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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SportCarGroup:

    Because after all, GT3 is a sports car. When I drive with a baby in a car, I don't drive like I like to drive, I drive as I should because of double safety reason. When I drive such a car as GT3, I want be able to drive it like GT3 should be driven.

    So when you drive such a car in the city with pedestrians walking around, across an avenue near a school zone, in a busy intercity road, etc... you drive it like its meant to be drive? cause if so, either you a danger to traffic safety, your definition of driving a GT3 how its meant to be driven varies vastly from my definition....

    A GT3 can be driven like its supposed to when its appropiate and the time to do so, and being a street car that it is and the sportcar nuts that we are, can also be driven like a street car in other ocasions instead of having to drive a boring sedan.

    Look at the picture fo that GT2 with the rear child seat, that tells me that the driver is such a sportcar fan that he wants to drive a sportcar like a GT2 even when need to take his child to school for example. If he were a poseur, then he would be worried about the "image" of a rear seat on the car instead.


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    911rox:

    ps. What were Porsche trying to prove by entering the NBR 24hr if they are "just street cars"? Hmmmmm.... Food for thought...I'll ponder this as I prepare to call it a night and sleep... :)

    Porsche also builds race cars...they cost a little bit more money and are usually not street legal. If you need one, I can help you through a Porsche Motorsport contact. Just saying...

    C'mon, you get what I am trying to say but you are p.ss.d because of your CL issues. I get it but you also need to understand Porsche's side of the story. This doesn't mean they build bad cars or that they don't care about customers.

    What is Posche's side of the story? They build fast cars, introduce new technology and when they get it wrong they wash their hands clean of the problem with excuses? They chose to adopt CLs, the failed to engineer and execute correctly, they owe it to their customers to get it right and right a wrong! FULL STOP...

    Today its CLs, tomorrow it may be the new "motorsport" motor. So will it be fair for customers to be told they need to strip/ rebuild their motor every 20000 track kms, 3 years after introduction at their own expense because there is an issue but Porsche don't feel the need to address it?

    They charge good money for their products... If they want to protect their reputation and look after customers, they need to drop the arrogance and step up to fix their mistakes properly.Ferraris started to burn, That would have been humiliating for the company but they admited their fault, sort a solution and fixed the cars permanently. Thats what a good company does... Looks after its customers and reputation over its double digit bottom line!!!!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    SportCarGroup:
    Because after all, GT3 is a sports car. When I drive with a baby in a car, I don't drive like I like to drive, I drive as I should because of double safety reason. When I drive such a car as GT3, I want be able to drive it like GT3 should be driven.

    So what? The 911 Turbo is also a sports car, so is the 911 Carrera. No more kids in these cars? Smiley

    The GT3 is the illusion of a race car, this is what makes is so special. It feels special, it is fast and it is probably more fun to drive than other Porsche 911 models but you can still use it as a daily driver and...take a kid with you. I see no problem with that. On public streets, unless we are talking Autobahn here, there is no real possibility to do excessive speeds and otherwise, well...I think that a kid would be more safe with me in a GT3 than with my wife in a SUV. Smiley

    That's the point GT3 isn't a daily driver. It is not made for that. I don't know how to explain it, but when I drive a GT3, I'm not driving like Mrs. Daisy driver. I like to have fun with the car and enjoy the power it delivers. But if know that I should take my kid to somewhere I will take the Range Rover, will drive relaxed and with maximum comfort. Kill me but using GT3 as a daily driver is the same as taking Aventador/Veyron to supermarket shopping.

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Porker:
    But the fact of the matter is, Porsche raced a 'streetcar' in the Nürburgring 24hrs, exactly to promote its track-credentials. For you to then state that people shouldn't race their GT3's because they're essentially streetcars is contradicting exactly what Porsche was trying to promote. Smiley

    The GT3 R is clearly labeled a race car by Porsche, I do not see any street car here. This is no street car, look at the specs. The only thing close to their street car is maybe the engine but the new engine will be used for racing too, so we need to wait and see how it will work out for Porsche.

    Marketing...or do you really think drinking Red Bull lets you fly? Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The 2010 GT3RS they competed was a street car and they raced it against all sorts of race cars in a 24 hour enduro... That doesn't suggest to the average consumer that they are trying to promote its DD capabilities, does it?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SportCarGroup:
    But if know that I should take my kid to somewhere I will take the Range Rover, will drive relaxed and with maximum comfort. Kill me but using GT3 as a daily driver is the same as taking Aventador/Veyron to supermarket shopping.

     


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    We clearly have a different mentality here. I usually drive the same all the time, I am just more careful with kids in my car but I do not change my driving behavior, this is why my son loves driving with me and my daughter doesn't (she gets car sick... Smiley). This is also the reason I don't have a Range Rover...but a Cayenne GTS. Smiley (just kidding)


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:
    Adam2S:

    I dont get it - why cant the GT3 have an option for 4 seats, BOSE, no wing or any other option that can be found on other 991 models?  Why does offering these as an option damage or dilute the GT3 in anyway as long as the base car is setup to be the ultimate drivers feedback track/road hybrid?

    At the end of the day these should be just options - if you want to spec you car with clubsport and no luxuries with an extreem bias for track then good on you, thats all good. But if another person wants to spec his with 4 seats, BOSE and no wing then what harm does it do to those who dont want that setup?

    Used buyers can then just buy the one thats setup for their preference...  I fail to see why options damage the purity of GT3 as long as the basics of the car are "right".

    Your car already exists champ! Its called a Carrera S. It offers everything you require and if you like, for a small fee, I'm sure they'll even stick a GT3 badge on the back... Why rape a track focused GT3 to create a boulevard cruiser? Think about it...

    Its like saying I want an Aventador but would prefer Galardo doors on it as I don't like scissor type doors on it... wtf?

     Nope it isnt - a Carrera S with X51, PASM -20mm, Aero even with a GT3 sticker on the back is not a GT3, but I think you know that!  The thing about the GT3 is all the special bits that make the car far more fun to drive than any normal Carrera with any options you care to put on. Yes you can get close, but the GT3 retains its unique approach to delivering driver feedback and feel - that is what appeals to me most.

    I think you are just being elitist and wanting the GT3 to meet your very specific needs and nobody elses, because if I dont happen to want to do exactly the same in a GT3 as you do then I must be using it for false purposes.  I respect your right to want to turn your GT3 into a hardcore track car, but still fail to see why my desire to have a car that is great fun to drive everyday (far more fun than any other carrera could be) but have no interest in taking it on a track is invalid, or an offence to your needs?

    Surely the wider the appeal of a car the more successful it will be, and therefore the more likely Porsche are to invest in taking it to the next level the next time around.  Im not arguing to change the core of what a GT3 is, I just see no reason why several options that clearly could be offered to a GT3 arnt - its just marketing mumbo jumbo to pander for the special needs of the elitist few.  The only logic I can see is that Porsche have calculated that they will loose more hardcore customers by offering these things than they would gain from everyday driver customers by doing so.

    Can I ask you - if you had a new 991 GT3 deposit down, and just before you go spec-final Porsche add in new options to have 4 seats, or BOSE or wing delete - would you actually cancel your order, or simply ignore the new options (probably post on here complaining), proceed with your order as is and get on with enjoying exactly the same car as you were about to buy before?Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    The 2010 GT3RS they competed was a street car and they raced it against all sorts of race cars in a 24 hour enduro... That doesn't suggest to the average consumer that they are trying to promote its DD capabilities, does it?

    I thought the Frikadelli team did 6th place in a GT3 R? Smiley I'm not aware of any GT3 RS street car they (Porsche) raced but I'm not such a track buff anymore, so maybe I missed something. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    artur777:

    Kreso F1.

    pls comment what does mean "next 991 turbo s will be mind-blowing"

    give me pls some hints. Because I have a tough choice - to buy new GT3 or wait for new Turbo S...

    your hints may help a lot - thanks

    Don't even go there. You can't compare both.

    The new 991 Turbo (let alone the S) will be an acceleration monster with amazing traction. So if you are looking to win red light races, this is it, there shouldn't be anything better on the market when it will come out. Same goes to Autobahn performance, the 0-200 kph time should be around 10 seconds (for the regular Turbo).

    If driving "as if you sit in a race car" is more of your style, then the GT3 is the right model. It is also the perfect track fun car because of the sportier chassis setup and lower weight. The GT3 has a more direct steering, the PDK is less comfortable but faster and the comfort is limited due to the harsher ride and of course the louder exhaust/engine note. People would say that the GT3 is more involving, it ticks your senses more than the Turbo but of course a skilled driver could be faster in the Turbo.

    I really don't think you can compare both, two different toys.

    I belive Christian write up gives you pretty nice idea about 991 Turbo.

    As he wrote this are two different sportscars. Also, there is a difference in price. Fully equiped 991 GT3 is about 155K € and 991 Turbo will be in 175K € range with some options.

    Artur, if you can get both. I am not kidding here at all. they are different enough to complement each other nicelly.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Bottom line:

    The Porsche Marketing Machine will spew any lie and cannot and should not ever be trusted. RC is adamant to make that point. Prospects and buyers are just plain stupid to believe or be strongly influenced by the marketing videos, materials verbiage and the image that is cultivated and portrayed. As RC says, the street car must not be tracked, and is only for Cars n Coffee events. Porsche is a propaganda machine first and a car company second. That was driven home quite quickly as I noted all the 996.xx prefix parts in my '10 and '11 cars. When one achieves this moment of clarity, it is quite painful because you realize just how badly you got sexual intercoursed by The Porsche Marketing Machine.

    The new GT3 is a great sporty cruiser, it is not intended for track use and will immediately lose its warranty after such use, and if you do track it the cost of the consumables will make a grown man cry ($900 ea rear tires for example). Those of us who are serious tracking enthusiasts (not "racers", please) have many very fine choices for our track use. I know I made my choices.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    Porker:
    But the fact of the matter is, Porsche raced a 'streetcar' in the Nürburgring 24hrs, exactly to promote its track-credentials. For you to then state that people shouldn't race their GT3's because they're essentially streetcars is contradicting exactly what Porsche was trying to promote. Smiley

    The GT3 R is clearly labeled a race car by Porsche, I do not see any street car here. This is no street car, look at the specs. The only thing close to their street car is maybe the engine but the new engine will be used for racing too, so we need to wait and see how it will work out for Porsche.

    Marketing...or do you really think drinking Red Bull lets you fly? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

    Porsche AG entered a street legal RS in 2010, that's what 911rox was referring to.

    http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/251863/chris_harris_at_the_ring_24_hours.html


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Adam2S:
    911rox:
    Adam2S:

    I dont get it - why cant the GT3 have an option for 4 seats, BOSE, no wing or any other option that can be found on other 991 models?  Why does offering these as an option damage or dilute the GT3 in anyway as long as the base car is setup to be the ultimate drivers feedback track/road hybrid?

    At the end of the day these should be just options - if you want to spec you car with clubsport and no luxuries with an extreem bias for track then good on you, thats all good. But if another person wants to spec his with 4 seats, BOSE and no wing then what harm does it do to those who dont want that setup?

    Used buyers can then just buy the one thats setup for their preference...  I fail to see why options damage the purity of GT3 as long as the basics of the car are "right".

    Your car already exists champ! Its called a Carrera S. It offers everything you require and if you like, for a small fee, I'm sure they'll even stick a GT3 badge on the back... Why rape a track focused GT3 to create a boulevard cruiser? Think about it...

    Its like saying I want an Aventador but would prefer Galardo doors on it as I don't like scissor type doors on it... wtf?

     Nope it isnt - a Carrera S with X51, PASM -20mm, Aero even with a GT3 sticker on the back is not a GT3, but I think you know that!  The thing about the GT3 is all the special bits that make the car far more fun to drive than any normal Carrera with any options you care to put on. Yes you can get close, but the GT3 retains its unique approach to delivering driver feedback and feel - that is what appeals to me most.

    I think you are just being elitist and wanting the GT3 to meet your very specific needs and nobody elses, because if I dont happen to want to do exactly the same in a GT3 as you do then I must be using it for false purposes.  I respect your right to want to turn your GT3 into a hardcore track car, but still fail to see why my desire to have a car that is great fun to drive everyday (far more fun than any other carrera could be) but have no interest in taking it on a track is invalid, or an offence to your needs?

    Surely the wider the appeal of a car the more successful it will be, and therefore the more likely Porsche are to invest in taking it to the next level the next time around.  Im not arguing to change the core of what a GT3 is, I just see no reason why several options that clearly could be offered to a GT3 arnt - its just marketing mumbo jumbo to pander for the special needs of the elitist few.  The only logic I can see is that Porsche have calculated that they will loose more hardcore customers by offering these things than they would gain from everyday driver customers by doing so.

    Can I ask you - if you had a new 991 GT3 deposit down, and just before you go spec-final Porsche add in new options to have 4 seats, or BOSE or wing delete - would you actually cancel your order, or simply ignore the new options (probably post on here complaining), proceed with your order as is and get on with enjoying exactly the same car as you were about to buy before?Smiley

    Adam, I'm not trying to be elitist, I'm trying to be realistic... I have no issue with the GT3 appealing to a wider audience. In fact, I applaude the introduction of PDK but disagree that it should be the only box in a car that has been manual only for over a decade, particularly when the regular Carrera range has the option of either or...

    If you've been in a GT3, you'll know its about the sound of the motor and sensations the car creates. A bose system is wasted money, you won't hear it. Wing delete is not realistic because it is part of an overall suspension/ aero set up. Remove 150kgs of downforce at the back and the car is unstable... 4 seats I'm neither hear nor there on although owning one, rear seats are a waste of time unless you have under 5 year old children as there is just no leg room, especially if the front occupants are tall.

    Would I change my order or refuse to buy the car if Porsche made those options available, NO... But the reality is that you have motorsport engineers putting together a car for the specific purpose and wings can't be removed nor will you be able to enjoy your awesome sound system... You'll have an amazing engine sound and poise on the road to enjoy instead!Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    savvy:

    Bottom line:

    The Porsche Marketing Machine will spew any lie and cannot and should not ever be trusted. RC is adamant to make that point. Prospects and buyers are just plain stupid to believe or be strongly influenced by the marketing videos, materials verbiage and the image that is cultivated and portrayed. As RC says, the street car must not be tracked, and is only for Cars n Coffee events. Porsche is a propaganda machine first and a car company second. That was driven home quite quickly as I noted all the 996.xx prefix parts in my '10 and '11 cars. When one achieves this moment of clarity, it is quite painful because you realize just how badly you got sexual intercoursed by The Porsche Marketing Machine.

    The new GT3 is a great sporty cruiser, it is not intended for track use and will immediately lose its warranty after such use, and if you do track it the cost of the consumables will make a grown man cry ($900 ea rear tires for example). Those of us who are serious tracking enthusiasts (not "racers", please) have many very fine choices for our track use. I know I made my choices.

     

    Well...I wouldn't call them liars, this is how marketing works and may I ask a stupid question: Has it ever been much different?! This is valid for all car manufacturers in my opinion.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    911rox:

    A dealer doesn't decide to time out hubs every 7000km because they don't want to hurt their bottom line by re-engineering and recalling all CL cars once and for all. PAG decided that! The dealership completely disagrees with Porsche's stance on this issue but as you well know, they aren't in a position to make decisions...

    Again...the car isn't made for racing, so if you drive your car on the street or do some (50-60 certainly don't qualify) laps on the track, there is no issue. The Porsche dealership disagrees with Porsche stance because they know they aren't in any position to do anything against it but trust me, if the dealer would be honest, he would tell it right into your face what he thinks: Next time, get a race car. Smiley Expensive hobby...this is why I gave up track racing a long time ago, just doing the occasional 5-10 laps (short tracks at around 3-4 km length) here and then if the occasion occurs at some event but thats it.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

    But the new 991 GT3 engine will be used in racing..so where is the problem? Its clear that racing at 80% for 50-60 laps will wear the parts like suspension, brakes, tires, drivshafts etc a lot..but it shouldnt break.

    I know someone with a 997 GT2 CS..car has 80,000Km and has done half of that on track...and seriously tracked..really he "misused" the car..to see this was even shocking for me. The car has multiple entries in range 6..and its still running..its like a "German Panzer".


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    yes its valid for all manufacturers...but it doesnt mean we should appraise it ..


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    artur777:

    Kreso F1.

    pls comment what does mean "next 991 turbo s will be mind-blowing"

    give me pls some hints. Because I have a tough choice - to buy new GT3 or wait for new Turbo S...

    your hints may help a lot - thanks

    When will the Turbo be presanted, Frankfurt IAA or before?

    Tks Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Porker:
     

    Porsche AG entered a street legal RS in 2010, that's what 911rox was referring to.

    http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/251863/chris_harris_at_the_ring_24_hours.html

    First, this was a great marketing stunt for Porsche, no doubt about it. Smiley Second, do you really know what has happened to this car after the race (I mean Porsche claims that all parts were OK but what parts needed to be exchanged to make it "safe" again for street driving?). Maybe they were lucky, maybe the car was in a very good shape before the race, you never know.

    Whoever is involved in serious motorsports, not just for fun, knows how much work is involved and how often there is part failure or other technical issues. Marketing is one thing but... Smiley

    Don't expect wonders from street cars.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    Well...I wouldn't call them liars, this is how marketing works and may I ask a stupid question: Has it ever been much different?! This is valid for all car manufacturers in my opinion.

     

    It is different, right now. There is a company with honesty and integrity in their product representation. And along with their car fitting my exact needs, is why I sold my Porsches and bought one. BAC Mono. Amazing people with an amazing product. There is no need to lie when the product is intrinsically honest in engineering and execution.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    GTlover:

    yes its valid for all manufacturers...but it doesnt mean we should appraise it ..

    I never said this but this is how it works. Porsche is not that small manufacturer anymore and don't forget who (or what car) actually pays the bills for the GT3 development: The Cayenne. Smiley 
    This is how it is...nothing we can change. Unless we would pay 30-40k more for a GT3, then everything is possible. Are you ready for that? I doubt it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KresoF1:

    Christian,

    This is the strange world, isn't itSmiley WhySmiley

    Because we have here two poles, no more, no less...

    Very interesting thing is that both poles are actually - sides(or negative):

    1. Group-die hard manual, Mezger fans

      -they complain that new GT3 is poser car, no more manual, no more Mezger, new GT3 is a softy(what a stupid remark indeed, nobody drove new GT3 yet-but it is a softy??) etc.

    2. Group-those who actually wanted 475ps new GT3 engine in 991 Carrera(something like Carrera RS maybe)

     -they wanted 4 seater, no spoilers at all, deleted rear GT3 badge, Burmester sound system(for God sake why? I am huge audiophile-own new Magico speakers, BUT good soundsystem is for home-NOT for true sportscar a la GT3. IMHO.), etc.

     

    See the problemSmiley

    I think that new GT3 is awsome sportscar. To repeat again AWSOME. For the first time I am thinking very hard indeed about buying new GT3. So, Porsche did great job, at least IMO. New 991 Turbo will be awsome as well. As fast on the Ring as new GT3(both below 7.30min and do not be supriesed at all IF HvS achieve below 7.30min in new GT3) and with all goodies.

    New GT3 is a true GT3 in its core. Some still have doubts? Well, time will tell that I was right from the start.

    Hi Kreso,

    Thanks..I think for Porsche it will be much easier to deal with the group 1..- you know I´m in this group.,.,but again..if there is a new race proven engine - no problem, if there as option of Pdk or manual..no problem for me either...so in the end its not so difficult. Group 2 is a group that will never be happy and change their opnion every day,.,.

    You talked about HvS..well - if he gets under 7:30 ..hugh..it would be so remarkable..but I cant believe it...there are only two non Porsches tested by him that got under 7:30 I think..aventador..and Mclaren..both have considerably more HP..the Lambo is also 200Kg more..OK..but with 475HP..it wont be enough. For me that doesnt matter, there ony two things the 991 GT3 has to do -

    1) beat the 458

    2) beat the Nissan GTr

    If it cant do that ..then it should go home..but Im 99% confident it can do it..but taking the challenge with the MP4 and the aventador..thats too much. We are not marketing guys here..

    I hope nobody works here in marketing..this thread has already taken down their proffesion a lot..:(


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    Porker:
     

    Porsche AG entered a street legal RS in 2010, that's what 911rox was referring to.

    http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/251863/chris_harris_at_the_ring_24_hours.html

    First, this was a great marketing stunt for Porsche, no doubt about it. Smiley Second, do you really know what has happened to this car after the race (I mean Porsche claims that all parts were OK but what parts needed to be exchanged to make it "safe" again for street driving?). Maybe they were lucky, maybe the car was in a very good shape before the race, you never know.

    Whoever is involved in serious motorsports, not just for fun, knows how much work is involved and how often there is part failure or other technical issues. Marketing is one thing but... Smiley

    Don't expect wonders from street cars.

    I absolutely agree, it was a fantastic stunt from Porsche, with a great result as well. I have no idea what had to be changed to the car after the race, I know it's now proudly presented in the Porsche AG Museum.

    I have the impression the centrelocks seem different than the regular ones judging from the pics, maybe they took their precautions there?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    Porker:
     

    Porsche AG entered a street legal RS in 2010, that's what 911rox was referring to.

    http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/251863/chris_harris_at_the_ring_24_hours.html

    First, this was a great marketing stunt for Porsche, no doubt about it. Smiley Second, do you really know what has happened to this car after the race (I mean Porsche claims that all parts were OK but what parts needed to be exchanged to make it "safe" again for street driving?). Maybe they were lucky, maybe the car was in a very good shape before the race, you never know.

    Whoever is involved in serious motorsports, not just for fun, knows how much work is involved and how often there is part failure or other technical issues. Marketing is one thing but... Smiley

    Don't expect wonders from street cars.

     

    The point is that you have spent the last three pages dismissing the CL issue Porsche cleverly disguise through factually challenged media releases as being due to customers using cars (marketed as track weapons as clearly demonstrated in the NBR 24) on track. No customer could inflict one tenth the wear and tear those three professional drivers did on that car...

    Don't be so quick to dismiss Porsche's part in this CL saga! The issue is completely of their doing and the same could happen with any of the new technologies being introduced with their latest cars. Going back many posts ago, you stated that Porsche would not do anything to compromise their reputation nor the safety of their customers. I hope you can now see how this is FAR from true... They are just great at shielding those not directly affected by the situation from the reality of their extremely poor handling of a serious situation...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    ...Chris Harris was one of the guys taking a GT3RS form Weissach to the NBR - Porsche also covered it in one of the Christophorus issues shortly after the race...

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    savvy:
    RC:

    Well...I wouldn't call them liars, this is how marketing works and may I ask a stupid question: Has it ever been much different?! This is valid for all car manufacturers in my opinion.

     

    It is different, right now. There is a company with honesty and integrity in their product representation. And along with their car fitting my exact needs, is why I sold my Porsches and bought one. BAC Mono. Amazing people with an amazing product. There is no need to lie when the product is intrinsically honest in engineering and execution.

    Are you serious? You compare a BAC Mono to a GT3? I doubt you are going to be faster on the Nordschleife in your Mono than in the new GT3 and I can still listen to music in the GT3, use a cup holder Smiley and put the A/C on when it gets too hot. I am sorry but the BAC Mono, which still has to prove itself vs. the KTM X-Bow, Ariel Atom, etc., is more of a track toy, not a sports car. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    Adam, I'm not trying to be elitist, I'm trying to be realistic... I have no issue with the GT3 appealing to a wider audience. In fact, I applaude the introduction of PDK but disagree that it should be the only box in a car that has been manual only for over a decade, particularly when the regular Carrera range has the option of either or...

    If you've been in a GT3, you'll know its about the sound of the motor and sensations the car creates. A bose system is wasted money, you won't hear it. Wing delete is not realistic because it is part of an overall suspension/ aero set up. Remove 150kgs of downforce at the back and the car is unstable... 4 seats I'm neither hear nor there on although owning one, rear seats are a waste of time unless you have under 5 year old children as there is just no leg room, especially if the front occupants are tall.

    Would I change my order or refuse to buy the car if Porsche made those options available, NO... But the reality is that you have motorsport engineers putting together a car for the specific purpose and wings can't be removed nor will you be able to enjoy your awesome sound system... You'll have an amazing engine sound and poise on the road to enjoy instead!Smiley

    OK I think you have a very fair point about wing delete - it may well be dangerous and on that basis I would definately understand and support not offering it as an option.  4 seats, well personally I quite like the extra luggage space you get in the back with no seats so I would stay with just 2, but it would be nice to know there was an option to add them back in for the next customer and that the option would widen resale potential.  But as for BOSE / burmister, well I dont agree.  I currently drive an Aston V12 Vantage with the fuse pulled so that the exhaust valves are fully open all the time.  Trust me when I say it is not a quiet car by any means, but it has a top end stereo fitted and there is a time and a place when I can enjoy what that offers, just as there are times and places when I drop the windows, turn off the stereo and enjoy the "uncorked" V12 in full chatter!

    And yes I have driven a 997.1 GT3 and a 997.1 GT3RS. Maybe the GT3RS was a little too noisy and full of vibration to benefit from a good stereo, but the GT3 wasnt - in fact I would say it was probably a little quieter than my V12V is.  I love sounds, yes the sound of a great GT3 engine is something special to behold, but thats not to say when pootling through traffic on everyday driving that I dont want to enjoy some serious music too.

    Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Porker:
    RC:
    Porker:
     

    Porsche AG entered a street legal RS in 2010, that's what 911rox was referring to.

    http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/251863/chris_harris_at_the_ring_24_hours.html

    First, this was a great marketing stunt for Porsche, no doubt about it. Smiley Second, do you really know what has happened to this car after the race (I mean Porsche claims that all parts were OK but what parts needed to be exchanged to make it "safe" again for street driving?). Maybe they were lucky, maybe the car was in a very good shape before the race, you never know.

    Whoever is involved in serious motorsports, not just for fun, knows how much work is involved and how often there is part failure or other technical issues. Marketing is one thing but... Smiley

    Don't expect wonders from street cars.

    I absolutely agree, it was a fantastic stunt from Porsche, with a great result as well. I have no idea what had to be changed to the car after the race, I know it's now proudly presented in the Porsche AG Museum.

    I have the impression the centrelocks seem different than the regular ones judging from the pics, maybe they took their precautions there?

    No Porker, they broke every rule they preach to us... No greasing procedure, no back/forth tightening procedure as per their requirements, aftermarket wheels were used, the rattled them off/on with guns and didn't use the dust caps... They were OEM fitment...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    In 2010, they weren't aware of that.   


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    GTlover:

    yes its valid for all manufacturers...but it doesnt mean we should appraise it ..

    I never said this but this is how it works. Porsche is not that small manufacturer anymore and don't forget who (or what car) actually pays the bills for the GT3 development: The Cayenne. Smiley 
    This is how it is...nothing we can change. Unless we would pay 30-40k more for a GT3, then everything is possible. Are you ready for that? I doubt it.

    I know that the Cayenne and Panamera are Porsches main foothold. I guess you know like me that in comparison to Cayenne and Panamera, the 911 is almost a dying breed. Sales of Panameras and Cayennes have overtaken 911 sales from 0 to the situation now in just less then 15 years. I know that very well.

    Would I be ready to pay 30K more - simple answer: YES- If the package is the correct on. Im still hoping there will be a 960 version (if its not really exceeding roughyl 200K)..for the "die hard fans"..othwerwise my Porsche future looks like this. Keep what I have now..and add a boxster or caymen. If the 991 GT3 RS neither 960 will be what Im looking for, I´ll buy a second hand GT3 CUP..but it would be a pitty for Porsche.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    In 2010, they were't aware of that.   

    They know it in 2013 and because they are too arrogant to concede they were wrong, they will likely inflict the same grief on the next lot of GT3 owners. I would be asking for a detailed maintenance plan relating to centrelocks before signing the dotted line on a 991 gt3 unless you've got money to burnnnnnnn! Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

    But the new 991 GT3 engine will be used in racing..so where is the problem?

    Really?  Don't hold your breath.


     
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