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    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Alonso drove that Ferrari 110%, classifying it a step above what the car deserved, and consistently in all types of situations, as only Alonso could do, that is what Ferrari payed for, and almost grabbed a championship against all odds against the dominating RBR. And for the new McLaren it is just what they needed, and why they were willing to pay that much for, unfortunately Honda dropped the ball with the engine to embarrasing levels in F1 that the car in not only 100HP down but it doesn't even finish the races. But like I said, I guess you know better than the pros at Ferrari and McLaren, if only you would have been in charge...


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Thank you Frank for the Alonso-Hamilton article.

    In 2007 I was not the avid follower I am now so that piece of history is very interesting.

    David


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Carlos from Spain:

    Alonso drove that Ferrari 110%, classifying it a step above what the car deserved, and consistently in all types of situations, as only Alonso could do, that is what Ferrari payed for, and almost grabbed a championship against all odds against the dominating RBR. And for the new McLaren it is just what they needed, and why they were willing to pay that much for, unfortunately Honda dropped the ball with the engine to embarrasing levels in F1 that the car in not only 100HP down but it doesn't even finish the races. But like I said, I guess you know better than the pros at Ferrari and McLaren, if only you would have been in charge...

    "Everything is judged by the result"

    I read that Fernando Alonso was made an honourary member of Real Madrid last week. He received something for this year Smiley

    Good luck to him for the 2018 season. It would be nice to see him fighting for the championship again Smiley

     


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    DJM48:

    Thank you Frank for the Alonso-Hamilton article.

    In 2007 I was not the avid follower I am now so that piece of history is very interesting.

    David

    Smiley


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    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Porsche considering a F1 engine program for 2021

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131653/porsche-considering-2021-f1-engine-programme

    I wish we could see a McLaren with a Porsche engine again after almost 40 years but of course this won't be possible since McLaren have also become competing road car manufacturers.

    Having said that, McLaren would have been more respectable in F1 and this would reflect positively on their road car business if they raced with their own F1 engine. It is too degrading for a super sportscar manufacturer to race with the engines of lesser brands like Honda or Renault.


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    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:
    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:
     

    We cannot do an "as if" analysis and guess what Alonso and the rest could have done in different car. This is a very hypothetical, abstract and speculative exercise which is open to arbitrary conclusions.

    Then to say that Ham is the star of its era without knowing what the other top drivers could have done in the same car is just as an arbitrary a conclusion, just as hypothetical, abstract and speculative. You can't have it both ways.

    What kind of sophism is this? Smiley

    What we have been experiencing in GP racing is some kind of virtual reality and I don't know it?

    We make conclusions by what has actually happened and what is happening in front of us. Real life has elevated  Hamilton and not some sort of hypothetical wishful thinking.

    Logic 101. If you claim that you cannot say that other drivers are better than Ham in his car because they haven't raced in his car and its just speculation, then you cannot claim that Ham is better because... "they haven't raced in his car and its just speculation". 

    What we have seen is that one driver is winning in a car far ahead of the rest of the grid, period. Saying Ham is the star of his ear because of that is wishful thinking, not to mention that in that case Vettel would be the star of this era given his titles with the RBR and we all know he is far from it.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    C'mon Carlos, I was expecting something much better from you. If winning with the best car is that easy, Mercs wont be paying Ham the £60m or whatever he is demanding, they might as well go for the likes of Pastor Maldonado or Paul Diresta for a much more cheaper price. 

    What am I try to say here, yes the car gives a bit of an advantage but if the driver is not good enough to handle the car then its a complete waste Smiley


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    In what is essentially a one driver championship thanks to the car difference, when at least any of the top five of the grid is good enough for the job, like a Rosberg, then that achievement is far from the comment of "Ham is the star of its era" just because he is winning on a Merc which is what I objected to.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Hamilton didn't just suddenly land in a Mercedes F1 car out of good fortune!

    He was a star from the age of 11 when he was 'adopted" by Ron Dennis.

    At 15 he was European Karting champion with maximum points.

    He cruised through Formula Renault, F3 Euro series and GP2 winning all of the three with conspicuous ease.

    He had a record breaking rookie year with McLaren in 2007 and went on to win the drivers' title as the youngest-ever world champion in 2008

    During the bad patch of McLaren until 2012 he won another 12 races.

    His excellent "palmarès"  caught the eyes of the new F1 force, Mercedes and the attention of Lauda and he was picked as the star driver of the field to drive the car of this ambitious automotive giant.

    Mercedes with their financial ability could have engaged anyone else including Alonso or Vettel, but they didn't probably seeing weaknesses in their driving and/or their personalities.

    He has delivered and he is still delivering for Mercedes...and I expect a fourth crown this year.

    Hamilton drives the best car by the right he acquired as the best driver.

     


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    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Alonso was supposed to be the star in his era, that's why Ferrari paid him big bucks to drive for them. 

    But Ferrari had enough of his whining, and they parted way and at the same time McLaren-Honda paid him big bucks to drive for them, with the promise from Honda that their engine will be good with their past history in F1. Well we all know that promise didn't quite worked out.........

    Every year there will be a team or 2 that's clearly better than the rest, and it may not be the big manufacturers, remember the Williams? Of course drivers of those cars will have a preset advantage. But teams with the superior cars will also want a superior drivers to drive their cars, naturally the best drivers will be courted. Hence how Hamilton ended up at Mercedes. Ferrari thought they had the best when they signed Alonso, but since that didn't worked out chemistry wise, they went with Vettel. 

    Alonso didn't do himself any favour when he clashed with Hamilton during the McLaren years. Yes he was suppose to be a #1 driver there and the rookie Hamilton was suppose to be his supporting #2, that's was the original plan, but when Hamilton showed clearly that he was superior to Alonso, AND the fact that Hamilton was a team player and doesn't whine, Ron Dennis of course would take his side for the sake of the team. 

    I can certainly see Alonso have a couple years of competitive run left in him, he is still good enough, but he needed to change his whiny personality and become a team driver. With Ferrari and Mercedes out of the market, maybe he should court Williams. The Williams are quite fast after all and he might have a chance. 


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    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Whoopsy:

     

    Every year there will be a team or 2 that's clearly better than the rest, and it may not be the big manufacturers, remember the Williams? ... But teams with the superior cars will also want a superior drivers to drive their cars, naturally the best drivers will be courted.  

    That's why - in the end - one just has to look at the number of titles won. The best drivers in history will be those who won most titles. Everything else is highly subjective Smiley


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Whoopsy:

    , AND the fact that Hamilton was a team player and doesn't whine, Ron Dennis of course would take his side for the sake of the team. 

    This was by far the best comment on this thread

    https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2016/nov/27/lewis-hamilton-disciplinary-action-mercedes-abu-dhabi-f1-grand-prix

    ask his previous teammates he good a teammate he is and how he whined the entire season about Merc and Rosberg... Who ended up beating him anyway.

    We all have our favorites but none of these two drivers are angels, most in F1 aren't, such is the nature of F1 compared to other sports, only a few (usually less successful) are nice guys like Webber or Button.

    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Isn't that the case in life generally? 


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Carlos from Spain:
    Whoopsy:

    , AND the fact that Hamilton was a team player and doesn't whine, Ron Dennis of course would take his side for the sake of the team. 

    This was by far the best comment on this thread

    https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2016/nov/27/lewis-hamilton-disciplinary-action-mercedes-abu-dhabi-f1-grand-prix

    ask his previous teammates he good a teammate he is and how he whined the entire season about Merc and Rosberg... Who ended up beating him anyway.

    We all have our favorites but none of these two drivers are angels, most in F1 aren't, such is the nature of F1 compared to other sports, only a few (usually less successful) are nice guys like Webber or Button.

    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    Nico lucked out when Hamilton's engine blew up while leading Malaysian GP. It was luck that gifted the 2016 championship to Nico and he knew that and that's why he quit.

    Carlos, you are a Spaniard, you will of course be on the side of a fellow Spaniard Alonso, and consider his history with Hamilton during the McLaren years, it is very understandable that you will never like Hamilton. It's ok, one can never take off coloured glasses that way.

    There are no GP drivers from HK, so I really don't have a build in favourite. My first was Senna, a Brazilian, simply the best ever and no equal in his car control skills. 2nd favourite was Schumacher, a German, I loved his ruthless style, do anything to win, he won't accept losing. 3rd favourite was Jacque Villeneuve, a fellow Canadian, a friend, so yeah, of course I was biased towards him back then, but since he raced in pretty much the same era as Schumacher, and he ended up with not so competitive cars, I wasn't cheering much for him to win. I loved the dominant way Ferrari/Schumacher combo, basically winning everything was fun to watch. 

    My 4th and current favourite is Hamilton, a Brit. (See the difference? I cheered for 4 different drivers from 4 different nations) He is just so talented and skilled. Car control is 2nd to none for the current crop of drivers, not as entertaining on the radio as Kimi but that's ok. 

     


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    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Alonso is a supernice & funny guy......

    IMG_6491.JPG

     

     


    Re: 2017 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    IMG_6577.JPG


     
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