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    996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    I thought the 997TT weighed less?? I made that comment on the other forum and they shot me down with this....
    http://www.supercars.net/garages/MMO/17v2.html
    http://www.theautobahn.com/forum/showcar.php?do=overview&car_model_id=40

    whats going on???
    "CF" claimes 997TT is 1585 KG manual
    the 996TT is 1540 KG
    im confused,,,,,

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Maybe the Tip is lighter thus explaining the speed disparity.

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Hey, no doubt you are right on this one BD 997.

    I have a copy of the Porsche 3/2006 Product news: The 911 Turbo (its for internal use)

    It compares 997TT to 996TT and 996TTS.
    It has all the data we need!

    it says (bracket is tip):
    Uniladen weight acc. to DIN
    997TT 1,585(1,620)KG 3,494(3,571)LBS
    996TT 1,590(1,630)KG 3,505(3,594)LBS
    996TTS 1,590(1,630)KG 3,505(3,594)LBS

    So I think the websites you are referring to is wrong on 1,540KG

    I have so much data in front of me! drag comparison, size comparison, PCCB comparison.

    this is interesting, new porsche 997TT wheels will be Forged aluminium

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    My 2002 Turbo weighs 1569 Kg with a full tank of gas and no occupants...weighed on four pad racing scales.

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    I thought the 997TT weighed less?? I made that comment on the other forum and they shot me down with this....
    http://www.supercars.net/garages/MMO/17v2.html
    http://www.theautobahn.com/forum/showcar.php?do=overview&car_model_id=40

    whats going on???
    "CF" claimes 997TT is 1585 KG manual
    the 996TT is 1540 KG
    im confused,,,,,



    Weight depends on options, measurement system, certification system (DIN, etc.) and so on.
    If Porsche claims the 997 Turbo is lighter than the 996 Turbo, you should believe it. I'm just a little bit confused with the claims from car magazines which vary from 15-40 kg less weight for the 997 Turbo compared to the 996 Turbo.

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    thanks guys... I thought I was losing it. I guess we will understand more after Geneva

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Hello,

    I read some time ago that 996TT weight went officially
    up from 1540 to 1590 Kgs in the middle of its
    career; due to options that became
    standard (such as Bose sound system) and improved
    crash safety in the front..
    Somebody can confirm this ?

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    I thought the 997TT weighed less?? I made that comment on the other forum and they shot me down with this....
    http://www.supercars.net/garages/MMO/17v2.html
    http://www.theautobahn.com/forum/showcar.php?do=overview&car_model_id=40

    whats going on???
    "CF" claimes 997TT is 1585 KG manual
    the 996TT is 1540 KG
    im confused,,,,,



    The 997TT weights more than the 996TT. You just have to listen to "Opus turbo" on the Porsche web site. They state the weight of 1585kg (manual version).

    The Tip version will be even heavier.

    As I sad: A disappointing car: poor acceleration, old 5 gear tiptronic which is probably slower than manual above 200kph but faster below 200kph, no pdk, too much weight, probably no significant improvement vs. 996TTS x73 on the NBR, not even LED tail lights...

    They probably tried to save money in order in further increase the Porsche share price. My expectation is that their share will be on its way down soon if they continue to destroy their brand value. A lost customer is a lost customer. And a lost customer usually talks to many other current and potential customers who might also be influenced by such talk... They are playing a very dangerous game here

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Aren't you tired of complaining?
    Wait for the **** car first... So much fuss over a couple of pictures is starting to look a little silly.

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Aren't you tired of complaining?
    Wait for the **** car first... So much fuss over a couple of pictures is starting to look a little silly.



    I am not tired yet I am still angry

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Aren't you tired of complaining?
    Wait for the **** car first... So much fuss over a couple of pictures is starting to look a little silly.



    BTW: We have been speculating (quite positively) about the 997TT for months. Now we know the product specs.

    Why should disappointed Porsche buyers not complain for months. The test results will (most likely) not change much. The facts known to date speek for themselves

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Why should disappointed Porsche buyers not complain for months. The test results will (most likely) not change much. The facts known to date speek for themselves



    I understand that some people are disappointed, especially with the non-availability of PDK but also with the "low" power figure on the paper.

    But, this is a fact: the 997 Turbo is an incredibly fast car and because you like to compare it to the 996 Turbo S, I can tell you that I've talked about this "comparison" to certain people and all of them were actually laughing in my face, claiming that the 997 Turbo and the 996 Turbo S are as much of a difference in performance like day and night. And in favor of the 997 Turbo. I trust these people because up to now, their claims have been accurate.

    Of course they can be wrong, I can be wrong and maybe the 997 Turbo is crap. But shouldn't we wait until we see a real life review, at least ONE?

    I have more of a feeling that you're trying to "justify" to yourself NOT to go for the new 997 Turbo and to be happy with your current 996 Turbo S. No problem with me. But if you want to know facts, you should wait for a few reviews to make sure you're not making a mistake in your judgement.

    Regarding the weight of the new Turbo:
    I hold here the OFFICIAL Porsche 911 (996) Turbo Technik Kompendium in my hands and the weight statements are:
    Leergewicht DIN: 1540 kg (Tiptronic: 1585 kg) - 997 TT:1585 kg (1620 kg).
    Leergewicht DIN + Fahrer 75 kg: 1615 kg (Tiptronic: 1660 kg) - 997 TT: 1660 kg (Tiptronic: 1695 kg).


    Weight to power ratio:
    3,66 kg/HP (Tiptronic: 3,76 kg/HP).


    So yes, you're right: the new 997 Turbo is actually 35-45 kg heavier than the old 996 Turbo and I'm a little bit surprised to see how Porsche seems to mix up the numbers, by purpose or not. I suppose they took the latest factory weight claims for the 996 Turbo and compared them to the new 997 Turbo. But I agree with you that this is a little bit of a marketing "trick". Because although the 996 Turbo did gain in weight over the years of production, it also gained in performance surprisingly.

    But the 996 Turbo vs. 997 Turbo power/weight ratio is a different story. 3.3 kg/HP is better than 3.66 kg (by ~ 10%).
    And the 996 Turbo S is a few kg heavier than the 996 Turbo due to the increased weight (this is valid for the 996 Turbo too) during the model production cycle.

    Sounds confusing? Well, a little bit.

    This is why I recommend: wait and see. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. And if you like it, well...too late for an early car.

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Why should disappointed Porsche buyers not complain for months. The test results will (most likely) not change much. The facts known to date speek for themselves



    I understand that some people are disappointed, especially with the non-availability of PDK but also with the "low" power figure on the paper.

    But, this is a fact: the 997 Turbo is an incredibly fast car and because you like to compare it to the 996 Turbo S, I can tell you that I've talked about this "comparison" to certain people and all of them were actually laughing in my face, claiming that the 997 Turbo and the 996 Turbo S are as much of a difference in performance like day and night. And in favor of the 997 Turbo. I trust these people because up to now, their claims have been accurate.

    Of course they can be wrong, I can be wrong and maybe the 997 Turbo is crap. But shouldn't we wait until we see a real life review, at least ONE?

    I have more of a feeling that you're trying to "justify" to yourself NOT to go for the new 997 Turbo and to be happy with your current 996 Turbo S. No problem with me. But if you want to know facts, you should wait for a few reviews to make sure you're not making a mistake in your judgement.

    Regarding the weight of the new Turbo:
    I hold here the OFFICIAL Porsche 911 (996) Turbo Technik Kompendium in my hands and the weight statements are:
    Leergewicht DIN: 1540 kg (Tiptronic: 1585 kg) - 997 TT:1585 kg (1620 kg).
    Leergewicht DIN + Fahrer 75 kg: 1615 kg (Tiptronic: 1660 kg) - 997 TT: 1660 kg (Tiptronic: 1695 kg).


    Weight to power ratio:
    3,66 kg/HP (Tiptronic: 3,76 kg/HP).


    So yes, you're right: the new 997 Turbo is actually 35-45 kg heavier than the old 996 Turbo and I'm a little bit surprised to see how Porsche seems to mix up the numbers, by purpose or not. I suppose they took the latest factory weight claims for the 996 Turbo and compared them to the new 997 Turbo. But I agree with you that this is a little bit of a marketing "trick". Because although the 996 Turbo did gain in weight over the years of production, it also gained in performance surprisingly.

    But the 996 Turbo vs. 997 Turbo power/weight ratio is a different story. 3.3 kg/HP is better than 3.66 kg (by ~ 10%).
    And the 996 Turbo S is a few kg heavier than the 996 Turbo due to the increased weight (this is valid for the 996 Turbo too) during the model production cycle.

    Sounds confusing? Well, a little bit.

    This is why I recommend: wait and see. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. And if you like it, well...too late for an early car.



    I really hope that you are right about the performance of the 997TT. But why are the performance figures on paper so disappointing then? But I agree, let's wait and see. The unfortunate thing is that I do not have much time to wait.

    I am actually in the situation that I need to replace my 996 sooner or later. It already has 60k km on the clock... That partly explains my disappointment with the new 997TT - as I will not order the car as introduced in Geneva.

    If they don't offer a reasonable package within the next 12 months I might try to get a 599GTB. Also, the new Audi R8 with the larger engine might be interesting. The Murcielago is too extreme (in terms of looks - my wife hates it...)

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    The new Murcielago should be an incredible car. For 250000 Euro, this is right now the best buy for your money I'd say...if you're into sportscars.
    0-100 kph in 3.4 seconds (definetely faster than 997 TT), 0-200 kph in under 11 seconds (I don't have the precise figure at hand) and a top speed of 340 kph. This car absolutely rocks. This would definetely be THE car in my garage if I would have the money. No doubt about it.

    My wife doesn't like the Murcielago either. Reason? It is a chick magnet. She didn't tell me directly but the tone in her voice was very clear. And my wife doesn't have to feel threatened by other women since she has nothing to complaint about, especially after two kids.
    But you know how women are...they are cool, strong, whatever...but when it comes to other women and looks...

    As much as I'm a Porsche addict, the new Lamborghini Murcielago is just a dream come true. In my opinion the perfect package, a mix of style, sportiness, aggressive and masculine looks, combined with feminine beauty (as weird as this may sound). A driving machine par excellence.

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    I am actually in the situation that I need to replace my 996 sooner or later. It already has 60k km on the clock...



    I call this a brand new car!
    But I'm with you. Mine will need a replacement sometimes too, but I won't jump into the early 997TT train. Too much money for too little improvement, at least right now. We'll see what will follow, but I'm currently more on the GT3 side... (even if I'm bit bit afraid I could miss the torque)

    Another fun thing (in a very different league) is the T1. (sorry for sliding a bit OT)

    --p

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    RC said:

    So yes, you're right: the new 997 Turbo is actually 35-45 kg heavier than the old 996 Turbo and I'm a little bit surprised to see how Porsche seems to mix up the numbers, by purpose or not.



    So what else did Porsche "mix up"?

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    I must agree with MKSGR about the gearbox.Fitting an automatic gearbox in a "pure" sportscar sounds like a bad joke in 2006.

    What is even worst is that after seeing the 0-62 specs, some people cancelled the manual gearbox and turned to tiptronic...I really can't understand that (from my European point of view).I think it's a very bad move for a so refined sports car.

    what about a F430 tiptronic???

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    996 Turbo:

    http://www.porsche.co.za/911/turbo/technical_specifications/technical_specifications.htm


    996 Turbo S:

    http://www.porsche.co.za/911/turbos/technical_specifications/technical_specifications.htm

    The weight was 1590 KG for the outgoing 996 Turbo and 996 Turbo S.

    When the car was introduced it was 1540 KG, it did however increase during its evolution at the end to 1590 KG.

    End of story.

    Question for MKSGR.

    In your opinion, which specifications should the 997 Turbo have?

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The new Murcielago should be an incredible car. For 250000 Euro, this is right now the best buy for your money I'd say...if you're into sportscars.
    0-100 kph in 3.4 seconds (definetely faster than 997 TT), 0-200 kph in under 11 seconds (I don't have the precise figure at hand) and a top speed of 340 kph. This car absolutely rocks. This would definetely be THE car in my garage if I would have the money. No doubt about it.

    My wife doesn't like the Murcielago either. Reason? It is a chick magnet. She didn't tell me directly but the tone in her voice was very clear. And my wife doesn't have to feel threatened by other women since she has nothing to complaint about, especially after two kids.
    But you know how women are...they are cool, strong, whatever...but when it comes to other women and looks...

    As much as I'm a Porsche addict, the new Lamborghini Murcielago is just a dream come true. In my opinion the perfect package, a mix of style, sportiness, aggressive and masculine looks, combined with feminine beauty (as weird as this may sound). A driving machine par excellence.




    I agree, the new bull is awesome, no two ways about it, and although the 997TT is awesome, the gallardo SE isnt so bad either!!! RC, are u becoming a lambo convert:)?

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    RC said:
    0-200 kph in under 11 seconds



    Wow! I did not know that it was that quick

    Maybe my wife could accept a black one

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    pierre said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    I am actually in the situation that I need to replace my 996 sooner or later. It already has 60k km on the clock...



    I call this a brand new car!
    But I'm with you. Mine will need a replacement sometimes too, but I won't jump into the early 997TT train. Too much money for too little improvement, at least right now. We'll see what will follow, but I'm currently more on the GT3 side... (even if I'm bit bit afraid I could miss the torque)

    Another fun thing (in a very different league) is the T1. (sorry for sliding a bit OT)

    --p



    Interesting comment! Based on the information available I must admit that I somehow like the news about the new GT3. Seems to be a very good car. If the RS had PDK - well, very nice indeed.

    P.S.: Your earlier posts on the mileage of your TT convinced me to use my TT as a daily driver (in the summer)

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    CF said:
    Question for MKSGR.

    In your opinion, which specifications should the 997 Turbo have?



    I would be satisfied with the following package:

    - Powerkit (510hp to 520hp)
    - PDK
    - turbo sports crono
    - Implied 0-200kph time of around 11 seconds

    I would order the car immediatly I hope that they will offer such package before I am forced to by a competing brand...

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    The new Murcielago should be an incredible car. For 250000 Euro, this is right now the best buy for your money I'd say...if you're into sportscars.
    0-100 kph in 3.4 seconds (definetely faster than 997 TT), 0-200 kph in under 11 seconds (I don't have the precise figure at hand) and a top speed of 340 kph. This car absolutely rocks. This would definetely be THE car in my garage if I would have the money. No doubt about it.

    My wife doesn't like the Murcielago either. Reason? It is a chick magnet. She didn't tell me directly but the tone in her voice was very clear. And my wife doesn't have to feel threatened by other women since she has nothing to complaint about, especially after two kids.
    But you know how women are...they are cool, strong, whatever...but when it comes to other women and looks...

    As much as I'm a Porsche addict, the new Lamborghini Murcielago is just a dream come true. In my opinion the perfect package, a mix of style, sportiness, aggressive and masculine looks, combined with feminine beauty (as weird as this may sound). A driving machine par excellence.




    I agree, the new bull is awesome, no two ways about it, and although the 997TT is awesome, the gallardo SE isnt so bad either!!! RC, are u becoming a lambo convert:)?



    If you search through some of RC's older posts, you will find, that he has actually been quite a Lambo fan for a while now. He wanted the old Murci, so I can only imagine what it must feel like to see the new one (heck, I'd order it in a heartbeat if I could afford to blow the extra Euro 100.000 ).

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    The new Murcielago should be an incredible car. For 250000 Euro, this is right now the best buy for your money I'd say...if you're into sportscars.
    0-100 kph in 3.4 seconds (definetely faster than 997 TT), 0-200 kph in under 11 seconds (I don't have the precise figure at hand) and a top speed of 340 kph. This car absolutely rocks. This would definetely be THE car in my garage if I would have the money. No doubt about it.

    My wife doesn't like the Murcielago either. Reason? It is a chick magnet. She didn't tell me directly but the tone in her voice was very clear. And my wife doesn't have to feel threatened by other women since she has nothing to complaint about, especially after two kids.
    But you know how women are...they are cool, strong, whatever...but when it comes to other women and looks...

    As much as I'm a Porsche addict, the new Lamborghini Murcielago is just a dream come true. In my opinion the perfect package, a mix of style, sportiness, aggressive and masculine looks, combined with feminine beauty (as weird as this may sound). A driving machine par excellence.




    I agree, the new bull is awesome, no two ways about it, and although the 997TT is awesome, the gallardo SE isnt so bad either!!! RC, are u becoming a lambo convert:)?



    If you search through some of RC's older posts, you will find, that he has actually been quite a Lambo fan for a while now. He wanted the old Murci, so I can only imagine what it must feel like to see the new one (heck, I'd order it in a heartbeat if I could afford to blow the extra Euro 100.000 ).



    The Murcielago is really a great car. The only drawback is its extreme design. Driving a Murcielago will always be a strong statement... A statement totally different from being seen in a 997TT. If they could only fix the performance of this car

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    The new Murcielago should be an incredible car. For 250000 Euro, this is right now the best buy for your money I'd say...if you're into sportscars.
    0-100 kph in 3.4 seconds (definetely faster than 997 TT), 0-200 kph in under 11 seconds (I don't have the precise figure at hand) and a top speed of 340 kph. This car absolutely rocks. This would definetely be THE car in my garage if I would have the money. No doubt about it.

    My wife doesn't like the Murcielago either. Reason? It is a chick magnet. She didn't tell me directly but the tone in her voice was very clear. And my wife doesn't have to feel threatened by other women since she has nothing to complaint about, especially after two kids.
    But you know how women are...they are cool, strong, whatever...but when it comes to other women and looks...

    As much as I'm a Porsche addict, the new Lamborghini Murcielago is just a dream come true. In my opinion the perfect package, a mix of style, sportiness, aggressive and masculine looks, combined with feminine beauty (as weird as this may sound). A driving machine par excellence.




    I agree, the new bull is awesome, no two ways about it, and although the 997TT is awesome, the gallardo SE isnt so bad either!!! RC, are u becoming a lambo convert:)?



    If you search through some of RC's older posts, you will find, that he has actually been quite a Lambo fan for a while now. He wanted the old Murci, so I can only imagine what it must feel like to see the new one (heck, I'd order it in a heartbeat if I could afford to blow the extra Euro 100.000 ).



    The Murcielago is really a great car. The only drawback is its extreme design. Driving a Murcielago will always be a strong statement... A statement totally different from being seen in a 997TT. If they could only fix the performance of this car



    Well, the Murci is a car where I would be willing to overlook the flashiness (I'd just get that dark gray color from the press photos) due to its design that is very appealing to me personally, and its performance. Probably the most accessible supercar of them all.
    Regarding the 997TT, I don't think you'll ever own it. The 997TTS, however, is another matter

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    P.S.: Your earlier posts on the mileage of your TT convinced me to use my TT as a daily driver (in the summer)



    That's a good start!
    --p

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The new Murcielago should be an incredible car. For 250000 Euro, this is right now the best buy for your money I'd say...if you're into sportscars.
    0-100 kph in 3.4 seconds (definetely faster than 997 TT), 0-200 kph in under 11 seconds (I don't have the precise figure at hand) and a top speed of 340 kph. This car absolutely rocks. This would definetely be THE car in my garage if I would have the money. No doubt about it.

    My wife doesn't like the Murcielago either. Reason? It is a chick magnet. She didn't tell me directly but the tone in her voice was very clear. And my wife doesn't have to feel threatened by other women since she has nothing to complaint about, especially after two kids.
    But you know how women are...they are cool, strong, whatever...but when it comes to other women and looks...

    As much as I'm a Porsche addict, the new Lamborghini Murcielago is just a dream come true. In my opinion the perfect package, a mix of style, sportiness, aggressive and masculine looks, combined with feminine beauty (as weird as this may sound). A driving machine par excellence.



    BTW: What is your opinion on the 599 GTB. Performance should be on par with the new Murcielago. Plus: the 599 GTB looks much more understated

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Murchi is not a competitor of the 997tt..
    Porsche is going to face a serious problem though with the NEW 2006 Gallardo, which as i heard it will be really fast too!!

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Why should disappointed Porsche buyers not complain for months. The test results will (most likely) not change much. The facts known to date speek for themselves



    I understand that some people are disappointed, especially with the non-availability of PDK but also with the "low" power figure on the paper.

    But, this is a fact: the 997 Turbo is an incredibly fast car and because you like to compare it to the 996 Turbo S, I can tell you that I've talked about this "comparison" to certain people and all of them were actually laughing in my face, claiming that the 997 Turbo and the 996 Turbo S are as much of a difference in performance like day and night. And in favor of the 997 Turbo. I trust these people because up to now, their claims have been accurate.

    Of course they can be wrong, I can be wrong and maybe the 997 Turbo is crap. But shouldn't we wait until we see a real life review, at least ONE?

    I have more of a feeling that you're trying to "justify" to yourself NOT to go for the new 997 Turbo and to be happy with your current 996 Turbo S. No problem with me. But if you want to know facts, you should wait for a few reviews to make sure you're not making a mistake in your judgement.

    Regarding the weight of the new Turbo:
    I hold here the OFFICIAL Porsche 911 (996) Turbo Technik Kompendium in my hands and the weight statements are:
    Leergewicht DIN: 1540 kg (Tiptronic: 1585 kg) - 997 TT:1585 kg (1620 kg).
    Leergewicht DIN + Fahrer 75 kg: 1615 kg (Tiptronic: 1660 kg) - 997 TT: 1660 kg (Tiptronic: 1695 kg).


    Weight to power ratio:
    3,66 kg/HP (Tiptronic: 3,76 kg/HP).


    So yes, you're right: the new 997 Turbo is actually 35-45 kg heavier than the old 996 Turbo and I'm a little bit surprised to see how Porsche seems to mix up the numbers, by purpose or not. I suppose they took the latest factory weight claims for the 996 Turbo and compared them to the new 997 Turbo. But I agree with you that this is a little bit of a marketing "trick". Because although the 996 Turbo did gain in weight over the years of production, it also gained in performance surprisingly.

    But the 996 Turbo vs. 997 Turbo power/weight ratio is a different story. 3.3 kg/HP is better than 3.66 kg (by ~ 10%).
    And the 996 Turbo S is a few kg heavier than the 996 Turbo due to the increased weight (this is valid for the 996 Turbo too) during the model production cycle.

    Sounds confusing? Well, a little bit.

    This is why I recommend: wait and see. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. And if you like it, well...too late for an early car.



    These wt figs are still confusing...where's wt savings of std PCCB 2.0 on 996TTS?....and what are wt savings of optional PCCB 3.0 on 997TT?

    Re: 996TT weighs LESS than the 997TT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Why should disappointed Porsche buyers not complain for months. The test results will (most likely) not change much. The facts known to date speek for themselves



    I understand that some people are disappointed, especially with the non-availability of PDK but also with the "low" power figure on the paper.

    But, this is a fact: the 997 Turbo is an incredibly fast car and because you like to compare it to the 996 Turbo S, I can tell you that I've talked about this "comparison" to certain people and all of them were actually laughing in my face, claiming that the 997 Turbo and the 996 Turbo S are as much of a difference in performance like day and night. And in favor of the 997 Turbo. I trust these people because up to now, their claims have been accurate.

    Of course they can be wrong, I can be wrong and maybe the 997 Turbo is crap. But shouldn't we wait until we see a real life review, at least ONE?

    I have more of a feeling that you're trying to "justify" to yourself NOT to go for the new 997 Turbo and to be happy with your current 996 Turbo S. No problem with me. But if you want to know facts, you should wait for a few reviews to make sure you're not making a mistake in your judgement.

    Regarding the weight of the new Turbo:
    I hold here the OFFICIAL Porsche 911 (996) Turbo Technik Kompendium in my hands and the weight statements are:
    Leergewicht DIN: 1540 kg (Tiptronic: 1585 kg) - 997 TT:1585 kg (1620 kg).
    Leergewicht DIN + Fahrer 75 kg: 1615 kg (Tiptronic: 1660 kg) - 997 TT: 1660 kg (Tiptronic: 1695 kg).


    Weight to power ratio:
    3,66 kg/HP (Tiptronic: 3,76 kg/HP).


    So yes, you're right: the new 997 Turbo is actually 35-45 kg heavier than the old 996 Turbo and I'm a little bit surprised to see how Porsche seems to mix up the numbers, by purpose or not. I suppose they took the latest factory weight claims for the 996 Turbo and compared them to the new 997 Turbo. But I agree with you that this is a little bit of a marketing "trick". Because although the 996 Turbo did gain in weight over the years of production, it also gained in performance surprisingly.

    But the 996 Turbo vs. 997 Turbo power/weight ratio is a different story. 3.3 kg/HP is better than 3.66 kg (by ~ 10%).
    And the 996 Turbo S is a few kg heavier than the 996 Turbo due to the increased weight (this is valid for the 996 Turbo too) during the model production cycle.

    Sounds confusing? Well, a little bit.

    This is why I recommend: wait and see. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. And if you like it, well...too late for an early car.



    I really hope that you are right about the performance of the 997TT. But why are the performance figures on paper so disappointing then? But I agree, let's wait and see. The unfortunate thing is that I do not have much time to wait.

    I am actually in the situation that I need to replace my 996 sooner or later. It already has 60k km on the clock... That partly explains my disappointment with the new 997TT - as I will not order the car as introduced in Geneva.

    If they don't offer a reasonable package within the next 12 months I might try to get a 599GTB. Also, the new Audi R8 with the larger engine might be interesting. The Murcielago is too extreme (in terms of looks - my wife hates it...)



    MKSGR, keep in mind that Murci will weigh 4000lb+ and 575 w/GTCH pack (and CCM) weighs about 3900lbs (fair est of what 599 will really weigh)....so 997TT w/PCCB is a relative lightweight at 3600ish lbs....

    Doubt many can convince a dealer/jaded pal to allow them to thrash their new, early copy 599/Murci for a few hrs back-to-back against each other and vs 997TT....

    Simple solution: just buy both 599 and Murci @launch; thrash them for a few wks on your favorite autobahns and twisties...and borrow a dealer's 997TT for a several hr comparo drive....then draw your own conclusions on subjective driving feel diffces....get rid of the cars that don't measure up...and buy the 997TT if it impresses you sufficiently....

    Based on my expce w/Gallardo, doubt the heavier Murci will have competitive steering/brake pedal feel vs F/P....599 may be strongest driving feel competitor to 997TT, but be sure to adjust for 997TT's wet road traction and closely eval F's stab ctrls, airbag systems, crumple zones, etc vs 997TT.....

    Would argue cost of this test (essen deprec costs of owning a 599 and Murci for 1-2 mos) is much cheaper than oppty cost of believing (and buying cars based upon) inane mag rvws from conflicted/inept reviewers or gaining second/third-hand impressions/speculation from the 99%+ of fellow car enthusiasts who will have only driven zero or one or two of these cars in any vigorous manner for an extended period of time on varying roads....

     
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