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    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    I've been to New Orleans as a little kit with my parents but I can't remember much. However, after seeing those shocking pictures on TV, I'm so sorry I don't remember anything because I doubt New Orleans will be ever the same again. I'm so sorry for the people there and their fate and I have to agree that the help for the people should have started much earlier. Over here in Europe, of course the media (especially the German one) is blaming Bush and it seems that they just waited for another chance to criticize the US government. It is funny however that we had some serious flooding too over here in Bavaria over the past few weeks and nobody in the german press blamed our chancellor Schroeder THAT much like they blame Bush for the catastrophy in New Orleans and it's surroundings. I can't help it but it seems that the truth and facts don't really matter, the media gives people what they want to hear.

    Enough talking, guys. DO something: if you have a few bucks to spare, just DONATE for the flood victims. People who lost everything don't really need nice words but MONEY to be able to buy food and other important stuff.

    100 USD or even only 50 USD, it doesn't really hurt us, right?! D.O.N.A.T.E.!!! And if you have more to give, the better.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I've been to New Orleans as a little kit with my parents but I can't remember much. However, after seeing those shocking pictures on TV, I'm so sorry I don't remember anything because I doubt New Orleans will be ever the same again. I'm so sorry for the people there and their fate and I have to agree that the help for the people should have started much earlier. Over here in Europe, of course the media (especially the German one) is blaming Bush and it seems that they just waited for another chance to criticize the US government. It is funny however that we had some serious flooding too over here in Bavaria over the past few weeks and nobody in the german press blamed our chancellor Schroeder THAT much like they blame Bush for the catastrophy in New Orleans and it's surroundings. I can't help it but it seems that the truth and facts don't really matter, the media gives people what they want to hear.

    Enough talking, guys. DO something: if you have a few bucks to spare, just DONATE for the flood victims. People who lost everything don't really need nice words but MONEY to be able to buy food and other important stuff.

    100 USD or even only 50 USD, it doesn't really hurt us, right?! D.O.N.A.T.E.!!! And if you have more to give, the better.



    I think it's amazing that you can sift through the media and still have a lot of common sense, RC. Do others on this board from Europe also believe that "it's Bush's fault"? Do you think we want people to suffer? C'mon.

    Our family has already donated and I'll probably add to that today.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    sloppy cartouche said:
    After an expected catastrophy, to survive during 5 days in a devastated city, without any help from the authorities, you and your childrens and family need maybe to drink something , to eat something , and to wear dry clothes too. And that's more important than private property IMHO. And when you quit your house or shop without any regard for the people who can't run away because they don't have no car, no money, no education, can you so severely blame them to rob some gold you left behind ?




    And what do you think that mini-electric jeep kiddie car that kid is stealing is for? Transporting supplies, those cops, and most other looters are just taking advantage of the situation. Look at the video, it's not about survival.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    No Alan, I don't think that we do. But what does surprise is if the authorities know that so many thousands of people were ignoring the advice to leave, and were aware of the ferocity of the hurricane, than how could they have left peole without food and water for 5 days. I believe nobody intentionally wanted the people of New Orleans to suffer, but I am not sure that their suffering was unavoidable.

    As to question on whether you are safer with your guns. Let me assure you that here in the UK, we have as much crime as everyone else. If an intruder breaks in and i attack him, then I am highly likely to be prosecuted for that and almost certainly having a gun would put me in a stronger position when confronting him. But therein lies the rub, if I can buy a gub for domestic personal use, so can he, and all of a sudden we have the dilemna that you raise.

    Any way, this is not the forum for this type of discussion. From me personally, i really do hope that the suffering in New Orleans ends quickly and that its people can rebuild their lives.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    I hadn't viewed this thread for a few days, since being in Houston we get a fair amount of news about this without rennteam "covering" it.

    Just a few thoughts of mine below.

    1-My brother and his family lived in New Orleans, but obeyed the mandatory evacuation and left the day before Katrina landed. Although he probably lost everything he left behind, he and his family are safe, living at my parents' home. While there are some people that lacked the resources to leave, many people that could have left thought they knew better and chose to stay.
    2-While there are some desperate people who have "looted" for basic necessities of life, like food and water, there are a number of people that have been taking advantage of a terrible situation. We've all heard about people stealing guns, ammunition, TVs (in a city without power?!). The attempted looting of the local hospitals and firing on rescue helicopters cannot be explained away as "desperation." It's simply a criminal lack of respect for the people that are trying to help. It's not excusable or justifiable under any circumstances.
    3- To a certain extent these problems are being exported to other areas. Even though the Houston Astrodome has been open to refugees only a few days, there have already been carjackings, car thefts, robberies and even assaults on the volunteer medical personnel. Again, this behavior cannot be excused or justified. It's simply driven by self-interest at the expense of everyone else.
    4- I am sure more could have been done earlier to reduce the suffering of New Orleans' residents, but the PRIMARY responsibility for disaster relief lies with the city and state governments. Obviously something this size will require federal intervention and Bush and his adminstration will have to take their share of culpability. If Bush ultimately determines that such an event falls under the jurisdiction of the Dept of Homeland Security, it seems like we aren't getting much for the billions we've spent.
    5- Frankly, the citizens of Baghdad seem more civilized than those of New Orleans. The Iraqis certainly have coped with a far more stressful environment for a much longer period of time with more poise and respect for one another.
    6- If I were Iran, I would see the lack of organization during this disaster as a "green light" to work 24/7 on creating a nuclear weapon. It appears the US lacks adequate administrative and logistical resources to deal with more than one problem at a time.
    7- Unless you are intimately familiar with someone's personal background, it is probably best not to make assumptions about what adversities they have overcome, and how they have formed their opinions about various aspects of life. Some of us have experienced similar (or worse) circumstances than those in New Orleans and didn't resort to lawless anarchy.

    OK, I've said enough. I hope that this disaster is brought under control in the next few days and we can refocus on cars. They're a lot more enjoyable to talk about.

    mcdelaug

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:I think it's amazing that you can sift through the media and still have a lot of common sense, RC. Do others on this board from Europe also believe that "it's Bush's fault"? Do you think we want people to suffer? C'mon.


    I think people here in Europe don't actually understand the full extent of the tragedy. I myself wouldn't have understood it if i haven't had read the related threads of ferrarichat (where the rightwingers are at least as bad as the left ones, and much more numerous) and here. And we're pretty jaded to floods&stuff, as we've had a lot of those here, too.

    But in general, yes, people around here consider the handling of the situation as very poor.
    The scenes of people firing at ambulances and rescue helicopters are unthinkable in this part of the world. No guns for the population = no shootings. A house can be very well defended with a heavy crowbar or club

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    eddie said:
    As to question on whether you are safer with your guns. Let me assure you that here in the UK, we have as much crime as everyone else. If an intruder breaks in and i attack him, then I am highly likely to be prosecuted for that and almost certainly having a gun would put me in a stronger position when confronting him. But therein lies the rub, if I can buy a gub for domestic personal use, so can he, and all of a sudden we have the dilemna that you raise.




    But if it was against the law to have a gun, you would turn yours in because you're a law abiding citizen. I can assure you that the criminal would not. Are you safer as a result?

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    eddie said:
    As to question on whether you are safer with your guns. Let me assure you that here in the UK, we have as much crime as everyone else. If an intruder breaks in and i attack him, then I am highly likely to be prosecuted for that and almost certainly having a gun would put me in a stronger position when confronting him. But therein lies the rub, if I can buy a gub for domestic personal use, so can he, and all of a sudden we have the dilemna that you raise.




    But if it was against the law to have a gun, you would turn yours in because you're a law abiding citizen. I can assure you that the criminal would not. Are you safer as a result?



    As far as I am concerned this theoretical point of "whether having guns in the hands of the public increases or decreases crime" has been answered with a social experiment. Here in Texas a "concealed carry" law was passed by the state legislature several years ago. After one takes a safety course and demonstrates some level of competence with a handgun, you are issued a permit to carry one, concealed, on your person. When this law was being debated, many people said that its passage would increase the crime rate, especially violent crimes committed using a handgun. But the opposite has been true. Some people also stated that this law would encourage "vigilante" type actions too, but this hasn't happened.

    I suspect there was a time when it was debated whether people should be allowed to drive a vehicle, with some feeling that such a powerful and potentially dangerous device should only be handled by professionals, etc.

    mcdelaug

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    eddie said:
    As to question on whether you are safer with your guns. Let me assure you that here in the UK, we have as much crime as everyone else. If an intruder breaks in and i attack him, then I am highly likely to be prosecuted for that and almost certainly having a gun would put me in a stronger position when confronting him. But therein lies the rub, if I can buy a gub for domestic personal use, so can he, and all of a sudden we have the dilemna that you raise.




    But if it was against the law to have a gun, you would turn yours in because you're a law abiding citizen. I can assure you that the criminal would not. Are you safer as a result?



    I thought those NwptBch/Coast gated communities were safe enough that one didn't think to want a gun to defend oneself?...guess you can't trust those rent-a-cops...

    Seriously, interesting that most people from places like Chicago's N Shore suburbs, NYC's Westchester/Fairfield suburbs, etc rarely express the need for guns to defend themselves(also note how few gated communities exist in those regions).

    Seems like it's often poorly zoned regions like LA, SF, Dall, Hou, Miami, etc where affluent people seem more threatened by crime.....perhaps more of a close juxtaposition of rich and poor in these regions, even in the 'burbs....

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:I think it's amazing that you can sift through the media and still have a lot of common sense, RC. Do others on this board from Europe also believe that "it's Bush's fault"? Do you think we want people to suffer? C'mon.


    I think people here in Europe don't actually understand the full extent of the tragedy. I myself wouldn't have understood it if i haven't had read the related threads of ferrarichat (where the rightwingers are at least as bad as the left ones, and much more numerous) and here. And we're pretty jaded to floods&stuff, as we've had a lot of those here, too.

    But in general, yes, people around here consider the handling of the situation as very poor.
    The scenes of people firing at ambulances and rescue helicopters are unthinkable in this part of the world. No guns for the population = no shootings. A house can be very well defended with a heavy crowbar or club



    Yeah, sure- if the perp only has a crowbar or club too.
    Don't bring a club to a gun fight! I've worked inside prisons for many years( max security too)- most people have no idea how treacherous some of these crooks can be.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    I hope folks consider that the media generally has a very strong propensity for amplifying the negatives and downplaying the positives in ANY situation. As they say: "If it bleeds, it leads." You have to do some work to get the whole story- don't rely solely on CNN, etc.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    mcdelaug said:
    I hadn't viewed this thread for a few days, since being in Houston we get a fair amount of news about this without rennteam "covering" it.

    Just a few thoughts of mine below.

    1-My brother and his family lived in New Orleans, but obeyed the mandatory evacuation and left the day before Katrina landed. Although he probably lost everything he left behind, he and his family are safe, living at my parents' home. While there are some people that lacked the resources to leave, many people that could have left thought they knew better and chose to stay.
    2-While there are some desperate people who have "looted" for basic necessities of life, like food and water, there are a number of people that have been taking advantage of a terrible situation. We've all heard about people stealing guns, ammunition, TVs (in a city without power?!). The attempted looting of the local hospitals and firing on rescue helicopters cannot be explained away as "desperation." It's simply a criminal lack of respect for the people that are trying to help. It's not excusable or justifiable under any circumstances.
    3- To a certain extent these problems are being exported to other areas. Even though the Houston Astrodome has been open to refugees only a few days, there have already been carjackings, car thefts, robberies and even assaults on the volunteer medical personnel. Again, this behavior cannot be excused or justified. It's simply driven by self-interest at the expense of everyone else.
    4- I am sure more could have been done earlier to reduce the suffering of New Orleans' residents, but the PRIMARY responsibility for disaster relief lies with the city and state governments. Obviously something this size will require federal intervention and Bush and his adminstration will have to take their share of culpability. If Bush ultimately determines that such an event falls under the jurisdiction of the Dept of Homeland Security, it seems like we aren't getting much for the billions we've spent.
    5- Frankly, the citizens of Baghdad seem more civilized than those of New Orleans. The Iraqis certainly have coped with a far more stressful environment for a much longer period of time with more poise and respect for one another.
    6- If I were Iran, I would see the lack of organization during this disaster as a "green light" to work 24/7 on creating a nuclear weapon. It appears the US lacks adequate administrative and logistical resources to deal with more than one problem at a time.
    7- Unless you are intimately familiar with someone's personal background, it is probably best not to make assumptions about what adversities they have overcome, and how they have formed their opinions about various aspects of life. Some of us have experienced similar (or worse) circumstances than those in New Orleans and didn't resort to lawless anarchy.

    OK, I've said enough. I hope that this disaster is brought under control in the next few days and we can refocus on cars. They're a lot more enjoyable to talk about.

    mcdelaug



    mcdelaug,

    Thank you for your post- informative! Glad to hear your family is safe! The city of Houston has been AWESOME. Your Mayor seems very impressive too!

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    SVNSVN said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:
    A house can be very well defended with a heavy crowbar or club


    Yeah, sure- if the perp only has a crowbar or club too.


    That's almost always the case in places where guns are banned. Most robberies are actually done without any weapon
    Only really dangerous criminals have guns, and those guys don't rob houses.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    The BS is getting deep!

    You'll find this link interesting.
    http://www.mcsm.org/kennesaw.html

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    SVNSVN said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:
    A house can be very well defended with a heavy crowbar or club


    Yeah, sure- if the perp only has a crowbar or club too.


    That's almost always the case in places where guns are banned. Most robberies are actually done without any weapon
    Only really dangerous criminals have guns, and those guys don't rob houses.



    Most, but not all, correct? And what would you rather have against a criminal who has a crowbar to defend your family with? Another crowbar? What, did you want to make it a fair fight or something? What if the criminal was physically bigger than you? I mean, with all due respect, brunner, you have a responsibility to protect your family and you want to do it without being armed? What's going to happen if he takes you out? What if it was two unarmed men who break into your house. Still feel confident with one crowbar? How confident? It better be 100% because you know what will happen if you fail.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    SVNSVN said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:
    A house can be very well defended with a heavy crowbar or club


    Yeah, sure- if the perp only has a crowbar or club too.


    That's almost always the case in places where guns are banned. Most robberies are actually done without any weapon
    Only really dangerous criminals have guns, and those guys don't rob houses.



    OK- maybe in your part of the world, but not here.
    BTW, Robbery: "the felonious taking of personal property...from his person or immediate presence, and against his will, accomplished by means of force or fear." It's common here that perps use a weapon, often a gun. I process numerous prison inmate files/cases everyday- I know what I'm talking about!

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    True, Alan- very good points( as usual )!

    Again, as they say, "don't bring a knife(club, etc.)to a gun fight." I want every advantage I can get.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    If all these childish and unthinking considerations are a reflection of the social and cultural organization that US, as the only superpower, is de facto proposing and sometimes imposing to the rest of the world, well : keep it, man !
    Fortunately, I know all americans are not so obtuse and contemptuous. The ones I met around the world when I was a wandering young man were most of the time generous, open minded, educated, curious, sometimes committed in social or humanitarian programs, and free enough to criticize their own government when necessary.
    Sometimes I would like to hear them speak a little louder, even here in an expensive sport car forum. Where are they ?
    To become old and rich enough to buy a Porsche doesn't mean inevitably to become stupid ?
    Am I wrong, chaps ?
    Could be the deadly question...

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Only really dangerous criminals have guns, and those guys don't rob houses.



    Most, but not all, correct? And what would you rather have against a criminal who has a crowbar to defend your family with? Another crowbar? What, did you want to make it a fair fight or something? What if the criminal was physically bigger than you?


    Valid points, but they're equally valid in your case. What if the criminal has an assault rifle, and you only got a pistol? What if they're two criminals, both armed, and you're alone?
    And when i think about it, a huge burglar unarmed will _probably_ only kick your ass, and you will live to see another day, but if an armed robber attacks you, you'd better get the first shot, otherwise you'll surely be dead.

    Bottom line, you get about the same level of protection (club vs club, gun vs gun), but the potential consequences are much more serious when guns are involved.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    SVNSVN said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Only really dangerous criminals have guns, and those guys don't rob houses.



    OK- maybe in your part of the world, but not here.
    BTW, Robbery: "the felonious taking of personal property...from his person or immediate presence, and against his will, accomplished by means of force or fear." It's common here that perps use a weapon, often a gun. I process numerous prison inmate files/cases everyday- I know what I'm talking about!


    You're right, but extrapolating, i presume it would've been the same situation there, too, if guns had been outlawed a long time ago.
    Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against guns themselves(used for recreational purposes, for example), i just don't believe in this guns=protection stuff. I believe a gun will only get _you_ killed if the stuff hits the fan.

    Anyway, we're getting too far away from the topic, let's save this for another time and thread

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Interesting how vast majority of super-rich in major US cities are without security details following them around in their car/at office&home/outside their kids' prep schools....one would think those w/resources would have professional, armed bodyguards surrounding them and their families if US cities are truly rife w/armed robberies/kidnappings/carjackings of the rich....

    Perhaps those in locations where guns seem necessary to defend against all these armed criminals should consider relocating....or stop believing everything they see/read in the media...

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Sounds good! We'll agree to disagree! Enough said on that...

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Sloppy...,

    R-E-L-A-X, please take a deep breath- we're just talking here. You seem awfully judgemental/ critical and arrogant.

    You originally attacked me for COMMENDING those doing good in the disaster, and attempting to contrast them with those who were not. If you carefully read my post, I was simply responding to the video and other posts regarding the looting. Again, sorry, I just have no tolerance for lawlessness, especially when most others seemed to be so noble!

    You don't know me ( or probably others on this board) well enough to know what my life experiences or situation is- so please refrain from projecting your issues/ biases on any of us. IMO, our diversity is what makes this forum so good!

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Interesting how vast majority of super-rich in major US cities are without security details following them around in their car/at office&home/outside their kids' prep schools....one would think those w/resources would have professional, armed bodyguards surrounding them and their families if US cities are truly rife w/armed robberies/kidnappings/carjackings of the rich....

    Perhaps those in locations where guns seem necessary to defend against all these armed criminals should consider relocating....or stop believing everything they see/read in the media...



    No, I think the point here is that the level of crime would increase if we "did away" with the right to bear arms.

    Here's a link to a good book, which I have in my bookshelf:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...ks&n=507846

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Interesting how vast majority of super-rich in major US cities are without security details following them around in their car/at office&home/outside their kids' prep schools....one would think those w/resources would have professional, armed bodyguards surrounding them and their families if US cities are truly rife w/armed robberies/kidnappings/carjackings of the rich....

    Perhaps those in locations where guns seem necessary to defend against all these armed criminals should consider relocating....or stop believing everything they see/read in the media...



    No, I think the point here is that the level of crime would increase if we "did away" with the right to bear arms.

    Here's a link to a good book, which I have in my bookshelf:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...ks&n=507846



    Perhaps I'm a simpleton, but having lived in NYC and SF as a "working-class" dude (and having spent much time in LA, Chic, etc) , can't say I've ever felt need/desire to be armed/been an armed crime victim/known an armed crime victim....I think common sense tells me which parts of urban/suburban regions to avoid...it just doesn't seem all that difficult to me...
    Also, when I talk to numerous colleagues who are affluent/more than just affluent, the issue of armed crime seems to be a non-issue....hell, even as much as I like to needle pals in LA (one of my favorite hedonist towns), LA's Westside has become almost "Leave It to Beaver"-like vs the LA riots of the early '90s and the supposedly common carjackings of the late '80s.....
    I've often looked at Atherton's amusing juxtaposition to Redwood City as a great case study...Atherton being one of world's richest towns...and RWC being...well...RWC....I know Atherton's police force is fairly vigilant about who's passing through their leafy town; the major residents have the resources to quickly escape on their planes if RWC rioted, yet the vast majority of Atherton's titans don't have security details surrounding them, and I suspect most wouldn't be particularly adept in using a firearm anyway.....golf clubs, maybe...
    Personally, don't really care if people have/don't have right to bear arms.....seems to me issue of armed crime vs affluent is deminimus in US and relatively easily avoidable w/common sense preventive strategies/tactics....
    Do you feel unsafe enough in NwptBch/Coast where you need arms to defend yourself? Or do you just like to have freedom to be "hands-on" re: your defense in any rare contingency where some of less affluent non-coastal OC chooses to riot, ala LA of early '90s?

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    A gun is a great equalizer. Guns are used thousands of times daily in the US to prevent crime from being commited by merely being presented by the would be victims to stop robberies, carjackings, and rapes. I believe people should have the freedom to choose what they want to do for their safty. If you chose not to bear arms, fine. Do not own a gun. Better yet. Put a sign in your front yard stating what you believe. For those who choose to protect their love ones with guns, they can also do what they choose to do. I believe the fact that the rate of break-ins is not higher than what it is now is because the criminals do not know which house is armed and which is not. The same applies to conceal carry situation. The criminals do not know which target is a easy one. The armed households and individules are in fact protecting the unarmed. So, there is nothing to debate. Do whatever you what to do. Do not dictate others what to do.

    I do know criminals like to use guns regardless what you decide on having guns or not. By definition, they are not law abiding citizens. The do not care if the law allows them to own or use guns against anyone.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Interesting how vast majority of super-rich in major US cities are without security details following them around in their car/at office&home/outside their kids' prep schools....one would think those w/resources would have professional, armed bodyguards surrounding them and their families if US cities are truly rife w/armed robberies/kidnappings/carjackings of the rich....

    Perhaps those in locations where guns seem necessary to defend against all these armed criminals should consider relocating....or stop believing everything they see/read in the media...



    No, I think the point here is that the level of crime would increase if we "did away" with the right to bear arms.

    Here's a link to a good book, which I have in my bookshelf:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...ks&n=507846



    Perhaps I'm a simpleton, but having lived in NYC and SF as a "working-class" dude (and having spent much time in LA, Chic, etc) , can't say I've ever felt need/desire to be armed/been an armed crime victim/known an armed crime victim....I think common sense tells me which parts of urban/suburban regions to avoid...it just doesn't seem all that difficult to me...
    Also, when I talk to numerous colleagues who are affluent/more than just affluent, the issue of armed crime seems to be a non-issue....hell, even as much as I like to needle pals in LA (one of my favorite hedonist towns), LA's Westside has become almost "Leave It to Beaver"-like vs the LA riots of the early '90s and the supposedly common carjackings of the late '80s.....
    I've often looked at Atherton's amusing juxtaposition to Redwood City as a great case study...Atherton being one of world's richest towns...and RWC being...well...RWC....I know Atherton's police force is fairly vigilant about who's passing through their leafy town; the major residents have the resources to quickly escape on their planes if RWC rioted, yet the vast majority of Atherton's titans don't have security details surrounding them, and I suspect most wouldn't be particularly adept in using a firearm anyway.....golf clubs, maybe...
    Personally, don't really care if people have/don't have right to bear arms.....seems to me issue of armed crime vs affluent is deminimus in US and relatively easily avoidable w/common sense preventive strategies/tactics....
    Do you feel unsafe enough in NwptBch/Coast where you need arms to defend yourself? Or do you just like to have freedom to be "hands-on" re: your defense in any rare contingency where some of less affluent non-coastal OC chooses to riot, ala LA of early '90s?



    I tell you what, VK. I'll spare the rest of the forum my views on gun control for now and next time you want to play golf, send me a PM and we'll go play a round of golf and we'll talk cars, guns, and politics. And Hooters.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    SVNSVN said:
    Sloppy...,

    R-E-L-A-X, please take a deep breath- we're just talking here. You seem awfully judgemental/ critical and arrogant.



    I said some comments here were stupid and childish.
    If that is awfully judgemental/critical and arrogant, how would you qualify to treat somebody as an "excrement" ?
    And who needs to R-E-L-A-X ?
    I'm afraid you don't hear what you say !
    But you're right, I need to take a deep breath : this thread about a natural disaster has consciously or unconsciously turned into a thread about self-defence and guns. Beside crowded out prisons, maybe a still more radical solution for social disparities ?
    From a natural disaster to an human disaster...
    Fascist, and pathetic.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    sloppy cartouche said:
    Quote:
    SVNSVN said:
    Sloppy...,

    R-E-L-A-X, please take a deep breath- we're just talking here. You seem awfully judgemental/ critical and arrogant.



    I said some comments here were stupid and childish.
    If that is awfully judgemental/critical and arrogant, how would you qualify to treat somebody as an "excrement" ?
    And who needs to R-E-L-A-X ?
    I'm afraid you don't hear what you say !
    But you're right, I need to take a deep breath : this thread about a natural disaster has consciously or unconsciously turned into a thread about self-defence and guns. Beside crowded out prisons, maybe a still more radical solution for social disparities ?
    From a natural disaster to an human disaster...
    Fascist, and pathetic.



    What's your solution? More socialism? No thanks, I don't prefer to be more of a slave to the goverment than I already am. And don't call us fascist or I'll start calling you names.

    Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

    Quote:
    sloppy cartouche said:
    Quote:
    SVNSVN said:
    Sloppy...,

    R-E-L-A-X, please take a deep breath- we're just talking here. You seem awfully judgemental/ critical and arrogant.



    I said some comments here were stupid and childish.
    If that is awfully judgemental/critical and arrogant, how would you qualify to treat somebody as an "excrement" ?
    And who needs to R-E-L-A-X ?
    I'm afraid you don't hear what you say !
    But you're right, I need to take a deep breath : this thread about a natural disaster has consciously or unconsciously turned into a thread about self-defence and guns. Beside crowded out prisons, maybe a still more radical solution for social disparities ?
    From a natural disaster to an human disaster...
    Fascist, and pathetic.



    I was referring to those individuals who were looting,raping, murdering shooting at 1st responders, etc. Just venting in context of this thread/prior posts. Was I a bit too harsh? NO! Sorry, man, it really makes me mad to see people take advantage like that. I think you should perhaps direct your frustration and anger at those folks rather than at me and other law abiding Americans who support( through financial and other means) and have the disaster victims in our thoughts and prayers.

    Oh, and what would you call my many relatives who fought to liberate Europe? As I, and another rennteamer has said, you don't know our life situation and experiences... So be careful with your reckless name calling!

     
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