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    Mar 18, 2006 6:43:53 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    AutoBild sportscar (a German car magazin) states that the 997TT is up to 20 seconds faster on the NBR than the 996TT, depending on the tires used.

    I assume the benchmark for that statement is the 8:00 claimed for the 996TT officially. That would imply a figure close to 7:40 for a 997TT with sports tires. Or aound 7:45 with standard tires...

    Would be good news finally

    Mar 18, 2006 7:15:44 PM

    stradman
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    AutoBild sportscar (a German car magazin) states that the 997TT is up to 20 seconds faster on the NBR than the 996TT, depending on the tires used.

    I assume the benchmark for that statement is the 8:00 claimed for the 996TT officially. That would imply a figure close to 7:40 for a 997TT with sports tires. Or aound 7:45 with standard tires...

    Would be good news finally



    Agreed, if the 997tt would run at or close to those numbers it would show how serious Porsche would be about making the turbo the "KING" once again.

    Mar 18, 2006 7:46:15 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: stradman

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    stradman said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    AutoBild sportscar (a German car magazin) states that the 997TT is up to 20 seconds faster on the NBR than the 996TT, depending on the tires used.

    I assume the benchmark for that statement is the 8:00 claimed for the 996TT officially. That would imply a figure close to 7:40 for a 997TT with sports tires. Or aound 7:45 with standard tires...

    Would be good news finally



    Agreed, if the 997tt would run at or close to those numbers it would show how serious Porsche would be about making the turbo the "KING" once again.



    If they also introduced PDK in the short-term (the article said PDK will be launched 2007) and the powerkit (520hp) I would be 100% happy again

    Mar 18, 2006 8:38:04 PM

    SoCalHoosier
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    stradman said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    AutoBild sportscar (a German car magazin) states that the 997TT is up to 20 seconds faster on the NBR than the 996TT, depending on the tires used.

    I assume the benchmark for that statement is the 8:00 claimed for the 996TT officially. That would imply a figure close to 7:40 for a 997TT with sports tires. Or aound 7:45 with standard tires...

    Would be good news finally



    Agreed, if the 997tt would run at or close to those numbers it would show how serious Porsche would be about making the turbo the "KING" once again.



    If they also introduced PDK in the short-term (the article said PDK will be launched 2007) and the powerkit (520hp) I would be 100% happy again



    That's pretty much what I'll be waiting for... PDK will give the car an absolutely different feel. I still am in awe that anyone can actually get into a TT with Tip.

    The ring times are moot.
    At this point anything Porsche states is = to anything GM states. I just don't trust any of the manufacturer's claims.

    Mar 18, 2006 9:36:15 PM

    WBH
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    What time do you think a 996TTS w/X73 would have achieved (vs 7:56 of '00 996TT)? 7:50? Would think so, given about 30 more hp than 996TT; perhaps more robust late model cycle produc engines; X73 impact; latest street tire tech; and PCCB 2.0.....

    Given 997TT has an addtl 35hp; no turbo lag; up to 60 extra lb-ft during overboost; latest PASM; PTM; eAWD; blk box-interlinked TipS; Mich PS2; and PCCB 3.0...I'd be disappointed if 997TT can't do better than 7:44, after 5+ yrs of hardware/software advances.....

    And no matter what 997TT's N-ring time is, only other car that would interest me as a complement, rather than a replacement, for 997TT is 599....

    Mar 18, 2006 9:44:39 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: WBH

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    What time do you think a 996TTS w/X73 would have achieved (vs 7:56 of '00 996TT)? 7:50? Would think so, given about 30 more hp than 996TT; perhaps more robust late model cycle produc engines; X73 impact; latest street tire tech; and PCCB 2.0.....

    Given 997TT has an addtl 35hp; no turbo lag; up to 60 extra lb-ft during overboost; latest PASM; PTM; eAWD; blk box-interlinked TipS; Mich PS2; and PCCB 3.0...I'd be disappointed if 997TT can't do better than 7:44, after 5+ yrs of hardware/software advances.....

    And no matter what 997TT's N-ring time is, only other car that would interest me as a complement, rather than a replacement, for 997TT is 599....



    I agree 100% with all three statements

    Let's hope that the first two expectations will be confirmed asap... Otherwise 599GTB might also serve as a good replacement

    Mar 18, 2006 10:51:43 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: WBH

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    VKSF said:Given 997TT has an addtl 35hp; no turbo lag; up to 60 extra lb-ft during overboost; latest PASM; PTM; eAWD; blk box-interlinked TipS; Mich PS2; and PCCB 3.0...I'd be disappointed if 997TT can't do better than 7:44, after 5+ yrs of hardware/software advances.....


    No way is the Tip going to break 7:45 on street tires, imho...

    Mar 18, 2006 11:46:12 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:Given 997TT has an addtl 35hp; no turbo lag; up to 60 extra lb-ft during overboost; latest PASM; PTM; eAWD; blk box-interlinked TipS; Mich PS2; and PCCB 3.0...I'd be disappointed if 997TT can't do better than 7:44, after 5+ yrs of hardware/software advances.....


    No way is the Tip going to break 7:45 on street tires, imho...



    I agree, lets not forget the Tip has only 5 gears and shifts via torque converter, and the N'ring is an unusually fast track were most of the driving is done at high speeds, and acceleration on the higher gears is very important. Then there is the extra weight of the Tip, the lack of rear LSD, and torque-converter downshifts.

    Mar 19, 2006 1:44:27 AM

    WBH
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:Given 997TT has an addtl 35hp; no turbo lag; up to 60 extra lb-ft during overboost; latest PASM; PTM; eAWD; blk box-interlinked TipS; Mich PS2; and PCCB 3.0...I'd be disappointed if 997TT can't do better than 7:44, after 5+ yrs of hardware/software advances.....


    No way is the Tip going to break 7:45 on street tires, imho...



    I agree, lets not forget the Tip has only 5 gears and shifts via torque converter, and the N'ring is an unusually fast track were most of the driving is done at high speeds, and acceleration on the higher gears is very important. Then there is the extra weight of the Tip, the lack of rear LSD, and torque-converter downshifts.



    Intriguing points you guys raise...

    Do you agree that 996TTS w/X73 and street tires would do Ring in 7:50?
    Would you predict 997TT w/manual; LSD; street tires; and PCCB will do Ring in 7:44 or less?
    Would you predict PCCB shaves 1-2 secs off N-ring times w/its supposed ?35lbs wt savings and perhaps better ability to titrate late-braking/incrd fade resistance vs steel brakes?

    Given no N-ring time for 996TTS w/X73 was ever documented (to my knowledge), I suspect we also shouldn't expect a clean comparo of N-ring times of appropriately-equipped (SC, PCCB, LSD, street tires) Tip vs manual in both Sport and non-Sport PASM mode.....

    Mar 19, 2006 4:13:10 AM

    Grant
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    Reply to: WBH

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    My guess is that 996TTS with X73 and LSD might do 7:50-7:52 and the 997TT with manual and LSD might do 7:46-7:49 and the 997TT with Tip would do 7:48-7:51 - all with street tires.

    Just speculation on my part...

    I think any of the cars with PCCB (I guess only 996TTS comes std) might shave a second or two at most.

    Mar 19, 2006 5:36:15 AM

    RCA
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    This whole discussion reminds me of the Z06 discussion we had a while ago. Interesting guessing, nice gossip, highly entertaining calculations and theories but...nothing more.

    Just sit back, relax and wait. And then you owe me a beer or two.

    Mar 19, 2006 8:04:03 AM

    intouch1
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    exactly...we will have to wait and see....

    Mar 19, 2006 9:28:21 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:Given 997TT has an addtl 35hp; no turbo lag; up to 60 extra lb-ft during overboost; latest PASM; PTM; eAWD; blk box-interlinked TipS; Mich PS2; and PCCB 3.0...I'd be disappointed if 997TT can't do better than 7:44, after 5+ yrs of hardware/software advances.....


    No way is the Tip going to break 7:45 on street tires, imho...



    You are probably right as the manual version is said to be faster than Tip on the NBR. I.e. Tip is probably more like 7:49 as stated in other posts above

    Mar 19, 2006 9:30:10 AM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:Given 997TT has an addtl 35hp; no turbo lag; up to 60 extra lb-ft during overboost; latest PASM; PTM; eAWD; blk box-interlinked TipS; Mich PS2; and PCCB 3.0...I'd be disappointed if 997TT can't do better than 7:44, after 5+ yrs of hardware/software advances.....


    No way is the Tip going to break 7:45 on street tires, imho...



    I agree, lets not forget the Tip has only 5 gears and shifts via torque converter, and the N'ring is an unusually fast track were most of the driving is done at high speeds, and acceleration on the higher gears is very important. Then there is the extra weight of the Tip, the lack of rear LSD, and torque-converter downshifts.



    My expectation is still: Most buyers who decided to go for the Tip version will experience a very big disappointment. Tip is Tip. It is a bad compromise in a sprots car

    Mar 19, 2006 9:31:54 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    My guess is that 996TTS with X73 and LSD might do 7:50-7:52 and the 997TT with manual and LSD might do 7:46-7:49 and the 997TT with Tip would do 7:48-7:51 - all with street tires.

    Just speculation on my part...

    I think any of the cars with PCCB (I guess only 996TTS comes std) might shave a second or two at most.



    Sounds very reasonable. 7:49 is probably the Tip time.

    Mar 19, 2006 9:34:34 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    This whole discussion reminds me of the Z06 discussion we had a while ago. Interesting guessing, nice gossip, highly entertaining calculations and theories but...nothing more.

    Just sit back, relax and wait. And then you owe me a beer or two.



    I will buy you more than two beers if the 997TT should deliver good performance on the NBR

    I would be as reliefed as you

    Mar 19, 2006 10:14:05 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    This whole discussion reminds me of the Z06 discussion we had a while ago. Interesting guessing, nice gossip, highly entertaining calculations and theories but...nothing more.

    Just sit back, relax and wait. And then you owe me a beer or two.



    I will buy you more than two beers if the 997TT should deliver good performance on the NBR

    I would be as reliefed as you



    *Writing a screenplay for 'MKSGR and his magical Porsche', a heart-breaking tale of a man, who really wanted the car... but thought it was a piece of crap *

    But seriously, I think you won't be disappointed, like RC said.

    RC,
    any ideas yet about what the powerkit top speed will be, in comparison to the standard car? I remember you mentioning last year about the standrd Turbo achieving 320 km/h and the Turbo S (powerkit) 325 km/h?

    Mar 19, 2006 11:06:31 AM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: WBH

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    LSD is NOT available for TIP!! Only for manual 997 Turbo!

    Mar 19, 2006 11:21:04 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    This whole discussion reminds me of the Z06 discussion we had a while ago. Interesting guessing, nice gossip, highly entertaining calculations and theories but...nothing more.

    Just sit back, relax and wait. And then you owe me a beer or two.



    I will buy you more than two beers if the 997TT should deliver good performance on the NBR

    I would be as reliefed as you



    *Writing a screenplay for 'MKSGR and his magical Porsche', a heart-breaking tale of a man, who really wanted the car... but thought it was a piece of crap *




    Seems like you are a famous movie maker

    Mar 19, 2006 11:37:17 AM

    BI~TURBO
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    What is PDK

    Mar 19, 2006 11:53:22 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: BI~TURBO

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    BI~TURBO said:
    What is PDK



    PDK stands for "Porsche Doppelkupplung", essentially it is Porsche's version of the DSG (double-clutch) technology.

    Mar 19, 2006 11:57:34 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    This whole discussion reminds me of the Z06 discussion we had a while ago. Interesting guessing, nice gossip, highly entertaining calculations and theories but...nothing more.

    Just sit back, relax and wait. And then you owe me a beer or two.



    I will buy you more than two beers if the 997TT should deliver good performance on the NBR

    I would be as reliefed as you



    *Writing a screenplay for 'MKSGR and his magical Porsche', a heart-breaking tale of a man, who really wanted the car... but thought it was a piece of crap *




    Seems like you are a famous movie maker



    I actually AM working on a screenplay, as a hobby, but business is taking a lot of time lately (good thing I can access Rennteam ).

    Mar 19, 2006 11:58:49 AM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    My guess is that 996TTS with X73 and LSD might do 7:50-7:52 and the 997TT with manual and LSD might do 7:46-7:49 and the 997TT with Tip would do 7:48-7:51 - all with street tires.

    Just speculation on my part...

    I think any of the cars with PCCB (I guess only 996TTS comes std) might shave a second or two at most.



    Those numbers would be my guess as well

    Mar 19, 2006 11:59:07 AM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    My expectation is still: Most buyers who decided to go for the Tip version will experience a very big disappointment. Tip is Tip. It is a bad compromise in a sprots car



    Agree 100%.

    Mar 19, 2006 5:44:36 PM

    MKW
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    We also won't ever be given any official info on which of the approved ( such as Conti,Mich,Pirelli,Bridgestone,others ) OEM tires ( of which we have no choice ) would be the fastest around the Ring. That can mean 5- 10 secs either way from the slowest to the fastest tire ! We never had any official Ring times with X73 suspension or X50 power kit on the 996 Turbo , nevermind it's random OEM supplied tire differences that would have affected THOSE times, also. So , as challenging as it is too bench race the Turbo on the Ring or anywhere else vs other brands , it's even harder to bench race the car itself vs all it's own iterations . And Porsche wants it that way !

    Mar 19, 2006 9:46:56 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    AutoBild sportscar (a German car magazin) states that the 997TT is up to 20 seconds faster on the NBR than the 996TT, depending on the tires used.

    I assume the benchmark for that statement is the 8:00 claimed for the 996TT officially. That would imply a figure close to 7:40 for a 997TT with sports tires. Or aound 7:45 with standard tires...

    Would be good news finally



    I need to get this straight. The 430 weighing 3300lbs with performance tires, F1, E-diff, 483hp, in race mode, carbon brakes and driven by Von sarma does the Ring in 7:56 sec and the 997TT with 480hp, weighing about 3500lbs, with tip and street tires with Von Saurma driving will do the Ring in 7:45sec?

    Now what is wrong with this picture

    Mar 19, 2006 9:49:51 PM

    devo
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Good point. I would think that the 430 would do it faster.

    Mar 19, 2006 10:12:54 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I need to get this straight. The 430 weighing 3300lbs with performance tires, F1, E-diff, 483hp, in race mode, carbon brakes and driven by Von sarma does the Ring in 7:56 sec and the 997TT with 480hp, weighing about 3500lbs, with tip and street tires with Von Saurma driving will do the Ring in 7:45sec?

    Now what is wrong with this picture



    Just guessing, but could it be the fact that von Saurma has not yet published any Supertest results for any version of the 997 TT, that is, neither manual or Tiptronic?

    So where do you get your "facts" from, Nick?

    Mar 19, 2006 11:02:52 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I need to get this straight. The 430 weighing 3300lbs with performance tires, F1, E-diff, 483hp, in race mode, carbon brakes and driven by Von sarma does the Ring in 7:56 sec and the 997TT with 480hp, weighing about 3500lbs, with tip and street tires with Von Saurma driving will do the Ring in 7:45sec?

    Now what is wrong with this picture



    Just guessing, but could it be the fact that von Saurma has not yet published any Supertest results for any version of the 997 TT, that is, neither manual or Tiptronic?

    So where do you get your "facts" from, Nick?



    We know from Porsche officials that the 997TT did the Ring in 7:49 and the talk was the weather was bad. If Porsche is claiming the time then it is fair to assume the TT was stock.

    Now you explain too me how there can be such a wide difference in performance given the how each is configured.

    Mar 20, 2006 1:49:52 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Some hope remains (997TT NBR time)

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    AutoBild sportscar (a German car magazin) states that the 997TT is up to 20 seconds faster on the NBR than the 996TT, depending on the tires used.

    I assume the benchmark for that statement is the 8:00 claimed for the 996TT officially. That would imply a figure close to 7:40 for a 997TT with sports tires. Or aound 7:45 with standard tires...

    Would be good news finally



    I need to get this straight. The 430 weighing 3300lbs with performance tires, F1, E-diff, 483hp, in race mode, carbon brakes and driven by Von sarma does the Ring in 7:56 sec and the 997TT with 480hp, weighing about 3500lbs, with tip and street tires with Von Saurma driving will do the Ring in 7:45sec?

    Now what is wrong with this picture



    Now, now, Nick! Don't be modest. It did it in 7:55. With semi-slicks .
    But seriously, this shows which car is superior on the road, when the surface isn't glass smooth.
     
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