.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    TB993tt:
    RC:

     

    Never compare a car manufacturer to a tuner, they have different quality and reliability standards.

     

     

    That's why used Ruf and Techart as examplesSmiley

    I know Alois Ruf personally and I am pretty sure that he uses the highest standards for his products but Techart? I don't know. Had stabilizers from them on a 996 Turbo and they "bent" after only a couple of days of spirited driving. They may have improved but I wouldn't buy any products from them anymore.

    Actually, my experience with tuners isn't the best, even if I enjoyed their products a lot. RS Tuning was amazing, technically speaking but Reinhold's brother wasn't exactly a pleasure to deal with, if you get my point. 

    RUF's tuning was great but when the ECU shuts off at 140 kph on the Autobahn because of a cold solder joint (had the kids in the car, was a pretty scary situation, thanks god I wasn't fast and I was able to roll out the car inside an Autobahn exit), you kind of change your view...

    I could continue but these things are a part of the past, so no sense to talk about them anymore...

    One thing is for sure: My GT500 is the last car I tuned. Too much hassle, too many issues with making it street legal (had to go through various obstacles), too many possible issues (thanks god I know the right guy...) and resale value tanks as well. No thanks.

    Your's is one view of tuning and from what you describe you do not have the right sort of character for it but for those who do it can offer an amazing experience, all the things you like about Porsche but multiplied many times, Until the around 2011 Porsches have always been great to tune due to the Motorsport connections with tried and race tested parts providing incredible reliability, this newer stuff I have no idea but Ruf have always been one of the best for Porsche.

    You like new stuff, when I have read over the years I have felt a bit sorry for you with your dallience with a Panamera, once saying it was like a big 911 Smiley and then the 991 turbo S, an amazing creation but so obviously lacking in soul. Tuned cars can be made to have incredible soul, emotion and massive performance which production cars simply can't have, it is telling how many wealthy people have woken up to the Singer which is really a fully "tuned" 911, 

     

     


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    TB993tt:
    You like new stuff, when I have read over the years I have felt a bit sorry for you with your dallience with a Panamera, once saying it was like a big 911 Smiley and then the 991 turbo S, an amazing creation but so obviously lacking in soul. Tuned cars can be made to have incredible soul, emotion and massive performance which production cars simply can't have, it is telling how many wealthy people have woken up to the Singer which is really a fully "tuned" 911, 

    The Panamera Turbo S was an amazing experience and I am glad I had it. Honestly. Porsche did magic with this car and yes, it is like a big 911, believe it or not. This just wasn't the right car for me, I felt old in it, it just didn't "fit" me, the Panamera wasn't me, it is difficult to explain. The 991 Turbo S was a mistake, I was just dumb. I had the chance to be (somewhat) involved in development and got too excited about this car. Amazing car, just not for me. I should have waited for the GT3 or GT3 RS. Actually, I had planned to get a GT3 but... Smiley Smiley

    The biggest mistakes were the C63 AMG Coupe and the Boxster S though. The lack of traction in the C63 was really annoying, especially since this was my daily driver and not a weekend toy. The Boxster S was a car to make my wife happy but I ended up driving it most of the time, which was annoying (not really a fan of the Boxster, sorry).

    So yes, I regret the C63, the Boxster S and the Turbo S but not the Panamera, believe it or not. If I wouldn't have owned  a Panamera, I would have regretted not getting one. It was an interesting experience but I will never get a sedan again, this just isn't my type of car. Sports car, coupe or SUV...I know that now for sure. Smiley

    Tuning made my GT500 more emotional indeed but also scarier. Smiley This is actually the first car I have a lot of respect of, the same respect I had towards the CGT I test-drove. However, there are times where the GT500 scares me good, so I'm not always happy with it. I try to drive it mostly on warm(er) days and when it is completely dry but I am not surprised that so many GT500 owners crashed their cars. This is not a toy, this thing is a monster. Smiley Still...happy I got it because I always dreamt of such a car. Now I'm cured but the weird thing is: I would miss it if I wouldn't own one anymore, so I'm trying to keep it.  Weird, isn't it?! Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    Tuning made my GT500 more emotional indeed but also scarier. Smiley This is actually the first car I have a lot of respect of, the same respect I had towards the CGT I test-drove. However, there are times where the GT500 scares me good, so I'm not always happy with it. I try to drive it mostly on warm(er) days and when it is completely dry but I am not surprised that so many GT500 owners crashed their cars. This is not a toy, this thing is a monster. Smiley Still...happy I got it because I always dreamt of such a car. Now I'm cured but the weird thing is: I would miss it if I wouldn't own one anymore, so I'm trying to keep it.  Weird, isn't it?! Smiley

    Very interesting, maybe your character is only adverse to some of the more trying aspects of owning a tuned car because what you describe fits well with the lure of a tuned monster, I have daily driven 911 monsters, first the 993 turbo for 12 years and now the 7GT2 for 7 and I get a rush of excitement every morning I wake up knowing I will be driving the beast. I sort of trust 911s even when very powerful, I'm not sure I would be happy with that GT500 it sounds a lot to handle Smiley


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    The GT500 is a lot to handle, especially with 1056 Nm torque (778 lb.-ft., the 991.2 Turbo S has 553 lb.ft., just for comparison and it has AWD), I agree.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


     
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