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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    reginos:

    I haven't driven the 991 4WD, but many magazines have declared it as the best Carrera version a d not only in the wet or snow. What do people who have had experience of both, believe?

    I don't sincerely want the RWD archetypal 911 to take second place surprise

    The electric steering has changed the drive feel of these cars a lot and lately, in a very positive way. In the past, you could actually feel the difference between a C2 and a C4 but nowadays, the difference is minimal, thanks to the electric steering software programming. I said it before, the Turbo S steering (which, as far as I remember is similar to the C4S steering setup) is 10% more direct than the GT3 steering. Does anyone believe me? I guess not. Smiley Smiley Btw: According to rumors, Porsche didn't "allow" the GT3 a more direct steering setup because they were afraid that unexperienced customers couldn't handle it. 

    I understand  RC you would prefer the Carrera 4 regardless of climatic conditions. Yes?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    andyFE:

    for me the GT3 is the more interesting car, compared to the turbo S but the unavailability of a rear view camera and of parking sensors make it much less practical than the turbo S. also, in austria (with all the crazy taxes here) a well specced GT3 runs around 200K euro and a well equipped turbo S around 235K euro: not such a big difference as in germany. on both cars i can get around 6% discount.

    when will the turbo S facelift be out?

    The problem with you is always that you love to brag about this and that car but you actually never seem to have driven one of these cars, even if you claim differently. There are already many different users on other (mostly German) car forums who claimed they have driven the Turbo S but actually never did (and proving it was quite simple).

    I don't say you lie but even if you did a couple of km in the Turbo S and then the GT3, it wouldn't be enough. I have driven a couple of hundreds of km in the new GT3 and around 6000 km (my car has now 5600 km) in the Turbo S. Yes, I may be biased because I actually went for a Turbo S but if you read my older posts starting with post number 1 (GT3 and Turbo S threads), you will realize that my predictions were quite true and actually nothing has changed.

    As to getting a GT3 RS: I would get one in a heartbeat if I could afford several fun cars at once. If I could afford a GT3 RS as well (besides my Turbo S), this would mean that I have enough money to stop working and enough money to enjoy life. Yes, then a GT3 RS would make sense because I would love to spend some quality time on the track with some friends, something I cannot afford doing now. Not necessarily because of time (yes, time is money) but because track racing takes a heavy toll on tires and brake pads and because such events, I don't go to the amateur events Smiley, usually cost a lot of money, especially when first class race car drivers are involved. Nothing is for free in life. These events also usually require 2-4 days at a row and since my wife isn't really into this stuff, I would have to leave her alone with the kids, which is impossible since she has a real life job and needs to take care of her own business.

    Bottom line is: The Turbo S is for me just perfect. Like Whoopsie said, people have different preferences when driving and at my age (48), you have seen this, done that and with experience comes wisdom (and caution). The only thing I would like to see from Porsche would have been some sort of Turbo RS. A Turbo S with 100 kg less weight and 600 hp Everything else, incl. AWD and AWS, should still be there. Unfortunately Porsche will rather offer a GT2 RS, which will be a great car but no rear seats, not much comfort and forget about driving it in snow. I think Porsche is missing an opportunity here because I know there is demand for such a car but maybe not high enough to make it happen.

    As to the emotional stuff: The exhaust sound of the Turbo S is almost perfect in my opinion. I just wish the exhaust would be a little bit raunchier when accelerating with less than 50% throttle. Otherwise, I have no complaints. Oh wait, I wish there would be no speed traps along my favorite routes. Smiley

    RC,

    i am above bragging age. but you are certainly correct when you say that i did not drive the turbo S at its limit. the same applies to the GT3. i had about 4hours in the turbo S, split in two appointments. 30% was city driving, 30% highway and the rest B-roads. i had less time in the GT3.

    my judgement is based on what the cars do at 4-6/10th of their limit, this (and below) is where i spend most of my driving time (i live in very speed restricted countries). 

    so this is where i compare the emotional experience, particularly with supercars i have driven and the one i own.

    nothing wrong there, right?

    you like the turbo S sound, i do prefer the  F458.....:::)))) both legit, no? 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The only thing I would like to see from Porsche would have been some sort of Turbo RS. A Turbo S with 100 kg less weight and 600 hp Everything else, incl. AWD and AWS, should still be there. Unfortunately Porsche will rather offer a GT2 RS, which will be a great car but no rear seats, not much comfort and forget about driving it in snow. I think Porsche is missing an opportunity here because I know there is demand for such a car but maybe not high enough to make it happen.

    Event it is off-topic, I think this car is missing in Porsche productline. Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:
    RC:
    reginos:

    I haven't driven the 991 4WD, but many magazines have declared it as the best Carrera version a d not only in the wet or snow. What do people who have had experience of both, believe?

    I don't sincerely want the RWD archetypal 911 to take second place surprise

    The electric steering has changed the drive feel of these cars a lot and lately, in a very positive way. In the past, you could actually feel the difference between a C2 and a C4 but nowadays, the difference is minimal, thanks to the electric steering software programming. I said it before, the Turbo S steering (which, as far as I remember is similar to the C4S steering setup) is 10% more direct than the GT3 steering. Does anyone believe me? I guess not. Smiley Smiley Btw: According to rumors, Porsche didn't "allow" the GT3 a more direct steering setup because they were afraid that unexperienced customers couldn't handle it. 

    I understand  RC you would prefer the Carrera 4 regardless of climatic conditions. Yes?

    Not really and not now. Maybe if Porsche ever decides to put AWS in the C4 models and/or to use the new gen AWD/PTM from the Turbo/S. The Carrera/S has plenty of traction, especially the 991 chassis setup is excellent. 

    If you are looking for the ultimate traction though, if you enjoy a nice visual bonus at night (that middle light band in the rear looks very nice at night) and if the additional cost doesn't put you off, the C4 wouldn't be a mistake at all. Just don't forget the typical must have stuff...Sport Chrono, PDK and Sport Exhaust. Unlike in the past (997 or especially 996, 993 and 964), going for the C4 instead of the C2 doesn't really mean you have to make any compromises regarding driving dynamics or drive feel.

    Stupid question though: Why not go for a GT3 instead if you don't need the rear seats. Many people get a C2 which usually is close to GT3 cost but don't even need the rear seats. Ride comfort? It is overrated, especially on a fun car. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:
    RC:
    reginos:

    I haven't driven the 991 4WD, but many magazines have declared it as the best Carrera version a d not only in the wet or snow. What do people who have had experience of both, believe?

    I don't sincerely want the RWD archetypal 911 to take second place surprise

    The electric steering has changed the drive feel of these cars a lot and lately, in a very positive way. In the past, you could actually feel the difference between a C2 and a C4 but nowadays, the difference is minimal, thanks to the electric steering software programming. I said it before, the Turbo S steering (which, as far as I remember is similar to the C4S steering setup) is 10% more direct than the GT3 steering. Does anyone believe me? I guess not. Smiley Smiley Btw: According to rumors, Porsche didn't "allow" the GT3 a more direct steering setup because they were afraid that unexperienced customers couldn't handle it. 

    I understand  RC you would prefer the Carrera 4 regardless of climatic conditions. Yes?

    Without going too far off-topic, i can only say: drive and compare a C2S and a C4S.... I know this may sound weird and a lot of people don't believe me, but the C4S feels more "alive". I'm not sure, but I think Porsche has tweaked the chassis of the C4S differently compared to the C2S and is, because of that, more tailhappy than a 2wd 991. (Very controlable though)

    This, together with the slightly better steering feel makes the C4S nicer to drive, regardless what weather conditions you're driving in.

     


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
    2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SuzyF:
    reginos:
    RC:
    reginos:

    I haven't driven the 991 4WD, but many magazines have declared it as the best Carrera version a d not only in the wet or snow. What do people who have had experience of both, believe?

    I don't sincerely want the RWD archetypal 911 to take second place surprise

    The electric steering has changed the drive feel of these cars a lot and lately, in a very positive way. In the past, you could actually feel the difference between a C2 and a C4 but nowadays, the difference is minimal, thanks to the electric steering software programming. I said it before, the Turbo S steering (which, as far as I remember is similar to the C4S steering setup) is 10% more direct than the GT3 steering. Does anyone believe me? I guess not. Smiley Smiley Btw: According to rumors, Porsche didn't "allow" the GT3 a more direct steering setup because they were afraid that unexperienced customers couldn't handle it. 

    I understand  RC you would prefer the Carrera 4 regardless of climatic conditions. Yes?

    Without going too far off-topic, i can only say: drive and compare a C2S and a C4S.... I know this may sound weird and a lot of people don't believe me, but the C4S feels more "alive". I'm not sure, but I think Porsche has tweaked the chassis of the C4S differently compared to the C2S and is, because of that, more tailhappy than a 2wd 991. (Very controlable though)

    This, together with the slightly better steering feel makes the C4S nicer to drive, regardless what weather conditions you're driving in.

    Thank you for your recommendation Smiley I guess I'll have to try both but there is more of a case in favour of the 4WD on the 991than previously.

    However, I was thinking that the extra cost of AWD (some 7.000EUR) , could be used to cover the optional X51, which is a feature I've always wanted to have.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I don't feel much difference between the C2S and C4S. Maybe one car Suzy tested was equipped with the 20 mm chassis or PDCC or whatever. X51 is nice but not really worth the money if you don't drive on the Autobahn. For speeds under 200 kph, X51 is worthless in my opinion. The 991 engine also already revs nicely, so you won't notice much more difference vs. X51 in the upper rev range.

    Btw: You are aware that the facelift is rumored for spring/summer 2015? 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    I don't feel much difference between the C2S and C4S. Maybe one car Suzy tested was equipped with the 20 mm chassis or PDCC or whatever. X51 is nice but not really worth the money if you don't drive on the Autobahn. For speeds under 200 kph, X51 is worthless in my opinion. The 991 engine also already revs nicely, so you won't notice much more difference vs. X51 in the upper rev range.

    Btw: You are aware that the facelift is rumored for spring/summer 2015? 

    I had once ordered X51 and it was the wrongest decision I have ever made. I mean the value I have got for the paid price was bad. The car didn´t feel much more powerful. Would never do again.


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    ALDO:
    RC:

    I don't feel much difference between the C2S and C4S. Maybe one car Suzy tested was equipped with the 20 mm chassis or PDCC or whatever. X51 is nice but not really worth the money if you don't drive on the Autobahn. For speeds under 200 kph, X51 is worthless in my opinion. The 991 engine also already revs nicely, so you won't notice much more difference vs. X51 in the upper rev range.

    Btw: You are aware that the facelift is rumored for spring/summer 2015? 

    I had once ordered X51 and it was the wrongest decision I have ever made. I mean the value I have got for the paid price was bad. The car didn´t feel much more powerful. Would never do again.

    X51 in the 991 is quite nice and in the upper speed range (180 kph and over), it really is a bonus. You won't really "feel" it though right way, just in comparison. From 0-200 kph, the performance difference is not even one second flat, only up to 300 kph, the performance gain is a couple of seconds. So for speed limited countries, it really doesn't make sense in my opinion. I had X51 in my former 996 Carrera 4 and I liked it but like you said, the benefit was limited.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Taken from Rennlist as I couldn't find it here:
     
    SuperDarius
    Hallo guys
     
    I'm the one who post some info on RennTeam times ago about the RS.
    I've a deposit down at my dealer in Italy,and i hope to have the car for June/July of ths year.
     
    The base price in Italy,confirmed ALSO from my delaer, will be NOT over 180K Euros tax enclosed(22%VAT)
     
    And here the rumor i posted times ago,confirmed from two different sources
     
    4.0L
    500HP
    PDK
    NO RWS (due racing homologation)
    Magnesium roof
    20" wheels in front, 21" rear
    Turbo body
    Turbo air intakes
    other lighter parts
     
    A tyres tester who tried the car a months ago,tell me PDK seems like the standard GT3 one,but the gears seems longer and the car faster,he don't know if is due engine displacement,the 21" on the rear,or other due is all secret,he must drive the car and stop...but he tell sure is faster then the GT3.
     
    Hope what i write is all true...at least is what some usually good sources tell me.
    --------------------------
     
    ...Now all we need is Boxster Coupe GTS to leak the first pictures of the new RS before the launch in 8 weeks time. 

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    hemm...

    this is the rumor i posted here a few months ago...indecision


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Thanks Super Darius :)

    Any rumour on the weight of the new RS ?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    no,my dealer tell me it will use some lighter parts...but nothing more.

     

    but the guy that tested it before Christmas,tell that is a car to buy!angryindecision

     


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Super Darius:

    but the guy that tested it before Christmas,tell that is a car to buy!angryindecision

     

    Did he tell you why it is a car to buy ? 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    becouse it seems great to drive and "special" respect the latest series of the GT3 RS

     

    yes


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Super Darius:

    becouse it seems great to drive and "special" respect the latest series of the GT3 RS

     

    yes

    Smiley Just keep that street driving "warning" in mind but everything else will be highly enjoyable. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    Super Darius:

    becouse it seems great to drive and "special" respect the latest series of the GT3 RS

     

    yes

    Smiley Just keep that street driving "warning" in mind 

    Smiley


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:

    Thank you for your recommendation Smiley I guess I'll have to try both but there is more of a case in favour of the 4WD on the 991than previously.

    However, I was thinking that the extra cost of AWD (some 7.000EUR) , could be used to cover the optional X51, which is a feature I've always wanted to have.

    Maybe this helps (C2S vs C4S comparison). As you can tell, the C4S is usually as fast as the C2S but has some advantages in the wet and in snow.

    c4s.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Very useful comparison RC, thanks for that! I always wondered about C2 vs C4.

    It is very surprising though:
    For lap times, the C2s is faster or equally fast as the C4s
    For cornering speed, in the dry the C4s is almost everywhere faster than the C2s. In the wet it is reversed, and on snow the C4 is in the advantage in every corner.

    Why these suprising outcomes? Especially the fact that the C4 wins in cornering speed in the dry surprises me, and that it is reversed in the wet...
    Does that have to do with the relation corners vs straight line performance of this particular track or so?

     


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    reginos:

    Thank you for your recommendation Smiley I guess I'll have to try both but there is more of a case in favour of the 4WD on the 991than previously.

    However, I was thinking that the extra cost of AWD (some 7.000EUR) , could be used to cover the optional X51, which is a feature I've always wanted to have.

    Maybe this helps (C2S vs C4S comparison). As you can tell, the C4S is usually as fast as the C2S but has some advantages in the wet and in snow.

    c4s.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Thank you!

    I am sure that a normal driver will be faster in the 4 especially in the wet. I presume the test involved a professional driver.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Super Darius:

    becouse it seems great to drive and "special" respect the latest series of the GT3 RS

     

    yes

    Thanks Darius... This gives some hope :)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Joost:

    Very useful comparison RC, thanks for that! I always wondered about C2 vs C4.

    It is very surprising though:
    For lap times, the C2s is faster or equally fast as the C4s
    For cornering speed, in the dry the C4s is almost everywhere faster than the C2s. In the wet it is reversed, and on snow the C4 is in the advantage in every corner.

    The C4S is heavier, so it is actually quite a performer vs. the C2S.

    Why these suprising outcomes? Especially the fact that the C4 wins in cornering speed in the dry surprises me, and that it is reversed in the wet...
    Does that have to do with the relation corners vs straight line performance of this particular track or so?

     

    I don't have a clue, I also wouldn't take these numbers too seriously because they are very close to each other (with the exception of the wet/snow numbers).

    Yes, the C4S would be probably easier to drive at the limit than the C2S but of course the AWD also could give not so skilled drivers a false feel of safety, which could be worse than actually a "nervous" rear (C2S).

    If cost doesn't matter too much, I would probably go for the C4S though.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    boytronic:
     
    A tyres tester who tried the car a months ago,tell me PDK seems like the standard GT3 one,but the gears seems longer and the car faster,he don't know if is due engine displacement,the 21" on the rear,or other due is all secret,he must drive the car and stop...but he tell sure is faster then the GT3.

    Weird that the gears would be longer (unless the redline is lower).  Doesn't make sense...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Joost:

    It is very surprising though:
    For lap times, the C2s is faster or equally fast as the C4s
    For cornering speed, in the dry the C4s is almost everywhere faster than the C2s. In the wet it is reversed, and on snow the C4 is in the advantage in every corner.

    Why these suprising outcomes? Especially the fact that the C4 wins in cornering speed in the dry surprises me, and that it is reversed in the wet...
    Does that have to do with the relation corners vs straight line performance of this particular track or so?

    The comparison test is available online at SportAuto. Reason for the wet performance of the C4S? Wet and snow laptimes were measured on winter tires and the AWD version exhibited more understeer than the RWD model in the wet.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Ferdie:
    Joost:

    It is very surprising though:
    For lap times, the C2s is faster or equally fast as the C4s
    For cornering speed, in the dry the C4s is almost everywhere faster than the C2s. In the wet it is reversed, and on snow the C4 is in the advantage in every corner.

    Why these suprising outcomes? Especially the fact that the C4 wins in cornering speed in the dry surprises me, and that it is reversed in the wet...
    Does that have to do with the relation corners vs straight line performance of this particular track or so?

    The comparison test is available online at SportAuto. Reason for the wet performance of the C4S? Wet and snow laptimes were measured on winter tires and the AWD version exhibited more understeer than the RWD model in the wet.

    Not surprising since the C4S runs a slightly wider section (305 vs. 295) tire on the rear.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    CGX car nut:
    Ferdie:
    Joost:

    It is very surprising though:
    For lap times, the C2s is faster or equally fast as the C4s
    For cornering speed, in the dry the C4s is almost everywhere faster than the C2s. In the wet it is reversed, and on snow the C4 is in the advantage in every corner.

    Why these suprising outcomes? Especially the fact that the C4 wins in cornering speed in the dry surprises me, and that it is reversed in the wet...
    Does that have to do with the relation corners vs straight line performance of this particular track or so?

    The comparison test is available online at SportAuto. Reason for the wet performance of the C4S? Wet and snow laptimes were measured on winter tires and the AWD version exhibited more understeer than the RWD model in the wet.

    Not surprising since the C4S runs a slightly wider section (305 vs. 295) tire on the rear.  

    The fact that the front tyres of a 4WD car are expected to contribute towards the cars traction as well as countering lateral g forces would also increase tendency to understeer. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    fritz:
    CGX car nut:
    Ferdie:
    Joost:

    It is very surprising though:
    For lap times, the C2s is faster or equally fast as the C4s
    For cornering speed, in the dry the C4s is almost everywhere faster than the C2s. In the wet it is reversed, and on snow the C4 is in the advantage in every corner.

    Why these suprising outcomes? Especially the fact that the C4 wins in cornering speed in the dry surprises me, and that it is reversed in the wet...
    Does that have to do with the relation corners vs straight line performance of this particular track or so?

    The comparison test is available online at SportAuto. Reason for the wet performance of the C4S? Wet and snow laptimes were measured on winter tires and the AWD version exhibited more understeer than the RWD model in the wet.

    Not surprising since the C4S runs a slightly wider section (305 vs. 295) tire on the rear.  

    The fact that the front tyres of a 4WD car are expected to contribute towards the cars traction as well as countering lateral g forces would also increase tendency to understeer. 

    That does play a role; however, the difference in slip angles with a wider, and also taller rear tire, is also a contributory factor.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    kissThe trickiness of the new Gt3 is already in evidence in LA - my body man has already fixed Elon Musk's newly stuffed gt3.  Still requires sone driving skills it seems


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Grant:
    boytronic:
     
    A tyres tester who tried the car a months ago,tell me PDK seems like the standard GT3 one,but the gears seems longer and the car faster,he don't know if is due engine displacement,the 21" on the rear,or other due is all secret,he must drive the car and stop...but he tell sure is faster then the GT3.

    Weird that the gears would be longer (unless the redline is lower).  Doesn't make sense...

    Yes I think the gears were shorter on the 7.2RS?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    CGX car nut:
    fritz:
    CGX car nut:
    Ferdie:
    Joost:

    It is very surprising though:
    For lap times, the C2s is faster or equally fast as the C4s
    For cornering speed, in the dry the C4s is almost everywhere faster than the C2s. In the wet it is reversed, and on snow the C4 is in the advantage in every corner.

    Why these suprising outcomes? Especially the fact that the C4 wins in cornering speed in the dry surprises me, and that it is reversed in the wet...
    Does that have to do with the relation corners vs straight line performance of this particular track or so?

    The comparison test is available online at SportAuto. Reason for the wet performance of the C4S? Wet and snow laptimes were measured on winter tires and the AWD version exhibited more understeer than the RWD model in the wet.

    Not surprising since the C4S runs a slightly wider section (305 vs. 295) tire on the rear.  

    The fact that the front tyres of a 4WD car are expected to contribute towards the cars traction as well as countering lateral g forces would also increase tendency to understeer. 

    That does play a role; however, the difference in slip angles with a wider, and also taller rear tire, is also a contributory factor.

    Once again, the wet and snow performance was measured on winter tires which, according to the article, feature 295 mm wide tires on both cars. Only the summer tires are of different width, yet the AWD version does not exhibit that understeer in dry conditions (with summer tires) or on snow (with winter tires).


     
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