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    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    haudimal said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Let's see if we can find some common ground without resorting to personal attacks.


    6. Please remember that manufacturer claims are marketing tools and cannot be taken too seriously.




    Sorry for chrashing the party but i trust published times by Porsche. It's a serious car manufacturer not a tuner, who tries to sell his parts over impressive tracktimes. If Porsche says car x can do yy:yy time under fixed circumstances, believe me, then somebody can do this. They know, that they probably not even sell one care more, because of sec + or - tracktimes.

    I'm on track with my 997TT at 1.11. and after that i will tell you the truth

    I trust them too because in Autobild Walter Röhrl confirmed with 7.34 the former claimed 7.32.
    I'll hope you will reach a lap time under 7.50.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Let's imagine there is a rennteam meeting and 2 new guys meet the rennteam members for the first time.
    Scenario 1:
    New 99TT driver : Hi I just bought my new turbo. It is a fantastic car.
    Good informed rennteam member : No. It is a lame duck and slower than the 996TT.
    New 997TT driver: Why??????
    Good informed rennteam member: Because H.v.S. drove 1 timed lap on NS and the time was bad.

    Scenario 2:
    New 99GT2 driver : Hi I just bought my new GT2. It is a fantastic car and extremely fast.
    Good informed rennteam member : No. We cannot agree and discuss that at this time. The car maybe is slower than the claimed factory times. We have to wait until the SA supertest and H.v.S. has done his 1 lap.

    What will these two guys think about the good informed rennteam members?

    One question from an uninformed rennteam member:
    You claimed the 997TT has a disappointing performance. I think we all agree that the turbo is not easy to drive. Let's imagine we have the turbo and another car XY. A good experienced driver test both cars same day at NS. With the turbo he did a 7.54 and with car XY 7.49. The logic of the SA and H.v.S. follower says : The 997TT is worse than car XY. Then the driver did another 10 laps with each car. Then he did a 7.45 with the turbo and a 7.47 with XY. What do you think now?



    Stephan, you can agree or disagree with what you like. You just have to accept that I did not buy the 997TT because I am convinced that the car is misconstructed and underperforming vehicle which is not good enough to justify a buy The car might be good enough for you. That's OK. However, I consider it an underperformer

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Quote:
    haudimal said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Let's see if we can find some common ground without resorting to personal attacks.


    6. Please remember that manufacturer claims are marketing tools and cannot be taken too seriously.




    Sorry for chrashing the party but i trust published times by Porsche. It's a serious car manufacturer not a tuner, who tries to sell his parts over impressive tracktimes. If Porsche says car x can do yy:yy time under fixed circumstances, believe me, then somebody can do this. They know, that they probably not even sell one care more, because of sec + or - tracktimes.

    I'm on track with my 997TT at 1.11. and after that i will tell you the truth

    I trust them too because in Autobild Walter Röhrl confirmed with 7.34 the former claimed 7.32.
    I'll hope you will reach a lap time under 7.50.



    What are you writing about my friend? WR never confirmed a 7:34 in AB... That is my point: you guys try to participate in a discussion without having a reasonable information basis at all. It is not enough to repeat wrong statements again and again. There are two ways for you to go: either get informed (which requires *reading* test reports, driving and discussing with well informed :-) Rennteamers) or focus on reading posts (of well informed Rennteamers ).

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Let's imagine there is a rennteam meeting and 2 new guys meet the rennteam members for the first time.
    Scenario 1:
    New 99TT driver : Hi I just bought my new turbo. It is a fantastic car.
    Good informed rennteam member : No. It is a lame duck and slower than the 996TT.
    New 997TT driver: Why??????
    Good informed rennteam member: Because H.v.S. drove 1 timed lap on NS and the time was bad.

    Scenario 2:
    New 99GT2 driver : Hi I just bought my new GT2. It is a fantastic car and extremely fast.
    Good informed rennteam member : No. We cannot agree and discuss that at this time. The car maybe is slower than the claimed factory times. We have to wait until the SA supertest and H.v.S. has done his 1 lap.

    What will these two guys think about the good informed rennteam members?

    One question from an uninformed rennteam member:
    You claimed the 997TT has a disappointing performance. I think we all agree that the turbo is not easy to drive. Let's imagine we have the turbo and another car XY. A good experienced driver test both cars same day at NS. With the turbo he did a 7.54 and with car XY 7.49. The logic of the SA and H.v.S. follower says : The 997TT is worse than car XY. Then the driver did another 10 laps with each car. Then he did a 7.45 with the turbo and a 7.47 with XY. What do you think now?



    BTW: it is really remarkable how much you like your 997TT by now... For the benefit of the readers of this forum we might point out that until 18 months ago you never thought of buying a Porsche! Then I convinced you to buy a Porsche (don't deny it , you know it is true)... Actually, you bought more than one in the few months that followed...

    And today: you are telling me - who is one of the major if not the only reason why you bought a 997TT - that I might argue without proper logic Very funny Very funny indeed

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    As an owner with a taste for high performance road course driving, I have personally experienced the following

    1)non-linear cornering characteristics of the stock TT on stock tires and stock alignment - initial heavy understeer followed by sudden oversteer when pushing over 8/10th driving

    2)significant reduction of #1 when switching the car to semi-slick tires

    3)complete elimination of #1 after aligning the suspension to Gt3 street specs. The stock TT is spec'd to run a mere 40 minutes of negative camber in front. The Gt3 runs neg 1 degree and 20 minutes - a HUGE difference. I have never seen a high performance car spec'd with so little neg camber as the TT. It is almost like making a speedboat drag a crooked rudder or a giving a footballer ballerina shoes to wear.

    I have run my car on the same 2.9 mile 15 turn roadcourse in all 3 above configs. I have been on this roadcourse for 8+ years. I can compare lap times with my race/track car which is perhaps 1150 kg and 380PS (2:00). In config #1, could not match the lap times (2:06ish), #2 could match the lap time (2:00), #3 easily beat the lap times by 2 seconds (1:58). Granted I am a hobbyist driver at best, and I never push past 8/10ths in the TT. If I could drop 8 seconds on a 2.9 mile course, I sure can imagine the 997tt could drop much more on a 11 mile course. I think the 7:40 time is real, but not on the current lousy alignment. The alignment explains everything. You can seen in my latest track video how smoothly and linearly the TT handles after improved alignment

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    haudimal said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Let's see if we can find some common ground without resorting to personal attacks.


    6. Please remember that manufacturer claims are marketing tools and cannot be taken too seriously.




    Sorry for chrashing the party but i trust published times by Porsche. It's a serious car manufacturer not a tuner, who tries to sell his parts over impressive tracktimes. If Porsche says car x can do yy:yy time under fixed circumstances, believe me, then somebody can do this. They know, that they probably not even sell one care more, because of sec + or - tracktimes.

    I'm on track with my 997TT at 1.11. and after that i will tell you the truth



    Did you see the data in the GT2 prospectus? You honestly believe in them? Just tell me what NBR time Porsche claims for the 599GTB... After looking up that number, comparing it with the SportAuto figure of the 599GTB you will probably never repeat your above statement again. These numbers are maketing numbers. These guys are selling cars - they don't want to be your friends. On the other hand, their strategy seems to work with some buyers (right Stephan )...

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Here is one pretty interesting video of new GT2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFPfDlMM9I&NR=1 specially for those who can speak German. Walter said that new 997 GT2 is 10s faster then any previous model(997 I presume) that he drove on the Ring. So, MT 7.40min time is pure fantasy...
    Also, one thing-I got long email impression about new GT2 from my Motorpresse friend(they have the car for the test in AMS) and in short car is as fast as claimed(and even faster...). But, he was stunned with the fact that you really can drive new GT2 in everyday situation without any problem. Top speed? More then 350km/h on digital speedo...

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Markus,
    I do not agree with you regarding 599GTB times at both AMS and SA. Ferrari sended entire factory crew to be at Motorpresse stuff for these tests... Same story was with EVO 599 test as well... And 599 is only that fast with little help from 20" optional wheels and some software modifications(engine and active chassis)... Will your 599 be that fast on the autobahn? What do you think who is faster from say 140km/h till 300km/h 599 or new GT2? 599? Think twice... GT2 of course.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    an other Supertest fact:

    Hockenheim

    997TT: 1.11,9
    996TT: 1.14,6
    996GT2:1.12,6

    Kind of funny, that in Hockenheim the 997TT is about 3 sec faster and on a track 6 times longer only 4 sec faster.

    In Hockenheim it's even faster then 996GT2, but what goes wrong on the ring ->

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    haudimal said:
    an other Supertest fact:

    Hockenheim

    997TT: 1.11,9
    996TT: 1.14,6
    996GT2:1.12,6

    Kind of funny, that in Hockenheim the 997TT is about 3 sec faster and on a track 6 times longer only 4 sec faster.

    In Hockenheim it's even faster then 996GT2, but what goes wrong on the ring ->



    PTM setup. It is(was) tricky on the limit. And PTM could be as well little bit too fast for most drivers on the limit(of course not for W.Rohrl).

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Markus,
    I do not agree with you regarding 599GTB times at both AMS and SA. Ferrari sended entire factory crew to be at Motorpresse stuff for these tests... Same story was with EVO 599 test as well... And 599 is only that fast with little help from 20" optional wheels and some software modifications(engine and active chassis)... Will your 599 be that fast on the autobahn? What do you think who is faster from say 140km/h till 300km/h 599 or new GT2? 599? Think twice... GT2 of course.



    Kreso, I have to disappoint you... A Porsche factory driver told me (in person) that the Porsche test crew did a 7:42 (!!!) with a 599GTB. Obviously, that is even much faster than the 7:47 posted in AB

    P.S.: Regarding AB performance - we might know the answer shortly (I will do the test myself...). My bet is that the 599GTB is quicker than the GT2 by 3s or so.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Markus,
    I do not agree with you regarding 599GTB times at both AMS and SA. Ferrari sended entire factory crew to be at Motorpresse stuff for these tests... Same story was with EVO 599 test as well... And 599 is only that fast with little help from 20" optional wheels and some software modifications(engine and active chassis)... Will your 599 be that fast on the autobahn? What do you think who is faster from say 140km/h till 300km/h 599 or new GT2? 599? Think twice... GT2 of course.



    Kreso, I have to disappoint you... A Porsche factory driver told me (in person) that the Porsche test crew did a 7:42 (!!!) with a 599GTB. Obviously, that is even much faster than the 7:47 posted in AB

    P.S.: Regarding AB performance - we might know the answer shortly (I will do the test myself...). My bet is that the 599GTB is quicker than the GT2 by 3s or so.



    Well...OK. Then simply buy 599 as you originally planned and enjoy it! Hopefully it wont be affected with usual "Burn-In" Ferrari plague...

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Kreso ,

    may i ask 3 questions as you are expeirenced at this topics

    First- what if Horst Von Saurma has tested 997 Turbo Tipronic instead of manuel on both Hring and Nring?? Isnt the Tiptronic the fastest 997 Turbo due to Porsche and their advertisements?? And why did they get a manuel or did Porsche send them a manuel? Do u know any info?
    What would be the results? Any idea


    Second- If HVS test 997GT2 on Nring and get a 7.40 time on that test. What would we say about it compared to WR?? HVS must retire and must do barbeque at his home?? or something wrong with Porsche claims and real worl time tests.(As most of us including me,you,marcus and many of us assume SA and HVS as the most real one compared to other crap tests) Ok i understand there can be a difference but they have at least 8-10 sec difference which seems very high

    Third- I know Nring is the most suitable track but ,
    Is there another comparison test at another track of these cars. I mean both R8, F430 , G, 997TT, Z06 etc etc.
    Except Bedford EVO circuit as you mentioned therre is something wrong with it

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Markus,
    I do not agree with you regarding 599GTB times at both AMS and SA. Ferrari sended entire factory crew to be at Motorpresse stuff for these tests... Same story was with EVO 599 test as well... And 599 is only that fast with little help from 20" optional wheels and some software modifications(engine and active chassis)... Will your 599 be that fast on the autobahn? What do you think who is faster from say 140km/h till 300km/h 599 or new GT2? 599? Think twice... GT2 of course.



    Kreso, I have to disappoint you... A Porsche factory driver told me (in person) that the Porsche test crew did a 7:42 (!!!) with a 599GTB. Obviously, that is even much faster than the 7:47 posted in AB

    P.S.: Regarding AB performance - we might know the answer shortly (I will do the test myself...). My bet is that the 599GTB is quicker than the GT2 by 3s or so.



    Well...OK. Then simply buy 599 as you originally planned and enjoy it! Hopefully it wont be affected with usual "Burn-In" Ferrari plague...



    Actually, my current plan is to (additionally) order a GT2 However, before doing that I will wait for the first magazine tests and will also do a quick tour with the car myself I could never forgive me buying a GT2 just on the basis of Porsche claims (the 997TT disappointment has severly influenced me as you have correctly stated in one of your older posts ).

    P.S.: I think that the combination of 599 and GT2 does make sense, don't you agree? Oh, nearly forgot one additional detail: the GT2 has a competitor which is undergoing the SportAuto Supertest as well. I will also wait for the test results of this car (the car is not from Italy and might be even faster on the NBR than the GT2 On the AB it is clearly faster. Guess which car I might be talking about ).

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    @MKSGR "These guys are selling cars - they don't want to be your friends" - 100% agree :-)

    @kresoF1: great vid, it says a lot about there thinking

    @eclou: You're right. I've been to my dealer talking about the alignment because of my tires. The first goal of the factory alignment is NOT fastest possible tracktimes, the stable "Geradeauslauf" (no idea in english..) on the autobahn was much more important.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Kreso ,

    may i ask 3 questions as you are expeirenced at this topics

    First- what if Horst Von Saurma has tested 997 Turbo Tipronic instead of manuel on both Hring and Nring?? Isnt the Tiptronic the fastest 997 Turbo due to Porsche and their advertisements?? And why did they get a manuel or did Porsche send them a manuel? Do u know any info?
    What would be the results? Any idea


    Second- If HVS test 997GT2 on Nring and get a 7.40 time on that test. What would we say about it compared to WR?? HVS must retire and must do barbeque at his home?? or something wrong with Porsche claims and real worl time tests.(As most of us including me,you,marcus and many of us assume SA and HVS as the most real one compared to other crap tests) Ok i understand there can be a difference but they have at least 8-10 sec difference which seems very high

    Third- I know Nring is the most suitable track but ,
    Is there another comparison test at another track of these cars. I mean both R8, F430 , G, 997TT, Z06 etc etc.
    Except Bedford EVO circuit as you mentioned therre is something wrong with it



    Excellent points

    Your second point is particularly interesting: What happens if HvS did just 7:40... My guess: the two or three guys we know from the above discussion ( ) will surely state that it is HvS that is incapable of driving a car properly. And by doing this these two or three guys will confirm that the Porsche marketing tricks have deceived them successfully and that they believe whatever Porsche tells them...

    Hey, maybe all this will not happen as HvS does a good time with the GT2 as well, who knows

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:Walter said that new 997 GT2 is 10s faster then any previous model(997 I presume) that he drove on the Ring. So, MT 7.40min time is pure fantasy...



    Ok, 7:41-42 then

    On my local track, 50hp is worth about 1 sec/3 mile lap. The GT2 has a 50hp advantage plus 200+lbs weight advantage thus 2 sec/3 mile lap advantage over the TT. Very close to the gap we see.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Caghan,

    First about 997 Turbo TIP and manual... Manual with optional LSD is faster on any track what so ever in hands of good driver(and Horst von Saurma is very good driver). Difference is around 1s on the Hockenheim... Porsche only claimed that TIP version is faster in straight line acceleration(BUT, ONLY if you use "power turque" method!).

    Horst time for new GT2 will be good... You will see...

    Bedford EVO track... EVO lost its credibility for me after their R8 test at the Bedford. Why? R8 was faster then 599, 997 Turbo, Vette Z06, 997 GT3 RS etc. according to EVO stuff. And Gallardo SL was only 0.4s(!!!) faster then R8...

    For example on German Oschersleben track(used by Auto Bild Sportscar edition) R8 was 5s slower then 997 Turbo(manual with LSD) and way slower then Gallardo SL(currently the fastest normal sportscar on that track)...

    You need more info?

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Even if we take the 7.40 997 TT time claimed by Porsche, it is not really quicker than the 996 TT, which was 7.56 by Sport Auto on street tyres, minus 10-12 seconds for Cups, minus four-six seconds for WR instead of HvS, equals about the same time.

    This means there is no improvement in Ring times between the 996 and 997 Turbos. Add to that the tricky-at-the-limit problem of the 997 TT and it looks like the 996 Turbo may very well be the faster car.

    But to compare the fastest possible 996 TT and the 997 TT Ring times accurately, we would need WR to drive both cars on the same day with the same tyres (and with optimum track set-ups). That is unlikely to happen, which is why we rely on Sport Auto for the most credible comparison between cars.

    And even if it did happen, Porsche would likely instruct Walter to make the 997 look faster so they can sell more new cars.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Caghan,

    First about 997 Turbo TIP and manual... Manual with optional LSD is faster on any track what so ever in hands of good driver(and Horst von Saurma is very good driver). Difference is around 1s on the Hockenheim... Porsche only claimed that TIP version is faster in straight line acceleration(BUT, ONLY if you use "power turque" method!).

    Horst time for new GT2 will be good... You will see...

    Bedford EVO track... EVO lost its credibility for me after their R8 test at the Bedford. Why? R8 was faster then 599, 997 Turbo, Vette Z06, 997 GT3 RS etc. according to EVO stuff. And Gallardo SL was only 0.4s(!!!) faster then R8...

    For example on German Oschersleben track(used by Auto Bild Sportscar edition) R8 was 5s slower then 997 Turbo(manual with LSD) and way slower then Gallardo SL(currently the fastest normal sportscar on that track)...

    You need more info?



    Thanks you my friend , that is very informative for me

    And we shall see the HVS time on GT2.... Also off-topic i wonder the coming F430 Scuderia vs GT2 challenge in the future

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2





    Oh, nearly forgot one additional detail: the GT2 has a competitor which is undergoing the SportAuto Supertest as well. I will also wait for the test results of this car (the car is not from Italy and might be even faster on the NBR than the GT2 On the AB it is clearly faster. Guess which car I might be talking about ).



    Blue Devil?

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    My guess: the two or three guys we know from the above discussion ( ) will surely state that it is HvS that is incapable of driving a car properly. And by doing this these two or three guys will confirm that the Porsche marketing tricks have deceived them successfully and that they believe whatever Porsche tells them...




    I do not hope you think here of me

    I didn't share your discussion about HvS/WR/Porsche/... tracktimes. Nothing is less important for me buying a roadcar. I owned 7 new Ferrari and took part a season CarreraCup and SuperCup, so i think i'm quite objective regarding Porsche or Ferrari.

    So why did I(!) buy a997TT? What else as a daily?

    Lambo, F430 - no
    F599 - no, because i need 4WD in my daily in winter
    Audi R8 - never ever. I love Audi, the 997 is a substitute for a S8, but i don't need a 4door anymore
    Mercedes, BMW never never ever

    i bought the 997 without a test drive, just trusting Porsche, that they know how to build a car;-)

    And now that i have it, i'm impressed, it is the perfect car for ME(!) and my daily rides.

    I will never ever defend my car against somebody, who has difference thoughts, i share my experiences and think about what people are saying.

    At least, i still don't believe, that porsche (same with F, Audi, Merc,...)promotes officially wrong times of their products for marketing reasons. When they give you a time, they can't wait to prove it -> video of WR 7.32 GT2. I'm talking about the marketing of the factory, not some rumors a porsche guy may have said somewhere, somehow...

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Lol that is not my quote that is MKSGR's quote.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    haudimal said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    My guess: the two or three guys we know from the above discussion ( ) will surely state that it is HvS that is incapable of driving a car properly. And by doing this these two or three guys will confirm that the Porsche marketing tricks have deceived them successfully and that they believe whatever Porsche tells them...




    I do not hope you think here of me

    I didn't share your discussion about HvS/WR/Porsche/... tracktimes. Nothing is less important for me buying a roadcar. I owned 7 new Ferrari and took part a season CarreraCup and SuperCup, so i think i'm quite objective regarding Porsche or Ferrari.

    So why did I(!) buy a997TT? What else as a daily?

    Lambo, F430 - no
    F599 - no, because i need 4WD in my daily in winter
    Audi R8 - never ever. I love Audi, the 997 is a substitute for a S8, but i don't need a 4door anymore
    Mercedes, BMW never never ever

    i bought the 997 without a test drive, just trusting Porsche, that they know how to build a car;-)

    And now that i have it, i'm impressed, it is the perfect car for ME(!) and my daily rides.

    I will never ever defend my car against somebody, who has difference thoughts, i share my experiences and think about what people are saying.

    At least, i still don't believe, that porsche (same with F, Audi, Merc,...)promotes officially wrong times of their products for marketing reasons. When they give you a time, they can't wait to prove it -> video of WR 7.32 GT2. I'm talking about the marketing of the factory, not some rumors a porsche guy may have said somewhere, somehow...



    No worries. I did not include you in my above reproach

    BTW: I see your point why the 997TT is a good car. The entire package is still unique. People who know me (like turbosteff ) know that I am a big fan of Porsche (and the TT in particular). I drove Porsche TT for years and am fully aware of the siginificant number of advantages these cars offer. However, I also take the liberty to criticize Porsche as any other OEM if I am not convinced of their products

    And no (as someone repeatedly stated wrongly above): HvS is not my "idol". Nor is WR. My idol (as far as racing is concerned) is MS. There is no substitute for him. Nobody has ever achieved what he has achieved in a race car

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Lol that is not my quote that is MKSGR's quote.



    And I just thought that your thoughts in the above post could be my own

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Quote:
    haudimal said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Let's see if we can find some common ground without resorting to personal attacks.


    6. Please remember that manufacturer claims are marketing tools and cannot be taken too seriously.




    Sorry for chrashing the party but i trust published times by Porsche. It's a serious car manufacturer not a tuner, who tries to sell his parts over impressive tracktimes. If Porsche says car x can do yy:yy time under fixed circumstances, believe me, then somebody can do this. They know, that they probably not even sell one care more, because of sec + or - tracktimes.

    I'm on track with my 997TT at 1.11. and after that i will tell you the truth

    I trust them too because in Autobild Walter Röhrl confirmed with 7.34 the former claimed 7.32.
    I'll hope you will reach a lap time under 7.50.



    What are you writing about my friend? WR never confirmed a 7:34 in AB... That is my point: you guys try to participate in a discussion without having a reasonable information basis at all. It is not enough to repeat wrong statements again and again. There are two ways for you to go: either get informed (which requires *reading* test reports, driving and discussing with well informed :-) Rennteamers) or focus on reading posts (of well informed Rennteamers ).

    Markus why are you lying? Why do you post wrong facts? See http://www.autobild.de/artikel/Themen-Testberichte-Duell-am-Ring_422642.html there you can read it. 7.32.

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Quote:
    haudimal said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Let's see if we can find some common ground without resorting to personal attacks.


    6. Please remember that manufacturer claims are marketing tools and cannot be taken too seriously.




    Sorry for chrashing the party but i trust published times by Porsche. It's a serious car manufacturer not a tuner, who tries to sell his parts over impressive tracktimes. If Porsche says car x can do yy:yy time under fixed circumstances, believe me, then somebody can do this. They know, that they probably not even sell one care more, because of sec + or - tracktimes.

    I'm on track with my 997TT at 1.11. and after that i will tell you the truth

    I trust them too because in Autobild Walter Röhrl confirmed with 7.34 the former claimed 7.32.
    I'll hope you will reach a lap time under 7.50.



    What are you writing about my friend? WR never confirmed a 7:34 in AB... That is my point: you guys try to participate in a discussion without having a reasonable information basis at all. It is not enough to repeat wrong statements again and again. There are two ways for you to go: either get informed (which requires *reading* test reports, driving and discussing with well informed :-) Rennteamers) or focus on reading posts (of well informed Rennteamers ).

    Markus why are you lying? Why do you post wrong facts? See http://www.autobild.de/artikel/Themen-Testberichte-Duell-am-Ring_422642.html there you can read it. 7.32.



    I start doubting your senses... Just compare what your wrote above: 7:34 is not 7:32...

    P.S.: Please concentrate when writing posts for Rennteam

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    BTW: it is really remarkable how much you like your 997TT by now... For the benefit of the readers of this forum we might point out that until 18 months ago you never thought of buying a Porsche! Then I convinced you to buy a Porsche (don't deny it , you know it is true)... Actually, you bought more than one in the few months that followed...

    And today: you are telling me - who is one of the major if not the only reason why you bought a 997TT - that I might argue without proper logic Very funny Very funny indeed

    18 month ago you were convinced that the 997TT is a fast car with a lot of advantages for me.Today you are convinced that the 997TT is an under performer. That means to me: better not to listen to you because you could change your mind day by day....

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Quote:
    haudimal said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Let's see if we can find some common ground without resorting to personal attacks.


    6. Please remember that manufacturer claims are marketing tools and cannot be taken too seriously.




    Sorry for chrashing the party but i trust published times by Porsche. It's a serious car manufacturer not a tuner, who tries to sell his parts over impressive tracktimes. If Porsche says car x can do yy:yy time under fixed circumstances, believe me, then somebody can do this. They know, that they probably not even sell one care more, because of sec + or - tracktimes.

    I'm on track with my 997TT at 1.11. and after that i will tell you the truth

    I trust them too because in Autobild Walter Röhrl confirmed with 7.34 the former claimed 7.32.
    I'll hope you will reach a lap time under 7.50.



    What are you writing about my friend? WR never confirmed a 7:34 in AB... That is my point: you guys try to participate in a discussion without having a reasonable information basis at all. It is not enough to repeat wrong statements again and again. There are two ways for you to go: either get informed (which requires *reading* test reports, driving and discussing with well informed :-) Rennteamers) or focus on reading posts (of well informed Rennteamers ).

    Markus why are you lying? Why do you post wrong facts? See http://www.autobild.de/artikel/Themen-Testberichte-Duell-am-Ring_422642.html there you can read it. 7.32.



    I start doubting your senses... Just compare what your wrote above: 7:34 is not 7:32...

    P.S.: Please concentrate when writing posts for Rennteam

    What is with your sense (or have you just forgotten what you wrote 30 sec. ago) : you wrote in the post above WR never confirmed 7.34 in AB??? Ans I think all rennteam members -the good informed and the uninformed members- knows that lap times on NS can differ within 2 seconds.
    Or is AB not good enough for confimation?

    Re: Autobild-Walter Rohrl-997 GT2

    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    BTW: it is really remarkable how much you like your 997TT by now... For the benefit of the readers of this forum we might point out that until 18 months ago you never thought of buying a Porsche! Then I convinced you to buy a Porsche (don't deny it , you know it is true)... Actually, you bought more than one in the few months that followed...

    And today: you are telling me - who is one of the major if not the only reason why you bought a 997TT - that I might argue without proper logic Very funny Very funny indeed

    18 month ago you were convinced that the 997TT is a fast car with a lot of advantages for me.Today you are convinced that the 997TT is an under performer. That means to me: better not to listen to you because you could change your mind day by day....



    18 months ago he expected the 997TT to be superior in every aspect to its predecessor. We know this isn't the case today. Anyway, buy the man a pizza instead of grilling him for his criticism of Porsche. After all, he suggested you buy this car, you did, you like it, apparently enough to argue with him over the internet, so what's the problem if he changed his mind? You love your car, he loves to criticize your car and everybody's happy .

     
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