Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Need immediate pricing advice

    Here is my situation. I ordered a car and got very little off MSRP - courtesy discount (whatever the F that means.) As everyone knows, the economy and financial market is in serious turmoil. My financial position has definitely changed in the past 2 weeks alone. I want to get you guys' opinion on if and how I can relay this back to the dealer to negotiate a further (real) discount. I am not trying to use this economic situation to my advantage, rather I really need to save some money on this purchase. Incidentally, I never signed a sales contract or gave a deposit.

    Any and all advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    try different dealers around the country....not everyones economic situation is bleak, some are well positioned in cash to take advantage of the current situation....when/if you find the deal you want sign/deposit up as that deal may be gone tomorrow..imo

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Here's what you do. You get your exact build and put it in an e-mail. You call the 6 closest dealers or so. (Up to you how many dealers you want to contact.) You say you're ready to buy and you want to e-mail your spec. And you tell them that you're shopping and lowest price wins, pure and simple. It works and it's easy.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Most Porsche dealers will go roughly 6-7% off (sometimes more, but only when they've got a car on the lot they're desperate to move), which is basically cutting their margin between invoice and retail in half. It's a fair deal... If your dealer is only tossing you a couple grand, you can do better, far better....

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Usually you have no legal obligation to take the car. Your deposit should be fully refundable. People back out of deals all the time.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Ok guys, I guess I wasn't clear. Let me reiterate:
    1. I have ordered the car already from a dealer
    2. It is NOT sitting on the lot and will be shipped soon
    3. I did NOT give a deposit

    Given these facts, how can I best communicate to the dealer that the miniscule discount I was given upon order is not sufficient given the state of the financial markets. I know I could get a lot more by shopping around, even going to locations in another state. I want to avoid all this AND take delivery of the car I ordered.

    My concern is that the dealer in Southern CA says, don't take the care, I will sell it that same day at full MSRP. Then I just wasted 3 months of waiting.

    Thoughts?

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    First off, I know your car is not sitting on the lot, I was just making the point that they sometimes discount DEEPLY on cars that, for whatever reasons (undesirable colors or combo of options) doesn't want to move...

    Secondly, I hate to do this to you, but man.... You're 3 months in, and NOW you're doing your research on appropriate pricing? Talk about getting the cart ahead of the horse!

    The economy really doesn't enter into this that much. Fact is, the "deal" you agreed to 3 months ago stunk regardless of economy. I got $5-grand-off my special-order Carrera S in November of 2004, when the cars were in HOT demand, and the economy was smoking hot...

    I feel that going in and trying to make an economic case for them to re-visit their deal is going to fall on deaf ears...

    How you should approach this, is to go in and sit down with your sales-rep, and say, "listen, I ordered this car in good-faith... However, since ordering it I've learned that the discount and overall deal I'm getting falls well-short of the norm that other Porsche owners I've communicated with have transacted... Furthermore, the recent economic downturn has really put a squeeze on this purchase for me, making this issue all the more critical... Bottom-line, I want to purchase this car, the car I ordered, from you. But we need to come to a new agreement on the price. I don't want to, but I've researched a few other dealers not too far away that I can start over with. But you're my local dealer, and I don't feel necessarily comfortable leaving you "hanging" with the car either. Whatever you could do to accommodate would surely go toward my being a loyal and repeat customer..."

    And then tell 'em you feel 6%-off MSRP is a fair price, affording them a reasonable profit and allowing you to feel comfortable about the purchase..

    After that, it's a game of poker, it's a "stare-off"... You've simply got to stick to your guns, and not be wishy-washy or mealy-mouthed about it. Strictly-business...

    Whatever comes after that, well, it's your call...

    But you're supposed to have a handle on the margins, and the market, BEFORE you sit down and negotiate a deal and order the car!

    If they are a good dealer, they'll find a agreeable middle-ground with you. If they are [Email]pri@%s[/Email], they'll say "don't take the car then"..., in which case you may wish to patronize a better more appreciative dealer anyhow....

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    69 - I like your approach and I did have a handle on all the margins and the prices well before I ordered. The problem back then was people were just starting to order and more importantly I spoke to around 6 South CA dealers and they all said the same thing. Now, I did not push the issue or drive to each one stating how serious I was, but the point is that CA dealers would not budge. I also spoke to the sales manager at each place.

    I don't have a good feeling about the outcome mostly because they gave me their song and dance 10 times: less allocation, less profit, etc. And, I think I'll throw up if I have to hear it again. Bottom line, the options on my car are very particular and 99% of buyers would not want the options or the color. That along with that I never gave a deposit or signed anything, I think helps my case.

    Wish me luck and thanks again.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    from the info you provided i wouldnt assume you have ordered the car with nothing signed/no deposit...no contract either way.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Yes, best of luck!!! And yes, California.... Enough said... I feel your pain

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    How can one spec/order a car without putting a deposit down , if so and your not happy then just pull the plug on the order..

    Good Luck....

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    My take is, if you optioned the car in a "unique" manner, the dealer won't want to be stuck sitting on it either. It ought to be in his best interest to make sure deal goes down. Otherwise, he'll be sitting on your car. In this economy, dealers are hurting for floor plan dollars, and can ill afford to carry too many $100k vehicles, whether they be Porsche, VW, GM etc. Porsche dealer is likely owned by a multi-dealership group. Non-performing brands are putting the hurt on even the most formidable dealers. I'd tell them what you are wiling to pay and see what happens. Being that they have none of your money, I see the ball in your court.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Goose, I agree and somehow want to convey this without sounding like a threat. They don't have my money. I did not sign anything. The options are very bare and would not appeal to most of the Californians who NEED bluetooth, nav, heated seats, ipod, etc. Plus the color is way off from the typical gt silver, black, white, meteor, etc. I know the manager is going to be so pissed at me. He already tells me the 1k I got off is unheard of with a new model Porsche.

    The questions becomes do I really want to go through this entire process all over again, knowing my car is coming in less than 1 week and will be one of the first 09s in the state that is ordered.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    That is up to you - I tried all the same strategies as bossnine used and got $500 here in Minnesota, and was told if I wasn't ordering the car - they would have more room to work with me, if I wanted one off the lot they could do more...

    Good Luck! I don't think explaining your limits is a threat either.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Quote:
    sahoon said:
    My financial position has definitely changed in the past 2 weeks alone.



    Yet you are STILL buying a Porsche...?

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Great advice 69bossnine

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    When I originally sat down to negotiate my special-order 997S, I simply told them "here's what I want to order, and I want $5K off MSRP... Should you accept my proposal, I'll scratch a deposit check right now and place the order. Should you pass, I'll shop my proposal around the Southeast. Driving even 1,000 miles round-trip on a large purchase such as this is nothing to me, I like driving..."

    I then went on to say, "Who knows, I may get shot-down everywhere else I try with my $5K-off deal, and you may see me walk in here a month from now with my tail between my legs and begging for mercy... But who knows..."

    My sales guy got up, walked over and had a 1-minute conversation with his manager, walked back with his hand extended and said "done", and we shook hands, I gave him a check for $5K as deposit, and we submitted my spec to Porsche.

    It's a whole lot easier playing the game of "chicken" from day-one. I understand where sahoon is coming from, not wanting to seem as though he's mugging them, just having honest second-thoughts on his original deal. It's all in the way you phrase and present your argument, as to whether they feel you're stand-up and just being honest, or whether you're just twisting their arm for the sake of twisting it..

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    I did the same 69bossnine. As a UK customer, I did my homework and decided that buying my 997S in Germany was the best choice financially. I was upfront about wanting a certain level of discount. Some dealers said 'thanks but no thanks' while others were more than happy to welcome me. My German dealer was perfectly happy to deal with me. I was straightforward with him, didn't jerk him around, I paid up promptly and we both were happy. No doubt, next time I want to buy again, he'll be happy to deal with me again.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    I did the same 69bossnine. As a UK customer, I did my homework and decided that buying my 997S in Germany was the best choice financially. I was upfront about wanting a certain level of discount. Some dealers said 'thanks but no thanks' while others were more than happy to welcome me. My German dealer was perfectly happy to deal with me. I was straightforward with him, didn't jerk him around, I paid up promptly and we both were happy. No doubt, next time I want to buy again, he'll be happy to deal with me again.



    Can i ask please does your car count as a UK car or is it a import? thanks

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    It's a C16 RHD UK spec car just like any other car bought from a UK dealer. PAG makes it to the same spec as the ones they make for supply via PCGB and a UK dealer. Here's a full explanation of how I bought my UK spec car from a German dealer:

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...&PHPSESSID=

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    UK car insurers do categorise my car as a 'personal import' but it has made no difference to the premium I am paying.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Buddy,

    I still have difficulties to see the whole picture, especially reason and process of ordering the car in the first place. Sure you don't retain some facts? I have never had the "joy" of ordering a brand-new car without my signature, let alone such an expensive one. I always expected US dealers to demand a deposit on exclusive or unique orders since they are harder to forward.

    Do you intend to acquire the car by any means or would you, due to other reasons, consider a order cancellation as well?

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    How did you get on to your German dealer in the first place?

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    I found out their details from www.porsche.de and I was able to contact them all by email. The German Porsche website had an online 'contact us' function. I just cut and pasted the same email to all of them to see which ones were interested. Easy It's all explained in my own thread on How I Bought My New Car in Germany - I don't want to hijack this thread

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Quote:
    throt said:
    How can one spec/order a car without putting a deposit down , if so and your not happy then just pull the plug on the order..

    Good Luck....



    Good luck indeed, but I must say I find it hard to believe a dealer would place your order without a deposit especially if the spec' is unpopular.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    I just cut and pasted the same email to all of them to see which ones were interested. Easy



    That's what I was curious about. Thanks...

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    I agree with the mentality of the deposit, but I assure you I did not leave one. I'm not sure if this is the dealer's practice with all cars, or they forgot with me, etc. I had a talk with the manager and it went as I expected: not good. He was mildly offended that I would consider renegotiating this late in the game and wondered what I would do if the dealer did the same. I completely agree with him on that note. I was very sincere that a discount would help with this purchase and he was sincere in his response that if I still want the car, I can have it otherwise let him know so he can sell it to someone else.

    I didn't bother to remind him how difficult it would be to sell my specific car due to the limited options; I thought that would be a real [beep] move on my part.

    So, I accepted the original deal and moved on. Did I fail? In some ways, yes. I still believe that most if not all south CA dealers do not budge on prices because if I don't buy it, some jackass with a trust fund will be right behind me with a wad of dough asking why when he pops the hood, the engine isn't there.

    Thanks everyone. Lesson learned. Next time if a discount is really that important, I have to do a lot more judicious legwork

    Sidenote: I do want to point out that my allocation was one of the first in southern CA and that most other dealers, especially out of state, were a couple months behind. In fact, I've seen people order a car with a great discount then there are mysterious 'delays' when someone else walks in and pays more. Point is, yes I did pay more than others and yes I will get my car before others. Was it worth it? To me, yes.

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Quote:
    sahoon said:
    Point is, yes I did pay more than others and yes I will get my car before others. Was it worth it? To me, yes.



    No offence intended but the phrase 'ex post facto rationalisation' comes to mind. If you were sitting pretty with a 6% discount in your pocket, I don't think you'd be saying what you're saying now. Hey, don't worry - it's okay. You're not the first guy to regret how you played it and then trying to find a way to reconcile yourself to how it all turned out. We all screw up sometimes. At the end of day, you're buying an amazing car when others are losing their jobs and their homes. That's the silver lining to this tiny cloud My advice, don't beat yourself up for nothing. Buying a Porsche is a special joy - just enjoy every moment. Take lots of pics and share your happiness here and we'll all be happy for you

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    Honestly I wouldn't put too much thought into that subject at all by now. If you can still solve the funding, get it - if not, one more reason to step out of that acquisition. You got yourself one fine automobile, you haven't invested in a false Picasso, a condemned building or... have married a ladyboy!

    Re: Need immediate pricing advice

    easy rider-

    Thanks for the kind note. I agree it's easy to justify something that is already done, but let me be clear. I could very easily back out of this deal as there is no deposit or contract. Furthermore, I could order another one from another dealer and wait 2-3 months (if all works well and the dealer does not screw me if another guy comes in with more money; trust me it happens) along with the entire process all over again. That being said, I chose to stay with an earlier car (one of the first in CA) and with a dealer I have a relationship with while forgoing a better discount. I made a choice and I think it is the right one, even if it costs me more financially.

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    585746 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/30/20 9:03 AM
    rhino
     
     
     
     
     
    358915 1279
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/10/21 2:32 PM
    Joost
    86857 1085
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 5/12/21 3:30 PM
    WhoopsyM
    45313 344
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    35535 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    33352 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/11/21 3:34 PM
    watt
    16803 344
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    4561 29
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 7/27/20 2:13 AM
    DJM48
    565613 5257
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
    406535 3586
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/25/21 4:04 PM
    Topspeed
    358549 3916
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 4/29/21 7:24 AM
    GnilM
    355632 3494
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    317147 3252
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    310195 2646
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/28/21 8:05 PM
    Topspeed
    218560 1542
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    193047 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    161307 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    138316 792
    Porsche 992 GT3 5/14/21 3:41 PM
    throt
    121507 2343
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    106562 1225
    McLaren F1 2/25/21 11:33 AM
    RCA
    77323 207
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 4/29/21 3:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    71262 1163
    AMG AMG GT R 11/19/20 11:47 PM
    Topspeed
    65114 819
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/20/21 3:21 PM
    CGX car nut
    64167 683
    Porsche 991 Speedster 9/3/20 4:29 PM
    Topspeed
    57428 878
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    43538 596
    Others Bugatti Chiron 4/12/21 3:42 PM
    RCA
    36733 476
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    34180 615
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 5/14/21 5:33 PM
    JimFlat6
    31000 476
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 3/21/21 5:01 PM
    Topspeed
    28843 385
    275 items found, displaying 1 to 30.