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    Need to improve acceleration time

    Just bought my car two months ago , new 911s with manual transmassion. This is my first manual car to be honest and I have a bit of lag time accelerating when shifting gears from first to second. Was wondering what is the best or recommended rpm range to shift to fist to second gear for this vehicle? I would eventually like to be able to hit 0-60 under 5 seconds.
    thanks,
    Matt

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    One thing I think works is to keep your eyes "fully" on the Tach when revving up in 1st and going to 2nd; eyes back on the road as fast as possible when shift is initiated.

    Kinda "dangerous" so make sure you're in the middle of nowhere when you try it.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    1,500 to 2K. I still find I have to take it easy off the line after about 3 years of ownership. Seems to be a fine balance of over revving and stalling it.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    First-to-Second gear shift points:

    1 - Normal driving: shift 2-3K
    2 - Spirited driving: 4K
    3 - MaxPerf: 6k

    3 is pretty senseless if you ask me. A 911 (including a Turbo) is no boy-racer strip dragster.

    My launches are usually done around 1k or less.


    Note: only do (2) or (3) above when engine oil temp is at normal working temp.

    P.S. - glance the tach but by all means do NOT glue your eyes on the tach or you may crash...

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    First-to-Second gear shift points:

    1 - Normal driving: shift 2-3K
    2 - Spirited driving: 4K
    3 - MaxPerf: 6k

    3 is pretty senseless if you ask me. A 911 (including a Turbo) is no boy-racer strip dragster.

    My launches are usually done around 1k or less.


    Note: only do (2) or (3) above when engine oil temp is at normal working temp.

    P.S. - glance the tach but by all means do NOT glue your eyes on the tach or you may crash...



    With all the respect...but are you all granny's in the US?

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    beltar said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:
    First-to-Second gear shift points:

    1 - Normal driving: shift 2-3K
    2 - Spirited driving: 4K
    3 - MaxPerf: 6k

    3 is pretty senseless if you ask me. A 911 (including a Turbo) is no boy-racer strip dragster.

    My launches are usually done around 1k or less.


    Note: only do (2) or (3) above when engine oil temp is at normal working temp.

    P.S. - glance the tach but by all means do NOT glue your eyes on the tach or you may crash...



    With all the respect...but are you all granny's in the US?



    We're just pulling your leg.

    I normally shift at around 4000 rpm.

    If I really want to take off, I shift between 5000 and 6000 rpm.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    beltar said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:
    First-to-Second gear shift points:

    1 - Normal driving: shift 2-3K
    2 - Spirited driving: 4K
    3 - MaxPerf: 6k

    3 is pretty senseless if you ask me. A 911 (including a Turbo) is no boy-racer strip dragster.

    My launches are usually done around 1k or less.


    Note: only do (2) or (3) above when engine oil temp is at normal working temp.

    P.S. - glance the tach but by all means do NOT glue your eyes on the tach or you may crash...



    With all the respect...but are you all granny's in the US?



    I want to appologize for my fellow misguided Americans. 7200 is the redline and I USE IT. If you want to go fast why shift any sooner? You need to go there to be in the meat for the next gear.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    I tried to write something constructive, and couldn't manage to keep the sarcasm at bay....

    Why do people approach shifting like they would approach microwaving popcorn???

    Driving is like running on-foot, you do whatever works well, relying on the feedback through your body for critical information, and you adjust accordingly... How do you know what works well?? Self-awareness and logic... In short, if you can't figure it out on your own, you may just want to trade her back in on a Lexus...

    Damn, there's the sarcasm.... Can't....resist....temptation......

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    I'm always shocked at how low in the rpm range people shift. Lugging the engine is bad - whenever I let someone drive my car I always remind them to not shift the second the car starts rolling LOL.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    chrisNY said:
    I'm always shocked at how low in the rpm range people shift. Lugging the engine is bad - whenever I let someone drive my car I always remind them to not shift the second the car starts rolling LOL.



    Good point.

    However AFAIK, the engine has big horsepower and Tq for __racing__. Doesn't need it for the streets.

    According to my amateur conclusions: That means you can run the thing in 4th gear and 1200 rpm and still accelerate at residential street speeds when you put foot down and NOT lug engine. (I might be off by a gear, I can't remember exactly: try it yourself).

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    "Lugging is bad" is a bit generic, and really applies to ultra-low lugs in higher gears where you're really multiplying the strains...

    And in many cars, like my big block muscle cars, there's hardly anything you can do that would qualify as "lugging", as the torque-monsters would pull a stump in 4th gear without breaking a sweat....

    Your engine will "talk to you" and let you know when you're too low for the gear and conditions... And yes, many people ignore what the engine is trying to tell them, they're oblivious...

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Fine, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "lugging". I still don't for the life of my know why you'd buy this car and shift at 1200 rpms'

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    beltar said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:
    First-to-Second gear shift points:

    1 - Normal driving: shift 2-3K
    2 - Spirited driving: 4K
    3 - MaxPerf: 6k

    3 is pretty senseless if you ask me. A 911 (including a Turbo) is no boy-racer strip dragster.

    My launches are usually done around 1k or less.


    Note: only do (2) or (3) above when engine oil temp is at normal working temp.

    P.S. - glance the tach but by all means do NOT glue your eyes on the tach or you may crash...



    With all the respect...but are you all granny's in the US?



    I think they are indeed.

    Under 4,000rpm, you've got some nice power but it's above that the going gets fast.

    I usually shift to 2nd at 5 or 6 and then go up to 7 in 2nd.

    Even on a tip. But like MMD said, you tend to look at the tachometre instead of looking in front of you. I did it 2 or 3 times, barely looking where I was going. But I was getting used to the car. After a while you jut know.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    chrisNY said:
    I'm always shocked at how low in the rpm range people shift. Lugging the engine is bad - whenever I let someone drive my car I always remind them to not shift the second the car starts rolling LOL.



    Good point.

    However AFAIK, the engine has big horsepower and Tq for __racing__. Doesn't need it for the streets.

    According to my amateur conclusions: That means you can run the thing in 4th gear and 1200 rpm and still accelerate at residential street speeds when you put foot down and NOT lug engine. (I might be off by a gear, I can't remember exactly: try it yourself).



    That's how I was driving it at first. Like if it was a diesel. Shifting at 3,000 or 4,000 rpm, and asking myself what all the fuss was abou. When you hit 7,000, you finaly understand what porsches are about.

    But driving an old 964 at 2000rpm is impossible. There's nothing. That's what cool about the new porsches, you can drive around like if it was a golf.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    amazon said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    chrisNY said:
    I'm always shocked at how low in the rpm range people shift. Lugging the engine is bad - whenever I let someone drive my car I always remind them to not shift the second the car starts rolling LOL.



    Good point.

    However AFAIK, the engine has big horsepower and Tq for __racing__. Doesn't need it for the streets.

    According to my amateur conclusions: That means you can run the thing in 4th gear and 1200 rpm and still accelerate at residential street speeds when you put foot down and NOT lug engine. (I might be off by a gear, I can't remember exactly: try it yourself).



    That's how I was driving it at first. Like if it was a diesel. Shifting at 3,000 or 4,000 rpm, and asking myself what all the fuss was abou. When you hit 7,000, you finaly understand what porsches are about.

    But driving an old 964 at 2000rpm is impossible. There's nothing. That's what cool about the new porsches, you can drive around like if it was a golf.




    BTW, I derived the concept I espoused above from my M3 with SMG.

    The engine also has Lots of Tq and HP.

    Put the SMG in "automatic" at the "granny" setting and you'll see BMW's computer decides to run the car in a gear which seems, at first, waaaaay too high at RPMs which seemed waaay too low.

    That's when I got the clue that you can't "lug" these engines unless you do things at..., what...?, 500 (five hundred!) rpms?



    Soooooo, the reason we have six speeds is for racing and shaving tenths.

    For street driving, just put it in second or third (or fourth?) and forget about it.

    Sometimes I go directly from first to third.

    Kerazy!

    P.S. With my new Turbo? It's even more nuts. Haven't gotten used to it yet, might be exaggerating or misrepresenting here, but it seems like it'll do _any_thing in _any_ gear compared to the 997S I had.


    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    First-to-Second gear shift points:

    1 - Normal driving: shift 2-3K
    2 - Spirited driving: 4K
    3 - MaxPerf: 6k

    3 is pretty senseless if you ask me. A 911 (including a Turbo) is no boy-racer strip dragster.

    My launches are usually done around 1k or less.


    Note: only do (2) or (3) above when engine oil temp is at normal working temp.

    P.S. - glance the tach but by all means do NOT glue your eyes on the tach or you may crash...



    I think this advice is spot on. A Porsche is all about flow and maintaining corner speeds round that would freak out people in other cars.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    SimonWall said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:
    First-to-Second gear shift points:

    1 - Normal driving: shift 2-3K
    2 - Spirited driving: 4K
    3 - MaxPerf: 6k

    3 is pretty senseless if you ask me. A 911 (including a Turbo) is no boy-racer strip dragster.

    My launches are usually done around 1k or less.


    Note: only do (2) or (3) above when engine oil temp is at normal working temp.

    P.S. - glance the tach but by all means do NOT glue your eyes on the tach or you may crash...



    I think this advice is spot on. A Porsche is all about flow and maintaining corner speeds round that would freak out people in other cars.



    SPOT ON? Please help me understand ...

    Is this post about improving acceleration time or how to cruise, get good mileage and respect from the law?

    If you want to accelerate quickly (read - as fast as possible) then I would consider shifting at near redline every time as the SPOT ON advice.
    Please help me understand how you can get better acceleration any other way? This is not advice for how to drive on the street, it is how to get the car moving to it's potential. (less than 5sec. to 60mph based on the original question)


    My advice for driving on the street is to Obey all laws, don't drive in the passing lane (if you know what that is) and signal all your turns. Common sense should be able to guide you while driving a 997 on the street without a discussion on what rpm to shift at.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    SimonWall said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:
    First-to-Second gear shift points:

    1 - Normal driving: shift 2-3K
    2 - Spirited driving: 4K
    3 - MaxPerf: 6k

    3 is pretty senseless if you ask me. A 911 (including a Turbo) is no boy-racer strip dragster.

    My launches are usually done around 1k or less.


    Note: only do (2) or (3) above when engine oil temp is at normal working temp.

    P.S. - glance the tach but by all means do NOT glue your eyes on the tach or you may crash...



    I think this advice is spot on. A Porsche is all about flow and maintaining corner speeds round that would freak out people in other cars.




    Finally someone with a thinking head.

    I tried to offer 3 driving styles in response to a genuine question, fitting a broad range of scenarios. The simplistic "boy-racer" response was not totally unexpected.

    For those who think my number (3) or above should be the norm... go ahead and shift at 5k or above in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Make my day! I say bumper-to-bumper traffic because these cars should be daily drivers. If they are just garage queens for occasional weekend use then sure, take them to the drag strip every time.

    P.S. - This board used to be a great place to learn things porsche and have level-headed meaningful discussions. In recent months both topics and the level of interchange of ideas and experiences has deteriorated. I also notice that a lot of contributors with true no-nonsense P-car experience seldom post. Too bad!

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    ADias,
    Not only do I have a thinking head I have a set of eyes that I use to read the original question. The beauty of this forum is that sometimes, after all the BS and opinons, the dust settles and information is finally exchanged.
    How does your response answer the question of what RPM to shift at to achive max performance? After your advice you then dog anyone who differs with your 'sensible approach' to get a faster 0-60 time.
    I do not recall any mention of bumper to bumper traffic. Stick to the topic if you want to complain about responses.

    While I answered the question based on facts (near as redline as possible as you may recall) that does not mean you need to take shots at my advice. I have faith in the members of this forum to be able to select which answer (mine or yours) answers the original question correctly.

    As always, obey all laws.
    Cheers,

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    ADias said:

    I also notice that a lot of contributors with true no-nonsense P-car experience seldom post. Too bad!



    They've all gone to the Turbo Board because it's a more newly introduced model with lots of no-nonsense issues to iron out. 997's been out for three years.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:

    I also notice that a lot of contributors with true no-nonsense P-car experience seldom post. Too bad!



    They've all gone to the Turbo Board because it's a more newly introduced model with lots of no-nonsense issues to iron out. 997's been out for three years.



    Not really. I was referring to the rennteam board as a whole.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:

    I also notice that a lot of contributors with true no-nonsense P-car experience seldom post. Too bad!



    They've all gone to the Turbo Board because it's a more newly introduced model with lots of no-nonsense issues to iron out. 997's been out for three years.



    Not really. I was referring to the rennteam board as a whole.



    That's ridiculous. And what's with the attitude? And who are you referring to?

    The guy's asking how to improve his acceleration time, not how to drive down town in heavy trafic.

    As I said, you can drive it like a golf diesel if you want too, the 997 has enoguh torque to go through traffic between 1000 and 3000 rpm. But you're not going to improve your "acceleration time" by doing so.

    What's wrong with 7,000 pm anyway? you bought the car to enjoy it. If it's not for taking advantge of its potential, then there's no need to get a 997.

    As leawood said, you have to read the original question. That said, you can definitly enjoy the car at low revs. But why do you (adias) buy a porsche if you don't exploit it. Why do you need an engine that goes up to 7,200 rpm if you never go above 6,000. You paid a 100k for nothing. A golf GT1 at 25k would give you the same pleasure.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Amazon: You of all people please do not patronize me. I own my P-cars you know? The last thing I need is a delivery boy to tell me how to drive a 911.

    As I said... these boards are no longer what they used to be.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Amazon: You of all people please do not patronize me. I own my P-cars you know? The last thing I need is a delivery boy to tell me how to drive a 911.

    As I said... these boards are no longer what they used to be.



    You own your porsche? Good for you. Why should I care?
    The board is no longer what it used to because you call people boy racers and delivery boy. I guess you don't like my comments just because I'm not an owner. But that doesn't mean what I said is wrong.

    Instead of insulting people and treating people like sh*t, you should try to give arguments on why going to 7,000 rpm makes you a boy racer. But I guess you're too much of a snob to discuss that with someone like me, "the delivery boy".

    That's what I dislike so much in (some) porsche owners: those who think they're better and know better because they own, and look down on others like they're no one.

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Aw Geez..., Fellas..., Don't go there... .

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Whoa!

    Just to get back to the topic which was asking how to get faster 0-60......
    Trust me, you really don't want to be doing 0-60 in under 5 seconds. If you saw how they achieve those figures you wouldn't want to do it to your own car - it means dumping the clutch at the start, which puts an enourmous strain on clutch, driveshafts and gearbox, flat shifting (ie not using the clutch to change gear) through the gears and so on. It is brutal.
    By all means use your 911 as it's meant to be used, but abuse it like this just to get a 0-60 time? Not worth it IMHO

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Jeez, why is this thread turning into a battle?...

    Regarding the basis of the thread... Optimal acceleration on a 997?? One baby-mouse-whisker shy of fuel-cut-off, that's where, end of discussion.. Just look at any stock 997S dyno sheet, and you'll see that upshifting earlier in the range lands you further down on power as you drop lower on the rpms with the next shift...

    Achieving good just-shy-of-redline shifts is tough on the street, and you often find yourself mistakenly hitting the limiter, because you've got to pay SO MUCH ATTENTION to what's around you.. Even in the middle of nowhere, you're wondering about pot-holes and scrambling deer..

    On a drag-strip, it's the other way around... You use your peripheral vision for the driving, and your primary focus is square on the tach for razor-accurate upshifts.. It's the only place you can really make the most of an acceleration run, anywhere else, you're just wasting gas and clutch life..

    Lastly, for normal every-day around-town driving, shifting anything that has useable and easy torque over the majority of its rpm range at 5,000+ rpms each time is rather pointless... Sure, Porsches were "made to perform at high RPM's", but when you're diddling around town, there's nothing up there that you need or are really using, you're just making a crapload of noise, wearing your engine at double the pace, and being conspicuous... The power is up there for when you need it or when you want it. But to be singing around up there all the time, just because you think that's "how a Porsche should be driven", is just romanticism... Not much different than a body-builder walking around downtown in a perputaul tensed-up pose...

    Now I'm not religious about such things, as I drive my car very organically, as an extension of myself... I do whatever the hell I feel like doing (safely), in the interest of interacting and having fun with my car... So I'm not extolling some instruction booklet of how to drive.

    But just because you have a trick bicycle, doesn't mean you have pump it like a crack-addicted Rhesus Monkey through every gear, everywhere you go... A car's not much different, the basics of gear ratios and power-application and revolutions necessary is actually quite analogistic..

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Well, I never said you had to drive between 6,000 and 7,000 rpm all the time.

    As I said, I like the fact that you can use a 997 in low revs too on a daily basis, in traffic or in city's center.

    But the topic is: "how to improve acceleration time", not how you're supposed to drive every time you get in your car.

    I think some didn't understand that we're talking about one particular driving situation (getting the most of the car) and not about the way to drive a car each time you take it.

    We're not debating "how a porsche should be driven" but "how a 997 should be driven to get the best acceleration time".

    You obviously don't want the best acceleration time each time you drive your car.

    Anyway ...

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    Ian C said:
    Whoa!

    Just to get back to the topic which was asking how to get faster 0-60......
    Trust me, you really don't want to be doing 0-60 in under 5 seconds. If you saw how they achieve those figures you wouldn't want to do it to your own car - it means dumping the clutch at the start, which puts an enourmous strain on clutch, driveshafts and gearbox, flat shifting (ie not using the clutch to change gear) through the gears and so on. It is brutal.
    By all means use your 911 as it's meant to be used, but abuse it like this just to get a 0-60 time? Not worth it IMHO



    Naw, you don't need to "flatshift" to achieve sub-5-second results, not even the factories or the magazines do that... In fact, the magazines shift using a rather standardized technique in the effort to publish times that are "representative" of what the average guy could expect to replicate if he were to attempt such on a closed course, and that are consistant from test-to-test so that their test results are as apples-apples as possible over time... That's straight from the magazine editors..

    My experience, having lived within short distance of an NHRA-sanctioned dragstrip my entire life, and having competed there with many different manual-shift cars, is that meeting or BEATING the factory times and the magazine times is CHILD'S PLAY, and that's clutching every single gear (albeit I'm fast as hell!! )

    But you're right, the initial LAUNCH is a bugger to the driveline, especially in a 911 where there's so much rear tire, and so much weight ballast over the rear tires... You don't want to be doing too many of those 3600 rpm drops unless you're handy with tools...

    Front-engine rear-wheel-drive straight-axle American muscle cars are far more durable for straight-line track beatings...

    Re: Need to improve acceleration time

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Amazon: You of all people please do not patronize me. I own my P-cars you know? The last thing I need is a delivery boy to tell me how to drive a 911.

    As I said... these boards are no longer what they used to be.



    Amazon is cool with me. I enjoy his post a great deal more than your failed attempts at reading questions.
    As for informed Porsche drivers on this board - I have owned 911's since I was 15 (now 43) and have more than 700K miles behind the wheel of a 911 by now (by the way Amazon - all of my 911's were bought used and paid in full with CASH so keep delivering cars). I have rebuilt air cooled flat six motors and done almost all my maintenance on my 996 and 997 (have you ever even changed the spark plugs?)
    I agree that at times this board is a little too obsessed with cosmetics and Renntech.org is more technical but your attacks are just foolish. Even after we point out the original question you refuse to admit that you are way off base with your answer and instead question the caliber of all the other members. Simply not worth arguing with, that is what you are. Go find a forum where you can inject your non sequitur or learn how to read and contribute in a positive manner. Not to dog 996 C4 owners but clearly you bought the C4 thinking it was an SUV.

     
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