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    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Lars997:

    Actually the Tesla design was never that good. The Roadster, the S, the X... all lack a fascinating Design.

    Out of the history we know that Fisker only gave them a second class design to keep the stunner concept for himself. It is weird that they still stick with the simple plastic design on their cars - so much more would be possible. A mix of Fisker design and Tesla drive train could have been even more successful. 

    Like I said many times before, the Tesla S is actually a nice looking car. Yes, it is no stunner, not by a far shot but I think that the almost timeless design works to the advantage of Tesla.

    The Tesla X is not really plain ugly but the rear looks weird and very Prius like. Not my cup of tea. Also, this car doesn't look, at all, like a SUV but maybe this is an advantage in certain markets. For me, a SUV needs to look different, I actually like the front of the new Cadillac Escalade a lot, maybe a bit too aggressive for certain markets, especially in Europe.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:
    fritz:
    SciFrog:

    You think their prototype is not capable of that? That would be unPorsche like to announce something like that for 2017 if it wasn't possible.

    I doubt that the show-car is even a prototype.  I suspect that that announcement was based on lab tests, not on-the-road experience.

    Smiley Smiley

    Ok RC what information on the Mission E can you share?


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    EnglishManInNY:
    RC:
    fritz:
    SciFrog:

    You think their prototype is not capable of that? That would be unPorsche like to announce something like that for 2017 if it wasn't possible.

    I doubt that the show-car is even a prototype.  I suspect that that announcement was based on lab tests, not on-the-road experience.

    Smiley Smiley

    Ok RC what information on the Mission E can you share?

    Nothing other than that this car is a project... Smiley Smiley Also, it won't be cheap if Porsche decides to put it on the road. If you thought that the Panamera Hybrid is expensive, wait until you see this puppy. Last but not least, the design will be very likely objectified when it hits the road.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Actually just watched the presentation video and had to say - there are so many cool features on that car that I already feel wanting one. Especially that panoramic sun-roof is spectacular. Last not least - the bio-hazard defense Air-Co is all I was always waiting for smiley


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    If I had to choose a car based on gadgetry and electronics, I would definitely pick a Tesla, no doubt about it. kiss


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:

    If I had to choose a car based on gadgetry and electronics, I would definitely pick a Tesla, no doubt about it. kiss

    Yep.... agree totally. Damn - why can't there be such thing in a good looking car?


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    it is a very sleek and and sporty looking vehicle  in person ....it will age well.....similar to a Tesla S and like the latter ,  does not photograph well  ...Franz is the best in the business and that's why Elon recruited him ...he's no dummy

    compare its smooth spare bauhaus styling to the unconnected creases, swirls , bulges and concavities of some current MBZs that look dated the moment they arrive 

    seems like half my neighbors have had deposits on them for awhile ...they currrently have X5s , Cayennes and GLs and like most around here  will never go off road or even to rhe snow ...just the soccer game, grocery, mall and gym 

    they are the same folks who traded in their S classes and 7 series for the Tesla S en mass the past few years 

    I am sure local German dealers are concerned ...mailny from image standpoint , as the X will be the family hauler to be seen in here ,  not the dinosaur legacy ones like X5, Cayenne and GL  !

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    MKW:

    it is a very sleek and and sporty looking vehicle  in person ....it will age well.....similar to a Tesla S and like the latter ,  does not photograph well  ...Franz is the best in the business and that's why Elon recruited him ...he's no dummy

    compare its smooth spare bauhaus styling to the unconnected creases, swirls , bulges and concavities of some current MBZs that look dated the moment they arrive 

    seems like half my neighbors have had deposits on them for awhile ...they currrently have X5s , Cayennes and GLs and like most around here  will never go off road or even to rhe snow ...just the soccer game, grocery, mall and gym 

    they are the same folks who traded in their S classes and 7 series for the Tesla S en mass the past few years 

    I am sure local German dealers are concerned ...mailny from image standpoint , as the X will be the family hauler to be seen in here ,  not the dinosaur legacy ones like X5, Cayenne and GL  !

     

    It's the same story here in NY. The Model X is the it SUV to have. MB, BMW, Audi and Porsche are all going to loose a lot of market share. Range Rover will def loose a lot of high end market share to Bentley. Going to be a v squeezed market in the $80-120k price range. Advantage Tesla. 


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    SHOCKED  when I read this story ...didn't know European car makers pay pvt firms to test their cars and supply totally stripped out versions to boot which makes mileage testing a joke  ...major conflicts of interest also and the gov'ts just take their results ...very disspointed to discover that there is no EPA like agency in Eurozone ....I suspect we are breathing a lot more real world lung and life damaging pollutants than we think ! 

    I suspect there is long standing complicity  of looking the other way for all involved incl govt officials in Germany to prop the ecomonmy and unions ....ironic that Audi tag line is " Truth in Engineering " !

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-auto-makers-keep-test-firms-close-1443648097

     

     

     

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    As for exterior design it's a very organic design language. Not Japanese or Germany like. Something in the middle. It will attract a lot of buyers in the middle and not the more conversative or extreme crowd. 


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    as far as folding seats ..their studies show the demographics of their buyers for this model have things DELIVERED to them ..they are not the types who are shlepping a crappy $ 1000 big screen TV home from Costco or assemblng a $200 " sofa in a box"  from Ikea ...that is  the  role of  mules like Honda or Toyota minivans !


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:
    EnglishManInNY:
    RC:
    fritz:
    SciFrog:

    You think their prototype is not capable of that? That would be unPorsche like to announce something like that for 2017 if it wasn't possible.

    I doubt that the show-car is even a prototype.  I suspect that that announcement was based on lab tests, not on-the-road experience.

    Smiley Smiley

    Ok RC what information on the Mission E can you share?

    Nothing other than that this car is a project... Smiley Smiley Also, it won't be cheap if Porsche decides to put it on the road. If you thought that the Panamera Hybrid is expensive, wait until you see this puppy. Last but not least, the design will be very likely objectified when it hits the road.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    The panamera is already too expensive. If they don't reflect this in their new generation vehicles then I think they are making a very big mistake. Especially given the fact the world is heading for a growth recession over the next 18months. Tesla will just keep taking market share from the old world car companies. The Gigafactory coming on line next year gives them a massive advantage. They aren't messing around  it's the biggest factory ever built from what I understand.

    Silicon Valley companies think differently and no industry can resist their disruptive style.

     


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    MKW:

    as far as folding seats ..their studies show the demographics of their buyers for this model have things DELIVERED to them ..they are not the types who are shlepping a crappy $ 1000 big screen TV home from Costco or assemling a $200 " sofa in a box"  from Ikea ...that is  the  role of  mules like Honda or Toyota minivans !

    V v true. I have never folded my car seats in my last 3 SUVs.....everything big is delivered. So much easier. 

    Love Amazon Prime! 


    --

     

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    I folded the seats of the Macan yesterday when I needed to move 7 suitcases... It might have fit in the model X though. I fold the seats a few times a year.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    MKW:

    SHOCKED  when I read this story ...didn't know European car makers pay pvt firms to test their cars and supply totally stripped out versions to boot which makes mileage testing a joke  ...major conflicts of interest also and the gov'ts just take their results ...very disspointed to discover that there is no EPA like agency in Eurozone ....I suspect we are breathing a lot more real world lung and life damaging pollutants than we think ! 

    I suspect there is long standing complicity  of looking the other way for all involved incl govt officials in Germany to prop the ecomonmy and unions ....ironic that Audi tag line is " Truth in Engineering " !

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-auto-makers-keep-test-firms-close-1443648097

    This story isn't very accurate and based on some sort of misunderstanding on how the system works. I guess the Wall Street Journal should stick to economics and financials and leave stories like this one to the Washington Post. Smiley

    The TÜV is a private organization per se but not really private, similar to the many government controlled health insurances. Actually, I wish the US had something like the TÜV because in the US, you can basically do lots of aftermarket mods which the German TÜV would never allow. Ever. This doesn't apply to cars only.

    Also, there is something like the EPA in the Eurozone, I don't know why you would think there isn't. Smiley Smiley

    Last but not least, the latest EURO 6 emissions are very similar to the California emissions regulations with some minor differences. Only difference is the testing when it comes to fuel consumption where California requires real life testing and the results are very accurate, while in Europe, it is more of a "theoretical" fuel consumption test which is a bit out of touch with real life situations.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Had some first hand experience with the Tesla model X this weekend. What an awesome SUV. They really went back to the drawing board and created something different. The inside feels like nothing I have seen before, the quality of materials is way up from the S model from 2-3 years ago. They blend leather and alcantara nicely and you can add some modern wood trim or a nice non shiny carbon. Access to the third row is the easiest in any SUV out there. The rear row is not as large as the GL but definitely better than Q7 or equivalent. A tall adult will not like it there but my 5'6" were fine. Leg space in middle and last row were not an issue unlike what was rumored from the first prototypes, yet again not at GL level. The middle row seats pedestals are very cool, the seats can move a lot. Cargo space would be compromised if you are looking for one large flat surface. However for my resonate use of cargo (a lot of boxes or empty suitcases) the compromise is small since I can move the middle seat forward buy not all the way and fit a suitcase there. The front windshield wrapping above your head is cool as is the giant middle screen. They finally put a decent center console instead of a gaping hole in the early model S but a section of it looks plasticky. There is way more space than the GL in the back when you have 7 people plus there is a small trunk in the front.

    Overall impression? I would have bought one one the spot, delivery in 1.5 months (they cleared the wait list?). Red with tan interior and grey wheels. My wife wants to test drive it first and we need to make sure my parking garage will activate the chargers they installed last week. This car is so forward thinking vs everything else and the interior quality is good enough yet not at Germans levels. The design is very love/hate, we like it.

    Even specced nicely at $140k, cost of ownership will probably be way less than the GLS 63 AMG due to better residuals, it can use the HOW lanes and I will never need to stop at a gas station again. Plus the autopilot feature could be very nice for my bi-weekly 65 miles one way commute in traffic...


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Thanks for the write up. 

    Actually, this is another option for us as a family car. I could really see myself driving one!


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    I really hope this is our next 7 seater beater car...


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    The X was on my list as our family beater car .... But , I needed a new car now and I did not want to order it without trying it out . Your impressions nearly make me regret not trying to wait longer . 

    I am a bit surprised at your comment on back row leg room as when I saw the car in Geneva it looked pretty tight ( I did not sit in it ) 


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    I more and more think I should have a deeper look towards the Model X. Might be our daily beater, too. 

    I was sitting in this car frist time 2.5 years ago in Pasadena at the automobile art school. I was totally flashed that day. Fortunately they hardly changed anything on that design, even those cool seats are still the same. 


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    The quality issues would concern me about this vehicle.  Unless TSLA has had a massive ramp in production, the few units produced in in Q4 15 and Q1 16 hint that the company still has not exercised away the issues. 

    Don't forget that the Model S was developed in Detroit and the Model X is the first vehicle completely developed in-house.

     

     

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Had some first hand experience with the Tesla model X this weekend. What an awesome SUV. They really went back to the drawing board and created something different. The inside feels like nothing I have seen before, the quality of materials is way up from the S model from 2-3 years ago. They blend leather and alcantara nicely and you can add some modern wood trim or a nice non shiny carbon. Access to the third row is the easiest in any SUV out there. The rear row is not as large as the GL but definitely better than Q7 or equivalent. A tall adult will not like it there but my 5'6" were fine. Leg space in middle and last row were not an issue unlike what was rumored from the first prototypes, yet again not at GL level. The middle row seats pedestals are very cool, the seats can move a lot. Cargo space would be compromised if you are looking for one large flat surface. However for my resonate use of cargo (a lot of boxes or empty suitcases) the compromise is small since I can move the middle seat forward buy not all the way and fit a suitcase there. The front windshield wrapping above your head is cool as is the giant middle screen. They finally put a decent center console instead of a gaping hole in the early model S but a section of it looks plasticky. There is way more space than the GL in the back when you have 7 people plus there is a small trunk in the front.

    Overall impression? I would have bought one one the spot, delivery in 1.5 months (they cleared the wait list?). Red with tan interior and grey wheels. My wife wants to test drive it first and we need to make sure my parking garage will activate the chargers they installed last week. This car is so forward thinking vs everything else and the interior quality is good enough yet not at Germans levels. The design is very love/hate, we like it.

    Even specced nicely at $140k, cost of ownership will probably be way less than the GLS 63 AMG due to better residuals, it can use the HOW lanes and I will never need to stop at a gas station again. Plus the autopilot feature could be very nice for my bi-weekly 65 miles one way commute in traffic...

    In view of the low production figures we have seen quoted for the last quarters, I don't see how the waiting list could have been cleared by actually delivering the cars.  Smiley  


    --

    fritz


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Somehow you can order a model X now with June delivery, but not the 75kw version. Probably two things: one they only build the 90 version and many orders are for the 75 version, two they probably ramped production a lot.

    Indeed I was surprised at the leg room seeing all the previous comment. Granted we are not very tall people and we use the Macan a lot which has small rear space, but it was a good surprise.

    I played around with the configuration and can't price one up for less than $133k, and the one I really want is $151k (before $7.5k federal rebate and taxes), ouch. Lease pricing aren't that great either. One key question is ludicrous mode or not on top of the P90D.

    You can now test drive one in several location, will try to do that next week.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Somehow you can order a model X now with June delivery, but not the 75kw version. Probably two things: one they only build the 90 version and many orders are for the 75 version, two they probably ramped production a lot.

    Indeed I was surprised at the leg room seeing all the previous comment. Granted we are not very tall people and we use the Macan a lot which has small rear space, but it was a good surprise.

    I played around with the configuration and can't price one up for less than $133k, and the one I really want is $151k (before $7.5k federal rebate and taxes), ouch. Lease pricing aren't that great either. One key question is ludicrous mode or not on top of the P90D.

    You can now test drive one in several location, will try to do that next week.

    That speaks volumes on overall demand.  Evidently, many want the X want the lower cost variants.  


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Hi SciFrog. That Ludicrous mode is just a toy, I easily can skip that. The P90 is certainly a must. Also Autonomous drive, premium, etc. Regarding lease - yep, it is a bit stiff. And - even if you hardly can configure that car, you will have to add 35% to the base price until you have the car you want. 


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Lars997:

    Hi SciFrog. That Ludicrous mode is just a toy, I easily can skip that. The P90 is certainly a must. Also Autonomous drive, premium, etc. Regarding lease - yep, it is a bit stiff. And - even if you hardly can configure that car, you will have to add 35% to the base price until you have the car you want

    The Tesla S P90D I would have wanted (theoretically) and I test-drove was around 145k EUR. Ouch...ouch and...ouch. Smiley Before the test-drive, the dealer mumbled something about 90k EUR or so... I guess he was joking. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Under $110k I would already have pulled the trigger for the X.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Went back to the design studio. After Federal rebate managed to build one for $128k, basically same price as the GLS63AMG but with probably better depreciation. Decision decision...


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    The X is quite a bit smaller than the GLS, so size is also a consideration.


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    fritz:
    SciFrog:

    Had some first hand experience with the Tesla model X this weekend. What an awesome SUV. They really went back to the drawing board and created something different. The inside feels like nothing I have seen before, the quality of materials is way up from the S model from 2-3 years ago. They blend leather and alcantara nicely and you can add some modern wood trim or a nice non shiny carbon. Access to the third row is the easiest in any SUV out there. The rear row is not as large as the GL but definitely better than Q7 or equivalent. A tall adult will not like it there but my 5'6" were fine. Leg space in middle and last row were not an issue unlike what was rumored from the first prototypes, yet again not at GL level. The middle row seats pedestals are very cool, the seats can move a lot. Cargo space would be compromised if you are looking for one large flat surface. However for my resonate use of cargo (a lot of boxes or empty suitcases) the compromise is small since I can move the middle seat forward buy not all the way and fit a suitcase there. The front windshield wrapping above your head is cool as is the giant middle screen. They finally put a decent center console instead of a gaping hole in the early model S but a section of it looks plasticky. There is way more space than the GL in the back when you have 7 people plus there is a small trunk in the front.

    Overall impression? I would have bought one one the spot, delivery in 1.5 months (they cleared the wait list?). Red with tan interior and grey wheels. My wife wants to test drive it first and we need to make sure my parking garage will activate the chargers they installed last week. This car is so forward thinking vs everything else and the interior quality is good enough yet not at Germans levels. The design is very love/hate, we like it.

    Even specced nicely at $140k, cost of ownership will probably be way less than the GLS 63 AMG due to better residuals, it can use the HOW lanes and I will never need to stop at a gas station again. Plus the autopilot feature could be very nice for my bi-weekly 65 miles one way commute in traffic...

    In view of the low production figures we have seen quoted for the last quarters, I don't see how the waiting list could have been cleared by actually delivering the cars.  Smiley  

    Tesla's Q1 report, just released, confirms that there's no way any Model X waiting list deserving of that name can have been cleared: 

    "Tesla said its first-quarter production totaled 15,510 vehicles, which trailed expectations due to parts shortages and other production glitches with the Model X. The shipments include 12,851 Model S vehicles and 2,659 Model X vehicles".

    http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-tesla-earns-20160504-story.html
    --

     

    fritz

     


     
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