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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    DJM48:

    Cannot fix the picture but ironically appropriate  indecision

    I was going to say, I thought you had done it on purpose 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    DJM48:

    The renders look good

    The renders are quite good, rear is almost perfect, front a bit less and side line isn't quite there yet (though windows seem OK).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC: Does the car look like the photoshop work in the taycanforum? In my option this could be realistic but it looks also a little bit boring. Is this what you mean with the look of a modern interpretation of the Panamera? But this PS-work looks quite different from the car in the teaser-pics... the rear fenders are too small. Smiley

    34982662_240725306538686_2415071784261910528_n.jpg


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    farina:

    RC: Does the car look like the photoshop work in the taycanforum? In my option this could be realistic but it looks also a little bit boring. Is this what you mean with the look of a modern interpretation of the Panamera? But this PS-work looks quite different from the car in the teaser-pics... the rear fenders are too small. Smiley

    34982662_240725306538686_2415071784261910528_n.jpg

    I described the renders in my post above. Yes, quite close in my opinion.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

     

    What is this?

    https://www.motor.es/noticias/porsche-taycan-sport-turismo-fotos-espia-201851106.html


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Taycan Sport Turismo...I guess mail


    --


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SportCarGroup:

    Taycan Sport Turismo...I guess mail

    Well they already showed the Cross Turismo concept no?  Looks like a mule for a production version, perhaps without the off-roady aspect of the concept, just an estate.    

    https://www.porsche.com/international/aboutporsche/e-performance/mission-e-cross-turismo/

     


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Has anyone seen a Panamera Sport Turismo on the street?   My  dealer, one of the largest in our region, has not sold one. Is this model a failure? 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I really like THAT !!!!!


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Wonderbar:

    Has anyone seen a Panamera Sport Turismo on the street?   My  dealer, one of the largest in our region, has not sold one. Is this model a failure? 

    I've never seen one on the road over here in Germany... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Two Pana ST in Zagreb. Sold via local Porsche Dealership. I saw one in Ljubljana few days ago with SLO licence plates. Pretty good looking car IMHO.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I've seen a few Pana ST's on the road in the UK. I'm not a fan of the styling personally as the design has been compromised by the understandable use of the rear doors from the 5 door hatch version. Their sloping top window line makes the flatter roofline look awkward to my eyes.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Friend of mine has one, for every 10 pana’s you see around here, 2 are Sport Turismo’s...


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    @ISUK: You´ve written a brilliant design analysis about the Mission e concept and the current prototype. But the car we have seen on the road (i saw the prototype at the Nürburgring this week) has nothing to do with the car Porsche shows in the first teaser. The car in the teaser has other front and rear fenders and looks more similar to the Mission e concept. What do you think about this fact? Did the company fool us with the teaser pics?? (also a question for RC)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    farina:

    @ISUK: You´ve written a brilliant design analysis about the Mission e concept and the current prototype. But the car we have seen on the road (i saw the prototype at the Nürburgring this week) has nothing to do with the car Porsche shows in the first teaser. The car in the teaser has other front and rear fenders and looks more similar to the Mission e concept. What do you think about this fact? Did the company fool us with the teaser pics?? (also a question for RC)

    A concept never makes it 1:1 to the road, this needs to be clear. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Hmm...just heard that the 600 hp version of the Taycan will be over 140k EUR...base price. 

    Only the base model, power is yet to be determined, will be slightly over 90k.

    Maybe this is common knowledge, I don't know but I always thought that the 600 hp version is the one for slightly over 90k EUR. Smiley I guess I was a bit optimistic. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:

    Hmm...just heard that the 600 hp version of the Taycan will be over 140k EUR...base price. 

    Only the base model, power is yet to be determined, will be slightly over 90k.

    Maybe this is common knowledge, I don't know but I always thought that the 600 hp version is the one for slightly over 90k EUR. Smiley I guess I was a bit optimistic. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    Since your first post about the price, I was very skeptical that Porsche will offer 600hp for under 100k…Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porsche did a wonderful marketing job by hiding the real price tag.

    They were alway talking about 600 hp and slightly over 90k EUR, so everyone assumed both are "connected". Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:

    Hmm...just heard that the 600 hp version of the Taycan will be over 140k EUR...base price. 

    Only the base model, power is yet to be determined, will be slightly over 90k.

    Maybe this is common knowledge, I don't know but I always thought that the 600 hp version is the one for slightly over 90k EUR. Smiley I guess I was a bit optimistic. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    Told you so? Smiley

    From day one of this cheap rumor I shot it down. They will not cannibalize their Panamera and Cayenne sales. Another Tesla vaporware competitor bites the dust.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:
    RC:

    Hmm...just heard that the 600 hp version of the Taycan will be over 140k EUR...base price. 

    Only the base model, power is yet to be determined, will be slightly over 90k.

    Maybe this is common knowledge, I don't know but I always thought that the 600 hp version is the one for slightly over 90k EUR. Smiley I guess I was a bit optimistic. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    Told you so? Smiley

    I was hoping for a wonder I guess but I forgot this is Porsche we're talking about, the most profitable mass production car company on this planet. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Now factor in that the car is not out for another 1.5 to 2 years, and that in Porsche tradition it will barely evolves for another 3 to 4 years, it is outdated even before being in the market. All the while Tesla can tweak and retrofit their fleet and offerings while enjoying an enormous cool factor in the USA. Heck even a high spec model Y could trounce the Taycan for a cheaper price.

    Then with Tesla cash flow positive by year end at the latest and their best selling model Y to hit the market in a couple of years hopefully with a better designed and manufactured body (cheaper and lighter), the rumors of Tesla going under are far too fetched. They will easily raise the capital they from only from the existing lenders who will want to protect the investment they already have.

    You all living in Europe are downplaying Tesla aura in the USA. It is enormous, it is simply THE brand to won. Smiley On the macro front all you hear from biased media is that the USA is pulling away from reducing emissions but what you forget is that the people speak with their wallet and their choices despite what Trump does. In France hybrids and electric cars are less than 1% all the sales but in the USA Tesla is one of the best selling brands. The people of the USA are doing more for the environment that most European countries just because they have the financial power to do so. The Germans know they are behind in EV tech and do al lot to catch up. Yet their infrastructure is not quite ready so soon enough they will be stuck between a marketing language and the hard reality of low EV sales in Europe. All this talk about hydrogen from them is not a coincidence, They already know EV in Europe will take decades to catch on.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Geez, here we go again with the Porsche “Doom and Gloom”  argument. Boring.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Now factor in that the car is not out for another 1.5 to 2 years, and that in Porsche tradition it will barely evolves for another 3 to 4 years, it is outdated even before being in the market. All the while Tesla can tweak and retrofit their fleet and offerings while enjoying an enormous cool factor in the USA. Heck even a high spec model Y could trounce the Taycan for a cheaper price.

    Then with Tesla cash flow positive by year end at the latest and their best selling model Y to hit the market in a couple of years hopefully with a better designed and manufactured body (cheaper and lighter), the rumors of Tesla going under are far too fetched. They will easily raise the capital they from only from the existing lenders who will want to protect the investment they already have.

    You all living in Europe are downplaying Tesla aura in the USA. It is enormous, it is simply THE brand to won. Smiley On the macro front all you hear from biased media is that the USA is pulling away from reducing emissions but what you forget is that the people speak with their wallet and their choices despite what Trump does. In France hybrids and electric cars are less than 1% all the sales but in the USA Tesla is one of the best selling brands. The people of the USA are doing more for the environment that most European countries just because they have the financial power to do so. The Germans know they are behind in EV tech and do al lot to catch up. Yet their infrastructure is not quite ready so soon enough they will be stuck between a marketing language and the hard reality of low EV sales in Europe. All this talk about hydrogen from them is not a coincidence, They already know EV in Europe will take decades to catch on.

    I don't think that the Taycan is going to be outdated when it hits the market(s), it is using the latest tech and will be improved all the time. Lots of stuff is software related, here lies the real magic. 

    You don't seem to realize how much money VW Group pumped into EV development...you'll understand after a couple of years. Actually, I am very skeptical of this because there is only a small EV market but if the market grows bigger faster, VW will be there to pick up the glory.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porsche doom and gloom? Porsche will do fine for a very long time, they enjoy the fatest margins of luxury car makers. But unlike what was inferred here, Porsche will not be the brand to help EV penetration, on the contrary. They have too much at stake protecting their top end Panamera and Cayenne sales and will push for these hybrid abominations to milk the cow further and save face vs EVs.

    As said many times before, hybrid only makes sense in very sporty applications (ie 918) or very small cheap slow cars (Prius). That’s because to make sense hybrid cars need a large battery to run for extended periods of time. The problem is that you cannot have a large battery on top of a combustion engine. Too heavy and pricey. In 10-20 years maybe but by then battery tech will have taken over almost entirely.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    I don't think that the Taycan is going to be outdated when it hits the market(s), it is using the latest tech and will be improved all the time. Lots of stuff is software related, here lies the real magic. 

    You don't seem to realize how much money VW Group pumped into EV development...you'll understand after a couple of years. Actually, I am very skeptical of this because there is only a small EV market but if the market grows bigger faster, VW will be there to pick up the glory.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    Unless proven otherwise, thinking Porsche will make EV evolve every other year or so is just wishful thinking. Look at their history with hybrid cars. The way they manage inventory, it would be a nightmare to have a new model every 2 years or less. Tesla builds to order and has no dealers to massage.

    No doubt VW is throwing billions at EV tech. But in the end sales will dictate the evolution. The EV investment is a marketing ploy to put the dieselgate behind. Problem is Europe is not ready for EV anytime soon apparently and people will realize soon enough that hybrids are more expensive and don’t save that much fuel yet, or it is done at a complete trade off for decent performance.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    EV tech will evolve much faster...wait and see. So much is sensory tech and software.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Well that’s Tesla strength... we shall see how VW catches on. I somehow have a hard time believing them after seeing their slow move to Bluetooth and such a decade ago and seeing how slow their cars evolve currently Mercedes GLS doesn’t even have a digital dash three years after the tech has become mainstream...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Let's put it this way.  Porsche and any other manufacturer would b INSANE not to invest heavily in electric vehicles.  And Porsche will do it well, even if there are other good products (Tesla, for example) on the market, or even if that market shifts away from EVs eventually.  And Porsche will not "protect" its "top end Panamera and Cayenne sales" or any of its GT3/RS stuff either, and risk moving too slowly.  If electric power is a true trend, Porsche will adapt all of its models to suit. 

    And I have never believed that Porsche and Tesla are, or will be, direct competitors.  The brands and the customers are different.  I have numerous friends with Teslas, and none of them would have ever considered Porsche when they bought their cars..These friends are not into a sportscar brand, and will never be to any real extent.  And they will remain loyal to Tesla as long as Tesla produces good products, or does not implode financially.  In my view, Porsche is really looking to improve its model range and customer appeal, within its own brand and for future buyers who are not already Tesla owners.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Well I have many friends who are the exact opposite. They totally cross shop Porsche, BMW Merc LR and such and Tesla. Porsche is a luxury sporty brand with some street appeal. But Tesla is now beating them at this game. Porsche problem is that they are better at handling performance but behind in straight line. Marketing wise, they are in a real pickle. Plus Porsche pushes EV but they also push hybrid AND until 3 months again also pushed diesel. Their story gets muddied a lot.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    Wonderbar:

    Has anyone seen a Panamera Sport Turismo on the street?   My  dealer, one of the largest in our region, has not sold one. Is this model a failure? 

    I've never seen one on the road over here in Germany... Smiley

    I see them once and a while ... actually more and more 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


     
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