Crown

Board: Porsche - Taycan Language: English Region: Worldwide Sticky: yes Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    ALDO:
    Whoopsy:
    ALDO:

    Whoopsy,

    you are always talking about the 800V system as so much superior. But for my understanding it has not a huge impact on loading time. The cells have the same voltage if you use 400 or 800V. The system around the battery cells are lighter and due to less current the heating is easier to manage.

    The bottleneck is upstream of the individual cells. The cells are the end of the road for the charging process. Think tree branches. Cells are arranged in series and in parallel and then packaged into modules which in turn forms the whole battery pack. On top of the whole package is the battery controller which direct the incoming power to individual modules, which also have their own cell maintainer to distribute the incoming power to the cells. 

    Benefits of 800V system is less amperage for the same power level. Amperage is what create heat in the system. Higher voltage system is more efficient in transmitting power as there is less heat loss.

    Say to pump 250kW into the cells, 800V system only uses 312A, while on a 400V system it's 624A. That kind of amperage creates lots of heat and hence why Teslas had to throttle the current aka power very quickly to protect the modules and while the 800V system can keep pumping the same amount of power into the modules for a long time. It's how the Taycan and e-Tron GT can maintain crazy fast sustained charging speed up to very high SoC. Having a bigger top buffer also helps with he charging speed as battery cells naturally takes less charge nearing the full mark.

    Batteries needed to be warm in order to accept the highest possible power, but the charging process also creates heat which needs to be dealt with so they need to stay within a temperature window. in certain situation the benefits is small, like when the ambient temperature is cooler, the battery and cabling will take longer to reach critical temp, which will happen faster in a 400V as it generates more heat than the 800V system.  But 800V system aren't immune to thermal throttling, Kyle had showed via his videos on the throttling in both the Audi and the Taycan before. 

     

    Thnx for the detailed answer. 

    Could an external liquid cooling system help to cool down the whole system while charging.

     

    As of right now all the high powered chargers, be it 350kW, 300kW or Tesla's 250kW Superchargers, already employed liquid cooled cables that goes from the charger to the car. 

    And all modern EVs already have active thermal management systems. They pre condition the battery before charging and also actively cool them while charging. Also the current going in are adjusted based on thermal condition. 

    If you mean by exchanging cooling fluids in the charging process, then it's not really that practical. It will just be one more connection point that waiting to fail. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    In Austin the wife and I experienced our first wait at a supercharger. It was only about 20 minutes waiting for a charger but we absolutely rocked the place using the cars built in karaoke system the entire time. We had an absolute blast. Lucky for your ears your were not there.  
    In short time there will be lots of new tech trying to charge faster. The new 4680 battery will address many of the known shortcomings a bit.  Personally I am more interested in battery density and cost than ultra high charge speeds. I charge 99% at level 2 at home so speed is not as important at cost and weight. I would not mind 500 miles in range and no increase in charge speed at level 3. 
    Talk to me about fast level 2 home charging (where most charging will take place) and bi directional charging and we are in business.  Imagine my car running a home for a week when the power is down. 

     

    I don't eat Indian food. People should stop cooking Indian from now on then? 

    You and I are just one single data point out of millions. What you don't have use for is actually useful for million others. What I don't like to eat is regular food for billions of people. 

    A new battery can't break physics. There is a limit to how much power you can pump into battery via 400V system until it's not a good idea. As of right now even the EV leader Tesla has hit the wall already on it's 400V charging. Those 250kW advertised speed is just a peak that they can only sustained for a tiny moment, VAG products can do 250kW SUSTAINED from 0 to basically 40-50%.

     

    I was not disagreeing and yes the peak charging speed is momentarily available at best.  I was just sharing a fun story about the wait and that an old guys can still have fun.  
    But I disagree that we will see no more advancement in batteries or similar tech - the physics change as materials change.  I would not bet against that with everyone and every $ in hot pursuit of this tech breakthrough.  In just five short years I predict a 300 mile charge of around 10 minutes at superchargers and  L2 speeds of 100 miles per hour with a 25% weight reduction in battery mass.  
    And then there will be advances in electric propulsion in general.  There is a lot of low hanging fruit and we have never been more prepared in terms of tech and resources to make advances. 

     

    The advancement is already here, going from 400V to 800V and then beyond. AS for the battery itself, we are still using lithium, and lithium's physical property doesn't change.

    Elon has been on the 400V system for a decade, all the low hanging fruits are gone. Now physics takes over, he needs to move onto higher voltage, either catch up to others on 800V or he can try to leapfrog and go higher. Heck, just imagine your Model 3 suddenly became a 800V car, gaining the faster charging speed, your 'miles per minute charged' just improved by 20% overnight.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Whoopsy:

    A really long video, but Kyle basically drove from Nurburgring all the way to Sweden across Denmark at the Norway border in a Taycan turbo Cross Turismo. Utilizing all the fast chargers along the way. Basically flexing the 800V system's muscle with 200+kW, 270kW max charing. The way the Taycan goes from 4%, 10% to 50% at those chargers means pumping in 250+kW all the way before it tapers to 220kW, 230kW after 50%. Nothing on the road right now can touch those charging speed. 

    Watched that video this evening. Simply WOW! What a car. Very impressive! Nice filming by Kyle, with Melissa keeping her enthusiasm within limits Smiley

    Anyway, what an EV engineering achievement by Porsche.  Still, changing that cog in the GT4 gearbox was a tougher job 


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Maybe Taycan Turbo S and Lucid along with Plaid in the next iteration of this video?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7YqdGt19tw&t=217s


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    NelsonF:

    Maybe Taycan Turbo S and Lucid along with Plaid in the next iteration of this video?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7YqdGt19tw&t=217s

    Taycan Turbo S stands no chance vs the Plaid. Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    RC:
    NelsonF:

    Maybe Taycan Turbo S and Lucid along with Plaid in the next iteration of this video?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7YqdGt19tw&t=217s

    Taycan Turbo S stands no chance vs the Plaid. Smiley

     

    Hardly surprising with 3x e-motors vs 2x in a straight-line contest...it reminds me a bit of the old paradigm "there is no replacement for displacement", but on a track without aftermarket brakes I wouldn't be so sure of the results.indecision 


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Do anyone have an idea how many in percentage drives these cars (Taycan, Tesla, M5, ....) on track? Or even how many 911 convertible are driven on track? We could extend it and ask how many of these cars has ever been fully braked? 

    It is really ridiculous to compare something where the usage is an edge case.Yes the vendor says something different but the 99% usage case says something different. 


    --

    AM


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    ALDO:

    Do anyone have an idea how many in percentage drives these cars (Taycan, Tesla, M5, ....) on track? Or even how many 911 convertible are driven on track? We could extend it and ask how many of these cars has ever been fully braked? 

    It is really ridiculous to compare something where the usage is an edge case.Yes the vendor says something different but the 99% usage case says something different. 

    Agreed but the "track" argument is used by dealers (and manufacturers) to sell these cars. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Der-Schwabe:
    RC:
    NelsonF:

    Maybe Taycan Turbo S and Lucid along with Plaid in the next iteration of this video?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7YqdGt19tw&t=217s

    Taycan Turbo S stands no chance vs the Plaid. Smiley

     

    Hardly surprising with 3x e-motors vs 2x in a straight-line contest...it reminds me a bit of the old paradigm "there is no replacement for displacement", but on a track without aftermarket brakes I wouldn't be so sure of the results.indecision 

    Just to highlight the significance of the number of e-motors, yesterday, Motortrend published a test of the 2022 Rivian R1T, yes, a truck (nothing sporty about it per se), and it recorded a 0 to 60 mph time of just 3.1 seconds with the 1/4 mile time of just 11.6 seconds, the fastest truck they ever tested and, let me just quote the publication:

    "How Is The Rivian R1T So Much Quicker Than Other Pickups?
    Easy: It comes down to motors. Four of 'em, to be exact. The Rivian R1T has four permanent-magnet motors, each one mounted inboard at a wheel, which combine to produce 835 horsepower and 908 lb-ft of torque. The front motors are slightly less powerful than the rear, producing 415 hp and 413 lb-ft versus 420 hp and 495 lb-ft." 

    https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-rivian-r1t-first-test-0-60-mph-review/


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    RC:
    ALDO:

    Do anyone have an idea how many in percentage drives these cars (Taycan, Tesla, M5, ....) on track? Or even how many 911 convertible are driven on track? We could extend it and ask how many of these cars has ever been fully braked? 

    It is really ridiculous to compare something where the usage is an edge case.Yes the vendor says something different but the 99% usage case says something different. 

    Agreed but the "track" argument is used by dealers (and manufacturers) to sell these cars. Smiley

    I’m pretty certain Tesla sells these without advertising anything except 0-60 and 1/4 mile times along with top speed and range.  

    Two more things - I have heard of plenty of Porsches replacing their brakes following track days. I never even dared to track my pccb brakes. 
    Secondly - I suppose you could back off a bit, still beat the Taycan, and save the brakes. 
    Let’s be real - to build track ready brakes for a car which accelerates like an F1 car but weighs 3x+ more the brakes would be crazy huge and very specialized.  In essence the car is too fast for its brakes. Not like that does not happen in the sports car world - but - and be honest here - have you always been more concerned with long lasting brakes or with going fast? 
    keep in mind that one of the records the plaid also holds is 0-100-0. It does take good brakes for that.  You could also, for less than the price difference, add the brakes used in the likes peak hill climb or around the other tracks tested by Randy P - where he has smashed lap times. (Which Tesla never mentions in ads)
     


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    The Tesla S P100D I test-drove had good brakes, I do not remember any issues. The Taycan Turbo S had fantastic brakes (PCCB) but I don't think that Musk would be so dumb to give the Plaid inferior brakes, so I assume the Plaid brakes are capable to handle the power and weight of the car. 
    My Trackhawk has really bad brakes when it comes to high speed driving, this is for sure. The brake feel and overall brake performance are great but only if you keep the speed under 200 kph (125 mph). Everything above and especially above 270 kph, is a nightmare, honestly. I hate it to drive faster than 260 kph in my Trackhawk and this has nothing to do with the excessive fuel consumption at these speeds.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    RC:

    The Tesla S P100D I test-drove had good brakes, I do not remember any issues. The Taycan Turbo S had fantastic brakes (PCCB) but I don't think that Musk would be so dumb to give the Plaid inferior brakes, so I assume the Plaid brakes are capable to handle the power and weight of the car. 
    My Trackhawk has really bad brakes when it comes to high speed driving, this is for sure. The brake feel and overall brake performance are great but only if you keep the speed under 200 kph (125 mph). Everything above and especially above 270 kph, is a nightmare, honestly. I hate it to drive faster than 260 kph in my Trackhawk and this has nothing to do with the excessive fuel consumption at these speeds.

    In cost cutting moves, the braking systems of North American vehicles tend to be designed with the consideration of North American speed limits.  Tesla is not much different than the Big 2.5.  Porsche, as an automaker, has helped developed significantly more braking system innovations than Tesla will ever develop.  Tesla still tends to develop its vehicles with the sunny climes of Southern California in mind than the rest of the world.  


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    CGX car nut:
    RC:

    The Tesla S P100D I test-drove had good brakes, I do not remember any issues. The Taycan Turbo S had fantastic brakes (PCCB) but I don't think that Musk would be so dumb to give the Plaid inferior brakes, so I assume the Plaid brakes are capable to handle the power and weight of the car. 
    My Trackhawk has really bad brakes when it comes to high speed driving, this is for sure. The brake feel and overall brake performance are great but only if you keep the speed under 200 kph (125 mph). Everything above and especially above 270 kph, is a nightmare, honestly. I hate it to drive faster than 260 kph in my Trackhawk and this has nothing to do with the excessive fuel consumption at these speeds.

    In cost cutting moves, the braking systems of North American vehicles tend to be designed with the consideration of North American speed limits.  Tesla is not much different than the Big 2.5.  Porsche, as an automaker, has helped developed significantly more braking system innovations than Tesla will ever develop.  Tesla still tends to develop its vehicles with the sunny climes of Southern California in mind than the rest of the world.  

    You  mean the Porsche company called Brembo located in Italy? 
    I really think that you have to learn a little bit about our (German) car production process.

    we have a very small Fertigungstiefe - sorry do not know the English word. It is less than 30% Porsche Rest are suppliers.


    --

    AM


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    ALDO:
    CGX car nut:
    RC:

    The Tesla S P100D I test-drove had good brakes, I do not remember any issues. The Taycan Turbo S had fantastic brakes (PCCB) but I don't think that Musk would be so dumb to give the Plaid inferior brakes, so I assume the Plaid brakes are capable to handle the power and weight of the car. 
    My Trackhawk has really bad brakes when it comes to high speed driving, this is for sure. The brake feel and overall brake performance are great but only if you keep the speed under 200 kph (125 mph). Everything above and especially above 270 kph, is a nightmare, honestly. I hate it to drive faster than 260 kph in my Trackhawk and this has nothing to do with the excessive fuel consumption at these speeds.

    In cost cutting moves, the braking systems of North American vehicles tend to be designed with the consideration of North American speed limits.  Tesla is not much different than the Big 2.5.  Porsche, as an automaker, has helped developed significantly more braking system innovations than Tesla will ever develop.  Tesla still tends to develop its vehicles with the sunny climes of Southern California in mind than the rest of the world.  

    You  mean the Porsche company called Brembo located in Italy? 
    I really think that you have to learn a little bit about our (German) car production process.

    we have a very small Fertigungstiefe - sorry do not know the English word. It is less than 30% Porsche Rest are suppliers.

    You better tell Matthias Leber that he isn’t the head of Porsche’s braking division because Porsche relies exclusively on its supplier Brembo for braking technologies. While you are at it, relay that information to the group that operates Porsche’s News Center too.  https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/christophorus/porsche-cayenne-turbo-surface-coated-brake-pscb-matthias-leber-weissach-14589.html


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    ALDO:
    CGX car nut:
    RC:

    The Tesla S P100D I test-drove had good brakes, I do not remember any issues. The Taycan Turbo S had fantastic brakes (PCCB) but I don't think that Musk would be so dumb to give the Plaid inferior brakes, so I assume the Plaid brakes are capable to handle the power and weight of the car. 
    My Trackhawk has really bad brakes when it comes to high speed driving, this is for sure. The brake feel and overall brake performance are great but only if you keep the speed under 200 kph (125 mph). Everything above and especially above 270 kph, is a nightmare, honestly. I hate it to drive faster than 260 kph in my Trackhawk and this has nothing to do with the excessive fuel consumption at these speeds.

    In cost cutting moves, the braking systems of North American vehicles tend to be designed with the consideration of North American speed limits.  Tesla is not much different than the Big 2.5.  Porsche, as an automaker, has helped developed significantly more braking system innovations than Tesla will ever develop.  Tesla still tends to develop its vehicles with the sunny climes of Southern California in mind than the rest of the world.  

    You  mean the Porsche company called Brembo located in Italy? 
    I really think that you have to learn a little bit about our (German) car production process.

    we have a very small Fertigungstiefe - sorry do not know the English word. It is less than 30% Porsche Rest are suppliers.

     

    Vertical Integration. One company making everything. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    So, this poses an interesting question. The Greens in Germany want to put speed limits on the autobahns of 130 KM/H. Issue I have with this is the German car industry has been able to develop cars capable of going 250 / 300 km/h precisely because of the unrestricted autobahns. And the car Industry in general supports a lot of high paying jobs (eg. A lot of people, tens of thousands making 100 - 300k). And the RoW buys German cars also b/c of this high specification. So why in the world would one as a German look to restrict this competitive advantage: makes no sense to me


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Cause these are the same people that drives 100km/hr on the passing lane blocking everyone. They don't like you getting to your destination ahead of them.

    The classic socialist mentality, no one is better at anything or everything, everyone take the same steps regardless.


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    ALDO:
    CGX car nut:
    RC:

    The Tesla S P100D I test-drove had good brakes, I do not remember any issues. The Taycan Turbo S had fantastic brakes (PCCB) but I don't think that Musk would be so dumb to give the Plaid inferior brakes, so I assume the Plaid brakes are capable to handle the power and weight of the car. 
    My Trackhawk has really bad brakes when it comes to high speed driving, this is for sure. The brake feel and overall brake performance are great but only if you keep the speed under 200 kph (125 mph). Everything above and especially above 270 kph, is a nightmare, honestly. I hate it to drive faster than 260 kph in my Trackhawk and this has nothing to do with the excessive fuel consumption at these speeds.

    In cost cutting moves, the braking systems of North American vehicles tend to be designed with the consideration of North American speed limits.  Tesla is not much different than the Big 2.5.  Porsche, as an automaker, has helped developed significantly more braking system innovations than Tesla will ever develop.  Tesla still tends to develop its vehicles with the sunny climes of Southern California in mind than the rest of the world.  

    You  mean the Porsche company called Brembo located in Italy? 
    I really think that you have to learn a little bit about our (German) car production process.

    we have a very small Fertigungstiefe - sorry do not know the English word. It is less than 30% Porsche Rest are suppliers.

    Agreed. This is about cost only. Jeep could have given the Trackhawk an excellent high speed brake system but what for? Most of these trucks are used to haul kids or for some dragstrip fun, no need for Autobahn durability. It is a shame that this mentality still exists with US manufacturers, especially for cars which also go into export.

    They could have offered a ceramic brake or an even bigger steel brake, the ceramic brake would have costed Jeep maybe 500 bucks more production cost, the steel brake probably under 200. I'm not kidding. Profit is important. I am pretty sure thought that customers would have paid 1000 bucks more for the Trackhawk to get a better brake system. Just saying.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    LA Auto Show-

    New Taycan Variant( Wagon),   Taycan GTS??

    https://www.motor1.com/news/547342/porsche-cayman-gt4rs-new-taycan/


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    RC:
    ALDO:
    CGX car nut:
    RC:

    The Tesla S P100D I test-drove had good brakes, I do not remember any issues. The Taycan Turbo S had fantastic brakes (PCCB) but I don't think that Musk would be so dumb to give the Plaid inferior brakes, so I assume the Plaid brakes are capable to handle the power and weight of the car. 
    My Trackhawk has really bad brakes when it comes to high speed driving, this is for sure. The brake feel and overall brake performance are great but only if you keep the speed under 200 kph (125 mph). Everything above and especially above 270 kph, is a nightmare, honestly. I hate it to drive faster than 260 kph in my Trackhawk and this has nothing to do with the excessive fuel consumption at these speeds.

    In cost cutting moves, the braking systems of North American vehicles tend to be designed with the consideration of North American speed limits.  Tesla is not much different than the Big 2.5.  Porsche, as an automaker, has helped developed significantly more braking system innovations than Tesla will ever develop.  Tesla still tends to develop its vehicles with the sunny climes of Southern California in mind than the rest of the world.  

    You  mean the Porsche company called Brembo located in Italy? 
    I really think that you have to learn a little bit about our (German) car production process.

    we have a very small Fertigungstiefe - sorry do not know the English word. It is less than 30% Porsche Rest are suppliers.

    Agreed. This is about cost only. Jeep could have given the Trackhawk an excellent high speed brake system but what for? Most of these trucks are used to haul kids or for some dragstrip fun, no need for Autobahn durability. It is a shame that this mentality still exists with US manufacturers, especially for cars which also go into export.

    They could have offered a ceramic brake or an even bigger steel brake, the ceramic brake would have costed Jeep maybe 500 bucks more production cost, the steel brake probably under 200. I'm not kidding. Profit is important. I am pretty sure thought that customers would have paid 1000 bucks more for the Trackhawk to get a better brake system. Just saying.

    Most drivers would never notice any improvement in braking because the vast majority of these vehicles are in stop-and-go traffic in large U.S. metropolitan areas.  


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    BONES:

    LA Auto Show-

    New Taycan Variant( Wagon),   Taycan GTS??

    https://www.motor1.com/news/547342/porsche-cayman-gt4rs-new-taycan/

    My guess is the Taycan Sport Turismo.


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Someone topped Porsche already with a 4-speed gearbox. With clutch and manual to boot!

     

    Such a no brainer. Now the manual diehard can enjoy EVs too.

    I had been jokingly saying someone should fit a electric motor to a manual box, now someone actually did it.

     


    --

     

     

     

     


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    bluelines:
    BONES:

    LA Auto Show-

    New Taycan Variant( Wagon),   Taycan GTS??

    https://www.motor1.com/news/547342/porsche-cayman-gt4rs-new-taycan/

    My guess is the Taycan Sport Turismo.

    Wasn't that released already?


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Joost:
    bluelines:

    My guess is the Taycan Sport Turismo.

    Wasn't that released already?

    If I am not mistaken there is only a Cross Turismo but no Sport Turismo.


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Whoopsy:

    Someone topped Porsche already with a 4-speed gearbox. With clutch and manual to boot!

     

    Such a no brainer. Now the manual diehard can enjoy EVs too.

    I had been jokingly saying someone should fit a electric motor to a manual box, now someone actually did it.

     


    --

     

     

     

     

    Agreed - awesome idea, but I bet it eats clutches. 


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    CGX car nut:
    RC:
    ALDO:
    CGX car nut:
    RC:

    The Tesla S P100D I test-drove had good brakes, I do not remember any issues. The Taycan Turbo S had fantastic brakes (PCCB) but I don't think that Musk would be so dumb to give the Plaid inferior brakes, so I assume the Plaid brakes are capable to handle the power and weight of the car. 
    My Trackhawk has really bad brakes when it comes to high speed driving, this is for sure. The brake feel and overall brake performance are great but only if you keep the speed under 200 kph (125 mph). Everything above and especially above 270 kph, is a nightmare, honestly. I hate it to drive faster than 260 kph in my Trackhawk and this has nothing to do with the excessive fuel consumption at these speeds.

    In cost cutting moves, the braking systems of North American vehicles tend to be designed with the consideration of North American speed limits.  Tesla is not much different than the Big 2.5.  Porsche, as an automaker, has helped developed significantly more braking system innovations than Tesla will ever develop.  Tesla still tends to develop its vehicles with the sunny climes of Southern California in mind than the rest of the world.  

    You  mean the Porsche company called Brembo located in Italy? 
    I really think that you have to learn a little bit about our (German) car production process.

    we have a very small Fertigungstiefe - sorry do not know the English word. It is less than 30% Porsche Rest are suppliers.

    Agreed. This is about cost only. Jeep could have given the Trackhawk an excellent high speed brake system but what for? Most of these trucks are used to haul kids or for some dragstrip fun, no need for Autobahn durability. It is a shame that this mentality still exists with US manufacturers, especially for cars which also go into export.

    They could have offered a ceramic brake or an even bigger steel brake, the ceramic brake would have costed Jeep maybe 500 bucks more production cost, the steel brake probably under 200. I'm not kidding. Profit is important. I am pretty sure thought that customers would have paid 1000 bucks more for the Trackhawk to get a better brake system. Just saying.

    Most drivers would never notice any improvement in braking because the vast majority of these vehicles are in stop-and-go traffic in large U.S. metropolitan areas.  

    Let’s be reasonable. If you are going so fast on this street that you overheat your brakes in the plaid you will instantly be arrested if anyone sees you.   That would be crazy driving on the street even an autobahn does not call for repeated rapid stops.  This is only a track concern. For that you have plenty of Porsches money left for more brakes if racing a huge heavy sedan is your thing. 


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:
    RC:
    ALDO:
    CGX car nut:
    RC:

    The Tesla S P100D I test-drove had good brakes, I do not remember any issues. The Taycan Turbo S had fantastic brakes (PCCB) but I don't think that Musk would be so dumb to give the Plaid inferior brakes, so I assume the Plaid brakes are capable to handle the power and weight of the car. 
    My Trackhawk has really bad brakes when it comes to high speed driving, this is for sure. The brake feel and overall brake performance are great but only if you keep the speed under 200 kph (125 mph). Everything above and especially above 270 kph, is a nightmare, honestly. I hate it to drive faster than 260 kph in my Trackhawk and this has nothing to do with the excessive fuel consumption at these speeds.

    In cost cutting moves, the braking systems of North American vehicles tend to be designed with the consideration of North American speed limits.  Tesla is not much different than the Big 2.5.  Porsche, as an automaker, has helped developed significantly more braking system innovations than Tesla will ever develop.  Tesla still tends to develop its vehicles with the sunny climes of Southern California in mind than the rest of the world.  

    You  mean the Porsche company called Brembo located in Italy? 
    I really think that you have to learn a little bit about our (German) car production process.

    we have a very small Fertigungstiefe - sorry do not know the English word. It is less than 30% Porsche Rest are suppliers.

    Agreed. This is about cost only. Jeep could have given the Trackhawk an excellent high speed brake system but what for? Most of these trucks are used to haul kids or for some dragstrip fun, no need for Autobahn durability. It is a shame that this mentality still exists with US manufacturers, especially for cars which also go into export.

    They could have offered a ceramic brake or an even bigger steel brake, the ceramic brake would have costed Jeep maybe 500 bucks more production cost, the steel brake probably under 200. I'm not kidding. Profit is important. I am pretty sure thought that customers would have paid 1000 bucks more for the Trackhawk to get a better brake system. Just saying.

    Most drivers would never notice any improvement in braking because the vast majority of these vehicles are in stop-and-go traffic in large U.S. metropolitan areas.  

    Let’s be reasonable. If you are going so fast on this street that you overheat your brakes in the plaid you will instantly be arrested if anyone sees you.   That would be crazy driving on the street even an autobahn does not call for repeated rapid stops.  This is only a track concern. For that you have plenty of Porsches money left for more brakes if racing a huge heavy sedan is your thing. 

    Let's be reasonable about how some have driven their Tesla Model S Plaids on the street.  Here's one example with a fatal outcome and as more of these cars are sold expect to see more incidents like this one.  A more powerful and fade resistant braking system might have averted the tragic outcome.  

    Tesla driver arrested after 116 mph crash kills two people and a dog

    Lawsuit claims crash caused pain, suffering, death

    PALM HARBOR, FL — Florida State Troopers have filed felony charges against the driver of a Tesla who investigators say was driving nearly 120 miles an hour in a residential neighborhood when he allegedly crashed the car, killing two people and a dog.

    The family of the homeowner killed in the crash is now taking legal action against the estate of the car’s owner who also died in the crash.

    Recent Stories from abcactionnews.com

    Top Videos Watch More PJ's Oyster Bar in St. Pete Beach has enormousstone crabsThe Tesla Model S Plaid, one of the fastest production cars in the world, crashed through the roof of a Palm Harbor home killing 69-year-old Donna Rein and her 14-year-old Yorkshire terrier Lilly.

    “It’s been hell. Every day without her hurts more. It doesn’t get better. I’m waiting for her to call me. I’m waiting for her to text me,” said Rein’s daughter Amber Mooney.

    Mooney is now left picking up the broken pieces of a once happy home, collecting her mother’s treasured belongings which have been exposed to the elements as a result of the gaping hole in the roof and the missing rear wall of the home.

    “If it’s raining outside, it’s raining inside,” Mooney said.

    House hit by Tesla Model S Plaid

    WFTS

    House hit by Tesla Model S Plaid

    “I remember everything, but I can’t really talk about it”

    “She retired for me so she could help me take care of my girls,” said daughter Lindsey Jones.

    Jones is a cancer survivor with two special needs daughters. She said her mother picked the girls up from school and took them to therapies.

    “She was there all day, every day just for us,” Jones said. ”She was the rock.”

    Donna Rein

    WFTS

    Donna Rein

    Jones and her boyfriend were in the house at the time of the crash.

    “I remember everything, but I can’t really talk about it. It’s too hard,” she said.

    The crash left them temporarily homeless.

    The Tesla’s owner bought the car hours earlier

    The ABC Action News I-Team has uncovered the car’s owner, Travis Meisman, bought the new Tesla hours before the crash and died in it later that night.

    According to Tesla’s website, the Model S Plaid model retails for $129,900, has a 1,020 peak horsepower electric motor, a top speed of 200 miles per hour, and can go from zero-to-sixty in 1.9 seconds.

    Investigators said Meisman allowed his friend Vaughn Mongan to drive the car. Mongan took it down Hermosa Drive, a tiny side street that ends at a “T” intersection directly behind Rein’s home.

    He was arrested last week, charged with two counts of vehicular homicide.

    116 miles an hour on a short residential street

    According to his arrest report, Mongan drove the Tesla 116 miles an hour in a 30-mile-an-hour zone, ran a stop sign, hit a fire hydrant and fence, then went up an embankment. That launched the car through the roof. It came to rest in the home, propelling Rein and her dog from her bedroom into the front yard.

    Tesla Model S Plaid Crash Diagram

    WFTS

    Tesla Model S Plaid Crash Diagram

    The I-Team rode on Hermosa Drive and determined it is only 0.3 miles long. That means it would take only 10 seconds to travel the entire length of that road at the maximum speed recorded on the car’s black box.

    “To see that, to know what happened and to know that our mother is gone, words can’t explain that,” Mooney said.

    Mongan was released after posting bond. When ABC Action News went to his home, no one answered the door.

    Lawsuit alleges “massive pain, suffering and ultimately her death”

    Rein’s family has filed a lawsuit against Mongan and Meisman’s estate, alleging Meisman gave Mongan the Tesla’s keys knowing he would operate the car in “a careless, reckless and/or negligent manner” causing Rein “massive pain, suffering and ultimately her death.”

    “I just think this was completely senseless. Careless, senseless. Completely ridiculous. Completely unnecessary. And my mom’s gone,” Jones said.

    The family has set up a GoFundMe page, hoping to meet immediate needs but they know that’ll only be a short-term solution to a tragedy that happened in a matter of seconds.

    “This isn’t going to go away. This isn’t a story and next week there’s another story. Our family forever will be trying to take care of our family and this is a forever problem for us,” Mooney said.

    Records show Mongan has had nine previous traffic violations in Pinellas County, including three speeding tickets.

    If you have a story you’d like the I-Team to investigate, email us at adam@abcactionnews.com


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Unfortunately I strongly believe this kind of sad events will multiply as the general public will buy more and more EV’s. People are not ready for such acceleration bursts. Insurance will get expensive fast. Lives will be lost.


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    bluelines:
    Joost:
    bluelines:

    My guess is the Taycan Sport Turismo.

    Wasn't that released already?

    If I am not mistaken there is only a Cross Turismo but no Sport Turismo.

    Ahhh, you might be right. I think this is the moment I officially stopped caring about all those stupid product diversifications. What the F is a Sport Turismo then? I was already disappointed when the 997 Carrera and Carrera S were introduced, then the gts, the t, etc. I’m sure it all makes sense, and yes, there is a flavor for everybody, but it also radiates that the brand doesn’t have a vision of its own and is just offering whatever they think they can sell. 


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    The Florida story is a reminder to all of us that high speed in public situations, in an EV or ICE car, is reckless and often deadly. I am not preaching to others here, because I’m guilty of this type of recklessness myself on occasion.


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 10/25/21 12:29 AM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    500542 1291
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 11/8/21 7:43 PM
    Leawood911
    181341 1154
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 12/5/21 9:31 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    71959 384
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 11/25/21 6:30 PM
    watt
    67393 686
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 11/19/21 6:44 AM
    bluelines
    53383 529
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    49134 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    13489 29
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 11/18/21 3:28 PM
    RCA
    581 0
    Porsche Cayman GT4 10/5/21 7:04 PM
    Topspeed
    474848 3587
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 9/28/21 3:25 AM
    WhoopsyM
    390230 3507
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 11/25/21 12:31 AM
    WhoopsyM
    386433 3949
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 11/17/21 5:18 PM
    Rossi
    351841 3256
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 10/8/21 11:41 AM
    xpto
    321867 2647
    Porsche 992 GT3 12/5/21 5:41 PM
    WhoopsyM
    281035 3156
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 9/29/21 1:59 AM
    watt
    254981 1587
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    169456 1379
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    120158 1225
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 9/22/21 1:28 AM
    Leawood911
    104581 749
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 12/4/21 12:36 AM
    Leawood911
    95983 1245
    McLaren F1 7/10/21 7:43 AM
    BiTurbo
    83396 209
    Lambo Aventador and SV 8/27/21 2:33 PM
    Topspeed
    74450 698
    AMG AMG GT R 7/8/21 3:07 PM
    CGX car nut
    74342 824
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/3/21 3:53 PM
    Topspeed
    54588 1399
    Others Bugatti Chiron 11/4/21 5:58 AM
    WhoopsyM
    44152 500
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 11/10/21 2:32 PM
    Topspeed
    41406 532
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    40009 615
    Porsche GT4RS 12/3/21 5:15 PM
    Rossi
    38655 713
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 12/5/21 6:03 PM
    WhoopsyM
    34556 1131
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 7/7/21 8:38 PM
    Jim_in_Iowa
    31241 394
    Ferrari 488 Replacement 4/17/21 8:28 PM
    Rossi
    28060 370
    250 items found, displaying 1 to 30.