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    PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    The big day is here.  I found a set of PSS10 shocks for $1900 and snapped them up last week. 

    NO MORE PASM!  Yeah!  They will be on by the end of the day.  Going for the 20mm ride height (Easy has always talked about his 20mm set-up and that has me determined to try it for starters.)

    Thursday is another drive to Montreal, straight through, 1400 miles!  My favorite activity.


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Damn 1400 miles in one day or go! And that with your relative slow cruising speed smiley Seriously, hats off kiss


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    I have done the drive dozens of times.  The highways are generally wide open when I go (at night) and I AVERAGE 78-80 mpg for 19 hours.  My total stopped time for three fuel stops has been as little as 13 minutes.  Thinking about documenting this trip with pictures along the way. 

    I had some PSS9 on my 996 and loved them!!  transforms the car.  The stock shocks are totally worn out - crap if you ask me.   Looking forward to the long drive with the new suspension.

    Will post pictures later tonight if they finish with the car in time.

     


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Fantastic!

    Let us know how you like them, and what settings you used.  I think you can reach the adjustment without jacking or lifting right? 

    On such a long trip, you could change up at each refuel/pit stop, and really get a strong opinion of the possibilities!

    Enjoy!!


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Leawood911:

    The big day is here.  I found a set of PSS10 shocks for $1900 and snapped them up last week. 

    NO MORE PASM!  Yeah!  They will be on by the end of the day.  Going for the 20mm ride height (Easy has always talked about his 20mm set-up and that has me determined to try it for starters.)

    Thursday is another drive to Montreal, straight through, 1400 miles!  My favorite activity.

    Excellent! Smiley I had PSS10 on my 997.1 4S and they are true quality. Will transform your car. I had mine 25mm lowered compared to PASM. Which version did you get? Standard or Club Sport?

    I would recommend to change the anti-roll bars too. Pick up a pair from H&R. You should find them on eBay.


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    DaveW - I will be coming thru Ohio - the troopers in Ohio don't screw around! I always slow down and it seems they have radar emitters that constantly make my Valentine go off.  Don't think they actually write tickets, just sending out the interference.  Do you know anything about this?

    Not certain if these are the sport or regular.  Just happy to disconnect the PASM and have excellent shocks vs the cheap stock ones.

    I know it will be a blast to drive and make a world of difference for the old car.


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Leawood911:

    Not certain if these are the sport or regular.  Just happy to disconnect the PASM and have excellent shocks vs the cheap stock ones.

    I know it will be a blast to drive and make a world of difference for the old car.

    Ok. Yes, will for sure make a huge difference. PASM on/off should still work though, right? Or did you get the ones without Damptronic?


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Bluelines -

    No Damptronics!!!  The PASM functions will be disabled - NO more PASM switch.  Manual setting only via the 10 clicks on the shocks - like it should be.  This was the whole point, no more second guessing what the friggin suspension was going to do.  There is a darn good reason why the Boxter RS and Cayman RS had standard shocks and NOT PASM.  Won't find PASM on an RSR either.

    Don't even get me started on the 991 active roll bars, electronic steering, electronic parking brake, park assist, on and on.

    Wish I still had one of my old 84's with the torsion bar suspension - miss the old days.


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Fair enough indecision But you cannot compare standard PASM shocks with PSS10 Damptronics shocks. They are in a different league and the normal/sport mode worked really well with the PSS10. Significantly stiffer though, Damptronics normal mode felt like PASM sport mode. Not sure where the non-Damptronics are in stiffness, but probably depends on regular or club sport version.

    I got "non-PASM" H&R coil-overs on the 987.1 and they are truly excellent. I did change to stiffer H&R anti-roll bars too. Drives like a Go-Kart now.

    Having said that, the -20mm Sport PASM on the 997.2 was a huge leap forward. Very close to the famous 997.1 -20mm Sport Suspension, but with the added benefit of normal and sport mode. There is only a tad too much roll on the track so I am thinking about changing to stiffer anti-roll bars. The shocks I won't touch because they feel close to PSS10 quality.


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    I haven't seen police intentionally transmitting without ticketing myself, but I do agree that Ohio seems to be pretty serious when it comes to interstate revenue generation opportunities.  I have seen police set up at as many as 8 consecutive U-turn points along I-75; and this was not on a holiday weekend either, just very near their "end of the month" quota period.  They look like bears lined up along the rapids during salmon spawning.

    Hope you enjoy your trip.  It seems like quite a haul for a continuous run!  If you come through Cincinnati and want to break it up a little, let me know!

     

     


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Leawood911:

     

    I had some PSS9 on my 996 and loved them!!  transforms the car.  The stock shocks are totally worn out - crap if you ask me.  

     

    I had them on my 996 C4S and loved them too. Smiley


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Just a question, as you seem to enjoy the advantages of great damping, have you ever thought about the less conventional high-end dampers like Öhlins/Exe-tc/Intrax/...?

    I assume they're in a class of their own (also regarding price), which I think you would probably enjoy. I recall comparing a Lotus Exige with Öhlins dampers compared to one with standard (I think Bilstein) shocks, the difference was like night and day, the fluidity and body control was out of this world.

    I have KW V3 Clubsport on my own car, and while I really enjoy these dampers, especially on track, I feel there's a lot of room for improvement compared with the delicacy of the Öhlins dampers, I wonder if you've ever experienced the same coming from the Bilsteins.


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    I hate the PASM in the 997, too! So - very curious about your experience after change!

    And yes .... take some pictures of that road-trip, sounds great!!!


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Great - looking forward to hearing about your impressions on the new suspension set up in more detail.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Lars997:

    I hate the PASM in the 997, too! So - very curious about your experience after change!

    I don't think PASM is the problem, that is just Porsche's name for the Damptronic technology they developed together with Bilstein. It is the shocks and springs that are the problem. Mass produced to fit a broad clientele. A set of PSS10 Damptronics will sort that out, speaking from my own experience with a 997.1 Turbo and a 997.1 CS4. Like night and day.

    Öhlins, Intrax, etc. are definitely a class above the PSS10, both in performance and price Smiley I doubt it makes much sense to spend that money unless the car is used mainly (or only) for track driving. For the street I believe it is an overkill. If you decide to spend that money anyway then I would replace the all suspension components with proper adjustable anti-roll bars, control arms, rear and toe links, bushings, etc. from RSS or Tarett. The stock components are no match to Öhlins or Intrax. But now we are talking serious money.


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Slight set-back.  The outfit that sent the PSS10 are idiots.  They sent the wrong shocks.  What they sent was for a 2005 Turbo which would have been a 996 chassis.  Also they appeared to have been sold once before and returned, likely the same problem.  My shop had to undo the work they had done (they found out after calling Bilstein and waiting for hours that they were trying to fit the incorrect part!)  and is now waiting (with my car on the lift) for the correct parts. 

    The Tire Rack (much better source) is overnighting the correct shocks although I it will be the PSS9 Bilsteins since they had a special on them and I am not facing the additional time constraint of getting the car completed by Thursday.  Oh, well.  It is always something.  I should not have rushed this repair.  I am certain I will be happy with the PSS9 based on past experiance.  Will provide updates as the story unfolds.  Can't wait to get on the road!

    Stay away from www.discountautoshocks.com   Enough said.

     

     

     

     


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Heads up on the PSS9's: keep your paperwork in great order because they are no longer produced, and I've heard that limited availability of back stock parts for future re-build/replacement may lead to "pushing a rope" when they degrade.

    Just an FYI.  I've been pleased with PSS9's too.

    I've also heard that bi-directional KW's are only slightly more expensive than PSS10's (something like $20 I think).  I'm not sure of the particulars, but should be getting more info on that soon.

    Any experience on here with KW's?


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    davew (cincy):

    I've also heard that bi-directional KW's are only slightly more expensive than PSS10's (something like $20 I think).  I'm not sure of the particulars, but should be getting more info on that soon.

    Any experience on here with KW's?

    I have the KW Clubsport on my M3 and I'm very happy with them, especially on track. It's not the most delicate setup like I found for example in Öhlins (above), but body control is very good and tight.

    Price/Quality it's a very good option, and they seem to be very reliable. Only downside is that it's difficult to fiddle with the settings compared to for example PSS9. You need to adjust the valve on the up- and downside of the damper which requires your car to be on a lift in order to properly reach the underside of the damper. PSS9 is just simply changeable on the top-side of the damper.

    Regarding reliability the PSS9 seems to have some issues on some of my friends' cars, with knocking dampers, leaking dampers, ... all changed in warranty though.


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    IMG_3344.jpgIMG_3345.jpgIMG_3346.jpgGood news!  The tire rack and my repair shop came thru!

    The PSS9 kit was overnighted, delivered by 11am today and completed by 5:30PM this afternoon!  Total install $700!  Those guys are the best!  Plenty of time to prepare for the drive in 21 hours. 

    Even with 1400 miles in 19 hours facing me tomorrow after work I could not resiste some of my favorite twisty roads tonight - next think I knew I was out for two hours just having a blast.  100% improvement - I will admit my stock shock were SHOT! so anything would have been an improvement - Still - IT IS FRIGGIN NICE AND AMAZING how much better the car feels and rolls.  WOW!

    I stopped by the shop and dropped off my camera - they took a few pics of the install for me.  Enjoy...  Not my spare tire set-up for the long drives I go on.  I have used it!  Ask Gladstone, Chicago to KC!

    IMG_3343.jpgIMG_3376.jpgIMG_3378.jpgIMG_3373.jpgIMG_3372.jpgIMG_3370.jpgIMG_3368.jpgIMG_3366.jpgIMG_3365.jpgIMG_3364.jpgIMG_3363.jpgIMG_3362.jpgIMG_3360.jpgIMG_3359.jpgIMG_3358.jpgIMG_3357.jpgIMG_3356.jpgIMG_3355.jpgIMG_3354.jpgIMG_3353.jpgIMG_3350.jpgIMG_3349.jpgIMG_3347.jpg1334807490293IMG_3346.jpg1334807514565IMG_3343.jpg


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Sorry, I am not good at the order in which to attach these photos - but they are fairly self explanatory.  Note the amount of front brake pad remaining after 8 years!  Original pads!!  The rotors are PERFECT - no scoring, never any brake dust and the brakes never squeek.  Best part of the car.

    FYI - the Stock suspension I removed weighed 65 lbs, the PSS10 (not used) weighed 55 lbs, the PSS9 kit weighed in at 45 lbs.  Love little facts like that.

    The ride height is set to -20mm specs - I set the dial to 5 all around for the long drive just to start with.  Since this is not going on the track, ever, I doubt I will update the tie-rod ends and roll bars etc. like I did with my 996. I might get some wheel spacers. 

    Even so, an autocross or two is not out of the question.  The boys with the N-rated tires will be surprised by my All season Conti DWS tires mated with the PSS9.

    IMG_3382.jpgIMG_3379.jpg

     

     


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    $700 for install?  Wow, what a great deal!

    Great pics too.

    Congrats, and keep the fun rolling!


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Oh yes, I remember Chicago to KC on the spare. The final 500 miles of a 1400 mile return out of a 2800 mile road trip. Every time I approached the speed limit there was this howling sound. Oh wait that wasn't the tires

    You were so busy searching the internet and making phone calls to find someone in Des Moines with an 18" tire in stock. Can't imagine it would be any problem today, but that is just another era gone by.

    The stock 996 road the highway like a little Cadillac (not even a Mercedes). After the suspension mods, it was almost like one of the 84's or prior 911's. The stock 997 was a little better than the stock 996 yes

    If you would like an independent review of the modifications to the 997, I'm available


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Hi Gladstone,

    I thought you would remember that drive.

    All - I made it to Montreal without incident in 19 hours - well almost.  The last 140 miles on the 401 were a nightmare.  There was an emergency highway closure with a giant detour!  The last 100 miles was a traffic nightmare!  Quebec needs to spend some serious money on roads.  BTW - 26 miles per gallon, average speed 71.9 MPH, 12 minutes total stoppage for three fuel stops!

    Now for the specifics!  The ride (setting for the shocks 5 all the way around) was excellent thanks to the new shocks.  Like I said the old ones were dangerous so the comparison is not really fair but I do recall how the ride was when they were still working and it is night and day.  The suspension rattles I had are GONE!  The whole body seems to be more working better with the suspension.  The car is MUCH lower than I thought but I love it.  One slight drawback is that I can feel the tires rub slightly on something when I make a very tight u-turn (full lock) so I am adjusting my turning to avoid that.  (only at full lock at walking speed). 

    Turning is a whole new experiance.  The entire time I have owned this car I have felt the engine motion in the back on quick turn-in - I always felt this was a result of the PASM.  Hence the new active motor mounts to compensate.  My observation with the new PSS9 is that the lateral engine motion on turn-in it NOW TOTALLY absent.  No more delayed weight shift from the back - just one fluid turn in.  I am convinced the issue is due to the PASM system. 

    Cleary the stock shock wear out early and are crap after 5-6 years.  Good news it that replacing them makes the car better than new.  It is like starting from scratch - best upgrade you can get for this car.  Am I sorry that I don;t have the PASM (Damptronic) replacement?  Not for a second.  I do wish I had put on the PSS10 (Non-PASM) just because they are newer but they cerainly weighed more (10) lbs) so I am happy. 

    Total cost including labor and taxes - $3100.  If I had been able to shop a bit longer I think I could have found the parts for maybe $500 less (like the original price I paid for the PSS10).

    I can not be happier about the guys who did the work.  Not only did they charge a fair price and take pictures for you guys but they also made certain that the delay in the parts did not impact my trip schedule.  The tech was willing to work late into the night to get it done!  They really love their work and appreciated my business.  The local dealer wanted around $5500 for parts and labor.  As a result they are doing poorly and there are many great independant shops (with former techs of theirs) doing very well and charging fair prices.  I have never had any USE for the dealer except for warranty repairs and even then I don't trust them to do things correctly.  I have fixed too many of their mistakes - putting things where they belong after I get the car home.  Sad that they are so expensive and incompetent.  I would never buy a car from them.  When I went to see the new 991 (driving my car there) the salesman would not even speak to me much less offer me a ride.  He had NOTHING else to do, no one in the showroom except me and he just sat at his desk doing nothing.  What a joke.  I would love to buy that dealership, fire them all, and turn it around.  It would not take much to make it a Porsche Heaven - they have screwed it up so bad!!!  If anyone from Porsche Corp is reading this I am speaking of Aristocrat Porsche in KC!  Todd the service guy is losing them all their service business and I have already mentioned their stellar sales efforts, lol.

    Hopefully you have enjoyed my update - if nothing else I show how Porsche ownership is about driving and enjoying the car to its fullest - Not just about spending money.  I have perfected the art of Porsche ownership at bargain prices!  It makes driving that much more fun and leaves me lots of money for fuel.

    Cheers

     

     


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    davew (cincy):

    I've also heard that bi-directional KW's are only slightly more expensive than PSS10's (something like $20 I think).  I'm not sure of the particulars, but should be getting more info on that soon.

    Any experience on here with KW's?

    i've had two sets on two Boxsters - very pleased with the results (V3). Very good on the track and much better ride comfort on the street. Vastly superior to the oem parts.

    Congrats on the PSS9s! Should be a great improvement. Enjoy kiss


    --

    2011 987S, 1964 Type 1


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    I enjoyed reading your update! You PASM experience I can see at my car, too. I should think about that upgrade! Thanks!


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Thanks Lars - I am very happy with tg he upgrade especially here in Montreal for the week where roads are very rough - the old PASM could not take it anymore.  The PSS9 just eat up the bumps in a firm yet smooth manner.

    Good thing I have my DWS tires as my route home later this week now is covered in snow - up to 12 inches in Buffalo - which I pass through!

    Where in southern Germany are you?  I was born in Wiesbaden (Not US military).

     


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    I'm in the black forest, so snow we know quit well! :)

    Enjoy the spring ;)

    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    davew (cincy):

    I've also heard that bi-directional KW's are only slightly more expensive than PSS10's (something like $20 I think).  I'm not sure of the particulars, but should be getting more info on that soon.

    Any experience on here with KW's?

    KW's are regarded by most Porsche people involved in motorsport as an inferior option to Bilstein despite the fact that Manthey endorses them.

    I have a set of KW street comfort adjustable on my VW kiddie carrier/surf wagon and they seem pretty good but would only ever use Bilstein or better on my Pork.

    I have the B16 Damptronic on the 997 GT2 and PSS9/10 on the 993 turbo Smiley


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    TB993tt:
    davew (cincy):

    I've also heard that bi-directional KW's are only slightly more expensive than PSS10's (something like $20 I think).  I'm not sure of the particulars, but should be getting more info on that soon.

    Any experience on here with KW's?

    KW's are regarded by most Porsche people involved in motorsport as an inferior option to Bilstein despite the fact that Manthey endorses them.

    I have a set of KW street comfort adjustable on my VW kiddie carrier/surf wagon and they seem pretty good but would only ever use Bilstein or better on my Pork.

    I have the B16 Damptronic on the 997 GT2 and PSS9/10 on the 993 turbo Smiley

    I've always wondered why Manthey has this co-operation with KW, is it because of the material itself or purely a commercial agreement? When I think Porsche, I immediately think 'Bilstein' rather than KW...


    Re: PSS10 Bilstein - FINALLY

    Thanks for the great feedback, Gents!  I'll back off from the KW's then.  Its a bad idea to compromise on suspension components in order to save a little money.  I was a little iffy in general anyways...

    Sorry for the highjack, Leawood!  Glad to hear you're very happy with the PSS10's.

    I've also been tempted by the new MCS 2-ways (though its a huge investment) because of their absolute flexibility and fantastic reputation (historic anyway).  Given that they are so new, I doubt anyone here has a set, or a least very little comment on performance (much less longevity); but comments on those would also be very welcome.  Obviously I wouldn't be using them if I weren't going to the track...

     

     


     
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