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    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:

    I would rather change Bruni for Lotterer

    I like Bruni very much but age, yes. Great pilot, possibly my favorite among all gt drivers. He deserves to win Le Mans.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:

     

    No need to suspect, pics are taken at Weissach. This is the car coming around the big sweeper 180 at the end of the back straight. 


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    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Confirmation.

    https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/porsche-audi-twin-turbo-v8-lmdh/7645033/

    Weird that they bring the redline all the way to 10,000rpm when the most powerful version of the corporate V8 already making 650hp @6,800rpm, 480kW, same as max spec per LMDh, as they are kept at 520kW for Le Mans 24hrs when adding the 40kW hybrid system. Bringing the redline to 10,000rpm means almost 50% additional revs. 

    I believe they are dropping the displacement, maybe to 3.5L or even 3.0L and regain the lost hp via revs. Low end torque aren't needed in a race engine when the cars will be spending most of their time on track at the upper end of the rev range. 

     


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    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Whoopsy:

    Confirmation.

    https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/porsche-audi-twin-turbo-v8-lmdh/7645033/

    Weird that they bring the redline all the way to 10,000rpm when the most powerful version of the corporate V8 already making 650hp @6,800rpm, 480kW, same as max spec per LMDh, as they are kept at 520kW for Le Mans 24hrs when adding the 40kW hybrid system. Bringing the redline to 10,000rpm means almost 50% additional revs. 

    I believe they are dropping the displacement, maybe to 3.5L or even 3.0L and regain the lost hp via revs. Low end torque aren't needed in a race engine when the cars will be spending most of their time on track at the upper end of the rev range. 

     

    It seems there will be no 10k rpm. It is the digit that is prescribed by the rules. 3l is extreme downsizing compared to 4l (by regs afaik) the block must be serial or serial derived.

    Simply 700 hp (which is the peak by regs) is too low for 4 l rwin turbo that revs up to 10k. With such a config there are all 1500hp


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    These are figures from regs

    Engine regulations allow a great deal of freedom

    The engine regulations for the LMDh vehicle class allow a great deal of freedom in terms of displacement, design and number of cylinders. Maximum revs are 10,000 rpm, with the pass-by noise measurement capped at 110 decibels. The engine must weigh a minimum of 180 kilograms, including the air supply and exhaust system as well as the peripheral cooling components. If used, this weight also incorporates the turbocharger/s including the charge air cooling. In line with the regulations, the maximum output lies between 480 and 520 kW (653 to 707 PS). This range also allows adjustments to be made within the Balance of Performance (BoP) parameters, which are intended to ensure parity between all competing LMDh racing cars.

    Newsroom.porsche.com


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Whoopsy:
    Spyderidol:

     

    No need to suspect, pics are taken at Weissach. This is the car coming around the big sweeper 180 at the end of the back straight. 

    My suspicion was not related to whether it was Weissach or not. It is clear that it is Weissach. My suspicions revolved around whether these were actual Testing pictures or whether they were from the roll-out. 


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Some rear config exam

    HMBcXtEMPHk.jpeg


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    This paint is the pain the -ss. Very wide front arches

    qpwc7rNY.jpeg


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:
    Whoopsy:
    Spyderidol:

     

    No need to suspect, pics are taken at Weissach. This is the car coming around the big sweeper 180 at the end of the back straight. 

    My suspicion was not related to whether it was Weissach or not. It is clear that it is Weissach. My suspicions revolved around whether these were actual Testing pictures or whether they were from the roll-out. 

     

    Nah, these are from the roll out with factory photographers. As far as I know they haven't gone to an actual test track yet. 

    There are only so many tracks around the world that's warm enough to get some testing done right now. And they won't go fly them out far yet. So the usual suspects around the Mediterranean. 


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    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Whoopsy:
    Spyderidol:
    Whoopsy:
    Spyderidol:

     

    No need to suspect, pics are taken at Weissach. This is the car coming around the big sweeper 180 at the end of the back straight. 

    My suspicion was not related to whether it was Weissach or not. It is clear that it is Weissach. My suspicions revolved around whether these were actual Testing pictures or whether they were from the roll-out. 

     

    Nah, these are from the roll out with factory photographers. As far as I know they haven't gone to an actual test track yet. 

    There are only so many tracks around the world that's warm enough to get some testing done right now. And they won't go fly them out far yet. So the usual suspects around the Mediterranean. 

    So..then you and I agree that these photos are most likely from the roll-out.

    As for Testing on a real track: Peugeot has just been testing in Spain (Aragon), a track that is also used by Porsche.

    It is possible that they are currently there testing (under wraps) , but it is unlikely as we would have gotten pictures of the motorhomes and trucks if that were the case.

    In all likelihood, Porsche is still testing at Flacht , but those pictures are not from the actual testing. 

    Also - It is likely that the car is now in its carbon livery and has forgone this "camouflaged" wrap, and that is most likely why we don't have actual pictures from testing. Porsche is not yet ready to reveal many details of the bodywork.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Yes, we are in complete agreement.

    As far as I know, some team personal are still where they are supposed to be this past week, so no one left to go somewhere.

     


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    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Well , I hope this car has more success than Porsche's venture into Formula E. It is pitiful!

    They need to knock that venture on its head and close down that operation before it destroys all of Porsches racing cred.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:

    Well , I hope this car has more success than Porsche's venture into Formula E. It is pitiful!

    They need to knock that venture on its head and close down that operation before it destroys all of Porsches racing cred.

     

    Formula E is really just a show, not real racing. 

    I had been to races, and also on the other side of the pit wall.

    It really was just a show, nothing more.

    It isn't won by the 'best car', or the 'best driver', it's the 'luckiest' driver that wins every race.

    Porsche is stuck racing Formula E, VAG needs to show it 'cares' for electric stuff, and with Audi off Porsche is stuck staying. I mean, Porsche really has won everything that it wanted to win, if they get lucky and win Formula E, next up would be them pulling out. 

    At least it doesn't really cost them too much staying in Formula E. Chump change compared to their other racing efforts. It mostly is a spec championship, there is nothing to gain by any 'manufacturer'. One of the biggest problem with Formula E. Everything that's important to racing is spec-ed. 

    Seriously, the tires the cars ran? They are worse than Cup 2s. 

     


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    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    My apologies. I'm from a time that Porsche wanted to win every race/championship it entered. I'm having a hard time getting my head around virtue signaling and climate change emergencies.

    I long for the old Porsche corporate culture. 

    Anyway, what do I know. I'm just an old fart.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:

    Well , I hope this car has more success than Porsche's venture into Formula E. It is pitiful!

    They need to knock that venture on its head and close down that operation before it destroys all of Porsches racing cred.

    Merc is much much sucessful in e, and porsche, very strange, seems is not able to get any success. But does it harm porsche cred? - possibly no, f e is not considered as racing. More like festival and moving circus of uglies.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    FE may not be considered real racing by us Petrol Heads, but to the public in general and to the virtue signalers and  those that live in fear of the sky falling, the difference is undetectable.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    In fact, Porsche should take some lessons from their pitiful participation in the series. The more the series is spec, the more Porsche will struggle. It gives up its competitive advantage (innovation, engineering excellence).

    LMDH is partially spec, and I feel that there is cause to worry.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:

    FE may not be considered real racing by us Petrol Heads, but to the public in general and to the virtue signalers and  those that live in fear of the sky falling, the difference is undetectable.

    I understand your fears, however I have a strong feeling that interest in fe is falling down. When merc won last year I havent seen any marketing advantage from it, even merc itself was very silent about it. The interest in fe is falling down, those who are not petrolheads, but like autosport are more in F1 and nothing more.

    What I fear most and I have to say - some people inside autosport, mostly engineers fear that with ev Porsche, and Germany overall could loose its competencies they developed for more than 100 years. That is real fear. EV is very bad thing for traditional manufacturers and very good for, f.e. chinese new companies who has 0 experience in car manufacturing, but have no luggage of heritage, factories and supply chains what let them be much more agile in new mobility age. 


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:

    In fact, Porsche should take some lessons from their pitiful participation in the series. The more the series is spec, the more Porsche will struggle. It gives up its competitive advantage (innovation, engineering excellence).

    LMDH is partially spec, and I feel that there is cause to worry.

    Lmdh is half spec ;) however lets admit that the only thing porsche will share with other lmdh - e machine and battery. Chassis - yes its multimatic, but porsche is monopolist of multimatic lmdh department, so they can build how they want, they even put their people inside multimatic. Engine - pure porsche. So, there are enough of things to be different. Fe - no. Total spec, the input from manufacturer is the label and some variables in e machine composition. The pure pace (without the human factor) is so close that i would call it the difference like dallara dw12 from penske, gannasi or coyne racing)))


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:

    My apologies. I'm from a time that Porsche wanted to win every race/championship it entered. I'm having a hard time getting my head around virtue signaling and climate change emergencies.

    I long for the old Porsche corporate culture. 

    Anyway, what do I know. I'm just an old fart.

     

    I mean sure they want to win too, Audi did it already. But with the series been about luck more than anything, Porsche don't have control over that. Look no farther than the gimmicky 'FanBoost' feature.

    They have the drivers to do it, it's not like they are filing some unknown 5th stringers there.


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    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    What an exciting finish at the Daytona 24. 

    2 factory Porsche drivers on two different team duke it out on the last lap for GTD Pro class. Well these two cars was basically battling for the whole 24 hours. 

    Happy for Pfaff to win it all. But then again they and Porsche stacked their driver lineup......Jaminet, Nasr and Campbell. They had to shovel their regular Rubichon to Wright Racing in GTD. 

    Not that KCMG didn't stack their lineup either....Vanthoor, Pilet and Olsen.

    in GTD, Wright Racing also won for Porsche, so a clean sweep for Porsche in the 2 GT classes.

     

     


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    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Missed the race, watched the last porsche battle. Nice, but its gt. Wait for 2023.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Whoopsy:

    What an exciting finish at the Daytona 24. 

    2 factory Porsche drivers on two different team duke it out on the last lap for GTD Pro class. Well these two cars was basically battling for the whole 24 hours. 

    Happy for Pfaff to win it all. But then again they and Porsche stacked their driver lineup......Jaminet, Nasr and Campbell. They had to shovel their regular Rubichon to Wright Racing in GTD. 

    Not that KCMG didn't stack their lineup either....Vanthoor, Pilet and Olsen.

    in GTD, Wright Racing also won for Porsche, so a clean sweep for Porsche in the 2 GT classes.

     

     

    This is what happens when Porsche does not give up its competitive advantage. The cars are BoP'ed, but no spec parts.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Hahahaha, my drawings were precise)))))


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:

    Well , I hope this car has more success than Porsche's venture into Formula E. It is pitiful!

    They need to knock that venture on its head and close down that operation before it destroys all of Porsches racing cred.

    Porsche won for the first time in Formula E last Saturday in Mexico in a 1-2 finish. Wehrlein ahead of Lotterer.

    I am not a friend of the electrification of private vehicles and I don't enjoy Formula E as much as other forms of motorsport. But I hope Porsche start making their mark on the FE series, too.

     


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    reginos:
    Spyderidol:

    Well , I hope this car has more success than Porsche's venture into Formula E. It is pitiful!

    They need to knock that venture on its head and close down that operation before it destroys all of Porsches racing cred.

    Porsche won for the first time in Formula E last Saturday in Mexico in a 1-2 finish. Wehrlein ahead of Lotterer.

    I am not a friend of the electrification of private vehicles and I don't enjoy Formula E as much as other forms of motorsport. But I hope Porsche start making their mark on the FE series, too.

     

    They did have the perfect strategy call. Gunning for 40 laps to get others to be down on energy. Gusty move.

    Imagine Williams doing the same thing in F1. Merc ran out of fuel and also Lewis and Charles and Nando also. Porsche at Formula E is like Williams or Haas at F1.

    They aren't even close to being the top teams.


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    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Whoopsy:
    reginos:
    Spyderidol:

    Well , I hope this car has more success than Porsche's venture into Formula E. It is pitiful!

    They need to knock that venture on its head and close down that operation before it destroys all of Porsches racing cred.

    Porsche won for the first time in Formula E last Saturday in Mexico in a 1-2 finish. Wehrlein ahead of Lotterer.

    I am not a friend of the electrification of private vehicles and I don't enjoy Formula E as much as other forms of motorsport. But I hope Porsche start making their mark on the FE series, too.

     

    They did have the perfect strategy call. Gunning for 40 laps to get others to be down on energy. Gusty move.

    Imagine Williams doing the same thing in F1. Merc ran out of fuel and also Lewis and Charles and Nando also. Porsche at Formula E is like Williams or Haas at F1.

    They aren't even close to being the top teams.

    So you say the Mexico result was an one-off, unfortunately Smiley

    I haven't followed the FE series closely. What are the major parameters for winning in  FE racing? The chassis is standardized and the motors and batteries cannot differ much, I guess? So, what makes the difference besides driver ability and strategies?


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    reginos:
    Spyderidol:

    Well , I hope this car has more success than Porsche's venture into Formula E. It is pitiful!

    They need to knock that venture on its head and close down that operation before it destroys all of Porsches racing cred.

    Porsche won for the first time in Formula E last Saturday in Mexico in a 1-2 finish. Wehrlein ahead of Lotterer.

    I am not a friend of the electrification of private vehicles and I don't enjoy Formula E as much as other forms of motorsport. But I hope Porsche start making their mark on the FE series, too.

     

    Yes, I followed it. I should have criticized them earlier!Smiley

    Lets not celebrate just yet. They have been quite good at that track in the past. Lets see how they do in the next races.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    reginos:
    Whoopsy:
    reginos:
    Spyderidol:

    Well , I hope this car has more success than Porsche's venture into Formula E. It is pitiful!

    They need to knock that venture on its head and close down that operation before it destroys all of Porsches racing cred.

    Porsche won for the first time in Formula E last Saturday in Mexico in a 1-2 finish. Wehrlein ahead of Lotterer.

    I am not a friend of the electrification of private vehicles and I don't enjoy Formula E as much as other forms of motorsport. But I hope Porsche start making their mark on the FE series, too.

     

    They did have the perfect strategy call. Gunning for 40 laps to get others to be down on energy. Gusty move.

    Imagine Williams doing the same thing in F1. Merc ran out of fuel and also Lewis and Charles and Nando also. Porsche at Formula E is like Williams or Haas at F1.

    They aren't even close to being the top teams.

    So you say the Mexico result was an one-off, unfortunately Smiley

    I haven't followed the FE series closely. What are the major parameters for winning in  FE racing? The chassis is standardized and the motors and batteries cannot differ much, I guess? So, what makes the difference besides driver ability and strategies?

    Right now, it is a one off. They need to win a few more in order to proof they didn't just got lucky. 

    As for your second sentence, luck. They have this thing called fan boost where fans voted to have one driver get extra power. 


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