Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp - Page1

Dec 30, 2005 2:09:22 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004

Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Seems like our engines will never lug. I mean the darn things have so much torque/hp you can do side streets at 1200rpm in fifth gear if you want; the engine never seems to complain

I betcha most of us are revving WAY too high, being used to smaller engines in our hondas or toyotas of days past.

When my BMW with SMG is in "auto" mode the computer picks a VERY low rpm and never lugs. Since the engines are comparable, and the computer knows best, Gives me a clue that we're probably cruising at a much too high RPM, hence more engine wear and gas consumption.

Sheesch, you can basically throw our cars in third gear and keep it there all day!

Means that these cars are geared and powered to be raced!?

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Dec 30, 2005 2:14:23 AM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Driving a constant speed is OK but don't try to accelerate hard from 1200 rpm in fifth!

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Dec 30, 2005 10:09:47 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: GA997S

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

I know; low rev acceleration in my 997CS is VERY disappointing! I seriously have MORE pull in my Audi S3 (1.8L Turbo) and that has turbo lag!

I wanted a NA car so that I could get out of trouble quick if I needed to, but I find that I still need to be in the right gear at the right time to do this even after the move from Turbo to NA.

I think performance-wise this is the biggest let down of buying the car.

CAR MAX BHP MAX TORQUE WEIGHT
Audi S3 250 300Nm Just under 1.5 tonne
997S 355 400Nm Just under 1.5 tonne

So in theory the Porsche should have a lot more pull - at least looking at their 'max' values.

Ignoring the power kit figures - the dotted lines show that the best torque for the Carrera S is about 4500

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Dec 30, 2005 10:47:07 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

I belive this is a very personal feeling. Few days ago(before snow!) I tried VW Golf GTI(new one 200hp-280Nm) and to me my Boxster S(987) has more power in mid revs(3000-4000). Only where GTI felt stronger was around 2000rpm but, after that goodbye to GTI! This is the reason that to me it is strange that your 997S feels underpowered(in low revs) comparing to S3(225hp version?), especiallly since new GTI is using latest generation turbo FSI engine almost without turbo leg...

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Dec 30, 2005 11:27:34 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Maybe it's just that with a (chipped) Turbo you get a good turbo surge when it does kick in - against a Normally Aspirated car that is more progressive with the power (so you don't notice it as much).

I'm sure the Porsche is indeed faster, it's just the sudden G-force acceleration that I'm addicted to and long for!

I don't use sport mode that much (given the rubbish traffic and weather here in the UK at the moment) so maybe that will make more a difference come the summer!

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Dec 30, 2005 11:57:15 AM

moto: Senior; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 8, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

may be a "downgrade" to a 996 Turbo would solve your problems!?

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Dec 30, 2005 12:53:41 PM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: GA997S

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Quote:
GA997S said:
Driving a constant speed is OK but don't try to accelerate hard from 1200 rpm in fifth!

Actually, I'd stay above 2000 rpm for 3rd & 4th then higher for 5th or 6th... even if the car doesn't seem to mind.

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Dec 30, 2005 4:46:01 PM

KiwiCanuck: Co-Pilot; Loc: Canada; Posts: 210, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 14, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Hello Alex,

Wierd stuff ----- well it is true that the Audi has a flat torque curve, with almost diesel like torque low down.

Why did you buy the 997? Without driving it? Its engine is extraordinarily torquey for a sports car ----- one has enormous performance without reving above 5500rpm. And the pull from even 3000rpm is amazing --- and better than the Audi for goodness sake --- look at your own numbers ---unless your 997 is 'sick'.

I did the maths from the 997 curves and the gearing, and although one gains quite a lot by going to 7300rpm, the 5500 values allows you to beat most other cars on the road.

You should never drive an NSX, as its torque comes way higher in the range ---

Siggestions: trade for a 997-tiptronic so you don't have to drive well, but just floor it if in trouble; sell the 997 and buy a performance diesel; buy a Mustang (Auto-sigh).

Sad you are so unhappy -----

KiwiCanuck

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Dec 30, 2005 6:18:40 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: KiwiCanuck

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Hang on hang on. I never said I was 'unhappy' with my beautiful new 997 Carrera S Cab! I am just being picky here, so a small criticism of a wonderful car. I guess I expected near perfection when I pay the equiv of $140k for an iconic Porsche 911.

However, if you offered me a straight swap for a new 997 TT I would probably decline - I love it THAT much! It's so much more than raw power; it's such a gorgeous car for starters

I did indeed drive the car before I bought it, and I had a demo C4S Cab for a couple of days beforehand - so I knew what to expect. I have also seen on this site many many people saying that 380bhp would have been perfect for the Carrera S, so I'm not alone on wishing the non X51 version had a bit more power as standard.

When I first bought my Audi I was literally pinned to the back of my seat as I accelerated. Over the last 2 years though I think acclimated to the G-forces and now find that car fairly slow.

When I bought my 997 a few weeks back I expected that big step up again and a return to being thrown back in my seat. However, no such luck with anything under about 5500rpm. Above this, the 997 totally destroys the Audi, below this the Audi is about the same (at least from where I am sitting in the drivers seat). It may though, as I say, just be a perception thing...

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Dec 30, 2005 6:22:20 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Quote:
Alex (UK) said:
I know; low rev acceleration in my 997CS is VERY disappointing! I seriously have MORE pull in my Audi S3 (1.8L Turbo) and that has turbo lag!

This is a sports car... downshift to put the engine in the torque band. I never feel lack of pull in my car

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Dec 30, 2005 6:39:46 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: ADias

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Oh I try to do so as often as possible as I'm totally adicted to the sound of the Helmholtz resonator!

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Dec 30, 2005 6:41:17 PM

Kevin034: Pilot; Loc: WA; Posts: 393, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 7, 2005; Reply to: ADias

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

i actually have the reversed version of the problem. I can't stand cars that pulls in lower rpms. The car is like "mumblemumblemumblemumblemumble" and you see the speed increase. So what, you dont' hear anything.

i love cars that pull in the higher rpms. M3, M5, C2S, F430, basically anything that has an engine that just screams.

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Dec 30, 2005 6:53:39 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Kevin034

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

I agree with you Kev! But, in Europe many people like small GTIs with turbo engines... They like sudden blast of power after turbo lug(small or big)! But, we know there is nothing like high reving non-turbo engine(except, maybe new 997t??). I just love my Boxster S(987) and M3(E46)-for me it is very hard to wait till march 2006 when my 997S coupe arrives!

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Dec 30, 2005 6:55:19 PM

madadd: Co-Pilot; Loc: uk; Posts: 240, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 4, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

I put a lot of it down to the way in which the chassis handles power. And how the car feels.

Maybe your Audi felt quicker cos it struggled far more to cope with what it had. The 997 handles it so well, it doesnt seem to be as much of an event.

I have driven Imprezas that have felt so much quicker than my current car. Yet with under half the power. The fastest feeling car I ever owned was my old mini. But obviously it wasn't!

My 2S is due in March. I am changing from a Skyline. Again a turbo. And with 150bhp more than my 911 will have.

But I see it this way, with a turbo so much of your power is only available for such a short amount of the time. At full boost it is great, but in %age terms I reckon I will use more of my meagre new 355hp more of the time.

Also, I prefer the linear power delivery and the throttle reponse. Turbos never have the throttle reponse of a NA engine.

...Add

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Jan 1, 2006 2:08:05 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14192, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: madadd

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

I also had an chipped Audi engine ( TT 260 HP ) and the kick when the turbo charges is addictive!!!!!! You realy feel a strong pull.

The chipped Audi 1.8 T engine is not comparable to the standard ( 225 HP) engine, which does not have that kick, is more progressive.
My 997 feels different . I am sure it pulls more, but the feeling is smoother as it is very progressive.

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Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

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Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

Re: Cruising, gas mileage, RPM, lugging, torque, 300+hp

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