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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    My only question mark relating to the 991 is the new electrical steering system.

    Even Porsche engineers don't always get new things completely right first time. I'm sure there are going to be some discrepancies at the beginning at least until the system is perfectly honed.

    As regards the expected increased stability to be derived from the move on the engine further front, IMO this is very a very welcome feature. At high speeds, continuous curves and in strong winds the 997 is not as stable as some of its rivals. That might be exciting and playful for a short time but Porsche need to be able to sell the 911 model to some 20,000 people every year all over the world and not only to very expert drivers.

    I'm very happy myself with my 997.2 PDK and I have no incentive to rush for the new model.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Here is an interesting comparison between 997 and 991.  Makes the 997 look like a beetle (taller) in comparison.  http://www.ausmotive.com/2011/08/18/porsche-911-991-compared-to-997.html


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    After reading some critics here(honestly-totally negative posts) about new 991 and after excellent post from rossi I decided to offer some of my views.

    Critic No.1 Electrical steering wheel...

    Well, I am a bit sceptical here as well. But, Porsche is not known for crucial errors, so system should work fine I pressume.

    Critic No.2 Longer wheel base...

    No doubt from me here-it is a good thing. Nervousness that is a signature of 997 design some drivers interpet as surgical drive dynamics. 997.2 is the best 911(996,997 and 997.2) with 2350mm wheelbase. Just, Porsche couldnt do anything more in drive dynamics department with 2350mm wheelbase. They wanted more highspeed straight line stability and better stability in wide high speed corners. I guess that excellent narrow corners agility is remained intact.

    Critic No.3 Engine is not visible any more...

    Hmm... What actually can you see when you open 997.2 Turbo engine bay? A beautiful piece of metal? Or maybe some piece of plastic? Want  to look at your engine in garage? Buy 458 or R8.

    Critic No.4 Exterior look...

    What did people expect? Totally radical new design? RC wrote excellent post about new 991 design and its relationship to current 997.2 design.

    Critic No.5 Interior look...

    Most critics do not like interior inspired by Pana. Personally, I like new interior. Again, what critics expected-a spartan look  a la CGT?

     

    Porsche created some very wise design. Current 997/997.2 owners wont be in a hurry to get new 991 and this will be an excellent thing for 997 used market value stability. People who want 991 will order one since it is more advanced sportscar afer all. As RC wrote win/win scenario for both current owners of 997 models and future owners of 991 models.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I can't agree more with that Kreso.  Regarding the engine visibility, I don't understand the need to see the engine when it isn't much to look at in the first place...


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    BTW, aren't both the red and the silver cars Carrera S-es? In the interior shots, it can be seen that it is the red car, but it also shows "Carrera S" on the display.

    All in all, very excited about the new car, can't wait to see it in real life! I'm sure I'll be able to get used to the Gepetto look.


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    There are pics of 991 S in red-interior pics are from that car. But, 991 in Guards Red is 991-base model.

    Hint-maybe, just maybe Porsche will do that press introduction little bit earlier then planned(24th August) since pics leaked...


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     I personally think the 991 is a big difference from the 997, and in a good way! The difference is the slight increase in length and the slight decrease in height makes the side profile much more sleek and sporty!

    I love everything about it except the lettering on the back which is totally unnecessary and stupid, but I can live with it.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     

    I am very curious to see how they will connect the stoplights in a 991 C4S (the new red strip in the rear...)
    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    a928:

    Im a bit astonished that these points are not discussed here and no critiscism - or if anyone else has diffent ideas on the 911-  are accepted. 

    So far I always had a very positive impression of rennteam as it was neutral, had facts etc..but it seems unpleasant facts are not welcome..

    Look at other Porsche forums..there this things are discussed..

     There no point of discussion number yet, as there are no official release and , most importantly , there are no ' neutral' test yet . Once we will have independent journalist test the car, then we can really discuss numbers. Before, it is just a waist of energy Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:

    I can't agree more with that Kreso.  Regarding the engine visibility, I don't understand the need to see the engine when it isn't much to look at in the first place...


    Im always amazed when I read such comments..again: why have others done differently? R8, gallardo, 458, M5, dont know what else to list...

    I said already yesterday, Golf GTI engine (car for 30000) looks better than 991 now..a 911 as the sports car of the century  (OK..last century..but still)...didnt the 991 want to be THE REFERENCE in everything? Is  that the new reference - not seing the engine???

    I havent really seen one comment explaining that ..only always the same metaphers...yeah..you could see much anyway in a 997...so then dirch it completely.

    I bet you thhe next gallardo, 458 or whatever will still have a visible engine..


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Kreso your 5 points are all very relevant Smiley

    The 991 will be another success provided the economies recover or at least don't crumble much further. The 911, even in its friendlier 991 format, will still be a Western world car, comprared to the Cayenne and Panamera, so a lot will depend on these economies. For example affluent Russians here cannot understand why I choose to drive a 911 instead of a Cayenne Smiley


    --
     

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Gnil:
    a928:

    Im a bit astonished that these points are not discussed here and no critiscism - or if anyone else has diffent ideas on the 911-  are accepted. 

    So far I always had a very positive impression of rennteam as it was neutral, had facts etc..but it seems unpleasant facts are not welcome..

    Look at other Porsche forums..there this things are discussed..

     There no point of discussion number yet, as there are no official release and , most importantly , there are no ' neutral' test yet . Once we will have independent journalist test the car, then we can really discuss numbers. Before, it is just a waist of energy Smiley

    Gruezi Gnil,
    Yes...your are partly right..but I have already posted some numbers here on nürburgring times..Smiley..but that wasnt really welcome here either..Smiley

    Well, yes, but I agree...we have to wait for the first test..I mean real test .- Sport Auto test around Nürburgring..that will bring us some facts..things like "oh the 991 is perfect and drives perfect" and all kinds of other marketing things dont count for me...

    Schönen Tag noch in der schönen SchweizSmiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:

    Kreso your 5 points are all very relevant Smiley

    The 991 will be another success provided the economies recover or at least don't crumble much further. The 911, even in its friendlier 991 format, will still be a Western world car, comprared to the Cayenne and Panamera, so alot will depend on these economies. For example affluent Russians here cannot understand why I choose to drive a 911 instead of a Cayenne Smiley


    Hi reginos,

    Well, being often for my work in the eastern European but also Russian world..first..their culture and habits/ wishes etc strive more for a Cayenne.

    Second, the roads are still partly in very bad condition...highways are maybe the same as here...many are new etc..but once you get off the highway with a GT3 or Carrera GT you will run into problems.

    Regarding the third point on the economy..my prediction is we will run into a serious recession in the next 1 to max 2 years...how long that period will last will be unclear..this is my personal opnion...but if you look around the world all the indicators go in that direction. Intersting to see will be how the US market will do...and I predict the next years will be for Porsche a serious problem there..lets see..


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    a928:

    Ah something that will keep me from buying a 991S - is the engine - I drove the 385hp engine...the 991S has 400..so under normal circumstances you wont be able to feel the difference. The 9A1 engine was another disappointment ..I asked myslelf where the 385hp are...compared to my GT3 it felt I was missing 50 or more hp.  

    Very strange impression you had Smiley  I regularly track my 997.2 S and I am at par with the 996 GT3 on the track. I let you imagine how these owners feel Smiley

    On straight acceleration I am staying right behind the 997.1 GT3 ( and have done the test quite a few times, as my brother ownes' one ) 

    Maybe you did not have a good car or just test drove it in a hurry. PDK is actually very fast and good ( with the paddles + sport chrono )


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    a928:
    WAY:

    I can't agree more with that Kreso.  Regarding the engine visibility, I don't understand the need to see the engine when it isn't much to look at in the first place...


    Im always amazed when I read such comments..again: why have others done differently? R8, gallardo, 458, M5, dont know what else to list...

    I said already yesterday, Golf GTI engine (car for 30000) looks better than 991 now..a 911 as the sports car of the century  (OK..last century..but still)...didnt the 991 want to be THE REFERENCE in everything? Is  that the new reference - not seing the engine???

    I havent really seen one comment explaining that ..only always the same metaphers...yeah..you could see much anyway in a 997...so then dirch it completely.

    I bet you thhe next gallardo, 458 or whatever will still have a visible engine..


    M5, Golf GTI? You are kidding right. All you see is an engine cover. Yes, just some plastic! Likewise with 997. It's covered by plastic. Peel away the plastic on those cars and you see some metal that isn't that attractive. Gallardo, 458 and R8 have very beautiful engines, but would I buy a R8 over a Gt3? No thanks. Showing the engine these days is just all part of look, has nothing to do with performance, serviceability (can you imagine 458 owners tinkering with their cars???) or anything else. Sure, I, like most car enthusiast loves seeing a nice engine or a nice CF air intake on display. But is it necessary? No. Btw, like the Boxster/Cayman, I'm sure you can still open a second "door" to reveal the engine.

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Gnil:
    a928:

    Ah something that will keep me from buying a 991S - is the engine - I drove the 385hp engine...the 991S has 400..so under normal circumstances you wont be able to feel the difference. The 9A1 engine was another disappointment ..I asked myslelf where the 385hp are...compared to my GT3 it felt I was missing 50 or more hp.  

    Very strange impression you had Smiley  I regularly track my 997.2 S and I am at par with the 996 GT3 on the track. I let you imagine how these owners feel Smiley

    On straight acceleration I am staying right behind the 997.1 GT3 ( and have done the test quite a few times, as my brother ownes' one ) 

    Maybe you did not have a good car or just test drove it in a hurry. PDK is actually very fast and good ( with the paddles + sport chrono )


    Gnil, what a928 is describing is just the sensory overload that GT3's provide. The noise, the vibration, the feel, its all part of driving a GT3. When I drove my friend's GTS PDK for the first time, I thought the car is pretty slow and has no power compared to my 997.2 GT3. But when we actually raced in a straight line, I realise that it is all just down to the fact that the GTS is much more refined. So no, nothing to do with facts, just perception. But then again that is what owning a GT3 is all about.

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:
    zoltan:

    I think there are some common design elements on the front of the bumper with italian exotica...

    Ferrari-F430-red-concept.jpg

     

    image.png.jpg

     The 911 has been around for nearly 50 years, the F430 about 7... But personally I don't see any resemblance.

    Take a closer look. The triangular air intakes is almost the same. The shape of the center plastic part, too.

    I didn't compare the overall design of the two cars (which is completely different) but the design of the front bumper. After all  the major stylistic change between the front area  of 997 & 991is taking place on the bumper.

    Btw, the bumper is the most useful designing tool today for many automakers regarding the appearance of the front end. Just remember how the front bumper of M3 E46 (with three separate intakes) inspired so many cars.


    --

    911% obsessed


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ADias:

    There are 2 types of 911 fans in this forum. Those who grew up with the 911 and like its all-in-the-rear pendulum dynamics and spartan sports car layout, and those who want the latest gizmo. I belong to the 1st.

    No one will convince me that the 991 will drive the same. Simply no way, given its 4" longer WB. It will drive more like a Panamera, and a Panamera drives fantastic. To the new members who love the 991, I say again - yes it will drive fantastic, perhaps more stable than the 997, but for some of us - and there ar plenty of us - that is not a good thing.

    But no matter, there are plenty of great 911s since the 901 till the 997.2. Yesterday, I attended the Concours on the Avenue in Carmel, part of the Monterey Car Week. Plenty of great restored 911s - some like the '73 lime green duck tail here:

    See more Concours Photos HERE.

     

     

    No, there are two kind of 911 fans: Those who are always seem to live in the past, claiming that the older 911s have always been better, faster, sportier, more attractive and there are those, who enjoy the subtle but constantly moving on evolution of the 911.

    I belong to the second group.

    The 911 is a legend, no doubt about it. I started with a 993, which, compared to my former BMW M3 Coupe 3.0 with 286 hp, was very difficult to drive. Since the 993, I had two 996 Carrera and Carrera 4 Powerkit, one 996 Turbo, one 997 Carrera S, one 997 Turbo and now the 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet. I can assure you with every single cell of my body that the Carrera GTS is the best 911 Carrera Porsche ever built. Ever. This includes the Carrera RS.

    It really depends on what you are looking for: I am looking for the most refined and fastest 911 (at the level of each model)  and I couldn't care less about vintage or classic models. To be honest, I actually don't like them too much, they are unsafe (I still remember the guy who got killed in his vintage classic Porsche because the steering went through his chest...at a speed of only 40 kph), they are pretty slow compared to modern Porsches and while I like how they look, I couldn't dislike more how they drive.

    Don't get me wrong but it fascinates me a lot to see how Porsche succeeds in modernizing the 911 and keeping it alive. Compare the current 997 to the competition and despite the "old VW Beetle derivate", like some call it sarcastically, the 997 is the hell of a sports car.

    I didn't like the 996 too much and I think that the 997 is actually Porsche's 911 masterpiece but the new 991 is not much different and if it drives better, I'm satisfied.

    As to the GT3 perception, yes, it is part of the GT3 experience. I don't say the GT3 is slow, no way but take the first 997 GT3 and compare it to the current Carrera GTS Coupe with sport chassis and both cars are actually the same performance-wise, which is surprising (or not).

    I agree, the 385 hp Carrera S engine is a little bit lazy in the upper rev range but I think that Porsche proved very well that there can be done something about it...hence the powerkit and/or Carrera GTS engine.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    RC:

    It really depends on what you are looking for: I am looking for the most refined and fastest 911 (at the level of each model)  and I couldn't care less about vintage or classic models. To be honest, I actually don't like them too much, they are unsafe............they are pretty slow compared to modern Porsches and while I like how they look, I couldn't dislike more how the drive.

     

    You have just totally described my view.

    I went from 964C4 to 993RS to 996GT2 to 997GT2. I like looking at older cars, but find them so disappointing to drive. I made the mistake of buying a Ferrari 308GTB about 15 years ago, because it was the car on my bedroom wall as a kid and watching Magnum on TV made it a sort of dream. Other than it being beautiful and sounding great it was terrible. In every single way (handling, brakes, acceleration, comfort, ergonomics etc) it was out-driven by my then Golf GTi. When I watch TV it's on a 65inch plasma, I don't wish they were still making 32inch cathode-ray TVs, or 14 inch black/white........

    The new 991 looks great to me. It was always going to evolve and be 'different' to a 997, otherwise it would simply have been a 997.3.

    That said I love that some people like older cars, love them and preserve them as I love seeing them, I just don't have a single desire to own/drive them.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Guy:

    That said I love that some people like older cars, love them and preserve them as I love seeing them, I just don't have a single desire to own/drive them.

     

    Perfect description of my feelings.  Smiley

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:

    Here is an interesting comparison between 997 and 991.  Makes the 997 look like a beetle (taller) in comparison.  http://www.ausmotive.com/2011/08/18/porsche-911-991-compared-to-997.html

     

    This is actually a fantastic comparison and it makes the 997 look more outdated than I initially thought. Still...if you don't see both cars back to back, most people on the street won't really see the difference, which is a good thing in my opinion.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    2012-991-Porsche-911-interior-630x317.jpg

    991.bmp

    Porsche_911_991_09pop.jpg

     

    abitacolodefinitivoPorsche991.jpg


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    RC:
    I just said that there will be another sports car between the 911 and the 918 and it may give those satisfaction who are slightly disappointed with the 911 design (which I love by the way).

     

    Do you think this will be prior to, or post 991 Turbo launch? I'm waitng for both. I just pray that the 991 Turbo doesn't get the unsightly fog lamps that the 997 Turbo had (which didn't stop me buying it of course!).

    Nevertheless,  Bravo to Porsche for this evolution of the 911 in Base and S form which let's face it is the core market. This explains to a large extent the extended wheelbase, steering , and interior evolutions  - which are suited to this market which  uses it as a day to day cruiser with a sporty/ heritage/ snob value / feelgood factor. All those complaining about how the 911 is losing its soul etc should just wait for the sportier variants. The 911  family is broad enough to satisfy all tastes.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    RC:
    ADias:

    There are 2 types of 911 fans in this forum. Those who grew up with the 911 and like its all-in-the-rear pendulum dynamics and spartan sports car layout, and those who want the latest gizmo. I belong to the 1st.

    No one will convince me that the 991 will drive the same. Simply no way, given its 4" longer WB. It will drive more like a Panamera, and a Panamera drives fantastic. To the new members who love the 991, I say again - yes it will drive fantastic, perhaps more stable than the 997, but for some of us - and there ar plenty of us - that is not a good thing.

    But no matter, there are plenty of great 911s since the 901 till the 997.2. Yesterday, I attended the Concours on the Avenue in Carmel, part of the Monterey Car Week. Plenty of great restored 911s - some like the '73 lime green duck tail here:

    See more Concours Photos HERE.

     

     

    No, there are two kind of 911 fans: Those who are always seem to live in the past, claiming that the older 911s have always been better, faster, sportier, more attractive and there are those, who enjoy the subtle but constantly moving on evolution of the 911.

    I belong to the second group.

    The 911 is a legend, no doubt about it. I started with a 993, which, compared to my former BMW M3 Coupe 3.0 with 286 hp, was very difficult to drive. Since the 993, I had two 996 Carrera and Carrera 4 Powerkit, one 996 Turbo, one 997 Carrera S, one 997 Turbo and now the 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet. I can assure you with every single cell of my body that the Carrera GTS is the best 911 Carrera Porsche ever built. Ever. This includes the Carrera RS.

    It really depends on what you are looking for: I am looking for the most refined and fastest 911 (at the level of each model)  and I couldn't care less about vintage or classic models. To be honest, I actually don't like them too much, they are unsafe (I still remember the guy who got killed in his vintage classic Porsche because the steering went through his chest...at a speed of only 40 kph), they are pretty slow compared to modern Porsches and while I like how they look, I couldn't dislike more how the drive.

    Don't get me wrong but it fascinates me a lot to see how Porsche succeeds in modernizing the 911 and keeping it alive. Compare the current 997 to the competition and despite the "old VW Beetle derivate", like some call it sarcastically, the 997 is the hell of a sports car.

    I didn't like the 996 too much and I think that the 997 is actually Porsche's 911 masterpiece but the new 991 is not much different and if it drives better, I'm satisfied.

    RC,

    sometimes PART of the past is better than present. We don't have to accept everything. This does not mean that someone ''lives in the past'' . It means that he has the ability to separate the elements of a car.

    I totally respect the evolution of 911 and especially the open minded engineers who have the ability to blend the classic 911 charisma with new markets BUT as ''ADias'' pointed there are some owners who really like the old fashioned dynamics. This does not mean that he lives in the past. He likes this specific feeling. That's all.

    I don't like old fashioned dynamics.  But i do like specific feeling of some models, such as  996 Turbo (which was the best overall sports car in 2001),  997 -20mm, all the GT3 models but also the pure feeling of a basic spec Cayman (without PASM, and big wheels), Turbo 997.2 with paddles and torque vectoring, too. BTW,  i really enjoy the Cup Models of Renault, a Mitsubishi Evo 9, the brutal power of Viper and the fantastic Ferrari 458 as well.

    But, hey..., i need a hand break on a sports car. I enjoy the feeling of a well judged hydraulic steering pump everyday and obviously 991 will be more stable at speed. Will it be easier? It seems so. But  Audi R8 is exceptionally stable too. And i would say better in lane change, too. But i am a little bored with safer & safer, faster & faster, refined - more refined cars.

    We belong to a different group. 

     


    --

    911% obsessed


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Maybe the fact that I'm a gadget freak and techie too, is the reason why I enjoy every bit of new (and hopefully working) technology.

    I think that the 993 vs. 996 comparison is a pretty good one: After owning a 993 (and getting used to it, wasn't easy), I test-drove a 996 when it first showed up. I didn't like the exterior of the 996 too much, especially those horrible front light. After the test-drive, I ordered one on the spot. No kidding. It was such a huge difference vs. the 993 and in a good way. Porsche had finally caught up with modern car technology and I loved it.

    Regarding the 996 Turbo: I just loved this car, I had it tuned by RS Tuning later on. The front light design still wasn't my thing but the AWD setup was much better than on the 997 Turbo for example. The 997 Turbo electronic AWD system was actually my first disappointment with new technology from Porsche...and of course the PCM when it was introduced on the 996. It (PCM) drove me crazy, even after a couple of software updates. Horrible. No comparison to the current touch operated PCM 3.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    a928:
    I said already yesterday, Golf GTI engine (car for 30000) looks better than 991 now..

    Volkswagen-Golf_GTI_2010_Engine-picture.jpg

     

    You must be joking right? I find all your posts a bit silly, but this one takes the cake. Smiley We know you don't like the 991, that's fine but why keep coming back to this tread then? Smiley 

     


    --

    Morgan Aero 8


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    when I said it is to much of a GT car - what I ment to say is that if you use a 911 as a daily car to drive to the office you might want to have all the bells & whistles the new cockpit is having - however, having owned the RS now for 5 month what I admire is the "back to basics" because I - personally - don't want to have seat-heating and all the goodies anymore that I have in my daily car anyway - for me Porsche driving became a "special" event whereas driving has been put into the center of focus. I don't want to drive a S-Class for example and switch to a SL on w-ends having exactly the same configuration just sitting a bit lower. if I am having 3 cars I want each to be totally different.

    I love the 991 and I am sure it will blow me away once I see it in real life - but I am just afraid it wants to be such much combined that it's core-reason is a bit washed-off.....for sure there are other models to follow to please everybody. I am sure it will be a success nevertheless !


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    RC:
    ADias:

    There are 2 types of 911 fans in this forum. Those who grew up with the 911 and like its all-in-the-rear pendulum dynamics and spartan sports car layout, and those who want the latest gizmo. I belong to the 1st.

    No one will convince me that the 991 will drive the same. Simply no way, given its 4" longer WB. It will drive more like a Panamera, and a Panamera drives fantastic. To the new members who love the 991, I say again - yes it will drive fantastic, perhaps more stable than the 997, but for some of us - and there ar plenty of us - that is not a good thing.

    But no matter, there are plenty of great 911s since the 901 till the 997.2. Yesterday, I attended the Concours on the Avenue in Carmel, part of the Monterey Car Week. Plenty of great restored 911s - some like the '73 lime green duck tail here:

    See more Concours Photos HERE.

     

     

    No, there are two kind of 911 fans: Those who are always seem to live in the past, claiming that the older 911s have always been better, faster, sportier, more attractive and there are those, who enjoy the subtle but constantly moving on evolution of the 911.

    I belong to the second group.

    The 911 is a legend, no doubt about it. I started with a 993, which, compared to my former BMW M3 Coupe 3.0 with 286 hp, was very difficult to drive. Since the 993, I had two 996 Carrera and Carrera 4 Powerkit, one 996 Turbo, one 997 Carrera S, one 997 Turbo and now the 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet. I can assure you with every single cell of my body that the Carrera GTS is the best 911 Carrera Porsche ever built. Ever. This includes the Carrera RS.

    It really depends on what you are looking for: I am looking for the most refined and fastest 911 (at the level of each model)  and I couldn't care less about vintage or classic models. To be honest, I actually don't like them too much, they are unsafe (I still remember the guy who got killed in his vintage classic Porsche because the steering went through his chest...at a speed of only 40 kph), they are pretty slow compared to modern Porsches and while I like how they look, I couldn't dislike more how the drive.

    Don't get me wrong but it fascinates me a lot to see how Porsche succeeds in modernizing the 911 and keeping it alive. Compare the current 997 to the competition and despite the "old VW Beetle derivate", like some call it sarcastically, the 997 is the hell of a sports car.

    I didn't like the 996 too much and I think that the 997 is actually Porsche's 911 masterpiece but the new 991 is not much different and if it drives better, I'm satisfied.


    Hello Rennteam Moderator,

    Well, Im not living in the past..altough I also have a Porsche 356, + one other oldtimer...but I would for example never pay these ridicoulous prices for these cars today. Yes, old Porsches are unsafe..I know that..thats why Im not driving them daily...but still I like them ..Im a Porsche fan and I like to collect and own as many as possible. But just because Im drive a 356 for 1000km in a year Im living in the past?? Just because Im saying a 911 without being able to see the engine (is for me) not a real 911 anymore? Come on..your loosing every sense of neutrality here...if youre afraid to agree that even the 991 has some flaws..then..becomes clear by whom you are paid..

    And yes I enjow driving my 997 much more then the oldtimers...and yes I agree with you fully the 997 is not a beetle (those comments are just ridicoulus and stupid)..and compared to the competition its still very goodSmiley..Porsche has to be ashamed of nothing....and regarding the issue of the 997 not being able to be stable at high speeds...I know the 997GT3.1..the 997.GT2 and the 997.2 GT3...the last 997s are already much better at high speeds...saying that the GT3 2010 is unstable at high speeds is wrong..

    Coming back to the 991: what I dont like here is that some (and it seems mostly rennteam moderators?!) are trying to keep down any sort of criticism...and just promoting the idea.."oh whatever Porsche does is great, everything new is always better, and we need now 100 switches on the dashboard..and not seing the engine anymore is great because it doesnt matter anymore"..it seems a bit like 16olds storming into the shops for getting new apple gizmos.

    I dont need always the latest gizmos and more buttons..the 997 is already a very good car..but what Im trying to say is that performace wise we have reached already almost the top.just read the latest Sport Auto on the GT3RS 4.0L...

    The Carrera GT in 2004 did the ring in 7:33..in the middle of 2011 only three cars that have gone below that..the good news is that two out these are Porsches.Smiley.Im happy about that. But words like the 991 is ages better in handling, it will marginalise the 997 in every aspect..thats complet bs...- at least performance wise

    I have already mentioned that here.

    997.1 S : 8:05 at the ring

    991 (standard with 350hp): 8:05 at the ring (figues mentioned by Mr Achleintner in several German articles..he should know what hes talking about)

    yes..I know this wining will start...but the 997.1 had a sports chassis...but still..if the 991 is so great and so much better and so much newer..and it cant be one sec. faster then 997.1?..not even talking about the 997.2..these figures - with same hp - just leave it up to the chassis to make the difference..wich according to these numbers and facts is close to 0 - at least for the standard car.

    Yes, the 991 will be more comfortable, will be more economical..will have more gizmos..but for me these things are not so important..I dont change everyday my clothes like a fashion style..

    Modern cars are already so well developped (including the 997, 458 etc) that it will not be possible anymore to gain significant performance gains..people who have some racing experience know what Im talking about..

    take care,


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I am 46 years old. I drove many different sports cars, regular cars, SUVs and even some real race cars. I love cars. On the other hand, I love Porsche. I have a family, a wife and two kids. They are part of my life and I want to be able to be with them as much as I can. On weekends, we usually love to drive to a lake, to an amusement park or just to a nice restaurant. I want to drive them in my car but Porsche almost made this impossible in the 911. If the new 991 offers more rear space and enhanced performance vs. the 997, I have nothing to complaint. I don't want a smaller car, I want a car I can feel good about it, including taking my whole family with me. I know that Porsche wants to see every 911 owner buying a Cayenne or a Panamera too but most people don't have the money or just don't want to spend that much on cars. So if the new 991 fits my family, I will probably go for it. If not, the Cayenne Turbo S could be my next car. 

    I don't know the average age of the typical Porsche owner but I think it is somewhere around 38 or 40, I may be wrong though. Of course I would love to buy a 991 Carrera S Cabriolet for some open top fun, a 991 GT3 for some track fun and a 991 Turbo for Autobahn fun. Unfortunately I can't afford buying three different Porsche, so I have to choose one. I also can't afford a garage queen anymore, so buying a GT3 or GT3 RS just to keep it in the garage most of the time, isn't an option for me, as much as I would love to own one.

    I think that many people around my age are in the same situation and this is why a bigger 911 with more interior room but no performance compromises is very welcomed.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    spudgun:
    a928:
    I said already yesterday, Golf GTI engine (car for 30000) looks better than 991 now..

    Volkswagen-Golf_GTI_2010_Engine-picture.jpg

     

    You must be joking right? I find all your posts a bit silly, but this one takes the cake. Smiley We know you don't like the 991, that's fine but why keep coming back to this tread then? Smiley 

     

    is that a picture of te golf 5 GTI? I think not..but even so ..at least you can see something..and engine is somewhere there..better than nothing..and were not talking here about a 100,000 sports car, or are we??
    I have a friend who as a golf GTI ..I know his engine looks better than that..but I think it was a Golf 5..if Im not mistaken there is already a golf 6...

    ah..do me some favour: post some pictures of the a 458, gallardo, R8 etc engine bay..Smiley..that would be good to look at..SmileySmiley


     
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