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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    There are some truths in there. But it does not reflect the crowd here.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    A bit more than some truths.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:
     

    Even if they go under for restructuring, what Tesla has done is nothing short of amazing. They have forced a rewrite of the rules book on the car market today, took very profitable markets away from other luxury brands and create one of the most important brand of the automotive world in no time, all the while being lead by a crazy uncontrollable CEO.

    That sums it up quite well. I have owned BMW M, Audi RS, Merc AMG  (all sedans/estates) and I'm tempted to say that I'll prefer a Tesla any time, even with all the flaws; they are just so much fun and so useful.

    There are a lot of use cases where a Tesla is of no help, like driving 500+ km a day , having fun on a race track, going 300 kph on the autobahn, transporting an elephant and many many more. But every car is a compromise and I can easily live with those shortcomings. 

    There are endless reasons to criticize Musk for what he's doing to Tesla, but the products they build are more than amazing.  I bought the Tesla because I (and my neighbors) got very bored from 500 HP/2t sedans (well, the neighbors got fed up from revving engines at 5am) and wanted to find out how useful ELVs  are. Now after 16k KM I'm more than convinced - (without considering global economic aspects, which may become a significant challenge ).  If there is one thing I learned during the last 6 month, than it is that one should not believe all the BS that is written somewhere on the web. Just my 2ct

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    https://driving.ca/features/feature-story/motor-mouth-ev-proponents-are-their-own-worst-enemy

     

    He better brace for the backlash from the EV taliban green movement cause his advice to them in how to lobby for EV adoption will fly right over their head and will be seen as an enemy to "the cause"...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    schmoell:
    SciFrog:
     

    Even if they go under for restructuring, what Tesla has done is nothing short of amazing. They have forced a rewrite of the rules book on the car market today, took very profitable markets away from other luxury brands and create one of the most important brand of the automotive world in no time, all the while being lead by a crazy uncontrollable CEO.

    That sums it up quite well. I have owned BMW M, Audi RS, Merc AMG  (all sedans/estates) and I'm tempted to say that I'll prefer a Tesla any time, even with all the flaws; they are just so much fun and so useful.

    There are a lot of use cases where a Tesla is of no help, like driving 500+ km a day , having fun on a race track, going 300 kph on the autobahn, transporting an elephant and many many more. But every car is a compromise and I can easily live with those shortcomings. 

    There are endless reasons to criticize Musk for what he's doing to Tesla, but the products they build are more than amazing.  I bought the Tesla because I (and my neighbors) got very bored from 500 HP/2t sedans (well, the neighbors got fed up from revving engines at 5am) and wanted to find out how useful ELVs  are. Now after 16k KM I'm more than convinced - (without considering global economic aspects, which may become a significant challenge ).  If there is one thing I learned during the last 6 month, than it is that one should not believe all the BS that is written somewhere on the web. Just my 2ct

     

    EVs will be part of the market for years to come and one can understand the infatuation with the technology such as instantaneous torque and charge at home capabilities.  You are also correct on your assessment of Musk and he is probably one of the largest impediments to mass adaptation of this prime mover technology.  Profitability, not only a Tesla, will remain an issue for many, many quarters as the ecosystem for EVs have significant growth limitations.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:
    Whoopsy:

    https://driving.ca/features/feature-story/motor-mouth-ev-proponents-are-their-own-worst-enemy

     

    He better brace for the backlash from the EV taliban green movement cause his advice to them in how to lobby for EV adoption will fly right over their head and will be seen as an enemy to "the cause"...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Here you are again with your utter nonsens. Using words like taliban and green movement instead of at least trying to argue or have a mature discussion around the topic Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    schmoell:
    SciFrog:
     

    Even if they go under for restructuring, what Tesla has done is nothing short of amazing. They have forced a rewrite of the rules book on the car market today, took very profitable markets away from other luxury brands and create one of the most important brand of the automotive world in no time, all the while being lead by a crazy uncontrollable CEO.

    That sums it up quite well. I have owned BMW M, Audi RS, Merc AMG  (all sedans/estates) and I'm tempted to say that I'll prefer a Tesla any time, even with all the flaws; they are just so much fun and so useful.

    There are a lot of use cases where a Tesla is of no help, like driving 500+ km a day , having fun on a race track, going 300 kph on the autobahn, transporting an elephant and many many more. But every car is a compromise and I can easily live with those shortcomings. 

    There are endless reasons to criticize Musk for what he's doing to Tesla, but the products they build are more than amazing.  I bought the Tesla because I (and my neighbors) got very bored from 500 HP/2t sedans (well, the neighbors got fed up from revving engines at 5am) and wanted to find out how useful ELVs  are. Now after 16k KM I'm more than convinced - (without considering global economic aspects, which may become a significant challenge ).  If there is one thing I learned during the last 6 month, than it is that one should not believe all the BS that is written somewhere on the web. Just my 2ct

     

    Great post and spot on.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    schmoell:
    SciFrog:
     

    Even if they go under for restructuring, what Tesla has done is nothing short of amazing. They have forced a rewrite of the rules book on the car market today, took very profitable markets away from other luxury brands and create one of the most important brand of the automotive world in no time, all the while being lead by a crazy uncontrollable CEO.

    That sums it up quite well. I have owned BMW M, Audi RS, Merc AMG  (all sedans/estates) and I'm tempted to say that I'll prefer a Tesla any time, even with all the flaws; they are just so much fun and so useful.

    There are a lot of use cases where a Tesla is of no help, like driving 500+ km a day , having fun on a race track, going 300 kph on the autobahn, transporting an elephant and many many more. But every car is a compromise and I can easily live with those shortcomings. 

    There are endless reasons to criticize Musk for what he's doing to Tesla, but the products they build are more than amazing.  I bought the Tesla because I (and my neighbors) got very bored from 500 HP/2t sedans (well, the neighbors got fed up from revving engines at 5am) and wanted to find out how useful ELVs  are. Now after 16k KM I'm more than convinced - (without considering global economic aspects, which may become a significant challenge ).  If there is one thing I learned during the last 6 month, than it is that one should not believe all the BS that is written somewhere on the web. Just my 2ct

     

     

    It is why hybrids makes the most sense. EV mode in the neighbourhood and fun mode outside of it.

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    lukestern:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Whoopsy:

    https://driving.ca/features/feature-story/motor-mouth-ev-proponents-are-their-own-worst-enemy

     

    He better brace for the backlash from the EV taliban green movement cause his advice to them in how to lobby for EV adoption will fly right over their head and will be seen as an enemy to "the cause"...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Here you are again with your utter nonsens. Using words like taliban and green movement instead of at least trying to argue or have a mature discussion around the topic Smiley

    Did you get your panties in a bunch? Yes, the taliban green movement from the left side of the political spectrum who wants us to quit fossil fuels and nuclear energy without a back up plan, talibans because they are no different than the feminazis or the vegans who feed vegan diets to their carnivore dogs and cats. Too non-politically correct for you again?


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    schmoell:
    SciFrog:
     

    Even if they go under for restructuring, what Tesla has done is nothing short of amazing. They have forced a rewrite of the rules book on the car market today, took very profitable markets away from other luxury brands and create one of the most important brand of the automotive world in no time, all the while being lead by a crazy uncontrollable CEO.

    That sums it up quite well. I have owned BMW M, Audi RS, Merc AMG  (all sedans/estates) and I'm tempted to say that I'll prefer a Tesla any time, even with all the flaws; they are just so much fun and so useful.

    There are a lot of use cases where a Tesla is of no help, like driving 500+ km a day , having fun on a race track, going 300 kph on the autobahn, transporting an elephant and many many more. But every car is a compromise and I can easily live with those shortcomings. 

    There are endless reasons to criticize Musk for what he's doing to Tesla, but the products they build are more than amazing.  I bought the Tesla because I (and my neighbors) got very bored from 500 HP/2t sedans (well, the neighbors got fed up from revving engines at 5am) and wanted to find out how useful ELVs  are. Now after 16k KM I'm more than convinced - (without considering global economic aspects, which may become a significant challenge ).  If there is one thing I learned during the last 6 month, than it is that one should not believe all the BS that is written somewhere on the web. Just my 2ct

     

    It really depends on people, choices and financial possibilities.

    Would I get a Tesla? Yes, why not. Fun (like you said) and a novelty, different. I would only get one if I had tons of money and could afford various different cars. I would never get a Tesla as my only car, I wouldn't even get it as a second or third car. Right now, I would love to get an Urus as a family car. Then, maybe a Tesla but I doubt it. Maybe as a fifth or sixth car but financially, this would be out of my league right now, so no way.

    I am not opposed to Tesla or EVs in general but I look at these cars as some sort of gadget. I don't have to have it but if I could afford having one (alongside my other cars), I would definitely get one.

    My kids, 15 and 18, don't like EVs at all. They don't think they are cool. Right now we are working on a possibility to down-tune the ECU software of a Dodge Challenger V8 to make it "drivable" for a beginner. Guess why? Smiley So far, I haven't found anyone who can do it (legally), so... HEMI 6.4 or HEMI 5.7...we'll see.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
     

    It is why hybrids makes the most sense. EV mode in the neighbourhood and fun mode outside of it.

    I have to agree. Smiley Especially for heavy SUVs and pickup trucks, a hybrid makes a lot of sense. Electric around the city and full power outside the city. Would also help with efficiency since many heavy V8 SUVs and pickup trucks actually have the highest fuel consumption in the city. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    My family will soon have 2 EVs as our daily drivers and an ICE or hybrid as our 3rd "road trip" car.

    Those 3 would do it for us, but we're more affluent and can collect other ICE fun cars.


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + 991.2 GT2 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    W8MM:

    My family will soon have 2 EVs as our daily drivers and an ICE or hybrid as our 3rd "road trip" car.

    Those 3 would do it for us, but we're more affluent and can collect other ICE fun cars.

    I know... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The green aspect of an EV is at the bottom of the list of why they are great cars even already today for some people, including some here.

    If one here does not understand why many here who can have any car they want in their garage drive an EV on a daily basis by choice today, then clearly they are missing something big angry

    Hybrids even today only make sense if you do long trips on a regular basis (like RC for example). They are heavy and expensive, and combine two technologies by neutering both sides (some sport car neuter only the electric part like the 918). Also down the road, maintenance will be expensive since you have to care of two systems, many more chance for something to break down. But honestly today if you do long trips, just get a regular ICE car like an Urus, Cayenne or RRS, and get an EV for daily driver. Then you can add as many toys as you want. Let’s also not forget the “total cost to own” massive advantage of EVs. I know many here don’t care, but the majority of the population does.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    The green aspect of an EV is at the bottom of the list of why they are great cars even already today for some people, including some here.

    If one here does not understand why many here who can have any car they want in their garage drive an EV on a daily basis by choice today, then clearly they are missing something big angry

    Hybrids even today only make sense if you do long trips on a regular basis (like RC for example). They are heavy and expensive, and combine two technologies by neutering both sides (some sport car neuter only the electric part like the 918). Also down the road, maintenance will be expensive since you have to care of two systems, many more chance for something to break down. But honestly today if you do long trips, just get a regular ICE car like an Urus, Cayenne or RRS, and get an EV for daily driver. Then you can add as many toys as you want. Let’s also not forget the “total cost to own” massive advantage of EVs. I know many here don’t care, but the majority of the population does.

     

    The weight and cost argument is a moot point, pure EV cars are just as heavy and expensive. 

    A pure EV car is confined to getting plugged in to recharge, a hybrid have the flexibility of plugging in or filling up gas tanks.

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Sorry for the confusion, heavy and expensive vs an ICE car, well at least for the time being.

    Vs EV the direct comparaisons is more difficult because EV has faster acceleration and no engine so the car can be one size down for the same utility (more space inside and more cargo).

    A hybrid does not have flexibility, if you drive more than 30 miles you HAVE to go to the gas station, which is a real chore. I did not go to the gas station for two entire months, which was lovely on top of all the money saved. Not only that but every time I take the car, it is ALWAYS full so unless you drive over 200 miles, you never have to plan to stop to a gas station. In my area, to fill up you have to get off the highway. You usually end up in not some great neighborhoods. Also often you have to wait because all pumps are busy. And filling up in winter is not fun. Gas pumps are also the most prominent place for having your credit card stolen. Gas pumps and car wash are two places I would gladly never step a foot in ever again in my life.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Sorry for the confusion, heavy and expensive vs an ICE car, well at least for the time being.

    Vs EV the direct comparaisons is more difficult because EV has faster acceleration and no engine so the car can be one size down for the same utility (more space inside and more cargo).

    Stop changing the goal post. Heavy and expensive is also describing a EV car vs a ICE car.

    If we talk about the general public, they don't really care if a Tesla do 0-60mph 0.4 seconds faster than whatever. It's a mode of transport to them. And if you ask real car enthusiasts, they will never buy a EV car as there is non soul nor sound. Moot point. Cars only grew so big because of the ever growing Americans. For the slimmer population of Europe and RoW, the tiny 964 chassis still fits fine with lots of room for example. A car is not a ideal mode of transporting stuff if that's the goal, a pickup truck is a proper tool. But a the minivan Model X comes close for utility vs a say Sienna. 

    A hybrid does not have flexibility, if you drive more than 30 miles you HAVE to go to the gas station, which is a real chore. I did not go to the gas station for two entire months, which was lovely on top of all the money saved. Not only that but every time I take the car, it is ALWAYS full so unless you drive over 200 miles, you never have to plan to stop to a gas station. In my area, to fill up you have to get off the highway. You usually end up in not some great neighborhoods. Also often you have to wait because all pumps are busy. And filling up in winter is not fun. Gas pumps are also the most prominent place for having your credit card stolen. Gas pumps and car wash are two places I would gladly never step a foot in ever again in my life.

     

    This is YOUR subjective opinion. Nothing more. You are allergic to gas stations, I get it.

    Also, I have yet to come across a hybrid that can only do 30 miles a tank. Smiley

    But if you mean EV range, then it's also a moot point. EV cars can only go as far as their battery takes them, then that's it, done, finished. A EV car HAS to go find a plug to recharge, that's called inflexible. A hybrid isn't confined to a wall socket. Not that it mind getting plugged in. That's called flexibility, either fill up at gas station or plug into the wall. And if a hybrid's battery is depleted, it has the option of using the gas engine to continue the drive, and at the same time recharging the battery for later use. It does't NEED a wall socket. 

    Face it, you are the minority. For 95% of the world's driving population, going to a gas station is like going to a toilet to pee, they don't even think about it twice. Gas stations are plenty all around unlike charging spots, so there is absolutely no anxiety about find the next gas station. 

    Also, what if a hybrid's battery can only last 20-30miles or less? If their trip is within that range and there are charging facilities at either end of the trip, then the extra EV range of a EV car is also a moot point. The hybrid and the EV can do the same trip infinitely in EV mode. 

    Now take a step back, relax and look at the whole situation objectively. 

    A EV car is not a be all end all, it only fits a very narrow profile of people. It's the perfect car for that small group of people, but for the majority of car buying public, a EV doesn't make sense and there are a like a million reasons why. 

    Could EV take over in the future? Maybe. First the infrastructure needed to be there, and that's at least 20-30 years away if not more.

    The future could also be not EV but fuel cell cars. It's not a given that EV will win. A battery pack is dangerous. Unlike gasoline or diesel, that needs to be converted to energy inside the car, a battery pack is pure energy, densely packed. And the density is only getting denser as battery technology is advancing. One can almost say riding in a EV is like riding with a nitro-glycerine bomb. 

    I am actually not against EV, more like I am being realistic and unbiased in my opinion. Don't forget, I was one of the first to place a deposit on a Model 3, but altered cancelled and put one down for a Taycan, but that's also cancelled. Had I go through with the purchase, I would have all 3 kinds of cars. At the ed of the day, Tesla is just a inferior product and the Taycan I have no need for, especially when I already have one hybrid and soon another. I, however, is seriously considering buying a BMW i3. It's perfectly sized as a city car, cheap enough to obtain all government subsidies also. The kicker is that it can be parked at nice parking spots all downtown, those are more convenient than even the handicap spots. My 918 and incoming Panamera also qualifies but they are big and expensive to be parked that way. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Sorry for the confusion, heavy and expensive vs an ICE car, well at least for the time being.

    Vs EV the direct comparaisons is more difficult because EV has faster acceleration and no engine so the car can be one size down for the same utility (more space inside and more cargo).

    A hybrid does not have flexibility, if you drive more than 30 miles you HAVE to go to the gas station, which is a real chore. I did not go to the gas station for two entire months, which was lovely on top of all the money saved. Not only that but every time I take the car, it is ALWAYS full so unless you drive over 200 miles, you never have to plan to stop to a gas station. In my area, to fill up you have to get off the highway. You usually end up in not some great neighborhoods. Also often you have to wait because all pumps are busy. And filling up in winter is not fun. Gas pumps are also the most prominent place for having your credit card stolen. Gas pumps and car wash are two places I would gladly never step a foot in ever again in my life.


    Exactly.
    It's a real eye opener when you live with a long range EV for some time. I would never even consider a hybrid because there are just zero benefits for my use case and just a lot of downsides.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    "The European New Car Assessment Programme (Euro NCAP) has released safety and crash test results for new vehicles, including the Tesla Model 3, which set a “new safety technology benchmark”, according to the organization.

    Now Tesla’s latest electric car is receiving its results from the Euro NCAP tests conducted by Thatcham Research and the results are extremely good."



    https://electrek.co/2019/07/03/tesla-model-3-aces-crash-test-europe/


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Every household has different needs. As LukeStern, a hybrid is useless to my family today whereas the daily benefits of a pure EV makes the X the best daily driver and the best value on the market today for my needs.

    The point we are trying to make is that many do not realize how today’s long range Tesla EV also fits their needs, and how good their cars are to live everyday with. They are not for everyone, but they are very interesting.

    The Cayenne hybrid I drove for a few days had less than 30 miles range in city and was so slow in pure EV mode it was dangerous. On top of it it did not really use less fuel than a normal Cayenne. You could not really feel the extra weight though.

    Cannot wait to see all “smart” financial analyst now make yet another flip flop on their “view” of the future of Tesla angry


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Every household has different needs. As LukeStern, a hybrid is useless to my family today whereas the daily benefits of a pure EV makes the X the best daily driver and the best value on the market today for my needs.

    The point we are trying to make is that many do not realize how today’s long range Tesla EV also fits their needs, and how good their cars are to live everyday with. They are not for everyone, but they are very interesting.

    The Cayenne hybrid I drove for a few days had less than 30 miles range in city and was so slow in pure EV mode it was dangerous. On top of it it did not really use less fuel than a normal Cayenne. You could not really feel the extra weight though.

    Cannot wait to see all “smart” financial analyst now make yet another flip flop on their “view” of the future of Tesla angry

     

    And that, is the bottom line. 

    EV is not for everyone, and for those that fits the profile, it's great.Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    So this is the Tesla Roadster thread. How many people here would be cross shopping a regular 992 model with a Roadster?

    It looks like the 992 might get some electrification at some point in the form of a mild hybrid, so the 992 is moving closer to the Tesla, plus reports say the 992 is muted and getting more and more comfy and less sporty.

    Price wise, the Roadster right now is 20% more, that said Tesla MSRP price tend to go down with cheaper batteries while 911 prices keep creeping up a lot...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    According to insiders at Goodwood, there is a good deal of customer demand for the retro-styled Honda e Prototype...

    1562364026241image.jpeg

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla YouTuber Bjørn Nyland breaks 24-hour electric car distance record — 2,781km

    https://apple.news/A3IWqMV1UT1-o5IL5fOFY3g


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla Model 3 Performance shatters all-time EV lap record at Laguna Seca

    https://apple.news/ApiSJBnrOQsWxUrIRpZJctw

    The vehicle’s 1:37.5 time bests that of far costlier performance cars, including the Ferrari F12 Berlinetta, BMW M4 GTS, the Porsche 911, and the Aston Martin Vantage


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Taycan at Goodwood:

    https://youtu.be/TVn2eUgKYoc


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla Model X Raven makes quick work of Lamborghini Urus in quarter-mile race

    https://apple.news/AiQ_2bMZNTxK-qi8uSU8B2g 

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Tesla Model X Raven makes quick work of Lamborghini Urus in quarter-mile race

    https://apple.news/AiQ_2bMZNTxK-qi8uSU8B2g 

     

    Can the "Raven" do this twice within a short period of time? Smiley Smiley Smiley

    Also: The Urus looks amazing, the X looks...well...out of respect to you I won't say it. Smiley

    Also, the X sounds like shit. My farts are louder. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Tesla Model X Raven makes quick work of Lamborghini Urus in quarter-mile race

    https://apple.news/AiQ_2bMZNTxK-qi8uSU8B2g 

     

    Can the "Raven" do this twice within a short period of time? Smiley Smiley Smiley

    Also: The Urus looks amazing, the X looks...well...out of respect to you I won't say it. Smiley

    Also, the X sounds like shit. My farts are louder. Smiley


    Minivanesque... SmileySmiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


     
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