Crown

Board: Lotus Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17714223


    --



    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    Hi Gauss,

    Is there any truth to Danny Bahar handing in his resingnation or being fired?

     

    Moser


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    IMO if an investment company of any description buys Lotus, it will be no good. Investment managers and venture capitalists, unrelated to automobile manufacturing, have proven to be of no use to car companies. There have been many examples of that mismarriage.

    What Lotus needs is a major manufacturer with up-to-date technology and manufacturing methods, modern engines and transmissions to complement Lotuses chassis and lightweight construction skills. Lotus should only hope that VW are still interested in such a buy-out or alternatively the Prime minister (since according to the above article is interested in the matter) convince Mr. Tata to buy Lotus and incorporate it into his JLR Group of British brands.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    Moser:

    Hi Gauss,

    Is there any truth to Danny Bahar handing in his resingnation or being fired?

     

    Moser

    No, that was just false rumour (at least for now)

    Here's a statement from Lotus Cars, posted on their facebook site http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1146106&l=da3676510f&id=135849009792886:

    Never let the facts get in the way of a good story….

    Take a little look at what we found online. Don’t you think it’s funny? We do. We had a good old giggle. After all, we love a bit of self irony, just as well really. Although it’s funny, this one’s not accurate but then again, why let the facts get in the way of a good story? The inconvenient truth is – surprise, surprise – we have never said that there are no problems at Lotus.

    So whilst lots of people obviously feel the need to comment on Lotus’ current situation in the absence of proper facts or evidence, we can’t ignore these particular mistruths any longer even if we would like to, so we have decided to turn a negative into a positive and use this hilarious piece of ‘art’ to set the record straight regarding the status quo at Group Lotus and try to return a little stability to a fast changing situation.

    False rumour #1: Dany Bahar is no longer CEO of Group Lotus.

    Fact: Rubbish – Dany Bahar still is.

    False rumour #2: Dato’ Sri Syed is no longer Managing Director of Proton.

    Fact: Again rubbish. He still is.

    You can thank good old Tony Fernandes for these two. Don’t take everything he tweets too seriously – perhaps he’s still frustrated about owning Caterham instead of Lotus and the fact that he fights HRT and Marussia instead of Mercedes and Ferrari in F1.

    And whilst we’re on the subject of jokes – do you know the latest F1 joke? Mike Gascoyne, Caterham Group’s Chief Technical Officer, has gone missing. Why? He’s looking for the 30 to 40 points he predicted for the last F1 season. Funny.

    Speaking of F1: It seems that one special so called ‘independent’ source is at the root of the lion’s share of damaging rumours and misleading stories. The delightful Joe Saward which leads us nicely to….

    False rumour #3: Joe Saward is JUST an independent journalist.

    Fact: He is an active Director for the Caterham Group.

    And unlike some, we don’t want to get too personal, so we’ll leave it to you to judge how ‘independent’ his stories about Lotus are.

    False rumour #4: Group Lotus is no longer involved in F1.

    Fact: Lotus F1 Team and Group Lotus have reshaped their commercial relationship earlier this year. The new governance agreement signifies the continued commitment of Group Lotus to the team and the sport.

    Group Lotus’ branding and marketing rights and subsequent activities remain unaffected by the new agreement until at least 2017. Alongside continued branding and title partnership status, Group Lotus is also the exclusive master licensee for all Lotus F1 Team merchandise.

    The new agreement was reached following Group Lotus owners Proton providing team owners Genii with a £30m loan which is repayable within three years. In order to secure the loan Genii used 100% of the F1 team’s assets as collateral meaning that under the conditions of the loan agreement Proton have been given full title guarantee to all plant, machinery, show cars, computers, office and the Lotus F1 Team headquarters.

    In addition Proton retains the rights to purchase 10% of the F1 team. Another 10% share option will be activated if the team default on their loan obligations with Proton.

    Again we leave it to your judgement how ‘bad’ Lotus’ current situation in F1 is. And speaking of bad situations….

    False rumour #5: Group Lotus is going into administration.

    Fact: Rubbish. The takeover of our parent company Proton by DRB-HICOM couldn’t have come at a worse time, but up until that point Proton was (and still remains) fully committed to our five year business plan to create jobs and to expand the factory and business. With the takeover process the funding has been restricted and DRB-HICOM is taking time to understand what to do with the business. DRB-HICOM is currently in the middle of due diligence of Group Lotus and there have been and continue to be positive discussions between Group Lotus senior management and senior management at DRB-HICOM both here in Hethel and inMalaysia. At no point has DRB-HICOM indicated to Group Lotus that it intends to put the company into administration. The over-active rumour mill is seriously damaging our business reputation, image and credibility but it is what it is.

    The simple fact is, and we haven’t denied this – Lotus is going through a very difficult phase at the moment but we are showing true fighting spirit every day in trying to keep this vision alive. This is also a fact – no matter what people outside of Lotus may say or tweet or blog.


    --


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    thanks gauss


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    So... do I understand it right that Proton is in trouble and not so much Lotus? heart


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    Proton was a vanity project for the then Prime Minister of Malaysia, Dr Mahathir.

    Proton has only ever used other manufacturers' (mostly Mitsubishi) technology. It doesn't make much, if any, profit. Without Malaysia's import tariffs, Proton would be even more of a basket case than it is now. Name a single decent Proton car that has been made -- there are none. All of them are crap. I know, my father had 2. Both utter rubbish.

    Lotus managed to dazzle the twits at Proton to invest money Proton didn't really have into Bahar's fantasy of creating 5 new cars from scratch for a few hundred million £.

    All involved were deluded and/or taking illicit substances.

    We are now at the morning after the night before ...

    It will end in tears.


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    Oh dear,

    thanks for the explanation. That´s not what I expected. Coincidentally I just heard an interview with Tony Fernandez about his idea of acquiring Lotus and developing an somewhat affordable F1-derived sportscar with them. Obviously, he set out to do the same with Caterham now.

    Now I also understand that, if I remember correctly, quite some staff moved from Lotus to Caterham a while ago to start the development of a new sportscar model there.

    So what is the situation for Lotus now? Get sold to another manufacturer, returning to the single-model lineup or being able to continue the current development with money sourced somewhere else? On the one hand, the investment company might not look like the best option but Lotus (used to) offer great engineering resources that might be attractive to other manufacturers as well.


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    sfo = the Grinch    Smiley

     

    they did make some dam nice prototypes that I believe would have made them a serious competitor.


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    Ferdie:

    So what is the situation for Lotus now? Get sold to another manufacturer, returning to the single-model lineup or being able to continue the current development with money sourced somewhere else? On the one hand, the investment company might not look like the best option but Lotus (used to) offer great engineering resources that might be attractive to other manufacturers as well.

    Only VW can save Lotus. I cannot see any other serious manufacturer willing and able to take over Lotus.

    Combine VW's superb drivetrains with Lotus nimbleness and chassis engineering and make Lotus an affordable no nonsense sportscar company like it was in the 60 and early 70s. Bahar's vision of supercars and multiple models is sheer utopic fantasy IMO

    VW could benefit a lot from Lotus too, from its expertise in certain areas.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    sfo:

    Lotus managed to dazzle the twits at Proton to invest money Proton didn't really have into Bahar's fantasy of creating 5 new cars from scratch for a few hundred million £.

    All involved were deluded and/or taking illicit substances.

    We are now at the morning after the night before ...

    It will end in tears.

    +1 to all that.  
    It was very predictable that this train would hit the buffers sooner rather than later. If Lotus had concentrated on just two future models, one of them being a slightly more mature version of the Elise as its successor, it would have been a much more sustainable path. The over-ambitious plans revealed last year would have undermined the credibility of the management in the eyes of any potential suitors who understand the auto industry. 

    Being absorbed by VW would probably not be a good solution, because I suspect that the Lotus "philosophy" would very quickly get watered down and then lost for all time in that constellation. Hard to see any suitable "white knights" who could ride to Lotus' rescue at the moment. It's a shame.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    fritz:

    Being absorbed by VW would probably not be a good solution, because I suspect that the Lotus "philosophy" would very quickly get watered down and then lost for all time in that constellation. Hard to see any suitable "white knights" who could ride to Lotus' rescue at the moment. It's a shame.  Smiley

    If not VW (although IMO VW know where to draw the line between preserving tradition and integrating the acquired brands e.g. Lamborghini and Bentley) then only JLR could take over and preserve Lotus (their finances permitting).


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    reginos:
    fritz:

    Being absorbed by VW would probably not be a good solution, because I suspect that the Lotus "philosophy" would very quickly get watered down and then lost for all time in that constellation. Hard to see any suitable "white knights" who could ride to Lotus' rescue at the moment. It's a shame.  Smiley

    If not VW (although IMO VW know where to draw the line between preserving tradition and integrating the acquired brands e.g. Lamborghini and Bentley) then only JLR could take over and preserve Lotus (their finances permitting).

    Funnily enough, Jaguar Land-Rover did come to my mind as well, not just because of the "British" connection, but because JLR is currently on a roll with good export sales and probably flush with cash. Parent company Tata also appears to be doing well and is investing billions into its steel production interests in the UK.

    Aston Martin and Lotus might fit together well in terms of technology (both use aluminium platforms) but AM probably has enough financial difficulties of its own, and doesn't have the "critical mass" to be seen as a long-term solution. 

     


    --

    fritz


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    Lotus needs a sugar daddy .. not many of those around.


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    sfo:

    Lotus needs a sugar daddy .. not many of those around.

    If only it were that simple. Lotus' sugar daddy also needs to be able to bring some kind of background in the auto industry to the game. It can't be just a financier with deep pockets and no understanding of the business. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    a financier with no understanding of the business would never put money in unless they were reckless


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    sfo:

    a financier with no understanding of the business would never put money in unless they were reckless

    The history of the auto industry is littered with stories of people who invested in car companies only to find they were throwing their money into a bottomless pit, so it wouldn't be the first time that someone was reckless. Smiley 
    To stay close to (Lotus') home, just look at the British government's investment in de Lorean, aided and abetted by Colin Chapman. 
    --

    fritz


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    fritz:
    The history of the auto industry is littered with stories of people who invested in car companies only to find they were throwing their money into a bottomless pit, so it wouldn't be the first time that someone was reckless. Smiley

    To stay close to (Lotus') home, just look at the British government's investment in de Lorean, aided and abetted by Colin Chapman. 
    --

    fritz

    these were not financiers, they were rich kids or bureaucrats


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    sfo:
    fritz:
    The history of the auto industry is littered with stories of people who invested in car companies only to find they were throwing their money into a bottomless pit, so it wouldn't be the first time that someone was reckless. Smiley

    To stay close to (Lotus') home, just look at the British government's investment in de Lorean, aided and abetted by Colin Chapman. 
    --

    fritz

    these were not financiers, they were rich kids or bureaucrats

    Got you now. Smiley  I was using the term "financier" loosely to mean anyone providing finances for the venture, and not necessarily for a "professional" financier in the stricter sense who could be expected to do extensive "due diligence" before jumping in with both feet. There have been plenty of examples of presumably hard-nosed businessmen, not just rich kids or bureaucrats playing with other peoples' money, who have burned their fingers in this business.
    Names like Tucker and David Brown spring to mind. Elon Musk could be another at some time in the future, but he has got others (including bureaucrats) to risk money alongside his own in his automotive venture, thereby possibly diluting his risk. 

    You may know the old saying "The only way to make a small fortune building cars is to start with a big one".  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    Maybe Ford should buy Lotus. kiss

    Ford has the motors, gearboxes and other components that would mate well with a Lotus street car. It would also give Ford dealers something more to sell, hopefully thereby more Lotus sales via greater sales outlets and give Ford another angle in motorsports. Perhaps with Fords sales distribution and their cost scale for engines, gearboxes and components a Lotus might actually be........... profitable!

    Ford ownership of Lotus would be a substantially different business and engineering support proposition than their ownership of Volvo and Jaguar was.

    For this bit of brilliant advice I will send Ford HQ a bill.indecision

     


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    fritz:
    "The only way to make a small fortune building cars is to start with a big one".  Smiley

     so funny, and so true.

    bit like airlines!



    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    UK Premier urges Malaysian owners to keep Lotus cars in UK ‎:

    http://europe.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120418/ANE/304189879#ixzz1sbcNa2c4


    --


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    PRESS RELEASE For Immediate Release : DRB-HICOM has not decided to sell Lotus Group

    http://community.evo.co.uk/users/Harry-Metcalfe/blogs/index.cfm/2012/4/19/Harry-Metcalfe-Inside-Lotus-UPDATE

    KUALA LUMPUR, 21 April 2012 - Following numerous reports in the media on Lotus Group International Limited (Lotus Group), a wholly-owned subsidiary of PROTON Holdings Berhad (PROTON), DRB-HICOM Berhad (DRB-HICOM) as the new owner of PROTON would like to clarify some important matters.

    DRB-HICOM is currently undertaking an operations audit on Lotus Group, as part of its governance exercise. Contrary to reports that Lotus Group would be put under administration, DRB-HICOM is still supporting Lotus Group, both financially and management wise.

    DRB-HICOM has not decided to sell Lotus Group and do not know the source of the speculation about selling Lotus Group to a Chinese party i.e Youngman. As of today, DRB-HICOM has identified one of PROTON’s Senior Management personnel to take up a position in Lotus Group in an effort to strengthen its management.

    - End -

    --



    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    Car maker Lotus in talks on sale to China, MP reveals

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834710

    --


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    Lotus to restore full car production

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/262480/


    --


    Re: Firm 'looks to buy' Norfolk-based Group Lotus

    'We won't sell Lotus' says new owner

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/262768/


    --


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 5/18/22 6:36 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    690162 1306
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 1/27/23 7:12 PM
    Porker
    322669 1191
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 1/26/23 4:09 PM
    W8MM
    221563 1340
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 1/28/23 3:45 AM
    Spyderidol
    206217 465
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/6/22 12:37 AM
    WhoopsyM
    187604 580
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 1/20/23 10:57 PM
    Pilot
    133003 58
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 11/30/22 2:30 PM
    GnilM
    58413 68
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/1/22 10:14 PM
    SSO.
    524022 3954
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/25/22 1:02 AM
    CGX car nut
    483625 2663
    Porsche 992 GT3 1/3/23 6:48 PM
    Grant
    478689 3792
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 1/21/23 3:51 PM
    CGX car nut
    233973 1491
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 9/30/22 6:31 PM
    Grant
    232153 774
    AMG AMG GT R 3/13/22 8:52 PM
    spudgun
    202150 834
    Lambo Aventador and SV 5/20/22 5:24 PM
    Topspeed
    198252 710
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 1/28/23 5:47 PM
    WhoopsyM
    196749 2038
    Porsche GT4RS 12/30/22 1:28 AM
    JAMS
    192466 1194
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 4/19/22 10:08 PM
    Leawood911
    165089 1590
    Others Bugatti Chiron 8/30/22 4:31 PM
    Josef
    162143 525
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/12/22 5:09 PM
    watt
    158235 535
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 2/28/22 7:42 PM
    Topspeed
    144813 409
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 1/3/23 10:08 PM
    blueflame
    141927 509
    Lambo Urus (SUV) 6/7/22 1:20 PM
    Topspeed
    139613 593
    Others Corvette C8 7/18/22 12:40 PM
    WhoopsyM
    138677 443
    Porsche Dave and Gnil @ Nürburgring Nordschleife 7/4/22 10:42 PM
    DaveGordon
    137150 722
    Motor Sp. [2022] Formula 1 1/13/23 3:57 PM
    Leawood911
    129480 1572
    Others Toyota Yaris GR 4/13/22 8:33 PM
    Grant
    108476 640
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/21/22 8:37 AM
    RCA
    107325 335
    AMG Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 10/24/22 7:42 AM
    RCA
    105115 402
    Ferrari Wandered to the dark side 8/29/22 9:35 AM
    BiTurbo
    80311 418
    Ferrari Ferrari Roma 4/18/22 4:33 PM
    watt
    32632 438
    166 items found, displaying 1 to 30.