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    Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese GP!

    Latest news:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7027743.stm

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese GP!

    As I said in the previous thread of Fuji GP race, Hamilton's manoeuvres behind the safety car are FORBIDDEN for this year championship, and therefore something must be done, specially when a stupid accident takes place behind following a safety car at very slow speeds, and even more when Mark Webber and Sebastian Webber are 2nd and 3rd, for their first time!....

    Its true that Vettel's crash was his fault, but I'm sure Hamilton manoeuvres behind SC at lap 46 really helped!..

    Apparently A Japanese fan who was in the perfect angle, record the entire scene, and send it to FIA (Ferrari International Assistance )

    I'm sure this guy is a big fan of Hamilton

    Here is the link to the video, what are your thoughts?

    Of course it was Vettel fault, but Hamilton's brakes are excellent , and add to the equation that it was raining!....

    Well I'm sure FIA isnt going to erase his 10points of Japan, neither a 10 position penalty....why?, oh cammon do I have to say it?

    thanks easy !

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese GP!

    ups, forgot the link!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hWIfBkVQUk



    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Remember the press conference after the race on Sunday? If you didn't missed it Hamilton said that the Red Bull drivers were driving uncomfortably too close behind him. Hamilton even said that moments before the crash he talked to the team over radio telling them to report to the Red Bull team that their drivers are driving too close behind him.

    That probably led to Hamilton driving like he did which contributed to the crash. Accidents happen when the track is wet, especially when people aren't cautions enough. Vettel nudged Alonso making his car spin and Kubica(correct me if I'm wrong) did the same to Hamilton.

    So you can understand Hamilton's concern. He does have material which can hold up well on Friday.

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Just saw the video. Hamilton MUST be punished, regardless

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Video removed....

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Quote:
    Alex18_996CC said:
    ups, forgot the link!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hWIfBkVQUk






    "

    This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Formula One Management"

    I saw it and...

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QJurnfxRm4

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    I think that our attention is focused so heavily on this episode not because of our deep safety concerns in F1 but because it's the end stages of this year's F1 season.

    BTW how come this enquiry (not into a technical aspect but into driving practices) is being launched so many days after the race? There's definitely some kind of political undertone here...

    One way of looking at what happened is to say that Hamilton accelerated and braked erratically "with no rhythm" (to quote Webber and Vettel).

    Another way of looking at it would be to say that he was driving behind a safety car in the wet with poor visibility and that he was concerned that Webber was driving much too close behind him.

    Was Webber at fault? Was Webber driving too close or was Hamilton bunching the cars up behind him to get a good restart behind the safety car?

    Another issue: was Hamilton ENTIRELY to blame for Webber crashing into the back of him OR was Hamilton only partly responsible or not at fault at all? It would be very harsh IMO to dock a driver all 10 points for being partly to blame. It takes a huge effort to win a race especially qualifying well and the race peformance itself. Docking Hamilton all 10 points wipes out his entire achievement for that day all for an incident that at best one could argue he partly contributed to. Seems really draconian punishment to me. I hope common sense and wisdom will prevail.

    Note also that the complaints have come from the 2 drivers Webber and Vettel. They COULD be trying to blame someone else for them not finishing the race. They didn't lodge their protests during the race or just after the race. It was after they watched the TV footage and possibly after they had their post-race de-briefing. They might well have been under internal team pressure to justify their non-finishes.

    At the end of the day, IMHO it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Even video evidence isn't always totally conclusive since what would be considered erratic driving and what wouldn't be considered erratic driving is very much a judgement call.

    I think if there was a realistic chance of Hamilton having ALL his points from Fuji deducted, Alonso would be all over it like a rash. He would be briefing the Spanish media to enable them to speculate in his favour...but in a recent interview, he was still talking about his 'mathematical' chances once again, not about having the 12 point lead cut to a 2 point lead as a result of this enquiry.

    It seems like the Driver's Championship may be heavily influenced by a bunch of bureaucrats rather than out on the race track. A little like elections getting decided in the courtroom rather than by the ballot box. It brings shame upon the whole process.

    I know that some here will say I'm just sticking up for a fellow Brit. Honestly I'm not. If subsequent evidence proves Hamilton was totally at fault, I will be the first to call for his punishment. Justice is justice whilst many wrongs are done in the name of patriotism.

    Let the media circus begin.....AGAIN!

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Easy, you become little bit too big Hamilton fan lately IMHO.

    Hamilton is excellent driver but, nice person or so? NOT IMO. As it is he deserves World Title but, in this specific case he made an MISTAKE, a huge one...

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Maybe you're right KresoF1 - maybe I have allowed the Hamilton-fever to affect me, but honestly, I'm trying really hard not to let my national bias affect my judgement.

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Maybe you're right KresoF1 - maybe I have allowed the Hamilton-fever to affect me, but honestly, I'm trying really hard not to let my national bias affect my judgement.



    Hamilton is the best. He deserves the title

    P.S.: Alonso (who has admitted his personal and significant involvement into the espionage affair without being punished for his immoral actions) should not get another chance based on a court room decision

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    IMO, Hamilton was worse when being followed by Alonso, while following the pace car. In fact, I'm surprised Alonso managed not to hit him several times.

    However, IMO Hamilton drove a terrific race and deserved to win. Perhaps he should have been warned during the race - not now.

    If they do deduct his points or penalize him somehow, the F1 Drivers Championship will resemble the Tour Du France - not good!

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    As this story has developed during today, it now seems that Alonso has jumped onto the bandwagon clammering for his own team mate to be punished...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7027743.stm

    Alonso has been guilty of bunching the cars behind him too when he has been the first car behind the safety car...Alonso wasn't even affected by this alleged wrongdoing...he only stands to gain from his team mate being punished...how low can Alonso stoop? Does he have no integrity at all? I guess not.

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    This is for me the last drop.
    In my eyes Alonso just got the sub-human status.

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Here's the extract from the BBC article:

    <Start of quote>

    Alonso crashed out of the race on lap 41 prompting the reintroduction of the safety car which ultimately led to the controversial incident involving Webber and Vettel.

    The Spaniard, who was behind Hamilton for the opening 19 laps of the race under the safety car, said: "I also overtook Lewis two or three times, so it seems that we all agree.

    "It's difficult to know what the car in front of you needs to do.

    "I didn't see the race on TV but, hearing the comments of the drivers, they seemed to overtake the car in front a couple of times and had to make some unnecessary manoeuvres to avoid the cars in front."

    If Hamilton does have his 10 points from Japan wiped out, Alonso will be only two points adrift in the race for the title and he says he has not given up hope of winning a third consecutive championship.

    "I believe in miracles for sure," he continued.

    "I think anything can happen - this is Formula One - until mathematically you have no chance in the championship, you don't give up.

    "F1 is unpredictable sometimes and we have seen it many times, especially in wet races - if maybe it is raining again on Sunday then anything can happen."

    <End of quote>

    Truly great people don't just care about winning, they also care deeply about how they win.

    I thought Alonso had fallen to the very lowest point he could fall to when he participated in the 'spying' scandal but was granted whistleblower's immunity. Sadly I was mistaken. He has now stooped to even lower depths.

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Team McLaren this year proved to be a disreputable organization. Whatever on track embroglio their drivers cause is small beans compared to their purloining of Ferrari's technical data.

    Should Hamilton be penalized for his dodge car driving tactics behind the pace car? Yes. Anyone else would be.
    Hamilton cant expect carte blanche to be a jerk behind the safety car.

    Team McLaren has already buried the Union Jack in the manure pile. They simply have no shame and not a shred of decency left on that team. Hold your nose if you want to fly that flag!

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Remember Suzuka 1997, two races to go, Villeneuve had 9 points lead to Schumacher and pole position. On race day he recived penalty because he drove "to fast" through yelow flags on warm up. Penalty was, he can race but he wont get any points in Japan. So FIA (Ferrari Intenational Assitence) helped Schumacher to be back in battle for championship and season was more interesting because it was decided on last race.

    I hope Hamilton wont get any penalty, but you never know.. FIA wants open championship until last race, and I wont be suprised if he gets for example +25 seconds on Fuji race , which means he would lost win and get 5th position; or he gets + 10 places on grid in China...

    But I dont see anything wrong with his driving. Vettel was behind and if he looks everything else and not driver in front of him, then this is his fault. Hamilton have some good reasons why he drove outside - Webber was driving too closely and dangerously behind him, he wanted to avoid him or show him to give some space between them. Also Hamilton had to keep his brakes warm and his tire temperatures up... Ive seen driving like that many times and nobody recived penalty for that.

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    ...who has admitted his personal and significant involvement into the espionage affair



    Please elaborate.

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    ...who has admitted his personal and significant involvement into the espionage affair



    Please elaborate.



    Alonso was reciving informations about Ferrari from Pedro de la Rosa. He also blackmail Ron Dennis, if he dont get status 1 in team, he will send evidence to FIA and to Eccelstone. He also sent evidence to FIA and this was base for McLaren`s penalty.

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese GP!

    Hamilton broke the rules of Article 40.10 of the F1 Sporting Regulations, simple as that.

    Of course he should get some sort of penalty. It could be everything from getting 25 seconds added to his finish time (like Liuzzi got) or 10 places down the grid in the next race (as Vettel got), or losing his 10 points from last race.

    I hope that everybody on this thread is in favor of penalties when you break the rules and regulations, independent of the name of the driver.

    /Per

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese GP!

    Quote:
    Per said:
    Hamilton broke the rules of Article 40.10 of the F1 Sporting Regulations, simple as that.

    I hope that everybody on this thread is in favor of penalties when you break the rules and regulations, independent of the name of the driver.

    /Per



    From the Gaurdian Today....

    The current formula one regulations require that the race leader must keep a constant distance behind the safety car until the lap before it is due to come into the pits. The sporting regulations say: "The safety car shall be used at least until the leader is behind it and all remaining cars are lined up behind him. Once behind the safety car, the race leader must keep within five car lengths of it."

    Scuderia Toro Rosso team principal Franz Tost admitted that he approached the race stewards in China to complain about Hamilton's tactics behind the safety car in Japan. Tost said he was prompted into making the approach after he was made aware of a YouTube video of the incident when his driver Vettel ran into the back of Webber.

    Tost said he felt the video showed Hamilton's driving was not strictly appropriate. "You could see quite clearly that Hamilton slows down quite unexpectedly," said Tost. "Look at the video. Sebastian would have had to have gone between the cars [Webber and Hamilton] and there was no chance. It was totally unexpected. It looked like Hamilton was stopping, that is why I went to the stewards."

    Tost said his motivation for visiting the stewards was more to see Vettel's 10-place grid penalty for causing the accident annulled, rather than seeing Hamilton punished. The McLaren team had no comment to make on either the allegation or the suggestion that Hamilton should be censured by the stewards.

    ###

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    What about Schumacher in Monza a few years ago or in Zeltweg when he almost stopped behind safety car ? Why he didnt get penalty ?

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    According to regulations, Hamilton fukced up.
    "The safety car shall be used at least until the leader is behind it and all remaining cars are lined up behind him. Once behind the safety car, the race leader must keep within five car lengths of it."

    Check these two pics:
    1) Sudden move/accelleration on the inside of the SC
    2) Slowing down dramatically, almost stopping and at the same time not staying within 5 cars of SC as he should. He wasnt even 10 cars from it which you can clearly see later in the same clip. (Hamilton can be seen on the far right)

    Granted, the conditions were very difficult - but it seems unlikely that the same driver who manages to increase the distance to his competitors in even more rain and at much higher speed later in the race, cannot manage to keep a steady, safe distance to the safety car. It just doesnt add up.

    The proof is in the footage on Youtube.
    His move on the right inside of the SC, almost passing it, makes no sense - and it definately had nothing to do with traffic from behind. Noone was near him.

    He's done amazingly well this year - but he still needs to follow the same rules as anyone else, regardless of whomever might benefit from him getting stripped of points etc

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Maybe you're right KresoF1 - maybe I have allowed the Hamilton-fever to affect me, but honestly, I'm trying really hard not to let my national bias affect my judgement.



    Hehehe...yeah. And how would you say u are doing so far?
    Easy, check the video.
    Hamilton-fan or not, you will have a hard time saying he stayed within the rules.
    As for the political behind-the-scenes games, that's a completely different story.
    Focussing on this particular event, noone behind the scene made him drive the way he did - so if he gets a punishment, he pretty much brought it on himself.

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Watch the SC as it goes through the corner. From the angle shown in the video does the SC pick up speed quickly? As if he, SC driver, realizes that Hamilton has had to take action to avoid hitting the SC. And no, I do not have an axe to grind.

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    I have had a look at the footage just now. It is strange that Hamilton went so far off the line behind the SC but then that is not an excuse for Vettel to take his eyes off and crash into Webber....

    To take away the points just because of that is harsh IMHO.

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Quote:
    moto said:
    I have had a look at the footage just now. It is strange that Hamilton went so far off the line behind the SC but then that is not an excuse for Vettel to take his eyes off and crash into Webber....

    To take away the points just because of that is harsh IMHO.



    True, deducting points may be harsh - unless experts find that the video footage shows he did this on pupose - but surely some kind of punishment wouldnt be unfair.
    He drove very erratically...

    Re: Hamilton may lose his points from the Japanese

    Quote:
    Shakal said:


    But I dont see anything wrong with his driving. Vettel was behind and if he looks everything else and not driver in front of him, then this is his fault. Hamilton have some good reasons why he drove outside - Webber was driving too closely and dangerously behind him, he wanted to avoid him or show him to give some space between them. Also Hamilton had to keep his brakes warm and his tire temperatures up... Ive seen driving like that many times and nobody recived penalty for that.



    You are correct. Webber and Vettel(mainly) screwed up.

    Follow the leader.

    That was not a racing situation, no need to be so close. I have seen much more wild actions over the years in similiar situations.

    Hamilton may lose his points from Japanese GP

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Team McLaren has already buried the Union Jack in the manure pile..... Hold your nose if you want to fly that flag!



    Jim, these comments don't suit you. You're far better than that...

     
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