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    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    997 Turbo has been slower than Gallardo, almost in every track test in europe. GT2 will be much faster than both TT and G in every test, I guess.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    997 Turbo is a extremely fast car but it needs an expert to extract 10/10 out of it, HvS has already proved that he is incapable of extracting 10/10, what makes people think he will be able to extract 10/10 out of the GT2? If HvS is unable to extract 10/10 out of every car he has driven, then his list is meaingless as the comparisons will all be compromised, one car will be compared at 10/10 and another will be at 9/10 or 8/10.



    Totally agree. All the discussions about Tracktimes are useless since most of us will not even come close to the car's capabilities over such a distance and those who drive those times. I for my part would probably not even be below 9.30 min in a GT2 - and still believe I was driving like a pro... I wonder what the best true achieved time is of a fellow rennteamer in a TT or C's

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:


    Last thing-997 GT2 is faster in 0-300km/h then 599 GTB...



    This is utter nonsense! Just Porsche marketing in overdrive!

    The 599 0-300kph time is 30 sec. The 911 turbo time is over 40 sec. with 480 hp and now Porsche wants everybody to believe with only 50hp more - the GT2 can knock more than sec. off the turbo's time.

    Time for a reality check Porsche.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    The RUF 550 TT 0-300kph time is 30-32 seconds. The Gt2 time should be less since there is 1)less drivetrain losses 2)less weight

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:If HvS is unable to extract 10/10 out of every car he has driven, then his list is meaingless as the comparisons will all be compromised, one car will be compared at 10/10 and another will be at 9/10 or 8/10.



    The question is: is it likely that a skilled driver like him will only get 80% out of one car but 100% out of another. And also: how likely is it that he (who has driven each and every Porsche 1000 times on the NBR over the last 20 years or so) gets 80% out of a Porsche but 100% our of a Z06, Ferrari, Lamborghini...

    Guys: your thinking (turbosteff included in particular ) is wishful thinking and is unlikely to have much in common with reality

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    The RUF 550 TT 0-300kph time is 30-32 seconds. The Gt2 time should be less since there is 1)less drivetrain losses 2)less weight



    The RUF 550 has 570-580hp. Removing AWD will reduce 0-300 by about 2s. The GT2 has a longer gearing which will increase 0-300 by about 2s. Aerodynamics of the GT2 are slightly worse than those of the 997TT. (All numbers based on insider knowledge )

    The net result will be that the GT2 does 0-300 in about 35s.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Markus,
    GT2 0-300km/h is 33.0s and longer gearing is not that much longer since at 329km/h(or even little bit more) car is almost at the limiter...

    Oh, you forgot again that 997 Turbo is AWD and use two differantials(front + rear). Rear tire size is different etc. These cars are pretty different but, most people here is comparing them...

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:


    Last thing-997 GT2 is faster in 0-300km/h then 599 GTB...



    This is utter nonsense! Just Porsche marketing in overdrive!

    The 599 0-300kph time is 30 sec. The 911 turbo time is over 40 sec. with 480 hp and now Porsche wants everybody to believe with only 50hp more - the GT2 can knock more than sec. off the turbo's time.

    Time for a reality check Porsche.



    I seriously doubt the validity of the 599GTB 0-300 km/h time. That car was quicker to 200 km/h than the Enzo. I'd say the time will be around 32-33 seconds for a production example.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Markus,
    GT2 0-300km/h is 33.0s and longer gearing is not that much longer since at 329km/h(or even little bit more) car is almost at the limiter...

    Oh, you forgot again that 997 Turbo is AWD and use two differantials(front + rear). Rear tire size is different etc. These cars are pretty different but, most people here is comparing them...



    33s sounds fast but reasonable

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:


    Last thing-997 GT2 is faster in 0-300km/h then 599 GTB...



    This is utter nonsense! Just Porsche marketing in overdrive!

    The 599 0-300kph time is 30 sec. The 911 turbo time is over 40 sec. with 480 hp and now Porsche wants everybody to believe with only 50hp more - the GT2 can knock more than sec. off the turbo's time.

    Time for a reality check Porsche.



    I seriously doubt the validity of the 599GTB 0-300 km/h time. That car was quicker to 200 km/h than the Enzo. I'd say the time will be around 32-33 seconds for a production example.



    I agree that the 30s for the 599GTB sound a bit too nice...

    Let me put it this way: the 599GTB can do 30s under ideal circumstances ( ), the GT2 might do 33s under the same ideal circumstances ( ).

    In reality, the 599GTB (as well as the LP640) might do 33s and the GT2 might do 36s. I would expect a difference of about 3s between the 600hp+ cars and the GT2

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:If HvS is unable to extract 10/10 out of every car he has driven, then his list is meaingless as the comparisons will all be compromised, one car will be compared at 10/10 and another will be at 9/10 or 8/10.



    The question is: is it likely that a skilled driver like him will only get 80% out of one car but 100% out of another. And also: how likely is it that he (who has driven each and every Porsche 1000 times on the NBR over the last 20 years or so) gets 80% out of a Porsche but 100% our of a Z06, Ferrari, Lamborghini...

    Guys: your thinking (turbosteff included in particular ) is wishful thinking and is unlikely to have much in common with reality

    In the case of your godfather HvS you are not objective and bullheaded. With the proven lap time of the GT2 your arguments in your crusade against the Porsche company sounds more and more strange...(at this time I write this not Porsche addicted but with the pleasant anticipation of maybe ordering the 430 scuderia next week )

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:If HvS is unable to extract 10/10 out of every car he has driven, then his list is meaingless as the comparisons will all be compromised, one car will be compared at 10/10 and another will be at 9/10 or 8/10.



    The question is: is it likely that a skilled driver like him will only get 80% out of one car but 100% out of another. And also: how likely is it that he (who has driven each and every Porsche 1000 times on the NBR over the last 20 years or so) gets 80% out of a Porsche but 100% our of a Z06, Ferrari, Lamborghini...

    Guys: your thinking (turbosteff included in particular ) is wishful thinking and is unlikely to have much in common with reality

    In the case of your godfather HvS you are not objective and bullheaded. With the proven lap time of the GT2 your arguments in your crusade against the Porsche company sounds more and more strange...(at this time I write this not Porsche addicted but with the pleasant anticipation of maybe ordering the 430 scuderia next week )



    If my arguments sound strange to you better think about my reasoning again and again until any strangeness has disappeared

    BTW: Porsche LOVES customers like you who buy the 997TT (a car with the - by now - well known flaws) and remain loyal towards Porsche who has cheated them so badly You know, it is easy to fulfil customer demand if the customers lower their expectations enough...

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    The question is: is it likely that a skilled driver like him will only get 80% out of one car but 100% out of another. And also: how likely is it that he (who has driven each and every Porsche 1000 times on the NBR over the last 20 years or so) gets 80% out of a Porsche but 100% our of a Z06, Ferrari, Lamborghini...

    Guys: your thinking (turbosteff included in particular ) is wishful thinking and is unlikely to have much in common with reality



    EXACTLY MY POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If HvS can only get 80% out of the Porsche and 100% out of a Z06, that means he is incapable of making a fair comparison, his list is biased and compromised. He did not represent the true performance of the car and a lap time by someone else more capable should be used instead.

    Rear engines car known to NOT be easy to drive, unlike the more forgiving mid-engine and front engine cars. It really takes an expert with intimate knowledge in order to extract 10/10 out of it. It's what seperate the man from the boys with HvS in the boy catagory and WR in the former.

    Granted, compare to me HvS will be the man and I will be the boy but that's why I am writing to a forum and he is driving for a magazine and Walter driving for the factory.
    Porsche probably would have hired him as a test driver if he was any good in driving a Porsche.

    I still believe one cannot compare cars times with a single driver, there isn't one man the world who can master every single car and give a fair comparisons.

    As we are talking about absolute times here, we should only compare factory times where the factory testers from Porsche, Ferrari, Lamboghini, GM, etc know HOW to extract 10/10 out of there own cars. Those times will be the absolute best times and will be a good judge of a car's true performance.

    For those who argue that HvS's times are 'real world' times instead of max performance, then that list is only useful for HvS himself as I don't think anyone here drives like
    him. It's like comparing my golf game with my wife's. She hits her 3 wood farther than her driver. Does that mean anything to me? Does it means the driver is useless as the 3 wood is longer? It's only true for her. I have my own scale and my driver is longer than my 3 wood. The same scale cannot be applied to my father either as he hits his 5 wood the longest.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Markus,

    You are lately(well last 12 months at least) hard on Porsche...

    BUT, marketing BS example are all over car industry IMHO... Look at Audi R8 for example. Audi claimed Ring time of 7.55min and Horst "Nicht Immer so Schnell" von Saurma achived only 8.04min... R8 fans still do not belive in von Saurma time and praise EVO Bedford track time(pure BS CRAP BTW IMHO)... Recently von Slowly drove new M3 on the Ring and belive it or not time was something like 8.03min(CUP+ tires)! So, what is right now going on in R8 owners mind? Probably something like: "Audi is even worst then Porsche in marketing crap...".

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Hmm, I kinda start seeing a trend, make 'god' HvS's weakness is driving AWD cars, the extra traction just confuses his brain.

    I skipped the 996 Turbo because I don't think it has enough performance for the price, even when I absolutely LOVED that car's styling and especially the headlamp design. I hated the bug eyes on the 997 Turbo but I still bought one because of the improved performance.

    I do not and probably will not go even to 7/10 of the car and I probably used maybe 3/10 of it everyday. But within that 3/10 I felt there was a major improvement over the 996 Turbo and THAT was the reason I bought it.

    For the pundits like MKSGR, what's your beef? The car is super fast but only in the right hands, and don't quote HvS because he has already shown the world that he is incapable of extracting a good time out of the 997 Turbo when WR has no problem going fast in one.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    The question is: is it likely that a skilled driver like him will only get 80% out of one car but 100% out of another. And also: how likely is it that he (who has driven each and every Porsche 1000 times on the NBR over the last 20 years or so) gets 80% out of a Porsche but 100% our of a Z06, Ferrari, Lamborghini...

    Guys: your thinking (turbosteff included in particular ) is wishful thinking and is unlikely to have much in common with reality



    EXACTLY MY POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If HvS can only get 80% out of the Porsche and 100% out of a Z06, that means he is incapable of making a fair comparison, his list is biased and compromised. He did not represent the true performance of the car and a lap time by someone else more capable should be used instead.

    Rear engines car known to NOT be easy to drive, unlike the more forgiving mid-engine and front engine cars. It really takes an expert with intimate knowledge in order to extract 10/10 out of it. It's what seperate the man from the boys with HvS in the boy catagory and WR in the former.




    Hmmm. The problem is: 997TT has AWD, PSM etc. etc. Should be much easier to drive compared to RWD Z06 etc. as you state correctly.

    Now, you guys argue that HvS had problems with the AWD 997TT but not with all these RWD sportscars like CGT, 599GTB, old GT2, old GT3...

    Sorry, this is not logical at all

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Markus,

    You are lately(well last 12 months at least) hard on Porsche...

    BUT, marketing BS example are all over car industry IMHO... Look at Audi R8 for example. Audi claimed Ring time of 7.55min and Horst "Nicht Immer so Schnell" von Saurma achived only 8.04min... R8 fans still do not belive in von Saurma time and praise EVO Bedford track time(pure BS CRAP BTW IMHO)... Recently von Slowly drove new M3 on the Ring and belive it or not time was something like 8.03min(CUP+ tires)! So, what is right now going on in R8 owners mind? Probably something like: "Audi is even worst then Porsche in marketing crap...".



    Kreso, we both agree 100% that factory claims may be influenced by marketing considerations (irrespective of whether they are from GM, Porsche, Audi, BMW etc.).

    My conclusion: the Supertest is the best OEM independant benchmark. It also has its flaws. However, there is no better benchmark. This will also apply to the GT2

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Hmm, I kinda start seeing a trend, make 'god' HvS's weakness is driving AWD cars, the extra traction just confuses his brain.

    I skipped the 996 Turbo because I don't think it has enough performance for the price, even when I absolutely LOVED that car's styling and especially the headlamp design. I hated the bug eyes on the 997 Turbo but I still bought one because of the improved performance.

    I do not and probably will not go even to 7/10 of the car and I probably used maybe 3/10 of it everyday. But within that 3/10 I felt there was a major improvement over the 996 Turbo and THAT was the reason I bought it.

    For the pundits like MKSGR, what's your beef? The car is super fast but only in the right hands, and don't quote HvS because he has already shown the world that he is incapable of extracting a good time out of the 997 Turbo when WR has no problem going fast in one.



    Your logic has a serious flaw. Why was HvS so quick in the 996TT? Why was he so quick in the Gallardo? Why was he so quick in the LP640?

    You don' honestly believe that he is quick in all the above AWD cars but suddenly screws it in the 997TT.

    Again, you and turbosteff try to justify the 997TT because you bought one. I understand that it is hard to accept the obvious in that situation. BTW: there are a few 997TT owners on Renntean which fully accept the critical arguments regarding the 997TT AWD concept. And some of them use way more than 3/10 of the car's potential

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Hmm, I kinda start seeing a trend, make 'god' HvS's weakness is driving AWD cars, the extra traction just confuses his brain.

    I skipped the 996 Turbo because I don't think it has enough performance for the price, even when I absolutely LOVED that car's styling and especially the headlamp design. I hated the bug eyes on the 997 Turbo but I still bought one because of the improved performance.

    I do not and probably will not go even to 7/10 of the car and I probably used maybe 3/10 of it everyday. But within that 3/10 I felt there was a major improvement over the 996 Turbo and THAT was the reason I bought it.

    For the pundits like MKSGR, what's your beef? The car is super fast but only in the right hands, and don't quote HvS because he has already shown the world that he is incapable of extracting a good time out of the 997 Turbo when WR has no problem going fast in one.



    Your logic has a serious flaw. Why was HvS so quick in the 996TT? Why was he so quick in the Gallardo? Why was he so quick in the LP640?

    You don' honestly believe that he is quick in all the above AWD cars but suddenly screws it in the 997TT.

    Again, you and turbosteff try to justify the 997TT because you bought one. I understand that it is hard to accept the obvious in that situation. BTW: there are a few 997TT owners on Renntean which fully accept the critical arguments regarding the 997TT AWD concept. And some of them use way more than 3/10 of the car's potential



    Markus, you forgot to mention that it's the 997TT that is hardly an improvement over the 996TT. I would wager that a 996TT X50 with the LSD and X73 would tear the 997TT a new rectum around the NS .

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Hmm, I kinda start seeing a trend, make 'god' HvS's weakness is driving AWD cars, the extra traction just confuses his brain.

    I skipped the 996 Turbo because I don't think it has enough performance for the price, even when I absolutely LOVED that car's styling and especially the headlamp design. I hated the bug eyes on the 997 Turbo but I still bought one because of the improved performance.

    I do not and probably will not go even to 7/10 of the car and I probably used maybe 3/10 of it everyday. But within that 3/10 I felt there was a major improvement over the 996 Turbo and THAT was the reason I bought it.

    For the pundits like MKSGR, what's your beef? The car is super fast but only in the right hands, and don't quote HvS because he has already shown the world that he is incapable of extracting a good time out of the 997 Turbo when WR has no problem going fast in one.



    Your logic has a serious flaw. Why was HvS so quick in the 996TT? Why was he so quick in the Gallardo? Why was he so quick in the LP640?

    You don' honestly believe that he is quick in all the above AWD cars but suddenly screws it in the 997TT.

    Again, you and turbosteff try to justify the 997TT because you bought one. I understand that it is hard to accept the obvious in that situation. BTW: there are a few 997TT owners on Renntean which fully accept the critical arguments regarding the 997TT AWD concept. And some of them use way more than 3/10 of the car's potential



    Markus, you forgot to mention that it's the 997TT that is hardly an improvement over the 996TT. I would wager that a 996TT X50 with the LSD and X73 would tear the 997TT a new rectum around the NS .



    Absolutely correct.

    The 997TT has (compared to the 996TT tested with a NBR time of 7:56 in 2000):

    - 60hp more
    - Cup tires that are (based on Porsche statements) up to 7s faster per NBR lap
    - LSD
    - same or slightly less weight
    - new AWD.

    The result of all this: 2s faster than the old 996TT... But hey, I forgot, it is just that HvS had a bad day when he tested the 997TT. The car is so much faster than its predecessor from the 90s

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    BTW (@turbosteff and @whoopsy): here you can read that the new Nissan is much quicker than the 997TT and is close to the CGT

    www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=384780&an=0&page=0#384780

    Hope that validates my point: there are many factory claims and rumours circulating. In the end I give a sh*t about them. The only reasonable benchmark is an independant benchmark - not OEM figures. Sportauto is the best we have as per today. Maybe some other magazine will also publish some sort of Supertest at some point in the future

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    [...] It's like comparing my golf game with my wife's. [...]



    So... why do we argue in the first place?

    Every human sitting behind the wheel of a car has some good and bad days, not to forget the track conditions at each particular day. See these numbers as an orientation, driving those cars I still cannot share all of v. Saurma's comments. Still he produces the most valid and stringent magazine test so far.

    If you are willing to produce your own test with an experienced driver, I'd be one of the first to buy a copy!

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    This argument is going nowhere until someone tells me if Auto Sport - with HVS - are lapping the Ring AND timing each car they post on their TOP RING TIMES always on a CLOSED course or always on a public day, AND always in the same conditions? If they aren't then the times that are posted by Auto Sport mean nothing.

    There is absolutely no statistical significance to any of the times, in the least, if they are not identifying the track conditions of each lap time they post AND whether they were performed on a closed track, or a public day track.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Hmm, I kinda start seeing a trend, make 'god' HvS's weakness is driving AWD cars, the extra traction just confuses his brain.

    I skipped the 996 Turbo because I don't think it has enough performance for the price, even when I absolutely LOVED that car's styling and especially the headlamp design. I hated the bug eyes on the 997 Turbo but I still bought one because of the improved performance.

    I do not and probably will not go even to 7/10 of the car and I probably used maybe 3/10 of it everyday. But within that 3/10 I felt there was a major improvement over the 996 Turbo and THAT was the reason I bought it.

    For the pundits like MKSGR, what's your beef? The car is super fast but only in the right hands, and don't quote HvS because he has already shown the world that he is incapable of extracting a good time out of the 997 Turbo when WR has no problem going fast in one.



    Your logic has a serious flaw. Why was HvS so quick in the 996TT? Why was he so quick in the Gallardo? Why was he so quick in the LP640?

    You don' honestly believe that he is quick in all the above AWD cars but suddenly screws it in the 997TT.

    Again, you and turbosteff try to justify the 997TT because you bought one. I understand that it is hard to accept the obvious in that situation. BTW: there are a few 997TT owners on Renntean which fully accept the critical arguments regarding the 997TT AWD concept. And some of them use way more than 3/10 of the car's potential



    Markus, you forgot to mention that it's the 997TT that is hardly an improvement over the 996TT. I would wager that a 996TT X50 with the LSD and X73 would tear the 997TT a new rectum around the NS .



    Absolutely correct.

    The 997TT has (compared to the 996TT tested with a NBR time of 7:56 in 2000):

    - 60hp more
    - Cup tires that are (based on Porsche statements) up to 7s faster per NBR lap
    - LSD
    - same or slightly less weight
    - new AWD.

    The result of all this: 2s faster than the old 996TT... But hey, I forgot, it is just that HvS had a bad day when he tested the 997TT. The car is so much faster than its predecessor from the 90s



    Your argumentation (Crash and MKSGR) make once more perfect sense but I think Kreso got the info from a Porsche engineer that the 996tt's 7.56 time never really happened and is just a "dreamed" lap time.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    Ziggy said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Hmm, I kinda start seeing a trend, make 'god' HvS's weakness is driving AWD cars, the extra traction just confuses his brain.

    I skipped the 996 Turbo because I don't think it has enough performance for the price, even when I absolutely LOVED that car's styling and especially the headlamp design. I hated the bug eyes on the 997 Turbo but I still bought one because of the improved performance.

    I do not and probably will not go even to 7/10 of the car and I probably used maybe 3/10 of it everyday. But within that 3/10 I felt there was a major improvement over the 996 Turbo and THAT was the reason I bought it.

    For the pundits like MKSGR, what's your beef? The car is super fast but only in the right hands, and don't quote HvS because he has already shown the world that he is incapable of extracting a good time out of the 997 Turbo when WR has no problem going fast in one.



    Your logic has a serious flaw. Why was HvS so quick in the 996TT? Why was he so quick in the Gallardo? Why was he so quick in the LP640?

    You don' honestly believe that he is quick in all the above AWD cars but suddenly screws it in the 997TT.

    Again, you and turbosteff try to justify the 997TT because you bought one. I understand that it is hard to accept the obvious in that situation. BTW: there are a few 997TT owners on Renntean which fully accept the critical arguments regarding the 997TT AWD concept. And some of them use way more than 3/10 of the car's potential



    Markus, you forgot to mention that it's the 997TT that is hardly an improvement over the 996TT. I would wager that a 996TT X50 with the LSD and X73 would tear the 997TT a new rectum around the NS .



    Absolutely correct.

    The 997TT has (compared to the 996TT tested with a NBR time of 7:56 in 2000):

    - 60hp more
    - Cup tires that are (based on Porsche statements) up to 7s faster per NBR lap
    - LSD
    - same or slightly less weight
    - new AWD.

    The result of all this: 2s faster than the old 996TT... But hey, I forgot, it is just that HvS had a bad day when he tested the 997TT. The car is so much faster than its predecessor from the 90s



    Your argumentation (Crash and MKSGR) make once more perfect sense but I think Kreso got the info from a Porsche engineer that the 996tt's 7.56 time never really happened and is just a "dreamed" lap time.



    Ziggy, from what I recall that is the Sport Auto lap time.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Yes, it is a Sport Auto time achived by von Saurma. BUT, look very closely to sector times on that "wonder lap"...

    And yes one P. guy told me that 7.56min is the same time as W.Rohrl achived. So, von Saurma as fast as Rohrl in 996 Turbo but, much slower in 997 Turbo? Drove your own conclusion...

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    Hmmm. The problem is: 997TT has AWD, PSM etc. etc. Should be much easier to drive compared to RWD Z06 etc. as you state correctly.

    Now, you guys argue that HvS had problems with the AWD 997TT but not with all these RWD sportscars like CGT, 599GTB, old GT2, old GT3...

    Sorry, this is not logical at all



    The Lambos may have AWD but their AWD system are tuned with more rear bias, for all intends and purposes they are rear wheel drive cars. Hence his fast times with the Lambos and just about every other rwd cars.

    997 Turbo on the other hand had a different AWD tuning, one with more front drive. With all the extra electronic helper it is tuned to be safe and easier on the street, but what is good for the street maybe not work the same on a track, plus it was never tuned for the track. However, it is still a super fast car and in the right hands, it has no problem going fast and WR has already proved that.

    Btw, I think I remember reading somewhere that 996TT time was an aborted run with a couple miles to go, but somehow it still got posted.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Every human sitting behind the wheel of a car has some good and bad days, not to forget the track conditions at each particular day. See these numbers as an orientation,



    BTW obviously HvS had some similar thoughts himself after he published the 997TT Supertest. In the recent Sportauto copy he actually referred to this test in the (Techart) GT Street Supertest. He stated that he did another hot lap with another 997TT just to confirm his impressions - result: 2 sec. faster compared to the Supertest (2 sec. certainly is within the normal range of volatile lap-times).
    He once more stated, that the 997TT showed some tumbling motion ("Taumelbewegung") at the limit - this tricky behaviour was absent (according to HvS) in the GT Street.

    If I recall correctly RC also has reported some tricky behaviour of the car at the limit (abrupt change from understeer to oversteer or vice versa).

    Forget about WR laptimes - the guy has been elected as "Driver of the Century" for some good reasons
    I guess he is able to squeeze amazing laptimes even out of cars, which we mortal drivers would describe as "undriveable"

    Check the vid showing him driving on NoS in the rain with a 997 GT3 on almost gone tyres and you know what I mean

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=E93ag4Rp-Gg&eurl=

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    This argument is going nowhere until someone tells me if Auto Sport - with HVS - are lapping the Ring AND timing each car they post on their TOP RING TIMES always on a CLOSED course or always on a public day, AND always in the same conditions? If they aren't then the times that are posted by Auto Sport mean nothing.

    There is absolutely no statistical significance to any of the times, in the least, if they are not identifying the track conditions of each lap time they post AND whether they were performed on a closed track, or a public day track.



    You will never get a confirmation here, I tried and the best I can get from all these HvS fans here is: 'trust me, we know he is doing these laps right'.

    There is no confirmation ANYWHERE, not even on Sport Auto's own website on how they do their laps, so for all we know all the laps could be of different length and they use different length to get different 'times' to their likings.

    A lot of guys here will quote wiki but that wiki entry is not made by HvS or Sport Auto, so there is still no official word from HvS and Sport Auto on how they do the lap.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Every human sitting behind the wheel of a car has some good and bad days, not to forget the track conditions at each particular day. See these numbers as an orientation,



    BTW obviously HvS had some similar thoughts himself after he published the 997TT Supertest. In the recent Sportauto copy he actually referred to this test in the (Techart) GT Street Supertest. He stated that he did another hot lap with another 997TT just to confirm his impressions - result: 2 sec. faster compared to the Supertest (2 sec. certainly is within the normal range of volatile lap-times).
    He once more stated, that the 997TT showed some tumbling motion ("Taumelbewegung") at the limit - this tricky behaviour was absent (according to HvS) in the GT Street.

    If I recall correctly RC also has reported some tricky behaviour of the car at the limit (abrupt change from understeer to oversteer or vice versa).

    Forget about WR laptimes - the guy has been elected as "Driver of the Century" for some good reasons
    I guess he is able to squeeze amazing laptimes even out of cars, which we mortal drivers would describe as "undriveable"

    Check the vid showing him driving on NoS in the rain with a 997 GT3 on almost gone tyres and you know what I mean

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=E93ag4Rp-Gg&eurl=



    I wanted to post that Horst comment from current Sport Auto as well.

    So, 7.52min it sound little bit better... Just add new Bucket seats(minus 18kg's) and Horst could even do 7.50min or something...

     
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