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    The Odd Saga of X51

    Rennteamers - does anyone have an intelligent explanation for this:

    For the last few months, I have been attempting to build a C4S with the X51 powerkit option (which is heavily detailed in both printed Porsche literature in the USA and is a checkable option on the Porsche website). After putting in for February 06 production, my dealer indicated that Porsche was not accepting the X51 option. Since a decent number of posters here have X51s, I figured this was just an oddity. After a couple months of an information vacuum, I get a call. My dealer claims to have lobbied Porsche AG fairly hard to make an X51 available and called me today to indicate one was available for June production if I still wanted it. I had heard from some sources that the issue with X51 was inventory availability, i.e., that Porsche ordered the parts set for a certain number of X51s and demand exceeded supply so they cut the market off for awhile. I was understandably perplexed that my dealer's "lobbying" efforts finally secured an X51.

    Making matters a bit weirder, my dealer has suggested that X51 probably won't be an option in MY2007 or beyond according to Porsche. It is not outside suspicion that they just want to sell me a heavily optioned car and are embellishing reality - but leaving that motive aside - I come up with a few plausible explanations for all this.

    1 - Porsche only planned on making a small run of X51s and they are down to a small remaining number of cars and are allocating these sparsely. Maybe they don't want X51s competing with turbos for wallet share?

    2 - There are glitches with reliability in X51s and Porsche does not want to build too many more but will still take a few overzelous fans' money.

    3 - There is some bump in capabilities brewing for 911 engines pending and Porsche does not want to sell this expensive option right into that upgrade. FYI - I have heard that some form of DFI engine system is eventually planned and may coincide with the introduction of DSG systems in 2008 or 2009.

    I am portfolio manager and follow the german automakers at a corporate level and have heard from the source (porsche cfo) that the 997 refresh was fully planned before the first 997s were on the road. DSG is definitely a large part of the refresh; not so sure on the DFI.

    Well - what do you think? Explanation 1,2, or 3, or maybe something else that explains all this. Please leave dealer motivations out of this discussion.

    Thanks

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    When I used to have my cayenne, I remember the same kind of thing happened to me but don't remmeber exactly what option but i do remember that when my car came to the dealer, there is one option that is missing and my dealer's explaination is that they don't have enough supply for that option and it won't be available for a little while.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Quote:
    bigonion said:
    1 - Porsche only planned on making a small run of X51s and they are down to a small remaining number of cars and are allocating these sparsely. Maybe they don't want X51s competing with turbos for wallet share?

    2 - There are glitches with reliability in X51s and Porsche does not want to build too many more but will still take a few overzelous fans' money.

    3 - There is some bump in capabilities brewing for 911 engines pending and Porsche does not want to sell this expensive option right into that upgrade. FYI - I have heard that some form of DFI engine system is eventually planned and may coincide with the introduction of DSG systems in 2008 or 2009.




    Bigonion,
    Fist of all, don't trust your dealer but you knew that already.
    I have a X51 997S and it is fantastic, however, I did have to wait an additional 6 months because of that option. My case was different as the option has just been announced when I ordered the car. I'm not sure about availibility now, maybe RC can help you but as far as I'm concerned, I don't see why Porsche would take it off the option list.
    As regards to your answers:
    1 - Even though X51 is a great option, the Turbo evolves in another league all together. I certainly don't see X51 a potential competition for the Turbo. Not even the GT3, but the latter model is too focused.
    2 - No idea about that. Only have 6,500 kms on my car with four pretty heavy track days and nothing whatsoever. All good in terms of quality and reliability.
    3 - No don't think so, doesn't make sense. Why postpone later the profit that you can make today?
    I think your dealer is playing with you but I could be wrong.
    Direct fuel injection and sequential gearbox have been in the pipes for a long time and I don't think any issue re X51 is related to them.
    My personal option is that Porsche won't release a product until it's perfect. And today, the perfect sequential gearbox adapted for road use does not exist.
    I expect PDK for the 998 but maybe I'm pesimistic.
    DFI is another matter, technology is there, but the problem is that available fuel from petrol stations is still too high in sulfure content for DFI to be efficient, especially in the US.
    However, check out Mercedes new Petrol V6, a fantastic engineering tour de force, the CLS 320 DGI.
    Good luck!

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    imho, X51 is no longer feasible given the arrival of the 997TT.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    IMHO if you find the GT3 too extreme and you want a quick 2wd Carrera then X51 is perfect. I regret not ordering it on my C2S. A fully specced C2S X51 is still a lot less money than a TT in Europe. TT is of course much quicker in the mid range but for pure driving pleasure I suspect a C2S X51 with -20mm LSD will take some beating on your favourite roads.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    I THINK ITS JUST a matter of allocation of small resources..
    They just did expect, how many would be eager ,to pay such money ,for the X51 package

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    According to the dealer I'm talking to in Germany he can get X51 no problem on a C2S and when do I want my car....

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Quote:
    Oxonian said:
    imho, X51 is no longer feasible given the arrival of the 997TT.



    if 30.000 Euros are nothing, then you are right.

    AM

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Quote:
    Oxonian said:
    imho, X51 is no longer feasible given the arrival of the 997TT.

    I'm soory but, a 997s with some options and the x51, is going to be in the $105000 range. While a 997TT will be almost $130000 after options. Don't get me wrong the TT would be nice to have but, that a big jump in $.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    I placed an order for the X51 kit on 12/22/05 and put a sizable deposit down. This week I followed up with the dealer thinking 3 months and no word was being more than patient. I was told that NO X51 kits had entered the US and that they are still working through the back-log issues. The German Parts supplier (apparently for all US dealers) agreed to air-freight the kit (when available???) at no expense to me. I still have some doubt that I will ever see the kit!

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    My friend approached a dealer a few days ago and was told the same thing. No X51 because of inventory. And I believe the same applies for PSE. You're not allowed to order PSE for the remainder of the 2006 model run. So, if you want to order a new 997 and want PSE, you need to order a 2007.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Was the X51 option ever popularly speced for the type 996 range?
    Porsche AG never expected the overwhelming response of this option for the type 997

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Quote:
    meaker said:
    Quote:
    Oxonian said:
    imho, X51 is no longer feasible given the arrival of the 997TT.

    I'm soory but, a 997s with some options and the x51, is going to be in the $105000 range. While a 997TT will be almost $130000 after options. Don't get me wrong the TT would be nice to have but, that a big jump in $.



    For another $25000 you'll have the fastest production car on the planet.

    But you're right, it is a big jump.

    I don't understand why is it so expensive in Europe (in comparison to the USA and GCC).

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Quote:
    bigonion said:
    1 - Porsche only planned on making a small run of X51s and they are down to a small remaining number of cars and are allocating these sparsely. Maybe they don't want X51s competing with turbos for wallet share?

    2 - There are glitches with reliability in X51s and Porsche does not want to build too many more but will still take a few overzelous fans' money.





    As fanch very eloquently answered your questions, I contacted my dealer in Houston and asked them regarding X51 package. I was also surprised to find out that based on PCNA order they can't take any orders for X51 at this time , don't know why though.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    The US dealers have been saying that they have had troubles getting the X51 package because of the short supply (many are trying to get a build slot from other dealers because of customer orders). I think that there was a surprise at the number of people willing to spend the US$20k for the powerkit.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Local dealers advised me that x51 can only be added to 2007 orders. They can't do it for 2006 orders anymore due to shortage of inventory.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    The big price premium of the turbo and the realistic timing of late 2007 if I got in line now have something to do with my decision. A lot of it is just a personal choice issue - I really hate all the gaudiness of the turbo. All the add-ons ruin the lines and make it into a bit of a "guido" car. I know the performance is nuclear but it is just about unusable day to day. The reviews of the X51 have been quite enthusiastic and it is appealing to have a car that very few others out there would have. I can see the argument for X51 on a C2S but having a good winter car is also appealing. I just don't want to buy something that is going to be obsolete too soon.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Quote:
    Oxonian said:
    imho, X51 is no longer feasible given the arrival of the 997TT.



    I guess if money is not an issue.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    I was one of the first orders in for the X51 but did not receive my car until January. I think the X51 even at its crazy price sold better than expected and I heard it was the airboxes that were causing the delay and why no more orders being taken.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    That sounds very plausible. How do you like the car?

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    I ordered my X-51 Cab S in Oct2005 for a late Nov. build; it was completed in mid-December and I took delivery in late January. Without inviting the price comparison shoppers, the car is fantastic and a palpable improvement over the 'regular' S car(I already had two). I know, the Turbo will 'trounce it', but, again, if you've driven AWD Turbos (I've owned two 996 variants) they are markedly different in feel to (especially this) potent RWD normal aspiration car. In addition, with X51 I can have the added power in a Cab (not interested in tracking the car). As for reliability - can't tell any difference although I've not yet put on enough miles. Doubt its an issue. The X51 price in the US, as you know, is about 17k and includes the PSE as part of the package, so the 'net' price (as many buy the PSE anyhow, and it improves only aural performance) is 14k. If you get a discount at purchase, you have, without question, one of the finest, sweetest RWD normally aspirated Porsche cars in a long time - at not too much of a price difference.
    I think that Porsche has revived its long time customer base, and garnered much critical acclaim, with the new 997S. Demand seems strong, people seem willing to step up for myriad (not cheap)cosmetic options, and, in the end, I suspect Porsche underestimated the demand for this option.
    There are two X51 cars I believe available in US. PM me for possible lead.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Love the car and for marital reasons probably the last one i will be able to buy for a long while without causing war. That is the reason I heavily optioned the car but makes no sense from a resale or financial standpoint. The X51 is very noticable above 6000 rpm but as a daily driver you are probably fine with an S.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Quote:
    BSL said:
    The US dealers have been saying that they have had troubles getting the X51 package because of the short supply (many are trying to get a build slot from other dealers because of customer orders). I think that there was a surprise at the number of people willing to spend the US$20k for the powerkit.



    Not to quible, but it's $16,900 (US)--and I thank my lucky stars every day that I was fortunate enough to be chosen to buy a Club Coupe.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    I would have loved to have ordered my car w/X51, you guys are fortunate!!!

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Surprising to see this X51 in current inventory in Ohio.
    Lightly optioned, just your basic $104K rocketship.

    http://stoddard.porschedealer.com/new_cars/info.php?inventoryid=214063

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    I must concur with ale. I wasn't willing to wait for a 997TT Cab, and I prefer 2WD anyway. Ordered my car 10/1. Was supposed to be Nov. build. Delivered 2/10.No interest in tracking, but car is extremely quick and all you could ask for on a country road or highway. I mean 0-60 around 4.0..Where pray tell can you REALISTICLY use much more power in everyday driving. Sure 14K is 14K (PSE comes with X51) but included is the CF airbox, modified exhaust manifolds, cams, cylinder heads, alum. intake, revised ECU, and additional radiator, all with a unique engine sound, and all under Porsche factory warranty. Start throwing these all these mods aftermarket w/out warranty and 14K becomes not so crazy.
    When early reports on X51 came out( the Club Coupe cars), that is when the option got very desirable and demand far exceeded supply. It transforms the S to another level.

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Ordered my car in early Aug'05 and was given the initial slots when PAG first opened the order books for the powerkit after lauching the club coupe in the US, and finally got my car end November'05...lucky me
    It has earned its acclaimed stars alright and it certainly trounced all previous variants of the carreras and even kept up neatly with slightly modded 996Turbos too.
    As ale rightly pointed out, "its certainly one of the finest, sweetest RWD normally aspirated Porsche produced in a long time" notwithstanding the 996GT3s of course...but very close . Power and engine/exhaust note differs vastly from the regular C2S.

    You got to drive it to believe it.
    Cheers

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    now why did you get that thing of the engine??????????

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Quote:
    DILINGER said:
    now why did you get that thing of the engine??????????


    hehe...to admire the wealth and depth of the extra large and ultra light weight cabon fiber airbox.

    Its wonderful...isn't it?

    Re: The Odd Saga of X51

    Quote:
    Paul S in TX said:
    Not to quible, but it's $16,900 (US)--and I thank my lucky stars every day that I was fortunate enough to be chosen to buy a Club Coupe.



    Yep, my mistake. I was thinking about the price of the power kit on the Cayenne Turbo--d'oh!

     
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