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    Re: PDK car seen

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    conner said:
    Porsche don't make Paddles for the new PDK/DSG like Ferrari, Maserati or BMW M5. The gear "Paddles" look like in this Panamera Spy Shot




    Damn. I was always envisioning the 997TT PDK with paddles. Oh well.



    I was also envisioning it with the 964 engine block, but I doubt we'll see that .

    Re: PDK car seen

    So the PDK will deploy the same tiptronic buttons then without paddles only that the system actually use dual clutches. Got it.

    Re: PDK car seen

    Perhaps Ferrari F1 paddle owners can chime in, but I'm not convinced that (if true) these PDK buttons shown in the Panamera are ergonomically as good as paddles... seems that a button you have to push forward with your thumbs, from a very consistent steering wheel position, is inferior to a longer paddle that you can pull towards you with greater precision, and from several hand positions on the wheel.

    Re: PDK car seen

    Quote:
    4trac said:
    Perhaps Ferrari F1 paddle owners can chime in, but I'm not convinced that (if true) these PDK buttons shown in the Panamera are ergonomically as good as paddles... seems that a button you have to push forward with your thumbs, from a very consistent steering wheel position, is inferior to a longer paddle that you can pull towards you with greater precision, and from several hand positions on the wheel.



    I completely agree, especially if you're being pinned to your seat as the turbo is thrusting the car forward during it's full-throttle boost. Easier to pull than to push.

    Re: PDK car seen

    I love the paddles! I hope the new Turbo have it.. if not I will buy another car because I think the paddle system is the unavoidable component in a real sport car!!


    Re: PDK car seen

    The paddle system (ala F430 F1 I drove this summer) is phenomenal and nothing at all like the pushbutton tip Porsche system.

    I'd hope they'd go the paddle route if they are doing PDK, though I personally still enjoy thrusting the manual.

    Re: PDK car seen

    I have a 997TT Tip and agree with all comments regarding the tip buttons/PDK system. If PDK on the TT is to be really successful, ergonmically speaking, the wheel mounted buttons are unacceptable. In fact, I'll go "out on a limb" and even opine, from my modest experiences, that the paddles must be "column mounted". Steering wheel mounted paddles just don't work (just like the tip buttons) when your blitzing the car around. In the few rides I have with the F430, I can, without equivocation, state that the paddle system is just phenominal. If Porsche would just simply emulate the F430 tranny, they would have a guaranteed winner on their hands for the PDK system. Alas, they may be too smart to simply buy a used F430/F430 Scud and pick it apart ..... or maybe they have done it already.

    Re: PDK car seen

    Agree...Tip buttons are utterly worthless from an ergonomic standpoint.....in fact, often risk accidentally pushing one of the Tip buttons during spirited driving....

    F has it figured out w/latest 599/Scud boxes.....P is about 10yrs behind F gearboxes.....a rapidly moving/evolving tech target.....

    Re: PDK car seen

    if there are no paddles, i believe its mainly the stick that will be used to shift and the tiptronic buttons are on the wheel as an alternative method.

    it could also be due to the nature of dsg that it is not as shift intensive as the f1 tranny. its just a better and more efficient design in auto mode. virtually no shift lag.

    most probably dsg will be introduced in the NA models first and in the turbo models when it can handle the torque of theses enines...

    then again for pure testing they do not really need to put in the paddles if they still intend to conceal whats going on.

    anyway...its somehow dissappointing that porsche's R&D team seems to have been vacationing in jamaica for the since the intro of the 997.....

    Re: PDK car seen

    These pictures also seem to shed little lights on paddles.


    Re: PDK car seen

    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    if there are no paddles, i believe its mainly the stick that will be used to shift and the tiptronic buttons are on the wheel as an alternative method.

    it could also be due to the nature of dsg that it is not as shift intensive as the f1 tranny. its just a better and more efficient design in auto mode. virtually no shift lag.

    then again for pure testing they do not really need to put in the paddles if they still intend to conceal whats going on.

    anyway...its somehow dissappointing that porsche's R&D team seems to have been vacationing in jamaica for the since the intro of the 997.....



    Well, I'm not sure that many PDK/DSG buyers intended to use the stick to shift - surely the point of sequential manuals is to shift with both hands in control and on the wheel? (though some BMW SMG drivers claim to use both methods depending on how hairy their steering motions are).

    As for PDK being less shift intensive - the only way a PDK is less shift intensive is to keep it in automatic mode; in the manual mode that most Rennteamers are looking for, you will shift exactly as many times as you would in any other variant of DSG, or a manual for that matter.

    Moogle and other posters have argued that all these transmissions are just more techie-acceptable variants of traditional automatics - likely a bit of truth there, but to enthusiasts or track fans, the manual mode of PDK shifting is critical. I for one have more and more respect for Ferrari's engineering smarts...

    Re: PDK car seen

    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    besides the fact that porsche has to come out with pdk to remain among the top sports car marques, it wil have a huge efect on performance.....look at what ferrari achieved with the scuderia.....a huge hype was created due to the 60ms shif times and the car has achieved cult status before even actual real life performance figures are released....

    porsche currently seems to be run by corporate suits and not performance hungry technicians.....if share value is more important than performance numbers, then porsche will shift to a different market.

    if the r&d department at PAG is not enthusiastic about the product they release, they cannot expect any enthusiasm amongst buyers.

    i currently have a cayenne turbo, 997 turbo and will be receiving a gt2 coming march...so i guess i am a porsche guy...should the future not bring more exciting products i will look elsewhere...

    I wish to drive a Porsche Turbo and not a PAG Turbo....




    Hey one of the lucky few to get a GT2! When will it be delivered? Please post pics ASAP...

    Enjoy (and drive safe - apparently this one still has "character" - although less snap oversteer than the 996 version).

    Best, SoS


    Re: PDK car seen

    Please help me understand something here regarding what you are referring to when you mention using the "stick" to shift? I thought there were just paddles/tip button along with the standard automatic gear changer. Will you actually be able to change gears like on a 6 speed, or am I just reading this wrong?

    Re: PDK car seen

    Quote:
    jeffk68 said:
    Please help me understand something here regarding what you are referring to when you mention using the "stick" to shift? I thought there were just paddles/tip button along with the standard automatic gear changer. Will you actually be able to change gears like on a 6 speed, or am I just reading this wrong?



    more like a sequential.....by pushing forward and backwards...

    Re: PDK car seen

    Quote:
    jeffk68 said:
    Please help me understand something here regarding what you are referring to when you mention using the "stick" to shift? I thought there were just paddles/tip button along with the standard automatic gear changer. Will you actually be able to change gears like on a 6 speed, or am I just reading this wrong?



    Yes, this must be confusing if you have not driven one of these cars... basically most companies who have produced a sequential manual transmission have installed two methods of manually changing up and down through the gears. (they all also have an automatic mode that simulates a conventional automatic, with some additional jerking and lurching just to make it more fun - but most enthusiasts are still interested in at least having a manual shift option that works well). One of the manual shift modes is via the stick on the floor (usually pushing forward to upshift though there is no standard here) and the other is usually via the famous flappy paddles of Jeremy Clarkson fame. Porsche has always used steering wheel mounted buttons for its Tiptronic conventional auto., and the posters here were musing about how they might actuate their slowwwwwllly developing PDK sequential manual. The only exception to the stick + paddles rule that I can think of is Ferrari, who to my knowledge have never provided a stick option for manual shifting of their F1 - and I have never heard a Ferrari owner missing it either.

    Re: PDK car seen

    Quote:
    4trac said:
    Porsche has always used steering wheel mounted buttons for its Tiptronic conventional auto



    Porsche in fact founded the hype of self-interaction in to the automatic shifting patterns by the driver two decades ago, back then you had a 2nd parallel column on the automatic shift pattern to select gears manually. I am not even sure if wheel-mounted buttons were already featured in the beginning? Not my cup of tea anyway...

     
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