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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    throt:

    @ Gnil, lol, been a long long wait mate as you know full well. I have always liked the the more hard core GT3 but I did still consider the 911s and the Cayman but on thinking about it and knowing myself I think I would regret not going straight for what I really want..

    Its a relief because on joining Rennteam I was itchy and then I carried on being itchy for over 8 years. You can only imagine my pain watching you guys buy your rides, haha. Cheers..

    I am sure you did the right thing at the time by  ' not doing it ' . And you as well certainly made the perfect choice by going directly to the core of what you want . The GT3 is going to be a hell of a car Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    DaveC:

    Frequent tracking (I am not talking about your typical driver ed fun weekends) wears off the brake calipers fast, resulting in huge replacement cost.

    I love PCCB and I try to have it on all my Porsche sports cars.

    What is ' frequent tracking ' ?  How many days a year ? 

    What about not too many days, but very hard use/abuse when on the track ?


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    moo:
    RC:
     If you are looking for a car to go from A to B in a very stress-free environment under all driving conditions, I think this is not the right car. A GT3 is a GT3 and while I can see myself using it as a daily driver at age 30, now at 48, I think that I want to have some comfort too, especially when I am tired from work and just want to get home without having to worry too much about rain or bad streets. Or my back. Smiley

    sounds like the perfect job description of the audi RS6 to me.

    peter

    Too slow, not really fun on windy roads...compared to a 991 Turbo S for example. Smiley

    just kidding...i have BMW M5 experience after all....Smiley 4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Anders:

    It's all in their test archive at  www.auto-motor-und-sport.de. In German but it's manageable :). AMS numbers: gen 1 RS: 4.2, 8.8, 13.5. gen 2 RS: 3.9, 8.2, 12.7. RS 4.0: 3.9, 8.0, 12.3. Measured weights: 1428, 1404, 1410 respectively.

    Thanks Anders.That link was good also. Ive written these and the other AMS data on the table and its facinating data. The 991 GT3 out performs all of the previous GT3s including the RS and 4.0RS variants and by quite some margin in most cases.

    What is consistently clear is how the additional person and test gear affect the AMS figures over the factory ones. I will map the factory figures and pput it on a spreadsheet to post here...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Gnil:
    RC:
    DaveC:

    Frequent tracking (I am not talking about your typical driver ed fun weekends) wears off the brake calipers fast, resulting in huge replacement cost.

    I love PCCB and I try to have it on all my Porsche sports cars.

    What is ' frequent tracking ' ?  How many days a year ? 

    What about not too many days, but very hard use/abuse when on the track ?

    The problem is excessive wear of the discs. If they need replacement, it can get very expensive. 

    I would say that one or two abusive track days per year wouldn't hurt but keep in mind that the PCCB discs don't really last much longer than the steel discs when used very hard on the track, so you have kind of a benchmark how expensive PCCB can get if you track race it.

    Very difficult assessment, I agree but those who usually spend only a couple of days per year on the track, do not abuse the brakes. Especially if they join those typical driver ed events.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    Gnil:
    RC:
    DaveC:

    Frequent tracking (I am not talking about your typical driver ed fun weekends) wears off the brake calipers fast, resulting in huge replacement cost.

    I love PCCB and I try to have it on all my Porsche sports cars.

    What is ' frequent tracking ' ?  How many days a year ? 

    What about not too many days, but very hard use/abuse when on the track ?

    The problem is excessive wear of the discs. If they need replacement, it can get very expensive. 

    I would say that one or two abusive track days per year wouldn't hurt but keep in mind that the PCCB discs don't really last much longer than the steel discs when used very hard on the track, so you have kind of a benchmark how expensive PCCB can get if you track race it.

    Very difficult assessment, I agree but those who usually spend only a couple of days per year on the track, do not abuse the brakes. Especially if they join those typical driver ed events.

    There you go. And most people I know that track regularly in 997s/991s (and are advanced enough to fully use the car) go through a set of rotors a season. 

    If you are just starting out at the track you won't use your brakes very hard (though you will think you are) and a couple of days a year aren't going to do much to the car. Once you start getting fast and going more often (10+ track days a year) wear items are going to wear and that includes rotors. With that sort of track time, your maintanance schedule changes drastically. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Mithras:
    Once you start getting fast and going more often (10+ track days a year) wear items are going to wear and that includes rotors. With that sort of track time, your maintanance schedule changes drastically. 

    Very true. In that case, PCCB wouldn't be recommendable. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Mithras:
    RC:
    Gnil:
    RC:
    DaveC:

    Frequent tracking (I am not talking about your typical driver ed fun weekends) wears off the brake calipers fast, resulting in huge replacement cost.

    I love PCCB and I try to have it on all my Porsche sports cars.

    What is ' frequent tracking ' ?  How many days a year ? 

    What about not too many days, but very hard use/abuse when on the track ?

    The problem is excessive wear of the discs. If they need replacement, it can get very expensive. 

    I would say that one or two abusive track days per year wouldn't hurt but keep in mind that the PCCB discs don't really last much longer than the steel discs when used very hard on the track, so you have kind of a benchmark how expensive PCCB can get if you track race it.

    Very difficult assessment, I agree but those who usually spend only a couple of days per year on the track, do not abuse the brakes. Especially if they join those typical driver ed events.

    There you go. And most people I know that track regularly in 997s/991s (and are advanced enough to fully use the car) go through a set of rotors a season. 

    If you are just starting out at the track you won't use your brakes very hard (though you will think you are) and a couple of days a year aren't going to do much to the car. Once you start getting fast and going more often (10+ track days a year) wear items are going to wear and that includes rotors. With that sort of track time, your maintanance schedule changes drastically. 

    Ok...... PCCB are not for me   . On a track like the Nordschliefe , there is not too much agressive braking , there it would be fine for the few days I do, but on the F1 Nürburgring circuit it is already a different story . And then there are the smaller tracks I go to once and a while , like Bresse in France or Dijon and there you get some very hard braking , specially that it is at these points that you get to pass the others. 

    The events I attend are ' free driving' events . So basically , you do what you want on an open track.

    I get to do about 10 days a year.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    It is actually very sad that PCCB cannot be used for extensive track fun without paying a high price. I love the extremely precise breaking point and the brake feel, something I would never want to miss.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    If not for tracking the car the PCCB would never need replacing or even pads.  Once I changed the brake fluid for grins.  My eight year old 997 with 100K miles + still had more than half the pads remaining.  That makes them CHEAP!  NO BRAKE DUST is the thing I miss the most with my Turbo which does not have the PCCB now.  I would LOVE them on the turbo.  I have to believe that the newer versions will be more track ready?  Then again none of the integrated dry sump engines should be on the track anyway.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    It is actually very sad that PCCB cannot be used for extensive track fun without paying a high price. I love the extremely precise breaking point and the brake feel, something I would never want to miss.

    That's why I changed to MovIt carbon silicon-carbide rotors on both my Carrera GT and GT3 RS 4.0.

    IMG_0856.jpg

    They are basically indestructible, even for many track events.  Too bad the manufacturing process is too expensive for Porsche to use in series production. 

    --

    Mike

    Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    W8MM:

    That's why I changed to MovIt carbon silicon-carbide rotors on both my Carrera GT and GT3 RS 4.0.

    They are basically indestructible, even for many track events.  Too bad the manufacturing process is too expensive for Porsche to use in series production. 

    --

    Mike

    Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0

    Mike - I have heard those are awesome.  Would be nice if the new generation PCCB are as good (no reason they shouldn't be, imo).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    Thanks for this AMS data. incredible results for the 991 GT3. Lighter than the last 3-4 gens in testing too. Performance number especially in gear acceleration and braking are out of this world....

     i would guess much of the improvement is due to gearing.


    --

    991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    frayed:
    macca993:

    Thanks for this AMS data. incredible results for the 991 GT3. Lighter than the last 3-4 gens in testing too. Performance number especially in gear acceleration and braking are out of this world....

     i would guess much of the improvement is due to gearing.

    I agree - having 7 close ratios is a huge advantage with this sort of engine.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Agree. Unfortunately it makes it rather difficult to compare against the other data points in the AMS comparison table as they are 6 speed boxes...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Yeah not directly comparable.  But rest of the data are; so still a nice showing. 


    --

    991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    "Uncooked Truth: A Sad State of Manual Transmission Affairs"

    (21 August 2013)

    The manual transmission is becoming less and less available on cars that are more fun than ever to drive. This puts Josh in a predicament like nothing else being such a manual fan, hence the Uncooked Truth about to be said.
     
    Here at RawAutos we take pride in knowing that the manual transmission is the greatest way to drive any car. Whether you like it or not, speed was founded on the principles of having a manual gearbox. That overall connection between you and the machine; visceral in every way.
     
    Sad, then, these days with double-clutch and fast shifting ZF automatic gearboxes. Don’t get me wrong, I love a car, period, with anything in it. Everything engineering fascinates me, as it should any car guy or gal. But I do not like that I can’t option a manual as much anymore. And that really, really infuriates me deep down in my bones. I get a chilling anger and despise towards any car company that basically laughs at me, the manual driver, because I want to swap cogs myself.
     
    “It’s slower.” “It’s not as efficient.” “It’s not cool to do it yourself anymore.”
     
    Well you know what, Hans Gruber, it’s very cool for me to push in a clutch with my left foot while simultaneously moving a gear stick into another gear. If I’m pulling it into a lower gear, I’ll happily heel-toe myself without a computer showing me how inferior I am at it.
     
    Computers are great things, and damnit do I love ‘em. From Google to Facebook, and iMDB, all the way over to this web-’zine where I wrote my first article on October 1, 2007. It’s been nearly 6 years, and my have these interwebz grown since then. I remember the days when YouTube didn’t have resolution above 480p. And I even recall when Jalopnik and Autoblog were still in their infancy and trying to make an important splash.
     
    But I’ll be damned if I’m going to let Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Mercedes-Benz, etc. bully me into choosing what they have to offer just because there are only 45 people that would want that car with a manual anyway. I want it. And damnit, if I’m paying for it, put it in my car... because I said so. Don’t make me go all childhood mother on your asses.
     
    I’m so tired of these interviews where product engineers and vehicle dynamics specialists undermine the question of “why no manual?” or condescendingly reply that a car has too much torque for a clutch pedal. Well you know what, Franz, then take all that power and torque out of the car and let me enjoy all that I can, instead of fantasize about all that I’ll never be able to use. Why can’t I just go to a race track? Well, as much as I want to, it’s a tad difficult when I just took out a $343,784 loan for my brand new 911 Turbo fantastico RS 5.4. It’s really special, because it has contrasting stitching in the seats that looks like a middle finger. Did I mention I couldn’t get a manual transmission with it because that would make it slower around every race track than a Nissan GT-R?
     
    There’s a war going on between everything and the GT-R, folks. It’s cheap(er), not so special to look at or live in, and has more computing power than all of Japan. Oh, and did I mention that it’s faster than anything else, and that does kind of make it bad ass and cool. Isn’t it awesome?! Totes, dude. And I do lift, bro.
     
    Let’s just go through the list of great cars that don’t come with a manual, even though they should.
     
    Aston Martin: Vanquish, Vanquish Volante | Audi: A3 TDI, RS 5, S6, RS 6, S7, RS 7, TTS | Bentley: Continental GT | BMW: 6-Series, 328d, 535d, X1, X3, X5, Z4 sDrive35is | Ferrari: every model… | Hyundai Genesis Sedan | Jaguar: XKR, XKR-S, XFR, XFR-S, F-Type | Lamborghini: Aventador | Mercedes-Benz: SLS AMG, SLS AMG Black Series, well, every AMG product… CLA | Porsche: 991 GT3, 991 Turbo/Turbo S, Panamera GTS, Cayenne GTS
     
    But let’s take a moment and feel good about the cars that do come with a good ol’ fashioned manual.
     
    Aston Martin: V8 Vantage, V12 Vantage/Vantage S | Audi: S4, S5, R8 | BMW: M3, soon-to-be M4 (don’t get me started on that), M5, M6, 3-Series, 4-Series, 1-Series, some of the 535s and 550s | Cadillac: ATS, CTS-V | Chevrolet: Camaro, Corvette Stingray | Chrysler group: Dodge Challenger, SRT Viper | Fiat: 500 Abarth | Ford: Mustang, Focus ST, Fiesta ST | Hyundai Genesis Coupe | Lamborghini: LP560-4 | Lotus: Evora | Mazda: 3, 6, CX-5 | McLaren: MP4-12c | MINI: Cooper, Clubman, Countryman | Porsche: Cayman, 911 Carrera, Boxster | Scion: FR-S | Subaru: BRZ
     
    I know I’m forgetting some cars...
     
    Now the replacement for the Galardo LP560-4 won’t have a manual, but let me take a quick moment to say that you can build a $180,000 Audi R8 V10 Plus with a manual transmission. Yes, a super car that still has a manual gearbox.
     
    But this is what sucks: Porsche are showing off these new, amazing models. I mean, the Turbo and Turbo S have active aerodynamics that do things that no other car can do right now. Also, the new GT3 is absolutely awesome, except for the fact that it’s PDK only, just like the new Turbo.
     
    While I don’t doubt that the new GT3 and Turbo models are going to drive exceptionally. I mean, for God’s sake... they’re Porsches, you think I’m that nuts to think otherwise? But to hear and see Andreas Preuninger speak annoyingly about people wanting a non-PDK gearbox in the GT3 is just ridiculous to me. At some point we have to quit this obsession with speed at any cost and worry about usable performance.
     
    For those that would like to argue against my point that the GT-R is the reason all this is happening, I give you exhibit a: The fastest current lap time of the Nissan GT-R at the Nürburgring is 7:24.22, and Porsche were first saying that the new 2014 911 GT3 would lap the Nordschleife in “under 7:30″. And we’re now hearing it’s about 7:25.
     
    When Flat Sixes interviewed Mr. Preuninger about the new GT3, this was his answer to the question of “why no manual?”
     
    “When a huge part of our customers still insist on a manual we will not ignore this. But, a manual will be not only slower in acceleration but the car will also be less capable in cornering because we cannot combine the electronic e-diff with a manual, because there’s no hydraulic pump in the manual to feed the e-diff. Positive influence of e-diff is significant on turn in, under steer (none at all) and brake stability.”
     
     
    When Road & Track did their first drive of the new GT3 back in April, Jason Cammisa wrote how great the car was, but that there was just something missing:
     
    “The GT3 has always been the 911 that offered the least of what techno-crazed Germans would call “progress,” but as a result, it led the sports-car world in terms of driving experience. It was the rawest, purest expression of everything that defines the 911—right down to its detuned race motor and wrist breaker of a manual shift lever.”
     
    “Ugh, God, you’re one of them!” says Preuninger, rolling his eyes. “Just shut up and drive the thing.” 
     
     
    Later Cammisa said this, which is spot on:
     
    “And while the GT3′s PDK is one of the better automatics, there is not, nor will there ever be, an automatic that is as involving as a manual. The 911, like so many other cars, has traded a degree of involvement for speed. We’d happily lose time on the sprint to 60 mph, or a few seconds per lap, if it meant more fun”
     
    But I also have to say one thing. Car buyers are truly at fault. Lazy, fast food eating, cell phone using, gotta have it now car buyers. The very people that cause the most accidents, drive more irresponsibly, and have a dedicated lack of responsibility in this world. And that’s our fault. We don’t challenge students in school enough, nor do we push them to go after their dreams. Well, we push them to go after their dreams, but we give them the easy way out. Your state government just wants the tax dollars, so they’ll give nearly anyone a license for just studying enough and knowing how to pull into a parking space. Congratulations, society. We’ve made wimpier people that are allowed to drive faster cars just because they have a driver’s license and the money to do so.
     
    Screw that. I’ll gladly accept the fact that I’m a better driver because I want to be. I grew up in a car family, and that drive made me want to be what I am today.
     
    Grow up, people. Get a life and enjoy it for once. Use your left leg, and don’t be ashamed of having to do things yourself, or even think for yourself every once in a while. Put your iPhone down; stop Instagramming; and go out and put your windows down and throw some of that passion into your driving habits.
     
     

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

     Love it ! wink


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    That article sounds like it was written by a short guy -- you know, someone the size of Teo Fabi who can heel-and-toe with wild abandon without banging limbs into the center console.

    In all modern Porsches, save the Carrera GT, my legs are too long to physically be able to heel-and-toe the pedals without requiring orthopedic surgery for the purpose.  That includes my wonderful RS 4.0.  In my long-ago '74 911 IROC RS, there was no center console to constrict my leg movements and I could play the pedals like the bass register of a pipe organ -- it was sweet.

    No more.  Everyone can complain about  car buyers forcing the market toward automatic shift gearboxes but consider the market of short people moving foot boxes toward the miniature!  A total fail for tall people.

    I, for one, speaking as a tall guy, will welcome two pedal driving because I'll be faster.  The short guys will still have a weight advantage over my considerable driver's mass, but at least ZF and Porsche have invented an equalizer for cramped driving spaces only accessible to the short femur, tiny feet crowd.

    Long live PDK!!!!!


    --

    Mike

    Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    indecision kiss

    I also don't understand why everybody seems to talk about AUTOMATIC??? People can use PDK in MANUAL mode, only the clutch is missing. When the PDK works right, I enjoy driving in manual mode.

    I had PDK on my 997 Carrera GTS Cab. Used it in manual mode a couple of times, didn't like it (shifting wasn't that great, speed was annoying) and drove in auto mode most of the time. Same goes to my Panamera Turbo S, which was even worse regarding PDK (auto mode all the way).

    Then, I got a 991 Carrera S Cab loaner for a weekend, the latest model with an improved PDK. What a fun to shift manually, it was a real pleasure.

    I haven't extensively driven the new GT3 yet (was more interested in the new Turbo S) but according to reports I heard, the new PDK (and it is truly new) is amazing. If it is only half as good as the improved PDK in the new Turbo S, people will love it. Auto mode, manual mode...the choice is yours. I won't miss the clutch and I hate it to be slower than others. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    indecision kiss

    I also don't understand why everybody seems to talk about AUTOMATIC??? People can use PDK in MANUAL mode, only the clutch is missing. When the PDK works right, I enjoy driving in manual mode.

    I had PDK on my 997 Carrera GTS Cab. Used it in manual mode a couple of times, didn't like it (shifting wasn't that great, speed was annoying) and drove in auto mode most of the time. Same goes to my Panamera Turbo S, which was even worse regarding PDK (auto mode all the way).

    Then, I got a 991 Carrera S Cab loaner for a weekend, the latest model with an improved PDK. What a fun to shift manually, it was a real pleasure.

    I haven't extensively driven the new GT3 yet (was more interested in the new Turbo S) but according to reports I heard, the new PDK (and it is truly new) is amazing. If it is only half as good as the improved PDK in the new Turbo S, people will love it. Auto mode, manual mode...the choice is yours. I won't miss the clutch and I hate it to be slower than others. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    I'll tell you why everyone refers to it as an AUTOMATIC...in the eyes of the U.S. federal government it is an automatic and is listed as so on the Mahoney or window sticker.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    CGX car nut:

    I'll tell you why everyone refers to it as an AUTOMATIC...in the eyes of the U.S. federal government it is an automatic and is listed as so on the Mahoney or window sticker.

    I guess that makes the US government as ignorant as some of the people on here who don't understand the difference (or the intricacies of the NEW PDK-S gearbox).

    Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    sidicks:
    CGX car nut:

    I'll tell you why everyone refers to it as an AUTOMATIC...in the eyes of the U.S. federal government it is an automatic and is listed as so on the Mahoney or window sticker.

    I guess that makes the US government as ignorant as some of the people on here who don't understand the difference (or the intricacies of the NEW PDK-S gearbox).

    Smiley

    "Manual transmission (also known as a stick shift, stick, straight drive or standard transmission) means a transmission utilizing a driver-operated clutch that is activated by a pedal or lever and a gear-shift mechanism operated either by hand or foot. All other transmissions, whether semi-automatic or automatic, will be considered automatic for the purposes of the standardized restriction code." (emphasis added)

    Source:  http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=383.5


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    CGX car nut:

    "Manual transmission (also known as a stick shift, stick, straight drive or standard transmission) means a transmission utilizing a driver-operated clutch that is activated by a pedal or lever and a gear-shift mechanism operated either by hand or foot. All other transmissions, whether semi-automatic or automatic, will be considered automatic for the purposes of the standardized restriction code." (emphasis added)

    Source:  http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=383.5

    Nice catch!!  Smiley


    --

    Mike

    Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    W8MM:
    CGX car nut:

    "Manual transmission (also known as a stick shift, stick, straight drive or standard transmission) means a transmission utilizing a driver-operated clutch that is activated by a pedal or lever and a gear-shift mechanism operated either by hand or foot. All other transmissions, whether semi-automatic or automatic, will be considered automatic for the purposes of the standardized restriction code." (emphasis added)

    Source:  http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=383.5

    Nice catch!!  Smiley

    Thank you.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    What would the sensomatics be then? My mom had a sensomatic beetle cab years ago as a fun summer car. I think it might have been the slowest car ever made. Porsche did a sensomatic for a short time as well. 

    *sensomatic being a stickshift which when you put your hand on it and very lightly moved it would engage the clutch until the stickshift was no longer being held. It only had two pedals.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    indecision kiss

    I had PDK on my 997 Carrera GTS Cab. Used it in manual mode a couple of times, didn't like it (shifting wasn't that great, speed was annoying) and drove in auto mode most of the time. Same goes to my Panamera Turbo S, which was even worse regarding PDK (auto mode all the way).

    The PDK in your Panamera Turbo S was slow? Strange, in my GTS it feels lightning fast. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    There is NO WAY a PDK is a manual.  To use alinsky tactics to make fun of people who think it is not a manual is laughable and makes one look foolish.  If RC really believes a PDK in manual mode is in any way like a real manual then I question if he has ever driven a car!  The way you can tell you are in a manual it that it NEVER SHIFTS on its own, when you come to a stop the engine stalls if you don't push in the clutch.  If it does not have a clutch or it can shift on its own then it is not a manual.  You can call it any type of automatic you like, you can say you are shifting the automatic manually - but please don't say it is a manual - ever.  Just makes you sound silly.

    Mithras - you are referring to Sporto-matic and it functioned as you describe.  Touch the lever and the clutch would disengage.allowing you to shift.  It had a torque converter when stopped.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    My father thought synchromesh gearboxes were developed for people who couldn't properly use a.clutch.  It's all a matter of perspective and the times you are born into.  


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Leawood911:

    The way you can tell you are in a manual it that it NEVER SHIFTS on its own, when you come to a stop the engine stalls if you don't push in the clutch...

    So the fact that the 991 GT3 PDK-S NEVER shifts on its own when in manual mode is lost on you?  Plus of of course you can stall the PDK-S..

    Now who's foolish?  Smiley

    The key point of course is that IN MANUAL MODE, the gears are directly controlled by the driver 'manually' - this is why people talk about the GT3 in this way - it's totally different than a conventional automatic, which is the key point.


     
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