Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Cab/Coupe - Page1

Jul 22, 2004 8:12:01 PM

Wolfman: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 17, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2004

Cab/Coupe

First - I'm new to the 911 so take this with a pinch of salt. No intention to cause distress with this post just my observations.

I recently tried out a C4S Tip Cabriolet and a C4S Manual Coupe with PSE. First, I like hard edged sports/touring cars, my last play car was a Merc. 190 Evolution. I took a Cab out for a drive and was frankly disappointed. I could feel the chassis flex, the steering felt woolly and the acceleration whilst strong didn't seem anything to write home about. Of course the Car is beautiful to behold.

Today I drove a coupe and I can't believe the difference. Obviously it sounded better due to the PSE, but there was a lot more urge with the manual box, the car felt hewn from rock, and the handling was a lot better. Basically, I thought maybe the 911 wasn't for me until I took this baby out, now I'm hooked!!

I know it's horses for courses, but why is there such a character change between the two versions? Is that intentional?

As for me, I'm putting an order in for a 997S as soon as I can. Red, black int., PSE, Sports chron., Sports seats & Sunroof. Thinks thats all I'll need. It's waiting till next April for delivery which is gonna kill me!

Hope I haven't offended anyone, just my personal opinion!

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Jul 22, 2004 8:54:21 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Wolfman

Re: Cab/Coupe

Quote:
Wolfman said:
I recently tried out a C4S Tip Cabriolet and a C4S Manual Coupe with PSE. First, I like hard edged sports/touring cars, my last play car was a Merc. 190 Evolution. I took a Cab out for a drive and was frankly disappointed. I could feel the chassis flex, the steering felt woolly and the acceleration whilst strong didn't seem anything to write home about. Of course the Car is beautiful to behold.

Tip cabrio and manual coupe really are two steps removed from each other, which would explain their different perceived characters. Cabrio is less "hewn from stone", as you said, and tip is less "immediate".

So just how many distinct variants of the 911 model should we really be counting?

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Jul 23, 2004 10:45:25 AM

SpeedGeek: Junior; Loc: Jo'burg, S. Africa; Posts: 50, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2002; Reply to: Wolfman

Re: Cab/Coupe

Hi Wolfman, you sound a little confused. You said "I like hard edged sports/touring cars". What is a hard-edged touring car? Also, the only hard-edged 911s are the GT2/3. The others are really more GTs than hard-edged sports cars. The C4S tip cab is the exact opposite of hard-edged (and sadly, the best selling 911). Why did you not try a regular, garden-variety Carrera-2 coupe stick? Still not hard-edged, but a lot better than the C4S cab tip.

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Jul 23, 2004 2:00:08 PM

Wolfman: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 17, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2004; Reply to: SpeedGeek

Re: Cab/Coupe

Hiya,

First a hard edged old school touring car is a Mercedes 190 Evolution II.

Porsche wise, I can only try what's available to me and unfortunately the only dealers in my area have 4S demonstrators. The first one I drove was the Cab as it was the only Car available. I don't know why the dealers around here only have C4S demonstrators maybe because they're scared of people ending up going backwards into hedges. One of my dealers said they won't offer test drives in a GT3 as the last one they had was written off. Believe me, I've tried to get a test drive in a GT3 as I would love one of those, but I am yet to drive it so I don't know if it's suitable and can't find any local UK dealer with a GT3 willing to offer test drives.

My preference at the moment is a 997S as it's 2WD with the extra power. I don't want 4WD for the reasons you state. I have to admit, although I love hard sports cars, this car does have to be somewhat of a compromise as I will be driving as my main car. Being unable to drive a GT3 makes it difficult to assess if it would be suitable for this task - for me, I know the other 911's are by default. I am very green when it comes to Porsches so anyone in the south of the UK with a GT3 care to give me a ride?

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Jul 23, 2004 2:05:13 PM

Wolfman: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 17, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2004; Reply to: Wolfman

Re: Cab/Coupe

Oh - I see the confusion. "Touring Car" as in BTCC & DTM etc.

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Jul 23, 2004 2:50:40 PM

SpeedGeek: Junior; Loc: Jo'burg, S. Africa; Posts: 50, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2002; Reply to: Wolfman

Re: Cab/Coupe

Well I consider a touring car to be a luxury car with sporting abilities. If it's hard-edged, that would ruin the 'luxury' part. Hence my assertion that there is no such thing as a hard-edged touring car (like 'military intelligence').

Most people who buy Porsches these days are buying the badge and the bling. This explains the success of the utterly pointless, hog-like Cayenne. And it also explains why dealers will have the showiest, least sporty, 911 as demonstrators.

Personally I find all the non-gt 911s to be lacking as sports cars (Turbo included). Not in their abilities, but in their attitude. They are extremely capable, but they focus more on comfort than on razor-edged sharpness.

But that is why Porsche also makes the GT3 and GT2. If you're a true sports car enthusiast, one drive in either of these and you're hooked forever. I use my GT3 as my main car, but it can be tiresome at times. Still, the constant grin is well worth the hassle.

While I guess a 997S with sports suspension will be a real sports car, I strongly suggest you at least try a GT3. If you're like me, no other 911 will come close.

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Jul 23, 2004 4:42:10 PM

Wolfman: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 17, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2004; Reply to: SpeedGeek

Re: Cab/Coupe

It sounds like we sing from the same hymn sheet except for:

>Hence my assertion that there is no such thing as a hard-edged touring car

There are a few DTM cars out there like the M3 Evo's and Merc Evo's that are pretty hard edge..

Me thinks you're being "Porsche-ist" !

I will try and get my hands on a GT3 drive. I'm sure like you, I'll be hooked.

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Jul 23, 2004 4:58:31 PM

Wolfman: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 17, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2004; Reply to: Wolfman

Re: Cab/Coupe

Evo II

http://de.geocities.com/nilsmoker/evo2/evo2_main.htm

Video 17 & 13

http://home.t-online.de/home/thomasbubel/bcvideo.htm

Can't find any of my favourite vids showing the II at the Ring, Hockenheim etc.. That's what happens when you have about 3000 pages in your favourites..

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Jul 23, 2004 7:44:03 PM

SpeedGeek: Junior; Loc: Jo'burg, S. Africa; Posts: 50, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2002; Reply to: Wolfman

Re: Cab/Coupe

Quote:
Wolfman said:
There are a few DTM cars out there like the M3 Evo's and Merc Evo's that are pretty hard edge.. Me thinks you're being "Porsche-ist" !

I think it's just semantics; If you take a touring car and make it hard-edged, you then have a sports car IMHO. So nothing to do with the brand or the number of doors - sports cars are hard and loud, touring cars are quieter and more friendly. I think the current generation of non-gt 911s are somewhere in the middle, but they're closer to the 'touring' end than the 'sports' end. The tip cabs are definitely more tourer than sports car.

Anyway, I think the GT3 makes an excellent tourer. Check out my road-trip story:
GT3 Road Trip Story
GT3 Road Trip Pictures

You MUST drive a GT3 before buying anything else. I made the mistake of buying a 996 C4 thinking I had realized my sports car dreams. Then one day I drove a GT3 and that was that for the C4. The GT3 is the real dream! My brother has a 996 Turbo - he can have it - it's no GT3!

There is one caveat with the GT3 though - it's ok as a main car, but it can't be your only car. The front lip is so low that there are places it just won't go (parking lot ramps, etc).

BTW, that Merc Evo looks like a blast.

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Jul 24, 2004 1:58:23 AM

Wolfman: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 17, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2004; Reply to: SpeedGeek

Re: Cab/Coupe

Good luck for the Rugby tomorrow Speedgeek. Kiwi here!!!

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Jul 24, 2004 1:56:27 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59188, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Wolfman

Re: Cab/Coupe

Quote:
Wolfman said:
First a hard edged old school touring car is a Mercedes 190 Evolution II

Maybe 10 years ago?

No offense taken...

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Jul 25, 2004 7:29:18 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: SpeedGeek

Re: Cab/Coupe

Quote:
SpeedGeek said:
Check out my road-trip story:
GT3 Road Trip Story
GT3 Road Trip Pictures

One of the best road trip stories I've read. Thanks for sharing, SpeedGeek.

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Jul 25, 2004 11:13:05 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8208, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: Cab/Coupe

Quote:
MAVERICK said:
Quote:
SpeedGeek said:
Check out my road-trip story:
GT3 Road Trip Story
GT3 Road Trip Pictures

One of the best road trip stories I've read. Thanks for sharing, SpeedGeek.

I share your opinion!

How many racetracks do you have in your region? How is the police on normal - non-X-mas - days?

By the way, any other road stories coming up...?

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Jul 26, 2004 10:33:21 AM

SpeedGeek: Junior; Loc: Jo'burg, S. Africa; Posts: 50, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2002; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Cab/Coupe

Quote:
How many racetracks do you have in your region? How is the police on normal - non-X-mas - days?

There are a few decent tracks around here including Kyalami which used to be one of the F1 venues back in the day.

Regarding the police, well this is Africa. So a traffic stop can often be "smoothed over" with a lightly greased palm. Problem is that if the cop happens to be honest, speeds over 200 km/h could well land you in jail for the day (speed limit is 120 km/h). However, way out in the desert on Christmas day is generally a safe bet. There is something to be said for owning a GT3 in a country with first-world roads and third-world police.

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Jul 26, 2004 11:07:03 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8208, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: SpeedGeek

Re: Cab/Coupe

Of course I know Kyalami - Sauber, and probably other teams, used to test sometimes in the spring because of appropriate temperatures and humidity.

I suppose I understood "greasy palms" the right way...
Did you pick up the car in Germany?

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Jul 26, 2004 4:17:49 PM

SpeedGeek: Junior; Loc: Jo'burg, S. Africa; Posts: 50, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2002; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Cab/Coupe

Quote:
Did you pick up the car in Germany?

I bought the car from the local dealer here in Johannesburg. There is but one dealer in S. Africa with typically monopolistic pricing, but it is a big and very good dealership. They even have a CGT on the floor, but they can't sell it because it's not legal to sell a new car in S. Africa that is LHD.

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Jul 26, 2004 8:49:44 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: SpeedGeek

Re: Cab/Coupe

Quote:
SpeedGeek said:
However, way out in the desert on Christmas day is generally a safe bet.

What about carjacking or even kidnapping? Does one need to take any precautions in the city or the desert?

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Jul 26, 2004 9:37:32 PM

SpeedGeek: Junior; Loc: Jo'burg, S. Africa; Posts: 50, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2002; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: Cab/Coupe

Quote:
What about carjacking or even kidnapping? Does one need to take any precautions in the city or the desert?

Sadly, crime in S.A. is a very serious problem. Kidnappings are rare (although we had one just last week), but carjacking is the real problem. About half the people I know have been carjacked, and two of my friends have actually been shot in the process, both ok fortunately.

But here's the interesting thing - the best way to not get carjacked is to drive a Porsche. Drive a 3-series Bimmer, and you might as well paint a big bullseye on the car. Same goes for MBenz, and even inexpensive cars like Camrys etc. But in a Porsche you're almost completely safe from carjackings. Not certain why, but probably because there is no local market for hot Porsches.

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Jul 26, 2004 10:38:04 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8208, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: SpeedGeek

Re: Cab/Coupe

Damn, that sounds tough! A friend of mine is going to J'burg in December but since she is visiting a family I shouldn't worry too much.

The 3-series issue is probably, why BMW offers a bullet-proof model - and I heard about flamethrowers installed underneath the front doors to keep carjackers of the car!
There was also a report on TV about the tough business of towing companies in SA...

Weird enough that you can feel rather safe in a Porsche - one more personal question, are you born in SA? If yes, have you lived in any other country?

Greetings from raining Europe!

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Jul 27, 2004 12:24:23 AM

SpeedGeek: Junior; Loc: Jo'burg, S. Africa; Posts: 50, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2002; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Cab/Coupe

I think that flamethrower thing was deemed illegal some years back. I would have loved to see one in action

Born and grew up in SA till I was 26, then lived in California for 17 years, now back here over a year but certainly not permanently.

Don't worry about your friend. Somehow life goes on completely as normal here. Everyone just puts the crime issue in the back of their minds. You just get to accept lots of high walls with electric-fencing and locked gates. And every now and then you'll hear of someone being carjacked or mugged, usually without injury.

Yet the country is generally upbeat with a relatively strong economy and a hopeful outlook. So who knows the future? Like everywhere, I believe it will come down to the balance between corruption and the rule of law. For now, SA seems to be enjoying a fairly decent continuation of its historically strong kinda 1st-world economy, and if you earn fairly well it's not a bad life (just ignore the crime). The weather is fantastic (especially in December), and for people who like driving enthusiastically, SA is particularly fun

if a little dangerous.

What country are you in?

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Jul 27, 2004 5:41:57 AM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: SpeedGeek

Re: Cab/Coupe

my friends and I are VERY anxious to goto south africa, if I could only find the time!!! UGH!

sounds like a great place from all the things i hear from various people i've talked to who moved away from / live there.

as for the CGT in that SA dealer,... so what're they gonna do with it?

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Jul 27, 2004 10:47:04 AM

SpeedGeek: Junior; Loc: Jo'burg, S. Africa; Posts: 50, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2002; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Cab/Coupe

Hi Moogle, find the time - SA is a great place to visit and a nice break from a NY winter. Not much of interest in Johannesburg (unless you're on business) but Cape Town and all along the South and Eastern coastline is truly spectacular. Jan/Feb is the best time although anytime in the summer is good. And do the Bloukrans Bungee jump near Plettenberg Bay - it's the highest in the world!

Regarding that CGT, I'm not sure what the story is - seems like a lot of money to be sitting on the floor with no chance of a sale. What they told me is that the car was ordered and has actually been purchased by a customer who is now trying to figure out a way to register the thing for use on the road. And until that happens, customs apparently will not release the car to him, so it's in bond at the dealer. Not sure how he plans to register an illegal car, but in Africa that palm grease can do wonders I guess. Anyway, it's been sitting at the dealer for a few weeks now which is fine by me - I enjoy going down there occasionally and just looking at the thing. It's magnificent to behold - the engine bay in particular is a wonderland of carbon and alloy. Guess I should take a camera down there before it disappears.

I see you have an M3 SMG. I did a BMW day at Kyalami a few weeks back. We had access to some regular M3 SMGs, and also some CSLs. The idea was to do a few laps in each car back-to-back to compare the regular vs the CSL. We had instructors and you can imagine it was a very fun day. Interesting to see how good the M3 is on the track, and then how much better the CSL is. But the CSL's price is no joke.

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Jul 27, 2004 2:30:15 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8208, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: SpeedGeek

Re: Cab/Coupe

Hi Speedgeek, thanks for your info. I personally prefer to go to places where I feel safe - at least on the holidays. But as you said, I hope things will turn out well in the near future and I'd consider going to SA.

I'm from Germany and Africa is the only country I haven't visited yet - well, I suppose you don't take Canarian Islands into account...

Regarding the CGT, I could imagine there are ways to register it in SA or in another country and just drive it down there. If you register it in Germany, you have to go back every two years for TUEV (technical check-up, mandatory every one to three years depending on vehicle type and age). The CGT's owner should be able to afford the "airmail"...

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Jul 28, 2004 12:10:19 AM

Wolfman: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 17, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Cab/Coupe

Finding it nigh on impossible to secure a drive in a GT3 in the south of england. Looks like I'll be waiting a while. Never mind, prob. plonk down a deposit for a 997 then if a GT3 becomes available will try that on for size. Thanks for the advice.

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