Jan 4, 2008 2:14:09 AM
-
Ron (Houston)
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Houston, TX , United States
- Posts: 8810, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
Crown
Board: Other Sports Cars
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
Jan 4, 2008 12:38:03 PM
- easy_rider911
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 22190, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
-
Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
A victim of its own success...
Jan 5, 2008 3:22:47 AM
- Heist
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Washington, DC , United States
- Posts: 4147, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 15, 2007
- Reply to: easy_rider911
Jan 5, 2008 11:03:44 AM
- palenimbus
- Expert
-
- Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany
- Posts: 1824, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 6, 2004
- Reply to: Heist
Re: Dec. '07 numbers are in
Quote:
Heist said:
I'm sure Mini's Dec success would have something to with the ASTRONOMICAL gas prices in the states.
We're about to hit another all-time high. Most places are in excess of $3.20/gal for 87.
And I remember in the winter of 1996 when it was $0.99/gal !
3.20/g Astronomical? lol
Jan 5, 2008 11:06:23 AM
- U Boat Commander
- Veteran
-
- Loc: Los Angeles, CA
- Posts: 1250, Gallery
- Registered on: May 8, 2004
- Reply to: Heist
Jan 5, 2008 11:09:00 AM
- U Boat Commander
- Veteran
-
- Loc: Los Angeles, CA
- Posts: 1250, Gallery
- Registered on: May 8, 2004
- Reply to: palenimbus
Jan 5, 2008 1:26:00 PM
-
Carlos from Spain
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Spain. , Spain
- Posts: 20397, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
- Reply to: U Boat Commander
Re: Dec. '07 numbers are in
Quote:
U Boat Commander said:Quote:
palenimbus said:
3.20/g Astronomical? lol
Well, for here it is. Nearly $4 for premium in LA. For the first time I paid over $60 to fill up my 911 the other day.
Its $6.70 per gallon here in Spain and its one of the countries in EU with the most economical fuel price
a full gas tan will run you over $100 
Jan 5, 2008 1:31:55 PM
-
Carlos from Spain
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Spain. , Spain
- Posts: 20397, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
- Reply to: skazzy
Jan 5, 2008 7:28:54 PM
- easy_rider911
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 22190, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
-
Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Jan 5, 2008 8:20:56 PM
- SoCal Alan
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: Orange County , United States
- Posts: 7268, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 6, 2004
- Reply to: easy_rider911
Re: Dec. '07 numbers are in
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
I paid the equivalent of $122 to fill up an entire tank with Shell V-Power.
You guys in the USA should consider yourself lucky. 80% of what we pay is fuel tax and then we even pay sales tax on top of that fuel tax.
It's not luck, easy_rider911. It's what we want.
Jan 5, 2008 9:01:09 PM
- Heist
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Washington, DC , United States
- Posts: 4147, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 15, 2007
- Reply to: easy_rider911
Re: Dec. '07 numbers are in
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
I paid the equivalent of $122 to fill up an entire tank with Shell V-Power.
You guys in the USA should consider yourself lucky. 80% of what we pay is fuel tax and then we even pay sales tax on top of that fuel tax.
Start raising a ruckus with your elected officials about the tax, don't re-elect or vote for those who don't favor a reduction and you'll see how fast those taxes will come down.
Of course that deficit will be transposed someplace else ... but at least the fueling cost will go down.
Jan 5, 2008 9:04:34 PM
- Heist
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Washington, DC , United States
- Posts: 4147, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 15, 2007
- Reply to: palenimbus
Re: Dec. '07 numbers are in
Quote:
palenimbus said:Quote:
Heist said:
I'm sure Mini's Dec success would have something to with the ASTRONOMICAL gas prices in the states.
We're about to hit another all-time high. Most places are in excess of $3.20/gal for 87.
And I remember in the winter of 1996 when it was $0.99/gal !
For the USA, that's pretty high for 87 oct.
Here in D.C., I just spent $64 to fill up the Audi on 89 Oct. 15/gal tank.
Last year it was like a $40 exercise.
3.20/g Astronomical? lol
Jan 6, 2008 11:42:09 AM
- easy_rider911
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 22190, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
- Reply to: Heist
Re: Dec. '07 numbers are in
You guys are overlooking the following:
1) Crude oil is priced in US dollars
2) The US dollar has been extremely weak recently. A month ago, Pounds1=US$2.11 and even today Pounds1=US$1.97
So these factors haven't helped much... but all the same, both Labour and the Conservative parties here in the UK would tax fuel heavily. It's easy tax revenue from a product with highly price inelastic demand. So it's not like we have a choice of party that will bring fuel taxes down. Neither party is a friend of the motorist.
We use public transportation much more heavily here in the UK. So using a car isn't seen in the UK as the 'only realistic alternative' for most people (except in very remote areas).
Also, remember that 10 years ago, crude oil was priced at about US$10 per barrel. Today, thanks mostly to the Bush administration's disastrous campaign in Iraq, crude oil has reached US$100 per barrel.
It's so ironic that the Iraq invasion, ostensibly to eliminate WMDs (which weren't there) and to effect regime change (i.e. finishing off the unfinished business of Bush Snr), but which was in fact designed to safeguard Iraq's proven oil reserves, has, in fact, driven crude oil prices so high due to the vastly increased instability in that country. Furthermore, the higher oil prices have brought the idea of oil dependence and energy security into even sharper focus.
What a huge miscalculation of the outcome of the Iraq campaign by Bush Jnr's neocons.
1) Crude oil is priced in US dollars
2) The US dollar has been extremely weak recently. A month ago, Pounds1=US$2.11 and even today Pounds1=US$1.97
So these factors haven't helped much... but all the same, both Labour and the Conservative parties here in the UK would tax fuel heavily. It's easy tax revenue from a product with highly price inelastic demand. So it's not like we have a choice of party that will bring fuel taxes down. Neither party is a friend of the motorist.
We use public transportation much more heavily here in the UK. So using a car isn't seen in the UK as the 'only realistic alternative' for most people (except in very remote areas).
Also, remember that 10 years ago, crude oil was priced at about US$10 per barrel. Today, thanks mostly to the Bush administration's disastrous campaign in Iraq, crude oil has reached US$100 per barrel.
It's so ironic that the Iraq invasion, ostensibly to eliminate WMDs (which weren't there) and to effect regime change (i.e. finishing off the unfinished business of Bush Snr), but which was in fact designed to safeguard Iraq's proven oil reserves, has, in fact, driven crude oil prices so high due to the vastly increased instability in that country. Furthermore, the higher oil prices have brought the idea of oil dependence and energy security into even sharper focus.
What a huge miscalculation of the outcome of the Iraq campaign by Bush Jnr's neocons.
Jan 6, 2008 12:20:25 PM
- easy_rider911
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 22190, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
- Reply to: Heist
Re: Dec. '07 numbers are in
Quote:
Heist said:
Start raising a ruckus with your elected officials about the tax, don't re-elect or vote for those who don't favor a reduction and you'll see how fast those taxes will come down.
Here in the UK that consists of writing to one's local MP (Member of Parliament) which in reality does very little on a national level.
Not voting for those who are against a reduction in fuel taxes pre-supposes that there is a choice of party that would bring fuel taxes down (otherwise abstaining from voting just makes one invisible within the electorate). Unfortunately, such a choice doesn't exist in the UK. All the main political parties are similarly predisposed to tax fuel to the extent that it hurts the motorist in the wallet.
So we can't win...
Jan 7, 2008 9:24:41 PM
- easy_rider911
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 22190, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
- Reply to: easy_rider911
Re: Dec. '07 numbers are in
Economist article on Oil Nationalism as the real reason for high oil prices (rather than oil scarcity):
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10430264
The oil price
Peak nationalism
Jan 3rd 2008
From The Economist print edition
Oil keeps getting more expensive-but not because it is running out
NEW YEAR'S EVE has been and gone, but for oilmen, the party continues. On January 2nd, helped across the line by a New York trader eager for bragging rights, the first business day of the year, the price of their product topped $100 a barrel for the first time. Oil is now almost five times more expensive than it was at the beginning of 2002.
It would be natural to assume that ever increasing price reflects ever greater scarcity. And so it does, in a sense. Booming bits of the world, such as China, India and the Middle East have seen demand for oil grow with their economies. Meanwhile, Western oil firms, in particular, are struggling to produce any more of the stuff than they did two or three years ago. That has left little spare production capacity and, in America at least, dwindling stocks. Every time a tempest brews in the Gulf of Mexico or dark clouds appear on the political horizon in the Middle East, jittery markets have pushed prices higher. This week, it was a cold snap in America and turmoil in Nigeria that helped the price reach three figures.
No wonder, then, that the phrase "peak oil" has been gaining ground even faster than the oil price. With each extra dollar, the conviction grows that the planet has been wrung dry and will never be able to satisfy the thirst of a busy world.
Geography, not geology
Yet the fact that not enough oil is coming out of the ground does not mean not enough of it is there. There are many other explanations for the lacklustre response to the glaring price signal. For one thing, oil producers have tied their own hands. During the 1980s and 1990s, when the price was low and so were profits, they pared back hiring and investment to a minimum. Many ancillary firms that built rigs or collected seismic data shut up shop. Now oil firms want to increase their output again, they do not have the staff or equipment they need.
Worse, nowadays, new oil tends to be found in relatively inaccessible spots or in more unwieldy forms. That adds to the cost of extracting oil, because more engineers and more complex machinery are needed to exploit it-but the end of easy oil is a far remove from the jeremiads of peak-oilers. The gooey tar-sands of Canada contain almost as much oil as Saudi Arabia. Eventually, universities will churn out more geologists and shipyards more offshore platforms, though it will take a long time to make up for two decades of underinvestment.
The biggest impediment is political. Governments in almost all oil-rich countries, from Ecuador to Kazakhstan, are trying to win a greater share of the industry's bumper profits. That is natural enough, but they often deter private investment or exclude it altogether. The world's oil supply would increase markedly if Exxon Mobil and Royal Dutch Shell had freer access to Russia, Venezuela and Iran. In short, the world is facing not peak oil, but a pinnacle of nationalism.
None of that will help consumers or governments. The economic toll of expensive oil is just as high whether geology or politics is to blame-and the best response is just the same. Policy should encourage energy efficiency and support research into alternative fuels. Governments seeking to shield their citizens with subsidies or price caps should instead expose them to the full cost to foster frugality. All this will be hard and unpopular. But politicians might console themselves with the thought that even the most recalcitrant petro-regime is more malleable than the brute realities of geology.
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10430264
The oil price
Peak nationalism
Jan 3rd 2008
From The Economist print edition
Oil keeps getting more expensive-but not because it is running out
NEW YEAR'S EVE has been and gone, but for oilmen, the party continues. On January 2nd, helped across the line by a New York trader eager for bragging rights, the first business day of the year, the price of their product topped $100 a barrel for the first time. Oil is now almost five times more expensive than it was at the beginning of 2002.
It would be natural to assume that ever increasing price reflects ever greater scarcity. And so it does, in a sense. Booming bits of the world, such as China, India and the Middle East have seen demand for oil grow with their economies. Meanwhile, Western oil firms, in particular, are struggling to produce any more of the stuff than they did two or three years ago. That has left little spare production capacity and, in America at least, dwindling stocks. Every time a tempest brews in the Gulf of Mexico or dark clouds appear on the political horizon in the Middle East, jittery markets have pushed prices higher. This week, it was a cold snap in America and turmoil in Nigeria that helped the price reach three figures.
No wonder, then, that the phrase "peak oil" has been gaining ground even faster than the oil price. With each extra dollar, the conviction grows that the planet has been wrung dry and will never be able to satisfy the thirst of a busy world.
Geography, not geology
Yet the fact that not enough oil is coming out of the ground does not mean not enough of it is there. There are many other explanations for the lacklustre response to the glaring price signal. For one thing, oil producers have tied their own hands. During the 1980s and 1990s, when the price was low and so were profits, they pared back hiring and investment to a minimum. Many ancillary firms that built rigs or collected seismic data shut up shop. Now oil firms want to increase their output again, they do not have the staff or equipment they need.
Worse, nowadays, new oil tends to be found in relatively inaccessible spots or in more unwieldy forms. That adds to the cost of extracting oil, because more engineers and more complex machinery are needed to exploit it-but the end of easy oil is a far remove from the jeremiads of peak-oilers. The gooey tar-sands of Canada contain almost as much oil as Saudi Arabia. Eventually, universities will churn out more geologists and shipyards more offshore platforms, though it will take a long time to make up for two decades of underinvestment.
The biggest impediment is political. Governments in almost all oil-rich countries, from Ecuador to Kazakhstan, are trying to win a greater share of the industry's bumper profits. That is natural enough, but they often deter private investment or exclude it altogether. The world's oil supply would increase markedly if Exxon Mobil and Royal Dutch Shell had freer access to Russia, Venezuela and Iran. In short, the world is facing not peak oil, but a pinnacle of nationalism.
None of that will help consumers or governments. The economic toll of expensive oil is just as high whether geology or politics is to blame-and the best response is just the same. Policy should encourage energy efficiency and support research into alternative fuels. Governments seeking to shield their citizens with subsidies or price caps should instead expose them to the full cost to foster frugality. All this will be hard and unpopular. But politicians might console themselves with the thought that even the most recalcitrant petro-regime is more malleable than the brute realities of geology.
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
