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    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    Brothers and sisters, let us all join hands now a praise be the lord Musk almighty.... hallelujah! indecision

    That is not the point at all. Going after Elon helps you how?  While he is obviously not perfect the point is he is not the evil person or sinister character he is portrayed as.  Your comments serve the wrong side - if you think about for a bit. By wrong side I mean those who don’t care about the safety or quality of the car you drive or the cost of your energy.  In fact they care about almost nothing which actually matters to you.  So you joke about something you don’t quite understand to be part of the hip crowd. How pleasant. 


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    Brothers and sisters, let us all join hands now and praise the lord Musk almighty.... hallelujah! indecision

    Too bad you’re not here in the States so you can watch these commercials.  https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/16/don-odowd-elon-musk-00025688?_amp=true  Thousands of miles from California and there were two of the commercials today.  
     

    Yesterday, an Automotive News article was posted on the regulators dim view of Tesla’s FSD.  Automotive News is a highly respected periodical in the industry and that article was about as unbiased as they come on this topic. Regulators don’t take light attacks on their authority so this is will be interesting.   


    Re: Tesla

    Interesting yes. Shows how corrupt and idiotic our government is.  The follow the science party that can’t tell men from woman. Apparently they can’t read numbers and prefer to sacrifice drivers to the auto union gods. We must certainly fear the regulators because if they can go after Elon they can go after anyone. 
    In terms of FSD - it is optional. People don’t need to buy it or use it. Many of the advances in safety over the years have faces similar obstacles- mostly from competitors who could not compete. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood, you are like an easily triggered broken record repeating the same mantras no matter what yes


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    Leawood, you are like an easily triggered broken record repeating the same mantras no matter what yes

    I am just consistent at pointing out the obvious.  You are triggered to not actually provide any substance other than surprise that someone has common sense and the conviction to stand up for it. 
    i also tend to trust my own eyes and experience along with actual customer feedback. What I don’t trust are the competition and the detractors who have every motive in the world to play this game. Can you think of any motive I or Tesla customers have to push back?  Maybe we know something closer to the truth.  


    Re: Tesla

    see what I mean?



    Re: Tesla

    Tesla latest earnings call. 

    I would applaud for a solid quarter. Solid profit without gimmicks. 

    But it also disclosed that, admitting for the first time ever, they are playing catch up with others. Only now they are considering 800V system for their upcoming Cybertruck, and Semi. But in the Semi's case, they could already behind even before they settle on 800V as others are planning kV charging systems. 

    Now if they Cybertruck do come in 800V, where are they gonna be charged at? They have to upgrade their supercharger network to 800V regardless of whether the Model 3, Model Y, Model S Model X going 800V or not. 

    Designing a 800V car vs a 400V has literally zero material cost difference, the 800V system actually is cheaper just because of thinner wires. The circuitry map are literally the same. I suspect once the Cybertruck is in production, they will do a stealth hardware change to get the other models to 800V. 

    Hyundai with their Ioniq 5 and the KIA's version EV6, proved 800V system doesn't have to cost more than 400V, and there are huge benefits on charging speed. Those 2 Hyundai offerings are priced below Model 3s yet offers much more content, better material usage even. As of right now, the Hyundai Ioniq 5 is the benchmark mainstream EV, displacing the Model 3, everyone and their mother is getting one, think the current wait time is 18-24 months. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Musk secures financing to acquire Twitter.  https://www.reuters.com/technology/musk-exploring-tender-offer-acquire-outstanding-shares-twitter-2022-04-21/

    ...is this good news for Tesla shareholders? Smiley

    “Musk himself has committed to put up $33.5 billion, which will include $21 billion of equity and $12.5 billion of margin loans against some of his Tesla Inc shares to finance the transaction.”

    ...is there a risk that EIon will have to sell more TesIa shares to cover his financial liabilities? Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Tesla latest earnings call. 

    I would applaud for a solid quarter. Solid profit without gimmicks. 

    But it also disclosed that, admitting for the first time ever, they are playing catch up with others. Only now they are considering 800V system for their upcoming Cybertruck, and Semi. But in the Semi's case, they could already behind even before they settle on 800V as others are planning kV charging systems. 

    Now if they Cybertruck do come in 800V, where are they gonna be charged at? They have to upgrade their supercharger network to 800V regardless of whether the Model 3, Model Y, Model S Model X going 800V or not. 

    Designing a 800V car vs a 400V has literally zero material cost difference, the 800V system actually is cheaper just because of thinner wires. The circuitry map are literally the same. I suspect once the Cybertruck is in production, they will do a stealth hardware change to get the other models to 800V. 

    Hyundai with their Ioniq 5 and the KIA's version EV6, proved 800V system doesn't have to cost more than 400V, and there are huge benefits on charging speed. Those 2 Hyundai offerings are priced below Model 3s yet offers much more content, better material usage even. As of right now, the Hyundai Ioniq 5 is the benchmark mainstream EV, displacing the Model 3, everyone and their mother is getting one, think the current wait time is 18-24 months. 

     

    I seriously doubt some plans for 800 volt in semis or other is playing catch-up. There is a whole lot more to EVs.  But you are funny to again think it is all about 800 volt. 


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    see what I mean?

    You did read that you don’t add much substance right?  See what I mean. 
    Feel free to again act surprised that I have common sense


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    Tesla latest earnings call. 

    I would applaud for a solid quarter. Solid profit without gimmicks. 

    But it also disclosed that, admitting for the first time ever, they are playing catch up with others. Only now they are considering 800V system for their upcoming Cybertruck, and Semi. But in the Semi's case, they could already behind even before they settle on 800V as others are planning kV charging systems. 

    Now if they Cybertruck do come in 800V, where are they gonna be charged at? They have to upgrade their supercharger network to 800V regardless of whether the Model 3, Model Y, Model S Model X going 800V or not. 

    Designing a 800V car vs a 400V has literally zero material cost difference, the 800V system actually is cheaper just because of thinner wires. The circuitry map are literally the same. I suspect once the Cybertruck is in production, they will do a stealth hardware change to get the other models to 800V. 

    Hyundai with their Ioniq 5 and the KIA's version EV6, proved 800V system doesn't have to cost more than 400V, and there are huge benefits on charging speed. Those 2 Hyundai offerings are priced below Model 3s yet offers much more content, better material usage even. As of right now, the Hyundai Ioniq 5 is the benchmark mainstream EV, displacing the Model 3, everyone and their mother is getting one, think the current wait time is 18-24 months. 

     

    I seriously doubt some plans for 800 volt in semis or other is playing catch-up. There is a whole lot more to EVs.  But you are funny to again think it is all about 800 volt. 

     

    Just simple science.

    Right now on their 400V system, they can do peak advertised charging power for a tiny amount of time, then it overheats and needed to ramp down the rate. With 800V there will be much less heat and they can sustain the high power longer. 

    Honestly, they still haven't figure out an efficient way to push power into the car at 400V. The Audi e-Tron is so last generation EV yet it's still king of the 400V system, it doesn't do the high peak rate of the Teslas but it will do 150kW sustained all day long without throttling. 

    Pushing 625A at 400V to do their 250kW charger is very thermal intensive. But making the jump to 800V it's just over 300A, very easily doable on any Tesla for a much longer period of time. 

    To have acceptable range on the Semi, it needs to have close to 2000kW if not much more of battery power. Every if they can sustain 250kW from start to finish that's still 8+ hours of charging at 400V. That's a lot of energy lost via heat during charging. I believe the current target is to get to 500kW if not more for big rig charging. Pushing 1250A at 400V simply isn't feasible. Heck at 800V it still needs 625A. Get over 1000V then the current will be much more manageable. 

    You can do the math yourself, but the formula is set in stone and won't change no matter what number you put in. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    99% of the time EV users charge at home where they park.  An often misunderstood fact. 
    Engine and battery efficiency is far more important in the real world although once a car has 250 + miles of range much of these discussions are academic.  Trucks used to haul over the road have a much bigger stake in charging quickly.  


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    99% of the time EV users charge at home where they park.  An often misunderstood fact. 

    Again, that's a false statement. Just because you and I are doing that doesn't mean every one is doing that. Not every EV owners lives in a detached house in the suburbs. A lot are city dwellers in condos and apartment complex where there are communal chargers shared by all. Or relying on the city's public network to charge. Or charge it at work with public chargers at work places. 

    It might have been 100% when EV first appeared, but that % is dropping when more and more consumers adopt EVs. Be it high gas prices or caring for the environment as the reason. Day by day more and more public chargers are popping up and more and more are replying on public chargers to fill their car, like how gas stations are. 

    My city is a prime example. We have the most EVs per capita, and not everyone can/is charging at home. There is a shopping mall with like 20 Tesla superchargers, every day, day or night, those chargers are almost always fully occupied. Go check out all the downtown core of big metropolises, packed full of high rise condos, plenty of EVs in those parking lots and a big percentage of those relies on public chargers. 

    Of course in ideal scenarios installing a charger at home would be the cheapest and most convenient, but that's not a deal breaker for most even if they cannot. Public charging spots are growing, fast.

    If the public charging infrastructures are adequate, there is no need to install your own charger, why spend money installing new circuits at home when there are chargers at work that they can plug into?


    Engine and battery efficiency is far more important in the real world although once a car has 250 + miles of range much of these discussions are academic.  Trucks used to haul over the road have a much bigger stake in charging quickly.  

    And charging quickly means 400V, or even 800V, would not be fast enough for the big rigs. Which also means Tesla's plan for using 800V for their Semi is obsolete already. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    An analysis of why Tesla gains little from switching to an 800v architecture.  https://www.thedrive.com/news/why-teslas-not-switching-away-from-its-400-volt-architecture-right-now  The cost aspect may be true but the benefits to the consumer are summarily dismissed by Tesla.  


    Re: Tesla

    Tesla has a lot at stake to try and keep 400V for as long as possible.

    They have hundreds of thousands of superchargers to upgrade, and re-engineering 4 models.

    Maybe a OTA update, Tesla fan's favourite and most important thing, will change their cars to 800V magically.

    GM, with it's Hummer, is doing a hybrid 400/800V system, car runs on 400V but when charging, the 2 packs become serialized and can take in 800V. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Tesla has a lot at stake to try and keep 400V for as long as possible.

    They have hundreds of thousands of superchargers to upgrade, and re-engineering 4 models.

    Maybe a OTA update, Tesla fan's favourite and most important thing, will change their cars to 800V magically.

    GM, with it's Hummer, is doing a hybrid 400/800V system, car runs on 400V but when charging, the 2 packs become serialized and can take in 800V. 

     

    There is soooo much more to a Tesla the competitors need to worry about. 800 volt or not is hardly of any importance.  It is not keeping them from selling cars.

    If I could not charge at home there is no way I would own an EV. The current battery supply over the next five years is going to be barely enough for 10% of homeowners who can charge.  While some will buy them anyway ownership is really going to suck for them. 


    Re: Tesla

    How about comparison with hydrogen cars?😀

    I just pre-ordered the Toyota Mirai gen 2. It was just announced here in Canada, and a hydrogen station just happened to be right on the route where I do school runs everyday 😀

    No brainer. Car is $54,999 CAD. Government is giving $8,000 credits and Toyota is giving $15,000 worth of free hydrogen. $30k for a high tech car? Where do I sign?

    Refueling hydrogen is just as quick as filling gasoline, major selling advantage. Paid for by Toyota is just cherry on top.

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Back to more Tesla news.

    Now that Elon is going to buy Twitter, well that's the plan, before clearing some red tapes, by pledging more shares as collaterals for his loan, it has been calculated by Bloomberg that the magic number is $740.

    $740 isn't too far away from today's closing price, of $877. Once Tesla shares drops below $740, he will face margin calls from his lenders. that could be the first card to fall for the house of cards. Could turn ugly quick as most of his shares of Tesla are already pledged. 

    He should be boasting about some imaginary Tesla future products soon in order to pump the price back up. Not the classic pump and dump trick, but pump to survive trick.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    It is an interesting purchase which is clearly getting under that skin of those benefiting from the various flavors of censorship.  Until people catch on to the importance of free speech this will make him the type of political target I have been talking about.  Now would be a good time to decide he is correct and needs our help to secure our freedoms and liberty OR one could choose to not see the importance, believe the haters of free speech and supporters of tyranny. 
    This is a huge turning point and it is about time for people to stop acting like sheep, think for themselves and their children’s future and wake up to reality. 
     

    And no, Elon is not running out of money but I get why those unable to collect that headspace rent wish he would. Too funny. 


    Re: Tesla

    Or maybe it's time to stop calling people sheep because they don't think like you when you are so gullible to think that he bought Twitter to "secure our freedoms and liberty" lol and not further his business and political interests (with which there is nothing wrong with btw).

    I'm glad he bought Twitter, and hope he fires all the top management too, the fact checkers in Twitter here are all well known leftist organizations that use their fact checking responsibilities to censor opposing political views and activists and don't even hide it. Hopefully that will change with Musk, not because he is our almighty leader and savior but because it is in his politcal interest to do so which works for me, go Elon.


    Re: Tesla

    Fair enough. No more sheep. :-)

    The big picture is interesting. Clearly Elon was starting to face political headwinds coming at him from all directions. Getting out in front of that was critical. He could see not only the value to him but also to society in general if Twitter was focused on free expression and could not be used to control opposing views. As that type of company, combined with ISP free star Link internet service he will not just be able to effectively provide a free exchange of information for everyone but the value of the company may be immense at that point. In a way it is the key to freedom for many oppressed countries who are far more impacted by lack of same.  This is a huge deal hence you see outrage by those losing quite wicked powers over us.  I would not be surprised if those powers are behind the tesla stock price drop given that the company itself is doing very well.  At any rate he is correct to get out in front of the problem.  His interests are far more aligned with mine and the average persons than any politician I have seen. 
    He has set an interesting chess board - those who oppose him now expose their true feelings about not just sustainable energy, solving transportation problems and space colonization but now also freedom of speech. One should start to question how they get so far playing such horrible cards?  A few up the sleeve maybe? 
     

    It is never possible to say which side of the debate is correct but the debate must be allowed. 
    No tyrant can survive freedom of speech. We all know that dictatorships everywhere would collapse if people could know all the facts and speak out. Hence it is the first amendment. 
    By contrast history has shown again and again that not allowing the debate and freedom to express guarantees tyrants. 
    My conclusion has always been that they are the ones not just opposing free speech but they will stop at nothing to take it away. The bigger the prize - like the US economy - the dirtier the fight.  Especially if we threaten other’s plans to dominate speech. 


    Re: Tesla

    We actually agree on more things than we disagree on wink


    Re: Tesla

    Elon explains by tweeting this image:

    Elon Pictogram.jpeg


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    Mike

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    It is an interesting purchase which is clearly getting under that skin of those benefiting from the various flavors of censorship.  Until people catch on to the importance of free speech this will make him the type of political target I have been talking about.  Now would be a good time to decide he is correct and needs our help to secure our freedoms and liberty OR one could choose to not see the importance, believe the haters of free speech and supporters of tyranny. 
    This is a huge turning point and it is about time for people to stop acting like sheep, think for themselves and their children’s future and wake up to reality. 
     

    And no, Elon is not running out of money but I get why those unable to collect that headspace rent wish he would. Too funny. 

     

    I am not wishing that to happen, I am just pointing out it could happen. He isn't god or special enough that he will be immune to these simply financial transactions. Many corporations and individuals had experienced that.

    Money at that scale isn't about running out of money or not. It's about liquidity. Basic finance 101. 

    If he faces a margin call on his billions of loans, he will need to cover those calls, meaning he needs to sell even more shares for cash to cover. By selling shares at a large enough volume to hit his needs, it will mean depressing the stock price even more, which might trigger another round of margin calls. Now if that happens, more creditors might feel skittish and call back their loans and that will mean he will need to sell even more stuff to cover.

    At the end of all that, he will still have billions left, still wealthier than most, but that house of cards will be a lot lower.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    W8MM:

    Elon explains by tweeting this image:

    Elon Pictogram.jpeg

    Smiley


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    Re: Tesla

    Elon just sold another ~$8.5bil worth of Tesla stock to fund his Twitter purchase the last two days.

    I have no problem with him buying Twitter. If Bezos can buy Washington Post, Elon can buy whatever he wants. 

    How he finance the purchase is a bit more precarious than normal. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

     


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    Mike

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Elon just sold another ~$8.5bil worth of Tesla stock to fund his Twitter purchase the last two days.

    I have no problem with him buying Twitter. If Bezos can buy Washington Post, Elon can buy whatever he wants. 

    How he finance the purchase is a bit more precarious than normal. 

     

    Oh and with the $8.5bil stock sale by Elon, the magic number now moved up to $837 per share from $740 not so long ago as calculated by Bloomberg.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-29/musk-s-tesla-stock-sales-give-less-room-for-error-on-margin-loan?srnd=premium...

    He is really playing with fire now on his finance plan for buying Twitter. another hour to go before close of today's market, TSLA is now trading at $878, down from a high of above $900 earlier today.

     


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    Re: Tesla

     

    Here's a real world comparison of 4 different EVs on a real world road trip. 

    A Model 3, a Plaid Model X, a Mustang Mach-E, a Hyundai Ioniq 5 and a Taycan CT 4S. 

    800+ mile from Colorado to Vegas in one go. 

    Combined test of range, efficiency, charging speed and charging network.

    Really long video, 2 parts and over an hour each part.

    End result is that the Porsche won by a mile. 2nd place goes to the Ioniq 5. Model X is almost an hour behind the Taycan's time and the Model 3 is not far behind the Model X. Mach-E finished just about 2 hours behind the Taycan.

    Footnote, the Ioniz 5 didn't maximize the 1st leg, if they had they would have been closer to the Taycan.

    Regardless, it shows the advantage of 800V charging, the first 2 places goes to the 2 800V cars. They unplug cars when the charging tapers down to 200kW. A speed the Teslas can't even see. Well one of the Teslas did see 250kW for 5 minutes. 

    The CCS network still needs some fine tuning, it's still not up to Tesla's seamless standard. If it were, the Teslas would have lost to an even bigger margin.

    Biggest winner is the Ioniq 5, it is literally the most perfect EV out there right now, factoring price or not. It cost less than half as much as a Taycan 4S but it is infinitely more practical on interior space. Charges just about as fast. It is the gold standard for EV now. 

    I am quite surprised at my own conclusion, a Korean car, a Hyundai, is the gold standard, Korean cars has come a long long way. Heck, it even looks cooler than a Taycan.

     


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