Crown

Grant:

What an achievement:  Porsche developed a Twin Turbo 4.0L V8 that has 60hp less than their 4.0L 6-cyl engine with no turbos 

Kiwi Nick’s opinion:

https://youtu.be/H3dto4zR0Jc

--

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

Particulate filter and WLTP...you seem to forget that.

What do you expect? To give the GTS the same power as the Turbo (550 hp)? Of course they used a "down-tuned" version for it, it saves cost, it allows more power and torque, so why not?! 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Such a heavy car needs to have torque, a lot of torque, otherwise it is not fun to drive.

Josef:

Such a heavy car needs to have torque, a lot of torque, otherwise it is not fun to drive.

It is certainly more fun to drive when it has massive torque (my E63 S is the best example) but I cannot say I didn't enjoy my former Cayenne GTS with the n/a engine and the Cayenne carried at least 200 kg more weight.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

When I bought my first 912 in 1966, people said it was overpriced (versus a Corvette, etc.), and that accusation has been advanced ever since.  Over the years I have owned a Ferrari, several Mercedes and a Lamborghini.  Porsche has always suited me, and my lifestyle at the time, better than any other sports car. I also admire the company and its incomparable dedication to racing, which is part of my commitment to the brand. 

Right now, the Panamera Turbo is perfect for me.  I am not attracted to powerful Mercedes sedans or SUVs--not uniquely styled, kind of a regular sedan with add-ons.  And as for the Panamera price against other Porsches?  My Turbo is about 15K more than.a nicely optioned Carrera 4S, is at least as fast, and far more convenient and usable.

Having said all of this, I am very interested in the Taycan as my next ride, and will concede that I wish Porsche prices overall would decline or at least stay stable.  They are getting beyond my range, but hey, as an old Car and Driver article said "Porsche is a muscle car, without the stigma of low cost."

Wonderbar:

When I bought my first 912 in 1966, people said it was overpriced (versus a Corvette, etc.), and that accusation has been advanced ever since.  Over the years I have owned a Ferrari, several Mercedes and a Lamborghini.  Porsche has always suited me, and my lifestyle at the time, better than any other sports car. I also admire the company and its incomparable dedication to racing, which is part of my commitment to the brand. 

Right now, the Panamera Turbo is perfect for me.  I am not attracted to powerful Mercedes sedans or SUVs--not uniquely styled, kind of a regular sedan with add-ons.  And as for the Panamera price against other Porsches?  My Turbo is about 15K more than.a nicely optioned Carrera 4S, is at least as fast, and far more convenient and usable.

Having said all of this, I am very interested in the Taycan as my next ride, and will concede that I wish Porsche prices overall would decline or at least stay stable.  They are getting beyond my range, but hey, as an old Car and Driver article said "Porsche is a muscle car, without the stigma of low cost."

 

When you have to care about money (me, in this case), it makes a big difference if you have to pay almost 50k more for basically an inferior product (performance). 

A fun car is a different story, I am willing to pay big bucks for something I really want but the family car definitely isn't that kind of car, even if I always make sure I have (still) fun in it...or with it. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Wonderbar:

When I bought my first 912 in 1966, people said it was overpriced (versus a Corvette, etc.), and that accusation has been advanced ever since.  Over the years I have owned a Ferrari, several Mercedes and a Lamborghini.  Porsche has always suited me, and my lifestyle at the time, better than any other sports car. I also admire the company and its incomparable dedication to racing, which is part of my commitment to the brand. 

Right now, the Panamera Turbo is perfect for me.  I am not attracted to powerful Mercedes sedans or SUVs--not uniquely styled, kind of a regular sedan with add-ons.  And as for the Panamera price against other Porsches?  My Turbo is about 15K more than.a nicely optioned Carrera 4S, is at least as fast, and far more convenient and usable.

Having said all of this, I am very interested in the Taycan as my next ride, and will concede that I wish Porsche prices overall would decline or at least stay stable.  They are getting beyond my range, but hey, as an old Car and Driver article said "Porsche is a muscle car, without the stigma of low cost."

 

There is a market for Panamera turbo, but it is usually for older people with high income and no kids living in a mild climate. Not to say it is a niche market, but it is much smaller than the market for a sporty SUV or crossover.

SciFrog:

Wonderbar:

When I bought my first 912 in 1966, people said it was overpriced (versus a Corvette, etc.), and that accusation has been advanced ever since.  Over the years I have owned a Ferrari, several Mercedes and a Lamborghini.  Porsche has always suited me, and my lifestyle at the time, better than any other sports car. I also admire the company and its incomparable dedication to racing, which is part of my commitment to the brand. 

Right now, the Panamera Turbo is perfect for me.  I am not attracted to powerful Mercedes sedans or SUVs--not uniquely styled, kind of a regular sedan with add-ons.  And as for the Panamera price against other Porsches?  My Turbo is about 15K more than.a nicely optioned Carrera 4S, is at least as fast, and far more convenient and usable.

Having said all of this, I am very interested in the Taycan as my next ride, and will concede that I wish Porsche prices overall would decline or at least stay stable.  They are getting beyond my range, but hey, as an old Car and Driver article said "Porsche is a muscle car, without the stigma of low cost."

 

There is a market for Panamera turbo, but it is usually for older people with high income and no kids living in a mild climate. Not to say it is a niche market, but it is much smaller than the market for a sporty SUV or crossover.

There is actually a huge market for high performance sedans, this is why the BMW M5 and the Mercedes E63 S AMG sell well, at least in Germany. The Audi RS6 and the S8 were also quite successful...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

In Germany... that’s only one county RC. The rest of Europe is either too poor or too eco conscious (Nordic countries). In RoW, sedans are dead.

SciFrog:

In Germany... that’s only one county RC. The rest of Europe is either too poor or too eco conscious (Nordic countries). In RoW, sedans are dead.

I see tons of sedans wherever I travel in Europe (mostly Germany, Austria, Italy and Switzerland), so... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

 A Panamera is for older people with high income and no kids? Guess I’m an exception. I am older – 76 years old—but I still have a son at home, and my income is constantly worn away by college costs, suppoting  my older children, and the high cost of living in a major metropolitan US area.

 And over the years I’ve built, modified and raced cars on US tracks, in the Baja desert, and admittedly on the street... I still crave quality, power and performance. 

Maybe Panamera is a niche market, but so is a 911, a high priced SUV, and any number of Porsche RS variants. The fact is, Porsche is a niche brand.

RC:

SciFrog:

In Germany... that’s only one county RC. The rest of Europe is either too poor or too eco conscious (Nordic countries). In RoW, sedans are dead.

I see tons of sedans wherever I travel in Europe (mostly Germany, Austria, Italy and Switzerland), so... 

+1

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Surely Switerland is an exception but luxury sedan market in Spain France and Italy for example is not as big as you think it is. And anyway, that’s still in Europe...

Wonderbar:

 A Panamera is for older people with high income and no kids? Guess I’m an exception. I am older – 76 years old—but I still have a son at home, and my income is constantly worn away by college costs, suppoting  my older children, and the high cost of living in a major metropolitan US area.

 

Hey Wonderbar,

If you do not mind, how old is your son that is still at home?

and happy motoring!  I hope I will continue to enjoy fast car when/if I reach your age.

Tim

2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
 

 My son just turned 17, and my 23-year-old daughter graduated from the University of Edinburgh a year ago and is now living in London. My wife is 23 years younger than I am, and we have had a wonderfully happy marriage for over 26 years.  I have two older children, one living in Los Angeles and one living in New York City. I am truly lucky and blessed.   And to top it all off, my first wife and I are great friends, and our families all get along well together. What’s not to like, or be grateful for?

That’s awesome! Enjoy

Wonderbar:

 My son just turned 17, and my 23-year-old daughter graduated from the University of Edinburgh a year ago and is now living in London. My wife is 23 years younger than I am, and we have had a wonderfully happy marriage for over 26 years.  I have two older children, one living in Los Angeles and one living in New York City. I am truly lucky and blessed.   And to top it all off, my first wife and I are great friends, and our families all get along well together. What’s not to like, or be grateful for?

Happy for you

Tim

2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
 

Sedan is still very popular here in UAE.

S-Class sales is gigantic for the small area

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

Sedan is still very popular here in UAE.

S-Class sales is gigantic for the small area

In Germany as well...BMW 3 and 5 series and Mercedes C and E class...

BMW 7 series and Mercedes S class aren't going too well though, same goes to Audi A8 (I think).

People usually go a number smaller on most cars, including SUVs. Why? Well, I think that it just isn't "appropriate" anymore over here to drive a big car, as weird as this may sound. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

On the contrary for our part of the world it seems that bigger is better. I see teenagers with tactless baseball caps & funny looking bling jewelry driving around G63 4x4 & RR Wraiths, and I think Sheeee what is this world coming to

$ can't buy taste thats for sure 

Upsa:

On the contrary for our part of the world it seems that bigger is better. I see teenagers with tactless baseball caps & funny looking bling jewelry driving around G63 4x4 & RR Wraiths, and I think Sheeee what is this world coming to

$ can't buy taste thats for sure 

I know but over here in Europe, this would be (almost) impossible. Both ways aren't right though.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

For my simple tastes I quite prefer smaller more reasonable cars than some of these mammoths wafting around 

In metropolitan cities along the US East Coast, there is a trend away from large SUVs to midsize SUVs or crossovers. And in the United States  overall, the most popular car – besides a Ford 150 truck—is the Toyota Rav 4.

Just bought my daughter a new RAV4 hybrid. Meh. 

Leawood911:

Just bought my daughter a new RAV4 hybrid. Meh. 

Does it have the electronic rear view mirror?

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

Leawood911:

Just bought my daughter a new RAV4 hybrid. Meh. 

Does it have the electronic rear view mirror?

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

It actually has a shitload of options including adaptive cruise etc. $2k down and $220 per month. 3 year lease.  While the pay the bill as in give her money she qualified and bought it on her own without any other help.  No job, full time student. Her credit rating is excellent. In a city like Portland with its epic traffic jams the electric mode will be used a lot. Perfect choice. Also 4wd of sorts. Not for off road or speed though.  Sensible transport. I have not seen it except in one picture I can post it if any of you girlymen have a wide-on for it. (Joke)

Leawood911:

It actually has a shitload of options including adaptive cruise etc. $2k down and $220 per month. 3 year lease.  While the pay the bill as in give her money she qualified and bought it on her own without any other help.  No job, full time student. Her credit rating is excellent. In a city like Portland with its epic traffic jams the electric mode will be used a lot. Perfect choice. Also 4wd of sorts. Not for off road or speed though.  Sensible transport. I have not seen it except in one picture I can post it if any of you girlymen have a wide-on for it. (Joke)

You don't have to explain why you support your girl, glad you do and apparently she deserves it.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsche-plots-two-door-panamera-bmw-8-series-rival?utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign...

Such a car would be a sure hit, if the styling is a success. Not just a shorter Panamera with 2 doors.

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

Sounds interesting; assuming it does not turn into a design masturbation exercise.

I kind of like the idea although it would seem to me that large luxury coupe sales are flagging in general? Not sure if someone has the stats but 8 series doesn’t really sell, MB S class coupe (whatever they call it these days, still think of it as a SEC) doesn’t seem to sell as much as it used to, so let’s see. I will say I was in Germany the other day and rented a car from Avis. They had confirmed to me a Panamera GTS Touring and I was kind of looking forward to it... only issue was Porsche didn’t deliver it and i was disappointed... until they offered me a brand new 991.2 GTS (14 km on it) which was an easy yes....